The industry said, you're out of your mind. You're a dead man walking. You're the biggest band in the world right now. You can't fire your big shot manager. Give me a good reason why. The word on the street was, this is career suicide. But the band trusted me, and we did it. I did it. One of the most famous names in.

Rocket that sold over 130 million albums. Please welcome Jon Bon Jovi.

Bon Jovi.

Welcome, Bon Jovi. You brought in a mediator, a therapist, a coach, someone to kind of like, say hey, tell everyone how you feel.

Oh, it wasn't easy. Nobody was receptive to it. I was receptive to it. The guys fought it, and then after a couple of sessions of it, we committed to it. Wow. I can absolutely, positively guarantee you you will never see me given 50%. That's out of the question. Don't think for a moment that Richie and David and Tico didn't give everything they had. They gave everything they had, too. Everyone's always looking over the shoulder, and they've got that. Who's the bigger guy in the room? I gave that up so long ago. I give a about it, and I have very few regrets in my career. One of my few regrets.

Welcome back, everyone, to the school of greatness. Very excited about our guests. We have the legendary Jon Bon Jovi in the house. Good to see you, sir.

Thank you, brother.

Thank you so much for being here. My fellow pisces. Yeah, arena football lovers and so many other things. You have this incredible docu series that's out right now as people are watching this, and there was so much about it that I didn't realize about you as a human being and your heart and your vision. I think everyone sees the accolades, the success, the platinum records that you've sold, and the four decade career of hit after hit. But what they really get to watch when they watch this series is your incredible vision for making all this happen and manifesting this into your life and building and creating it for a decade after decade and your beautiful heart. So I want to acknowledge you for your heart, because I feel like that love and that passion is what allowed this to come to fruition, this life you've created and the impact that you've had with your music around the world. My fiance, she's mexican, and I told her I was having you on today, and she was almost in tears because she said when she was a teenager, she bought a CD of yours, and it was one of the first music that she heard where she started to learn English.

Oh, was because of your music.

Right.

So you make impact on so many people's lives in so many different ways.

That you're not even aware of.

So I want to acknowledge you for that, John. And there was a moment in, I can't remember if it was episode one or two, because I got to watch the. The whole thing where you talk about success and greatness. I don't know if you remember this, but you mention about success and you mentioned greatness in almost the same sentence, and you give a definition, kind of what they both are for you. Since this is the school of greatness, I would love for you to talk about what the difference is between success.

And greatness for you. Well, I honestly can't remember the instance in the film, especially because it's been filmed over the last couple of years. But I guess my reaction to it would be this. Anyone can have success. You can write a jingle that becomes a hit song and for five minutes, that's called success. And it's fleeting. Or you can strive for greatness, which means you got to do it again and again and again and again and again and again. And you have to work hard because it just doesn't happen. You know, greatness is something to strive for, and it is given to nobody, even the most gifted of musician or athlete or business leader has to work at it in order to, you know, strive to achieve greatness. That's my opinion.

Yeah. Do you feel like. When did you feel like you were able to reach greatness in your musical career?

I don't know that I ever felt that way, really. I think that that's sort of that chip on your shoulder that keeps you going. I do think that I've gotten quite good at it. I think that given the opportunity, physically, I can do it with the best of them at this point. But I think with every song. With every song, let alone every album, it's, can I do it again? Can I do it again? Can I do it again? How can I do it better? I don't think you ever think you've achieved greatness. It's just striving.

Did you ever feel like when. I think it was the third album, you guys had that when, like, I don't know, 14 times platinum or whatever it did, it was, like, all over the world.

Newest selling records ever. Yeah. Slippery when wet. Yeah.

Was that the biggest up ever of all time, or.

No, no, no. I mean, for us it was. But it was. It was thriller. It was like a virgin. It was born in the USA. It was. It was one of those. It was huge.

It was massive and it was everywhere. When you have that big of a hit at that young age, I think you were like 24, 25 or something around there.

How do you.

And it surpasses so many other records or accomplishments of almost every other artist. How do you come with the mind of, this isn't my best work, and I can keep reaching this type of success, or do you think maybe my best work is behind me?

No.

At 25?

No, no, no, no. Absolutely not. If anything, I didn't. My only regret, and I have very few regrets in my career. One of my few regrets is that I didn't take a little more time just to enjoy it because you could have shoulda taken the time to really enjoy it. I think that part of the journey of life is that in your twenties, when you've got a. That chip on your shoulder and there's. There's all kinds of new surprises around every bend, you don't really sure how to navigate this journey. You look to mentors and in some form or another to sort of guide you and they do the best they can, but it doesn't mean that they had the answers either. Anyhow, you're on this journey and all we could think of, at least all I could think of was, I got to do this again. I got to make sure that nobody thinks that was a fluke, that we can, we can do this again, we can do it again after that. So it was nose to the grind and a year after the Slippery tour concluded and there was 240 shows and massive success for the band, we were back on the road with the album New Jersey, which had five more top ten singles and another 200 and 4250 shows.

One year later, just back to back. Just went right back in the ring.

You know, there's one part of the docu series where the band, I think you guys are together for, I don't know, five years in a row. It seems like with very little time off and there's this beautiful journey that you guys created, this incredible family and this incredible relationships and brotherhood and team mentality, but then too much of a good thing can turn into a bad thing is kind of what you guys talk about in this series. How did you not allow too much tension to actually break this band apart after so many years of success when there was just more frustration and resentment and egos? How did you keep it together emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically, when everyone's got more money than they can think of now, when everyone's got more fame and success, and their egos are at an all time high. How did you keep it together?

Well, everyone has their own unique perspective, and everyone's the hero of their own show, right? So I'm sure anyone in the band or the organization will have told you their point of view, and it made different from mine. But having been the leader, namesake, whatever you want to call me, I'd always had a certain vision and asked others to follow their opinions, and their input was very welcomed. But obviously, somebody had to be the quarterback. And so I treated this like a team, and I was the quarterback, but I knew I couldn't play without a receiver in the line. Okay, so I wasn't ego driven, but I had to have a plan. Stick to the plan and sink or swim, make the decision. So when I did see that the burnout was happening after those two back to back records, and this was our first foray into that kind of territory, because it has happened to me other times in my career. In this instance, there was a moment in time where I would, in retrospect, blame agents, managers, lawyers, because they were supposed to be the mentors that said, we believe in you. Take your time, get it right.

And they allowed us to keep going to the point of burnout. What I wouldn't allow was it to fall apart, because I knew better than to think, wait a minute, nobody physically harmed each other. Nobody stole money, nobody sold a girlfriend, nobody was dead. Nobody was, you know, car crashed. Like, this was burnout. So you go back to team, you go back to, you know, what is it that got us here collectively, let everybody go out and gather their thoughts, get new information, bring it back to the fold, which in turn, could make us stronger. And I really, by that point, went out on a limb, because at that point, I'd fired the managers, agents, and lawyers and said to the guys, I've got this vision. I believe it still works. And not only do I need you guys to come along, but I'm doing it without the rest of the apparatus now. And they put their faith in that.

There's three things that I've gotten to learn about you through this series that's really inspired me, that I feel like you innovated and you led the way with, in terms of anyone that I'm aware of in the music industry at this high of a level, and I'm gonna share these three things. One is during that time where I guess the band was kind of, in a lot of friction, at least from the story of the documentary you brought in a mediator, a therapist, a coach, someone to kind of like, say, hey, tell everyone how you feel. Let's open up all of the emotions, the frustrations, the pains, the joys, and share it all. And this was what, 30, 2030 years ago or something? 30 years ago when this wasn't a popular thing. 35 years ago, that was like, looked down upon 30 years ago. But you said, I'm gonna have the courage to say, we need to bring a coach, an expert, a mediator, a therapist to come in and let everyone express themselves. Would you say that really helped?

Oh, yeah.

Bringing people back together? Oh, yeah.

And boy, was it resistance, really? Oh, yeah. You know, I'd heard about these therapies, especially in alcoholism and mental illness, you know, and where you go to rehab or, you know, and you're dealing with issues. But like I said, we didn't have those issues. We had naivete and youth and this rocketship to success that was confusing because we went being from being the children of our parents to the parents of our parents and the parents of. We were now these CEO's, you know, we were now these decision makers. We were now these money makers. We were. We were. We were the gravy trained. You know, life changed for everybody in the organization.

In your twenties?

In my twenties. And that's. That's me being a. I don't know, I don't want to say a visionary, but a different thinker. I thought differently. I just always thought differently. The way I got a record deal, nobody gets a record deal. The way I got a record deal. I went knocked on a dj's booth, who, right now, we think that there's millions of people are going to watch this interview, which is nothing but ego, but in truth, it just could be you and I, Louis, and nobody might ever, may ever see this or hear this, right? And we don't know. The loneliest man in the music business was a DJ. Talking to no one, preaching the gospel of music. And I said, that man loves music more than anyone I know. We're gonna go knock on his window and play him a song. It was the same kind of visions I've had throughout the process here where I said, self management, the industry said, you're out of your mind. You're dead man walking. You're the biggest band in the world right now. You can't fire. You're a big shop manager. I said, why? I wasn't being egomaniacal.

I said, why? Tell him. Give me a good reason why. There wasn't a good reason why. And from 1991 to 2016. It's a lot of commission checks. I didn't pay anything, you know, but the band trusted me, and we did it. I did it. I built Bon Jovi Manning.

That's the second thing that I was gonna talk about.

The therapist, Louis Lou Cox, he come in and he had nothing to win or lose. He wasn't on anyone's salaries. He wasn't on the payroll. He wasn't even in the music business. Wow.

What was the one thing that he taught you through that experience about mediation, therapy, communication, that every.

Well, little silly elevator bumper stickers, like, you know, everyone's the star of their own show. It's five different opinions in this story. It's five different points of view, but it was about listening in order to learn. It was about, you know, giving the floor to others when necessary. It was about being a shoulder to lean on when somebody, you know, needed that shoulder to lean on, there was a lot of that that. There was no, it was just. It was all based in truths. It was looking into someone's eye and saying, I love you, and meaning it. Wow. You know, understanding what the words meant, not just, oh, we're performing on this stage together. Hey, dude, I was never a dude. We weren't dude. I wasn't interested in that. I was interested in cutting to a deeper place. You know, our music got lumped into a genre of music because of when we came up and the kind of stuff, you know, that I was 21 and 25. I look like every kid in the mall. That's the way the kids looked in the mall. Yeah.

Yeah.

So we were thrust into that, but that's not who I was. It was just. We were put into that.

But you. I mean, again, this is the thing that surprises me. You're in. This is what? The late eighties, early nineties, right.

Mid eighties. Mid eighties. 87. 86.

But when the therapy sessions.

Oh, 90. Yeah, 90, 91.

Yeah, 90, 91.

Yeah.

It's what, five to seven of you guys in a room together?

Yeah.

And you're talking about love and you're talking about your emotions, and you're talking, I love you. And you're looking at each other's eyes and you're being vulnerable.

When I grew up in the eighties.

And nineties, you weren't allowed to do that stuff. So I'm saying you innovated this ability to, like, how. How are all of you able to be so receptive, to connect openly, lovingly, vulnerably?

It wasn't easy. Nobody was receptive to it. I was receptive to it. The guys fought it, and then after a couple of sessions of it, they, you know, had their private time with Lou, and then they would come back into group, and then, you know, and we committed to it. Wow. We committed to it.

How many sessions you guys all do?

I don't know. Together in an idiot. Let's just put it this way. Over the course of time, that started in 90, and I was talking to Lou, you know, a year ago. Amazing. So we still, you know, I would still touch base with that.

That's incredible.

Over time. Yeah, we needed him anytime.

How important was it for you to tap into your relationship skills and your emotional skills, you know, over your singing and songwriting skills in order to be successful as a group and as a band?

I just looked at it like a family is always going to have its issues. A team is always going to have their issues. But having been a sports fan, I could see the inner workings of a team and think, I could see that the ego is prohibiting them from winning championships and that a family can't get away from each other because of blood. But they could have nothing more than a common last name. So there had to be a way to take the strength of a name and the strength of a team and take the best of those things and maximize them. So if it's based in truth, you can get over ego. Wow. It worked for me.

That's incredible. And it sounds like if you didn't allow. If everyone didn't join in that process, you guys want to be where you are.

Well, if somebody could have quit easily, yeah, it sure would have been easier way for somebody to quit. But nobody ever quit the ban at till Richie, you know, in 2013. But that's much later. Right. But no, no, everybody was committed to.

That's incredible, man. That's cool. So I love, you know, one of three things that I really think you innovated. The second thing, you mentioned it. 1990. You're 29. You're 30 years old, and you say, okay, everyone in the music industry has a manager or has agents and all these different things. I'm gonna do it differently.

Yeah.

You hear about that now of, like, independent artists and starting their own thing and launching their music through the Internet. But in 1990, like, that never happened. So you really innovated and led this way for artists 30 years before they started doing it. What was the biggest challenge you had to overcome in starting your own management company? Navigating the landscape of ticketing and venues and commissions.

What happened was we let go of the old age and got a new one. Okay. So it wasn't that I didn't have when we got a different one. Right. Um, the manager, um, God bless him, you know, we're still friendly. Um, but he said it was about him, and we went, no, it's definitely not about you. And then you have to think, like, what does he bring that is so unique? Uh huh. And granted, in that first chapter of my career, I learned a lot, and it was great. But when it was time to move on, I was glad that it was time to move on. I never see, and the word on the street was, this is career suicide. But I had an incredible representative, and I use that word endearingly. It was way more than a lawyer. He was the godfather to my daughter. He was, yeah. My father and my best friend and my brother all rolled into one. He never, ever, you know, took advantage of me. He represented. He taught me everything I know about business. Wow. And he's passed. He had frontal lobe dementia. He's passed about seven, eight, nine years ago.

Now there's a huge black hole in my life because he's not in it any longer. But he's what made me learn everything that I know now, and in turn, also made me realize we didn't need all that glitz and glamor. You know, we had an amazing right hand in a guy named Paul Corzelius who was doing the day to day in the office. Jerry was doing all the paperwork, and I was making all the decisions. We could do this, and we did it in a big way. We had the biggest tour in the world three times. And in that period, six number one albums. I had, you know, six number ones, and it's, like.

Crushing it.

Yeah.

Incredible. But how did you have the courage to do that when no one else had done?

I'd met with a half a dozen managers, I remember at the time, or did, you know, like, meeting with managers again and going through that process and just not clicking with any of them. There was none of them that moved me, and I needed somebody that was gonna dedicate their life to this, the way that we dedicated our lives to it. And I wasn't getting that. Wow. So I just. Why? Why do it ourselves? Wow.

It's beautiful. The third thing that I feel like you've really innovated in this industry of, you know, music and rockstar and fame and all these different things is you got married, you know, at the peak.

I think you're in your late twenties, right?

28, 29 when you got married to a high school sweetheart.

Yeah.

And for me, I don't know how you're on the road constantly with that much fame, that much success, that much money, and that much options, let's say, and you're able to enter a marriage and have a, what looks like on the outside, a healthy relationship for decades, 35 years. That's incredible. I feel like you've innovated this in a space.

No, I can't take that credit.

Well, I feel like, you know, fewer and far between.

Boswell's married is long. Bruce is married almost very, very few.

How were you able to have a healthy, successful, thriving marriage and relationship while all the other, you know, ego stuff and fame and just travel and that one was easy.

That didn't really genius. We grew together. Wow. We went to high school together. Yeah. So we came through this whole roller coaster ride together. So no matter my highs or my lows, she's seen them. Wow. And that. That was integral. She didn't meet me at the pinnacle of my successes or the, you know, the low points in my career and picked me up out of a gutter somewhere. So we grew up in the same hometown with the same kind of values, same kind of family background, middle class upbringing.

She saw you doing cover band stuff back then.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. In high school. You know what I mean? That one I just was, thank God, fortunate enough to get right the first time, and we held on. We never really had any kind of difficulty, really knock working. It's been 35 years.

What do you think is the key? I'm not sure if anyone asks you about relationship or marriage advice ever, but what would you say are the three keys to having a long term successful relationship? Wow. Thriving at the top of your career as well?

I don't know. I mean, the relationship thing, like I said, is mutual respect. Admiration and mutual respect is, I think, is at the top of this. For me to be a good listener and know it, it's not all about me. It's about we, you know, it's about both of us. It's about all of us. It's about the family dynamic. So, of course, I'm always going to be the, you know, the narcissist, lead singer in the house, but there's no platinum records hanging in my house. You know, I mean, like, we left that long, long, long time ago in our home. So admiration, mutual admiration society, being a good listener, growing together, you know, just finding her in a way that, like, I get excited in the morning when I see her every single day, 35 years later, I get excited every single day.

What's the thing you love about her the most?

That she absolutely knows that she loves me, like, with all of her heart. Wow. You know, I mean, there's just. There's no question. There's no doubt. There's not even a glimmer of doubt. There's not even a hint of a glimmer of doubt that this is it. There is. No, that's it. And.

Wow.

Yeah, I got this one right.

When you're coming off stage in front of 80,000 people, and you're the man, and you're selling out the biggest tour in history back to back, and people are screaming every word and chanting your name, and then you go home and someone's upset at you or they want you to listen to them. How do you get over your ego of being Jon Bon Jovi and saying, I want to be a great partner?

It might take a minute to walk it off. You know, when you're on the. On the road for a long time, especially in those younger years when we would be on the road so long that you could carry the lifestyle home. But I haven't even seen that guy in a long time. Wow. So it's of no interest to me to even see that guy. It really isn't. Boy, I'm really trying to be honest with you because even if it was ten or 15 years ago, when we were just still a little more wild, and I don't mean this in it, like, we're subdued now, but it's just in a little more ego driven way, even that wasn't a big deal. Really? Yeah.

Where did you learn that, though?

Who we are, where we come from, what we did. I was never a big drug guy. I was never the big drinking guy. I was never the big. One thing we learned on this journey, we're doing this interview right now in Los Angeles, California. I had a house out here for years on the beach in Malibu with all the beautiful people. And the first thing after owning that house for four or five years was, we got to sell this house.

Why?

We got to get the hell out of here. This is not conducive to a great relationship and a great life and a great career and a great grounded. Who we are, what we are, where we come from. Wow. And it was the same thing when we went home and wrote slippery when wet. It was like, we are being lumped in with these kind of bands, that it's not our thing. And I was just, like I said, I don't want to be a part of this scene. This is not who we are. It's not who I am. I don't give a. Right. Go back home. Take that picture in the inner sleeve in a driveway, you know, in our cars, you know, with blue jeans and t shirts on, and sell that Malibu house. And you come out here and everyone's always looking over the shoulder and they've got that, who's the bigger guy in the room? Who can I go and work? Who can I get something from? I gave that up so long ago. I give a about it. I am not impressed. You know, I don't give a. It's just that shallow will ruin you.

And I know grown men who still are playing that game. Wow. You know, and it's just sad. Yeah. And shallow.

What do you wish everyone knew about? Money. Fame and success.

Money doesn't make you smart. It just makes you rich.

Does it make you happy?

Does not make you happy. Now, can it pay for the bills so you can get, you know, the doctor and the insurance and those things? It can. It. It solves some problems, but absolutely does not make you happy. And it doesn't make you smart. It just makes you wealthy.

What do you wish people knew about? Fame and accomplishments?

Accomplishments are all fabulous, especially if you worked hard for them. And, you know, you have a. You deserve the opportunity to accept the accolade in and of the moment and enjoy it, and then, you know, then you move on from it. And don't measure who and what you are based on any kind of championship ring. Right.

It's not your identity.

It is not who you are. It's just what you do. And I live by that credo. It's not who I am, it's just what I do. But I've met many a billionaire who. They're not smart because, you know, they're just. They're missing out on the good things in life, you know, on being a part of their community, on touching the lives of their wives and their children, on sleeping on their pillow at night and knowing that they did something good instead of for a buck. Yeah.

And what do you wish people knew about fame?

It's really an interesting question to ask at this juncture, right? It's 2024. And I remember having a conversation with my kids maybe 10, 12, 15 years ago, and I'm telling me about that, the Internet and ways to make money. And I would say, but you gotta write a song to make money. You have to learn how to act. You know, we're not talking about I'm.

Like a sky arts.

I'm saying, you know, referencing the artist, we have to be an athlete and put in the 10,000 hours I've been proven wrong, obviously now. Right. There's a whole world of people making a buck. And that is very confusing for me and my generation. It's very confusing for me and my generation. We were told that we could go to the moon because President Kennedy told us we could, but we had to go to school to learn how to do the science to get to the moon. We didn't just snap our fingers and get lucky on the Internet one day. So it's a very confusing time. But I don't think anything is a substitute for hard work and dedication and commitment. And not every day you're going to win, but every day is an opportunity to, to participate in the process and measure your progress.

Absolutely. Well, you won a lot, though, consistently, which was pretty impressive.

Yeah, it's all good.

You won.

You've more.

You've been winning. Yeah. Championship after championship. And again, we're talking about. Thank you, good night. The Bon Jovi story, which is on Hulu at the time of watching this. And I'm curious about, you know, you put in a lot of reps. Speaking of 10,000 hours, when you were a kid, you were doing cover band stuff in Jersey and there's an amazing scene of, like, Bruce Springsteen coming up on stage while you were singing his song and him singing it with you. And I can only imagine the electricity and the excitement in your body as a 1617 year old seeing someone who is bigger than you on stage, who is singing with you. And you talk about, like, you could almost touch it. You're explaining, like, how you could almost reach out and touch this opportunity and you just wanted to get closer and closer to that by being in the production studios and being on stages and being around these great artists and talent. I'm curious, where did your creativity come from? How did you, and when you ever felt like, blocked creatively or burnt out, how did you get into a creative state?

I was never the great singer, the great guitar player, the great poet. I was the hardest working singer, guitar player and poet. And so that was a big part of how I became me. If I was going to drown, it was going to be of my own doing. So that was integral to the story. Also, what was integral to my personal story was that the drinking age was 18. And it sounds comedic, but it's true because at 16, you could slip into a bar. Every 16 year old thinks he's going to be a pro athlete, a rock and roll star or an astronaut, you know, so you could go in there and say, I'm going to do this, golly gee, you know. And any little spark was enough to think that you could go to the next level and the next level, next level. I was then fortunate enough that by 2021 I did write the song and knock on the DJ's booth and the creative guy in me said how to get a record deal, how to then hire a band that was unique to the guy that was the harder worker because you could go down the Jersey Shore when cover banners were making $3,000 a night in 1979, 80, 81.

It's real money.

We were making $100 in an original band to split between everybody. If you were lucky, wow, if you were lucky, if you were lucky because oftentimes you'd play for free because it was original music. So I never made any money, but I didn't need it because I was 16, 1718 I was able to live at home and for me that is a big part of the success was right time, right place, born at a certain time, you know, not privileged, but food on the table, shoes on my feet and two parents and they were supportive. All good things.

Yeah.

So all of those things helped.

Yeah, of course you sound, the way you're explaining yourself, you know, not the best at all these different things, but the hardest worker. You kind of sound like the Tom Brady of rock and roll, you know, it's like you're like the Tom Brady of Rock. You're not the best at all these things, but you willed yourself to become the best. And championship after championship after championship, I don't know if that resonates with you at all.

It does resonate with me because Tom, Kobe, LeBron, you know, guys of this era, that that's kind of the work ethic that I think that I have or always had. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, we had Kobe. I got to interview Kobe on the show before he passed and just learned so much from him in that short interview. I know you have a relationship with a lot of the great athletes on the sports team at one point the arena football team. But I think you said you have a relationship with Tom as well or you've interacted with him over the years.

No one knows.

What would you say is the greatest thing you learn from Tom Brady about how he pursued his craft and how it applied to your craft?

I've observed Tom closely and I would like to think that I could call him my friend. I mean, he's been to my house many times and I go to practices and we talk on the phone and stuff. Here's a guy that's much younger than me that I'm learning from. Wow. Which I really appreciate, too because 199 in the 6th round and all that kind of stuff. And the audacity to tell mister crafty I'm the best thing you've ever done. And to have a coach like Belichick on him and never giving him all the accolades he could have easily let go to his own head, kept him working. But I think that we carried that being from New Jersey as a band for the longest time. It was like, even with the accolades, we'll show you. And like Dorothy would say that I would just will things and by sheer will, people would follow you if you led by example. And I didn't ask, you know, that, that this had to be this way or, you know, my way or the highway, but nobody ever said I'm out of here because of hard work. You know, they just did everything to and gave everything they had to.

Don't think for a moment that Richie and David and Tico didn't give everything they had, because they did.

Yeah.

Yeah, they did.

You have this amazing quote in the docu series that I want to just read back to you that you said, at 25, all I was thinking about was fun and success.

Yeah.

At 30, I got married and looked at success differently. By 40, start to measure if you accomplish what you set out to. By 50, you start to think about a legacy. By 60, as the chinese proverbs says, you are the man you're meant to be. So at 60, when I look back, did I become the man I wanted to be? I'm curious, do you feel like you've become that?

I think it's a work in progress, but I'm not disappointed by anything that I've done and I've had very few regrets, which I'm really proud to be able to say, yeah, you know, I've had loss, I've had physical ailments, I've had victories and I've had defeats, but I'm very proud of the legacy. Thus far, I haven't done anything to it up. As I've said, I'm only here to sell the truth. And it's blemished, but it's real.

If you could go back to your, your younger self in your twenties or early thirties and you could only give yourself three pieces of his advice, and, you know, everything that you know now you're just going back in time and you're speaking to your younger self, late twenties, early thirties, with everything that you've experienced, what three things would you say to that younger John?

I think there's. I don't even know that there's three. I would say take time to enjoy it more. Don't lose faith in yourself, even when you feel like your baby down for the last time, you know, and the eight count is going to nine. And to believe in the power of we, hey, I think that those three things is probably what I would say.

If you could jump in time 30 years from now and imagine you would get to accomplish everything and live the life that you want to live for the next 30 years, and just imagine you're in that state of wisdom. What three pieces of advice would you give your younger self as you are today, from that future self, if that makes sense?

Well, 90, looking back on 60, you know, I guess I would probably say, did you live up to the code that you set, you know, for yourself and for others and now for the next generation? So with my kids, you know, that if I could see them becoming members of society that were contributing something positively, then that will have been a victory, because it's not about fame or fortune or anything else that goes with it. I think it goes back to, did you leave something behind worthy of having been here?

Wow.

So that, to me, right now, as I sit here and I think about where my kids are because they're all grown, I'm not thinking about me anymore. I sort of feel like I've achieved the highest highs. What I hope with this record in this film is that it's going to say, hey, good. Mile marker the 40th. And by the way, this new album is pretty darn good, but it's not going to be slippery when wet again. I'm 62 years old. It's time for the next generation to have their slippery one wet. But I would like to think that my next slippery when wet could be, you know, did my kids make any kind of contributions to the world? Wow, that would be neat.

That's beautiful. What does being a father tell you about life?

You don't know, man. From the minute that we won, I remember, you know, our first child was our daughter, and I didn't have sisters, let alone a baby. When the door closed on that first night, we were like, there's no owner's manual that comes with this. Wow. So you figure it all out, okay? Step at a time and you get it and you work hard at it, and with every child and then with every chapter of every child, the playbook changed. Wow. And with their girls to boys and then toddlers to teens and then teens to adults and adults getting married, nobody told me about these chapters in the book. And I'm like, you would think that by now somebody would inform me about these chapters, but no one had told me about these chapters, and they're all different. So, you know, we're just trying to navigate it. And now all my friends that are my age go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't we tell you? I'm like, you, man. No, you didn't tell me.

What is a lyric from one of your songs that you've written that really speaks to you of your season of life right now?

Oh, my God. You're catching me off guard. I'm not usually good at this, but there's song on the new album. It's called Hollow man, and it says, what do you sing when the song's been sung? Who do you fight when the war is won? Who. What do you write when your book is done?

Wow.

What do you sing when the song's been sung? Here I am, the hollow man, telling stories about the promise of a promised land. I feel like a cheap bouquet of flowers in a one night stand with my heart in my hand. I am the hollow man. And it just. Wow. It's saying, I'm an empty vessel. I'm here looking up at the sky and saying, okay, lord, what's next? Wow. And so that's just a song on the new.

That's on the new album that comes out June 7. June 7.

Wow. Yeah. Hollow man's a story of me today.

Did you find the answer to that?

No, I'm living it. Every day is an opportunity to write a song, but I don't often take every day and turn it on. As a matter of fact, at times, I have to turn it off and just acknowledge that it'll be there next time I want it. Turn the faucet on. But because it becomes so overwhelming, if you run the course of a cycle, like, with the joy that I've found with this record, it was time to say, okay, it's being repetitive. It's time to shut off the faucet. Okay, here's a new album. It's called forever. These lessons won't be manifest. They're manifested, but they won't be fully learned for the next two years. Wow. And then I'll look back on them, and then I'll know where I was.

That's hard for you, you know, 44 decades plus of doing music you've had to kind of, like, reinvent your identity almost every decade or every couple of albums or every few years while keeping, you know, your roots, but innovating, you know, music and things like that. But recently, you went through surgery on your vocal cords, and it's throughout the documentary series when people can watch it. And, you know, I can relate to this in my own way of being an athlete.

Right? You can.

And getting injured.

Right.

And my whole identity, my entire life, being tied into.

Good. Let's talk about this.

Being talented and being valuable and being able to use my skill sets to go make something happen of my dreams and my vision.

Right.

But then when I got injured playing in a sport that you were an owner of another team, playing arena football, that vision of my identity and my future became shattered, literally and emotionally and spiritually. And it was a year and a half of recovery and trying to figure out, okay, what do I do next? Who am I of this next season of life? What is my next chapter? What is my next song? What is my next play if I'm not able to play that game anymore? In your journey of, you know, your vocal cords not being the exact same in your twenties, at 60, how have you mentally and emotionally dealt with the identity shifts and changes as an artist and as a man?

You and I were talking off camera about that period between when you stop playing the game that you loved and determining that you were gonna be here, which probably was not in the cards in 2008, was not. You never dreamt of this, but I gotta guesstimate that you're pretty satisfied with where you are right now.

Very satisfied.

So look at that.

And it needed to happen in order for me to get on this trajectory.

The vehicle is the way. Right?

Exactly.

And I get that. I trust there was a period of mourning for you.

Big time.

Right? Big time. Because from the time you were eight until you were 20. Yeah. 23, 24, you were identified by the game.

Yes.

And then there comes that morning and confusion. I haven't had to quit doing what I'm doing, nor would I ever have to stop writing a song or making a record. But if I chose not to go out and tour again because I couldn't be at that level I am accustomed to performing at, I do wonder how I'll behave. Interesting. But I haven't come to that crossroad.

I hope you don't have to.

I hope I don't have to either. If, God forbid, that is my future, the one thing I will know is I've exhausted every possible way back onto the playing field at the level that I'm accustomed to playing at. So when Kobe had the injury, when Tommy had the injury, when Michael Strahan ripped his peck off of his chest, you know, when every athlete goes through this, the question is, okay, I can get back on the playing field. Can I play in the Super bowl? You know, can I win level of.

What I'm capable of?

Yeah. And I don't know the answer. So I'm a work in progress.

How is that uncertainty? How are you dealing with that right now?

It's better than it was because I'm a really analytical guy when it comes down to it, and I look at pictures of the chords and the progress, and I'm optimistic about it.

Of your actual.

Yeah, I see them all the time.

So you see there's improvement.

Yeah. But if. If it's not up to speed, let's say this, you know, and I hate to even put it out in the world. Yeah. Yeah. That I don't tour. I could promise you, Louis, that I will be able to say I did do it at the highest level. Wow. For the longest time, and I'm good with that, because one thing that I know that I've told myself that since I was 25 was I will never be on the where are they now? Tour. You know, playing in the train station at the, you know, diner and the buffet on Friday evening. It's just not gonna happen. So I will be more than okay with that aspect.

You'll be at peace if you don't get the tour again.

If I don't have. If I don't have the opportunity, which I really would enjoy the opportunity, I'll live with it because I'm still capable of writing a record. I'm still capable of recording a record.

That's cool.

I just need to be able to do two and a half hours a night, four nights a week, and if, God forbid, that doesn't happen, I can absolutely, positively guarantee you, you will never see me. Given 50%. That's out of the question. Wow.

Well, I hope the world gets to see you perform on stage again. And if you're coming to LA, I gotta go. So I'm gonna find a way to get there for sure and check it out. I've only got about five more minutes with you to be respectful of your time. And I want people to watch this docuseries. It's called. Thank you, good night. The Bon Jovi story, it's on Hulu, so make sure you guys go watch this. It's fascinating. If you love art, if you love music, if you love John, if you love just creativity, you know, ups and downs of success stories, you're going to love this series. So make sure you watch this. And if you really want to study your mind and the vision that you had and the drive that you had to will your vision into existence, it is a beautiful story. So make sure you watch this. Even if you don't like music, you'll be inspired by this story and your vision of bringing your heart and putting it on for the world to see. So I really am inspired by that. You got the new album as well, June 7 that people can get.

What's the best place for them to get that?

It's streamed everywhere these days. Press a button.

Okay.

You know, so any go, listen anywhere.

Spotify, Amazon and everything. Perfect. Awesome. Before I ask the final couple questions, what else can we do to be of service to you today?

I don't know. Unless you have a magical mystery cure for the high c's of the vocal cords.

One of the things that you do, which I think is really cool as well, is you're all about service. You've got a charitable foundation as well. You want to give back so many things. You'll see in the docuseries about you wanting to be of service with your music, with your platform, with your fame. And I think that's really cool so people can learn more about that as well. This question, final two questions. This one is called the Three Truths. So I've already asked you a couple hypothetical questions, but this is another one for you. Imagine you do get to live as long as you want to live. You get to keep performing as long as you want to perform. You get to do it all. You see your kids grow up even more, all the different things that happen in life, but for whatever reason, it's your last day on earth, many years away. Live as long as you want. And in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your music with you. You have to take all of your writing with you. This conversation is no longer here. Any piece of content you've put out into this world, it goes with you.

It's a hypothetical scenario.

It goes with you.

It goes with you.

Or it's just not take it with.

You, take it with you. Or it's not in this world, it goes somewhere else. We don't have access to it. Okay, hypothetical. So we don't get to hear your music anymore.

Okay.

But on this last day, you get to leave behind three truths, and that's what we do get to keep from you are these three lessons. They could be lyrics from a song. It could be something on your heart right now. It could be something simple, something whatever it might be. But if it's the last day and you only get to share three lessons with the world, three truths, what would.

Those three truths be for you? Wow. Live your truths without compromise. Be of service and take the time to see the world around you to be one with the world around you see the clouds in the sky see that the sun is shining see that the waves are crashing see that the traffic is rolling by just take the time to smell the roses yeah, that's really important. Too many of us run through life missing every sign of what was there for your pleasure. And so many of us were all self absorbed and consumed and didn't serve anything other than self. And so many of us lived a false life of what others wanted us to do and be. And I think that all of those things are just a waste of this moment in time that we were all given here.

Well, before I ask the final question, John, I would acknowledge you again for being of service to humanity through your talent, your art, and your heart. And you know, I love what you just said about not making it all about self, but also making it about service. And I think that's a beautiful life. So I want to acknowledge you for speaking that and sharing that with people, because I think a lot of people today just want to be successful and be famous and make it about them. So I think that's really cool that you're making it about service, and that's one of your truths. My final question for you, John, you answered this a little bit earlier, but I love to hear if it's evolved. What is your definition of greatness?

Boy, with my brain spinning in my head, what is my definition of greatness? Greatness is being comfortable in your own skin. Greatness is leaving something that is worthy behind. Yeah, I think I'll just leave it there.

John, thanks so much for being here.

Thanks.

Appreciate it.

Man. This was a joy.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you of if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter, and now it's time to go out there and do something great.