Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. They're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at tuckercarlson. Com. Here's the episode. My memory is fading. When were you here last?

Well, I like to measure it in coups and assassination attempts. I was here one coup and one assassination attempt ago.

Now it's the second week of August, and it feels like a different country.

Yeah. Isn't that something?

Yeah. What's happened between May and now?

An assassination attempt in a coup. Yes. That's for one. Olympics.

Basically, the busiest period in American history, but we just forgot it all happened or something.

It is really amazing. It is really. It's unbelievable. I think that both me and you, when I interviewed you on my podcast, which I don't remember when that was, but it was several months before I came out here. We were both talking about how Trying to make predictions about the rest of 2024 is difficult, but the one thing you know is it's going to be crazy. It's going to be something really wild. You could just feel that. At this point, you're like, How do we even accelerate from here? I think we're going to, by the way. I think we've got several more crazy things to go before November.

To the extent you can predict them, what do you foresee?

It's so hard right now. I really have a tough time because I did not see this coming. I didn't see Kamala Harris being the person. It was always everyone who was speculating about- No chance.

She's too dumb, she's too unpopular.

We were like, who's it going to be? Gavin Newsom or Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama? Everybody, even in the corporate media, in the moment when they admitted the Emperor was naked after that debate, even all of them were speculating about who the person- Emperor had no brain. Yeah, right. Exactly. Even all of them were speculating about who it would be if Joe Biden dropped out and Kamala Harris was not the person because she's so awful at this and deeply unpopular. Now they've switched into a new Emperor's New Clothes mode where there is this totally astro-turf fake. Kamala Harris went from being the most unpopular vice president ever to a cultural phenomenon.

The one thing this nation needed was more Kamala Harris.

It's very bizarre to watch it. I said this last time we were here that I like to call them storms, like when you're in the middle of a massive propaganda storm. I always love the example, and I mentioned this last time. I don't know why. Just this example, when Donald Trump said he was going to pull out of Syria, which he ultimately back down on and didn't do. For two in the media, it was the Kurds. What about the Kurds?

Our historic allies, the Kurds.

Yes, the Kurds. We never betrayed the Kurds before, and we'll never do it again.

My grandfather said to me on his deathbed, 1983, he goes, Grandson, don't betray the Kurds.

Then it's like, ever since then, no one's mentioned the Kurds.

But do fight the Houthies. Yeah, right.

That's right. It's so important. But there's these weird propaganda storms, and then they subside. Now, so saying right now, if I were to say, a lot of people who took the COVID got vaccine injured. There's no energy to that. It's not risking anything. It's not like, oh, my God, my channel is going to get me on for a second. Exactly. A couple of years ago, that was a really risky thing to say. Oh, I lived it. Yeah, because you were in that storm. The storm right now is that Kamala Harris has this massive grassroots support. That's why when she ran for president in 2019, she had to drop out before Iowa.

How many delegates did she get that year?

It's It'll take us the whole show to count them up. But come on. I mean, look, however you feel about people, there's people I despise politically. Sure. I cannot stand Bernie Sanders politically. I hate socialism or whatever he is. He's not exactly a socialist, but whatever he is, I hate it. But he had real grassroots support. For real? For real grassroots support. That's why they had to steal it from him. Yes, exactly. Tens of millions of Americans supported Bernie Sanders. Donald Trump, however you feel about him, has real grassroots support. Barack Obama, however you feel about him, had real grassroots support. You know what they all have in common? They didn't drop out before Iowa because nobody with real grassroots support doesn't make it to the first contest. Kamala Harris, it's not as if she was a Bernie Sanders or say, a Ron Paul or a Dennis Kusenich. She had major donors behind her. She took much of the Clinton campaign stuff. She was touted by the corporate media as the candidate when she first announced in 2019. Still, with all that, couldn't get to Iowa. In other words, I think the whole Kamala Harris thing is fake.

It's all astro-tarfed. I think if there was a real election today, I don't see how she could beat Donald Trump, but all of that is- So maybe the- We don't know that that's going to happen.

I don't think so. Of course, that's not going to happen. But I wonder, though, if the lesson is maybe we've been taken in by this illusion that it's about people when really it's about machines, the machinery in the party system, particularly the Democratic Party. It It just doesn't matter what Kamala Harris is like, what her record is, what she believes, what she'll do or not do. She has no role in any of that. She's just a stand in for the oligarchy.

Yeah. I mean, we're going to- It does feel that way, though. Yes. Well, it's an interesting are running that experiment right now to see how fake it is or how little the people actually matter. I will say, at least with Joe Biden, the They proved they couldn't do it with him. He was too seen on that to be able to pull that off. Just like everything, just like the US Empire, governments in general, they're not gods. There are limits to their power. The question is, can they pull this off? It's interesting to me.

That is a really smart point, and I'm glad that you said that because it actually makes me feel better.

Yeah, well, that's it. We still have a shot.

There are limits. They're not omnipotent.

Yes, that's right. Well, I mean, look, There's lots of examples of that, every foreign policy decision in the last 20 plus years. They actually can't do everything. They think we can do a lot. I mean, we can take down nations. We can't build them. We've learned that. But with Joe Biden, there was a really weird mix of things that happened. And one of them is that there is a kernel of truth, just a kernel of truth to the corporate media narrative, which is that, Obviously, me and you were talking, I think at least since 2019, about Joe Biden's very obvious cognitive decline. It was very clear when he came back around after being vice president. If you listened to him back in 2016 when he made the decision not to run. He said it was because he wasn't over his son dying or whatever. But we know it was really because Obama pushed him out in favor of Clinton, even though it was his turn. Traditionally speaking, he was the vice president. But back then, he was Joe Biden. Then once he came back around running in 2019, it was like, Well, this isn't Joe Biden anymore.

But the kernel of truth to the media narrative is that it's also true that it got drastically worse. It got whatever it was, it went from being a thing where... I remember on your Fox show in 2019, you'd be playing these clips of him where he'd go, he'd get the state wrong, he was telling these weird stories. It was transparent to me. It was very clear, but he was still a little bit hit or miss. He'd have one speech where he was okay, then the next speech, he looks like he has dementia. It was like whatever Joe Biden showed up, and he did the debate, which Did he do one or two debates in 2020? I think, did they do two? I can't remember. I can't recall. But he got through them. I mean, Trump talked over it. Trump made a real tactical error and just dominated, whereas you want to let Joe Biden talk.

As we learned, yes.

The muting the microphones really worked in Trump's favor in that debate. But lately, it's not like every other speech. He's bad. He can't pull off one. He can't pull off any interview.

But is he still the President? Who is the President of the United States? Well, here's...

Well, yes, we don't have one. And this is- How strange is that? So this is what's crazy to me, though, right? Is like... So if you look at, first of all, the distinction, which I think should be obvious more and more to people, is that the distinction politically that matters right now is not left versus right. That is just not true. It's one thing that, man, it drives me crazy amongst Republican voters and even Republican leaders that they still want to see things in that distinction. They still want to go the far left Nancy Pelosi or whatever. It's like, yeah, she's not really far left. She uses far left language. But these people, it's not... I'm calling Kamala Harris a Communist or I know people were sending this clip. These are people who work for J.

P. Morgan. Yes, they're not communists.

They're for big business. They're like, Yeah, but look at this clip. She's talking about equality of outcomes. She doesn't even understand what that means. It's not really communist. They're using leftist language. They're liberal. They're neoliberals who are for big business. So the distinction is not left or right. The distinction is establishment versus dissident or corrupt versus honest or something like that. That's That's why Glenn Greenwald is not on the opposition team to us, and Mitch McDonald is our ally. It's not about that. But so one of the things- That's for sure.

Right.

So one of the things that the establishment has, which is really something I've been marveling at lately, is they have unbelievable message discipline, something that us, the dissidents, could never dream of having. I mean, it's just unbelievable. You see some of the compilations of the corporate media. It's just like, hey, they just, hey, JD Vans is weird. That's the line this week.

Tim Walls is a funk killer. Yes, everyone- Not weird at all, though.

Well, look, my- Totally not weird. Well, my good friend, Michael Mallis, who you had on your Fox show, he wrote the book on North Korea, and he's just really smart guy and hilarious and a great guy. But he pointed this out that a few years ago when Joe Rogan was taking Ivermectin, his doctor prescribed him Ivermectin after he- Is that the fish tank cleaner or the horse tranquilizer?

I can't remember which one.

But they were all of them horse dewormer. There's a million different things that Ivermectin does, yet they all picked horse dewormer and repeated that. Then you could look at sharp as a Joe Biden, sharp as a tack, sharp as a tack. Everyone said this in private meetings, he's sharp as a tack. People forget the shortest-lived propaganda campaign ever, which was way back last month, was a cheap fakes. You remember for a week, you were told that there are these videos, they're deep fakes. What distinguishes them from deep fakes is that they're real videos. But you see, Tucker, they're trying to make it look like Joe Biden is old and senile, but that's all just bullshit or whatever. They stay on message. They very much stay on message, whereas the MAGA movement has nothing like that. Part of that is because Donald Trump's at the top, and Donald Trump doesn't stay on message. That's not how he works. He's a stream of conscious type thinker who goes on stage and doesn't even know what he's going to talk about. He figures it out while he's up there. There's something endearing about that.

But more fundamentally, one movement is about the individual, and the other is about the collective. Absolutely. The collective doesn't care about your opinion.

Well, it's amazing, right? Just that even of these people who work in places that you used to work and some places you didn't work, but people at the New York Times or the Washington Post or CNN or NBC or CBS, that all All of them, at least in their own mind, still pretend to be journalists, and yet they're somehow able to just repeat the talking point exactly verbatim as everyone else does. Anyway, my point is we don't want to be that because we don't want to be We don't want to all just be mindless drones. However, it's amazing to me that Donald Trump, none of his surrogates, no one on the pro-Trump side, seems to be able to effectively hit Kamala Harris with what is the most obvious thing to hit her with. It's the greatest scandal in American history, which is like what you just said, that we don't have a president. The President of the United States, everybody has essentially admitted, is too senile to run for President. Yet he's going to be President until January. We are in a proxy war with the biggest nuclear power in the history of the world, and we have another proxy war-ish type thing that looks to be devolving into a wider regional war in Israel, and we don't have a President.

This is like the biggest scandal in the history of the Republic if we're a Republic anymore. Kamala Harris is directly implicated in this. She was one of the major people lying through her teeth that Joe Biden is sharp as attack in private meetings. It seems like somehow the Trump campaign has not been able to effectively hit her for this. It's like right there in front of us, you pulling Joe Biden out was admitting that he's too senile to run for president. Of course. Yes. And yet you're not invoking the 25th Amendment. This is what it's for. He clearly can't be president. Then what does it say about the machine that they're quite happy with that? That that works very well for them.

I mean, there are two levels in which it's upsetting. One is the practical level, which is you probably do want a commander in chief if you're on the cusp of nuclear war, which we are. But the other is philosophical and speaks to whether our current system can continue. I mean, we're just admitting now that we don't have an executive, that we don't need an executive This is governed, that we are governed by an unelected body of people whose names we don't know, whose motives we don't understand. Like, what?

And also as we all- That's the end, right? As we all know, the only reason they pulled Joe Biden is because it it became clear he couldn't win. But if he could have won, they'd be quite happy to keep him in there. They like that. It's probably better that they don't have this guy who every now and then might think he's President of the United States of America.

Why is there no curiosity about who they is?

That's a good question.

I I can answer that. I think most people assume Obama is at the top of that pyramid, but I can't confirm that. We don't know. I haven't heard really anybody in a position of authority ask who does run the government.

I don't know that there's an easy... I don't know the answer to that, I don't know that there's an easy answer. Kind of wild, right? I don't think it's Obama. I mean, I think Obama has influence, but I don't know how much Obama really ran the government when he was President of the United States. I certainly know that he definitely, at the very beginning got rolled by his generals. I think that he... I don't exactly know where he was on some of these issues, but at least with... What he ran on in terms of health care was not what Obamacare was at all. In fact, if you remember way back in ancient history, in 2008, Hillary Clinton was the one who was for the individual mandate. Of course. And he criticized her. I actually thought it was a great line he had in the debate. He was like, The individual mandate solves the health insurance crisis in the same way that mandating you buy a house solves the homelessness problem, which was a great line. That's totally exactly right. How does that help anything to mandate you buy something that you've already deemed you can't afford to buy.

But then that's what Obamacare ultimately was. And why is it? It was good for the insurance companies. It seems to me like he was always getting rolled by what are the powerful interests, which are essentially big business that owns the government, uses the government as a tool to increase their profits. I don't know. I mean, I don't know who's really running things. Is it the Director of National Intelligence? Is it Biden's Chief of Staff? I don't know. But it's not Joe Biden.

That's for sure. Kamala Harris seems like, flots him on the waves of history herself. Is she making independent judgments and choices that are... Is she driving her own narrative? I don't think so.

I don't think she stands for anything. I don't think there's one issue ever where it's like, no, she believes in this passion, and she's going to stand up and try her best to make sure this goes through. It's like she was an aggressive prosecutor prosecutor in California. But if she was a prosecutor right now in California, I'm sure she'd be one of these progressive prosecutors. It's just like, which way was the wind blowing? Is that the thing to get me more power?

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You can go to heritage. Org/tucker and contribute to this important work today. A lot depends on it. Heritage. Org/tucker.

Hey, it's Kimberly Fletcher here from Mom's For America with some very exciting news. Tucker Carlson is going on a nationwide tour this fall, and Mom's For has the exclusive VIP meet and greet experience for you. Before each show, you can have the opportunity to meet Tucker Carlson in person. These tickets are fully tax deductible donations.

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Subject to terms and conditions applies to new AIG direct customers only. Minimum premium applies. Aig Europe SA is authorized by the Luxembourg Ministry of Finance and supervised by the Luxembourg Commissioner for Insurance and is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland for Conduct of Business Rules. Before we get into the details of what's actually happening right now just to speed ahead a year, no matter who wins, does anybody believe that our system functions as advertised? Do we know too much to continue?

It's a good question. I think our system has worked this way for a very long time. What's really drastically changed is that people have really woken up to it. It's a mix of several things Obviously, the internet is a huge part of that and social media and stuff like that. Then also just the Trump phenomenon of the deep state coming out of the shadows to some degree. I know I've heard you talk about the clip before, and I've played it a million times on my podcast, but where Chuck Schumer was on with Rachel Maddow. Oh, yeah. And he says the thing, which is an amazing moment because she goes off script and she even says before she asked the question, she goes, I don't mean to put you on the spot here, but President-elect Donald Trump, this is in January of 2016, he's won the election, but he's not President yet. He goes, President-elect Donald Trump was just tweeting, whatever, talking shit to the CIA or whatever. He just off the cuff in a real moment goes, I would not do that. It was like the most honest thing Chuck Schumer has ever said. It was amazing.

It was six ways to Sunday to get back at you.

I never really believed. I mean, I was an idiot, obviously. I didn't really believe any of that. I was hunting probably 10 years ago down in South Texas, right in the Rio Grande on somebody's ranch. This guy comes out with a box about this big and an aerial, like a fiber glass line that went up, and the end of it was connected to a racoon tail. It was a coyote call, and they turned this thing on, and it made the sound of a dying animal. From the depths of Hades, these sounds. Then this tail would whip around in the air. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my life. Out of nowhere, within about three minutes, all these animals showed up. There was a big cat, all these coyotes. I thought, that's what Trump is. He's like a coyote call. He shows up and out of this landscape that looks desolate, like nothing's going on, all of a sudden, the predators come out and you see for the first time that you were always surrounded by these things. They were always there. You just didn't see them. Do you know what I mean? I felt that way very much about the intel agencies.

Of course, I applied to work at one. I knew they were there, but I really had no idea the degree to which they were running everything.

Well, I think that's exactly right. Say in the '90s, when I was a kid, and if my parents had... They used to always have a Crossfire. It was before you were on it. It was the Pat Buchana.

Yeah, and Tom Braden.

Yeah, they'd have that on or whatever. They knew the CIA existed. It's not like they weren't aware. They were like, Yeah, it's a super secret spy organization that does super secret spy stuff. They knew that. Of course.

Against your enemies. Right.

But it was never like a thought like, Okay, the presidential election between Clinton and Bob Dole is coming up. How much is the CIA just crafting the illusion of what we see in front of us? That never would have been a thought. Now, that's a thought that's in a lot of people's minds about the whole thing is fake. There's a great quote that your CIA guy had when you asked about the Kennedy assassination. It was such a great line because, yes, the government was involved. It's all fake. It's all fake. That's the perfect line to describe it.

But we know that. I think people know that. They know that, and that's why everyone's crazy and really getting down these rabbit holes. I understand why. But does that ever change? Once you know this, can you unknow it?

Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't think so. I don't think you can put that toothpaste back in the tube. I think ultimately that's probably, at least at this point, that's Trump's great accomplishment, for better or worse. I think it's for the better. I think it's better to know things than to be in a state of ignorance. But there is no getting away from it. It's past the point, especially for Trump supporters. I think we're way past the point of them ever believing the system is real. Even in 2020, let's just say, hypothetically, that the election was completely on the up and up, and there was no fraud involved in the election.

Mark Zuckerberg didn't spend $400 Well, no, but I'm saying that stuff we know is real, right?

Even the Time magazine piece that they read. If you had a guy in Donald Trump, who the entire media class and political class told you that it cannot be this guy, and not just your opposition. Mitt Romney, the last nominee before him said, Anyone but this guy. Everyone said, You can't have this guy. The voters decided, No, we want this guy. This is who we want. They framed him for treason. They framed the sitting US President President for treason with a foreign hostile power. That completely collapsed. It's weird. You don't hear anything about that anymore. Not much. Isn't that just that in itself so crazy that Vladimir Putin's plant is possibly going to be President again, and no one in the media is even mentioning that as a thing, and yet also not apologizing? How can you do neither of those things? How can you either say, Russia is about to have control of the White House again, or, Hey, we were wrong about that whole Russia having control of the White House thing. But anyway, so they frame them for treason. They impeach them twice. They raid his home in Mar-a-Lago. All these things that happen, how would you ever after that, if Trump loses, let's say, how would any Trump supporter ever accept that this was real, that he had a real...

You know what I mean? That our team actually lost and your team actually won. It's always going to be viewed as what it is.

So they stole it. So you made such a smart point at breakfast, which I wish we had filmed because it was great. But about how there's no effort by the establishment in Washington, both parties, to win over people who support Trump. There's no effort to convince them, to cajole them. It feels like the people who run the country actually hate a lot of the country for real.

I was thinking about this. I recently rewatched Pat Buchana's speech from the 1992 Convention, which was an amazing speech. He was a speechwriter for Nixon. He was really good at writing speeches. That was his thing. It got the media flipped out about it. They called it the Culture War speech and all that. I remember. Even though it wasn't really that culture worry, really. But there was this one point where he said something along the lines of... He was talking about being on the campaign trail he had run and challenged George H. W. Bush, and this was him coming back in to throw supporters behind H. W. A mistake, in my opinion, but he gave a great speech regardless. But he said at one point that he was out there and he was talking to people who were really struggling. As he was right, there's some woman who was talking about how she lost her job, They were going to maybe take her kid away from her. Then there was some guy who worked at a plant that was going to close down. He was like, Please save our jobs. It's like touching moments. His message to the Republicans was like, Look, these people are our people.

They're our fellow countrymen, and we have to get back in touch with them. He said at one point, he goes, They don't expect miracles from us, but they have to at least know that we care. That's it. It's amazing how little it takes. One of the things about this Walsh guy, which he is... One of the things that I think is one of the reasons why they picked him is that he at least gets that you're supposed to talk about issues that maybe regular people might care about. This is why some of these old distinctions aren't as meaningful anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm for laissez-faire free markets. I'm a libertarian. I do not like socialism. But at least someone like Bernie Sanders is talking about your health care costs or your take home pay.

Why do the banks have all the power?

That's a fair question. Yeah, things that matter, whereas the corporate media is totally obsessed over January sixth.

Climate change.

Climate change, racism, even democracy in this weird abstraction, the way they talk about it. But no, it's like, what people care about is price inflation. My groceries are 30% more expensive. That's a big deal. Anyway, I think the Pat Buchana point was like, you got to at least give them something, just something. Try to do something for these people. I would think it would take very little. I mean, I think I've heard you say this before where it's just like, all right, you guys get your wall. You know what I mean? Okay, Donald Trump won and all you guys wanted to build. Okay, so we're going to build a wall because it's a symbol that you still have a little bit of say in how the country is run. We're going to give you that and maybe two other little things, and we're going to keep all of the profits that we're raking in. Exactly. It's like something. They don't want to offer any deal to the Trump supporters to try to pull them back in to this system. That is very creepy to me.

Well, it's ominous, too, because if you don't care what people think, well, first of all, in a democracy, you're required to care what they think. I guess we can settle that question. No, it's not a democracy or even a Republic. But if you don't care, then you can do... There's no limit to what you can do to them.

Yeah, well, that's right. But also, even whether it's democracy or not, because obviously we're not a democracy, and obviously we're not a Republic. We're an oligarchy that's a world empire. That's really how you would describe America. But even in an authoritarian dictatorship, there's limits to what you can do to your people. You have to at least convince them that you're doing something on behalf of them. Otherwise, people won't put up with it anymore.

It requires a lot of force to rule in a true autocratic way. Even in Middle Eastern theocracies, I've seen it. The king or the crown prince or the guy in charge takes the temperature of the country. In the UAE, every week, the head of the country has to sit there while people from the provinces come in and complain to him in his house. It's not just a kabuki. You have to keep in touch with what people want, and you have to deliver some percentage of it or at least pretend you are, right?

Yeah, you would think so. I mean, it's like in a friendship or a marriage or a business or anything.

They're just like, How about some more suffering and degradation for you? How would you like a little more of that? It makes me worry about what happens if she wins.

Yeah, well, me too. Although there's... I think Trump supporters and people who are, I think, truly dissidents of this regime, have to... Like I said, we're never going to have the message discipline of the establishment, and that's okay. We don't want that. I think we do have to be wiser about how exactly are we going to attack this thing. I'm a hardcore libertarian, and that's a very small group of people in this country. There's some, but there's not that many. No. Now, there's enough that Donald Trump came to the libertarian Convention because presidential elections are close these days, and any little block helps. But if you're talking about Trump supporters, it's okay, hey, you got tens of millions of people in this country. You could see where, look, there's real lessons to be learned from last year's the boycott of Target and Bud Light. Just in that. Forget even politics, just in terms of being consumers. Hey, look at the power you guys have. If you decide to do something, you can really do something and you can change the direction of the culture, the direction of the country. But you got to be really smart about when you decide to do it and who you decide to go after.

Man, it was frustrating to me to see. So Donald Trump gets shot in the head, does this, and it's the reason why he's alive. If he hadn't done that, His brains are blown out on national television. Now, what we know about this, and obviously there's a lot more to uncover, but let's just say best case scenario, it was a wild failure. Failure that you really can't even imagine. Have you seen some of the videos? This kid is walking around and scoping out the area for over an hour before he's there. He's allowed to be on a roof that's 100 50 yards away from the former President of the United States of America. People on the ground are screaming, this guy's got a gun.

But Joe Biden's employees allowed it. Joe Biden's employees, their executive branch employees.

And also take into account all the other things that they've done to this guy, and then they allowed this to happen.

Yes.

And two weeks later, all of right wing Twitter is up in arms about some trannies in the opening ceremony of the Olympics. And it's like, Guys, focus. Come on, man. I don't like that stuff either. And I think it's awful that they're shoving that in everyone's face, and that shouldn't have been at the opening ceremony. But hey, no, no, no, no, No, outrage is a finite resource, just like everything else. We are outraged about this thing. Not that. We're outraged about this. All it would take would be a little bit of focus. Okay, we're not going to have the message discipline of the corporate media, but just a little bit of focus from the dissonance to just pick four things that we're going to focus on, all of our energy. We're getting the bottom of that assassination attempt. What the hell happened there? They could do it. We could figure that out. This Kennedy, where we have one film that we have to all rely on. We got a bunch of different camera angles. We can track this kid's cell phone. We could do all types of different things. To me, the major... Man, my first message to every America first type or even the Glenn Greenwald, true leftists or anyone who's a dissident of this regime.

It's like the rule is we only support America first non-intervention interventionist candidates. And anybody who has anything to say to you about war with Iran is your enemy. You're not on their side and you're not supporting them. You will not support Lindsay Graham. How the hell? Let a Democrat get in. Who cares? Is it any worse than Lindsay Graham? No.

It would be much better. Probably better. Of course, because it's more straightforward. I completely agree with you. Completely. And it is the neocons. It's all the Republican Senate Committee chairman. It's Lindsay Graham. It's It's all the creepy war worshippers who will immediately, on every other issue, whip around and betray you. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. Because they're fundamentally corrupt, and you just don't agree with them. Maybe some of them are nice people. I haven't met any, but I'm sure that they exist. But yeah, they shouldn't be in the coalition. But to the assassination, it seems like the difference between climate change or equity or system systemic racism and the assassination is, bullets are real. We can measure their trajectory, we can measure their effect. We saw it on video. That's actually real in the way that war is real, violence is real. Violence is real. That's got to be at the top position of concern, right?

Oh, yeah, 100%.

I don't understand how we could just lie right past that. What do you think actually happened?

I got to say, it's just It looks like it is what it obviously is. Yeah, I agree with that. I don't know. I don't know enough to prove the case. I did see there was... I can't remember who was somebody at the Blaze who had... They had reported that because it's not just the government who's tracking your phones. It's like a million. Every app is tracking your phones. Of course.

Yeah, you can buy the geo-location. Yeah.

So they had a phone from the shooter's house that had gone to DC and been at this spot that's known to be where FBI meets with their informants and stuff like that.

Right down the road from FBI headquarters. Yeah.

What are we looking at here? Then, of course, it's like, look, let's just say there's a serial killer in a neighborhood and they've killed 11 people. Then there's a 12th person who's dead, and you see that serial killer leaving their house on video. It's like, okay, I'm not saying that's maybe not enough evidence to go to a court of law and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this person killed them. But I feel like if we're all just looking at that, we're like, I'm pretty sure. My starting assumption is going to be that guy did it. You know what I mean? Listen, you predicted this a year ago. Yeah, it was pretty obvious. You were like, we're obviously on the trajectory to ending in an assassination. Follow the trend line.

Yeah, it's not hard.

Then when it happens, it is pretty difficult to not go, All right. Because if it's not that, then you're saying, Okay, so what explains this being a block away from the FBI building? What explains the fact that this was allowed to happen? I mean, it's just so hard to understand what other explanation there could be.

The Biden administration clearly planted or allowed the planting of, but I think they clearly did plant pipe bombs on the morning of January sixth in front of the DNC and the RNC. Kamala Harris was at the DNC that morning. I mean, I think that's shown.

Yeah. And then nobody cares. You were the only guy in cable news who would repeatedly bring this up. Literally nobody else. Nobody else is even interested in what the hell was that?

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So it is a great way, one of the few ways to actually protect yourself from big tech and big government, to reclaim your personal privacy. Without privacy, there is no freedom. The Unplug phone, you can get a $25 discount when you use the code Tucker at the checkout. So go to unplug. Com/tucker to get yours today. Highly recommend it. You got to pay close attention. Don't let the three card money thing distract you. The moving Walnut shell. Just remember, what you care about is who's got the guns. Watch the guns. That's why I think we don't pay any attention all to what's happening in the United States military, which is clearly wildly politicized. That's not accidental. It's not ideological. It's practical. You subborn the people with guns, you control the people with guns, and then you have power because it's out of the barrel of a gun, the political power grows, right? Yeah. I don't know why no No one is focused on that stuff. But if the secret service, heavily armed federal agency, is a political tool, then it's like you really have to rethink the terms.

100%. To your point about the three card Monte thing is like what I was saying about the Olympic opening ceremonies, right? Is that there are these things that are clearly done to trigger right wingers. Of course. We're just doing the thing that makes the conservative DNA's blood boil, right? Okay, be aware of that. Now, I'm not saying that there's not a point where that is necessary to fight. If they're coming after your children or something like that or teaching this garbage to kids, okay, no, listen, I get it. That's worth dying over. You know what I mean? I'm not suggesting anybody do anything illegal or come out. I'm just saying that someone coming after your children is something, okay, that must be fought. But also just at least recognize that, yes, this is a tactic. It's a distraction tactic to get you caught up in the latest outrage of the day and then also to look crazy to normal people. To someone who's in the middle or maybe someone who's a more liberal person, but they're not part of an evil cabal. They just grew up in Brooklyn or whatever. It's like they just see right where it's like, man, these guys are obsessed over whether there was a dude in a dress at the opening ceremony It's much easier to dismiss you.

Whereas if you're relentlessly focused on something that really matters, it's much more difficult. That's a big part of it. Yeah, don't get distracted by the three-card Monte. Then to your point, I think about who controls the guns, I think that's also a big part of the reason why they've been so triggered by the Trump movement in general, is also because Donald Trump is leading a right-wing populist movement. That's very scary to elites.

Because it's armed.

It's armed and tough. Like a left wing populist movement.

They should be afraid.

Yeah. I hope they are afraid. Yeah. No, I think that's right. I was talking about this. I was down with Candace Owens I just did her podcast last week, and I was talking about this. But they're not a fan of left wing populism either. They hate it. Yeah. No, they don't like it. We went to war with Russia to hide the fact that they rigged the primaries against Bernie Sanders, a left-wing populist.

That's- Right.

There's a reason why they rigged the election against Bernie Sanders. There's a reason why he was unacceptable to them. But they didn't freak out quite the way they did over Donald Trump. I think a lot of that's because if you look at the people in Bernie Sanders's movements- What are they going to do about it? Okay, you've gotten all of the male feminists together. Okay, good luck with that power. However, when you get every barrel chested man in America, every gun enthusiast, every outdoorsman, and also a ton of cops and military, which, by the way, I think explains what you're talking about with the politicizing of the military. That was a big part of what the Vax mandate was, too. Absolutely. We got to get some of these guys out of here.

They're afraid of testosterone, and they want to identify who's got it in abundance, and they want to isolate and punish those people. That's why they're against nicotine. That's why Walla Walla Halls raise the taxes on nicotine pouches. Of course, they're not carcinogen. There's no evidence, by the way, that nicotine is a carcinogen. It's not that we know of. It's all a lie. What they hate about nicotine is it raises testosterone levels. They even suppress that fact. That's a fact on Google. Google nicotine and testosterone and see how many results it takes you to get to the core truth, which is, yes, nicotine use raises testosterone levels. Man, it is way, way down. That's not an accident. They're afraid of testosterone.

Yeah. Listen, 100%, that's completely right. Even on top of, even say, cigarettes, where there certainly is some evidence that cigarettes are very bad for you. There's overwhelming evidence. Yeah, they are. I shouldn't smoke cigarettes, although it is cool. It's really cool. I miss it. Vaping is so lame. Every time I do it, I wish I was just smoking a cigarette. But anyway. Okay. But the point is- Trade offs. Exactly. Trade offs makes my wife happier. So, okay, it's worth it. But I I travel the country a lot because I'm a stand-up comic. I'm on the road all the time. It's like, look, there's no question, way less people smoke now than you used to. It's like, okay, that worked. It turns out economic incentives do work. Do you tax something? You get less of it than you otherwise would. That's why it's so great that we tax income. You get less of that than you otherwise would. But I go all throughout this country and like, yeah, people don't smoke as much as they used to. But everywhere you go, it's just Arby's, McDonald's, Burger King. It's not like health is really the concern here.

What is actually the concern?

Well, public health has gotten much worse in the last 30 years.

You don't have a problem with people being lethargic and obese. You have a problem with them smoking cigarettes. What explains that? I think you just explained it.

It's the same reason they don't like the AR-15 because it's a visible sign of your autonomy. They hate that. It's a threat to their control. No, I couldn't agree more. So Tim Walsh, just to descend into the political for a second, what do you make of that pick? How's that going?

I was somewhat surprised by it. I didn't think he- I would have bet money Shapiro was getting it. Yeah, I thought until... I mean, they sent the signals over the last couple of weeks that he was out. But I was assuming Mark Kelly was going to be the guy because from what I understood, they were friendly with Harris. He's got this thing where his wife was shot and he's an astronaut. There is just something about that that's like, you can't help, but it is an archetype of a guy who's appealing, and also because he's in Arizona. I just thought he was the obvious choice. The Shapiro thing, I think, evidently came down to him just being too ambitious and like, Come on, Harris can't really have someone around her. You know what I mean? You just can't because she's so He wasn't beta enough. Yeah, well, that's right. Then I guess this guy fit that mold. My initial impression, this is not somebody I knew much about until this last week, but my initial impression is that he's also very unimpressive and that he's not particularly bright. As I mentioned, he does at least seem to understand that you got to try to talk about stuff that people actually care about.

He understands understands that we live in a populist moment, so he's trying to be a populist or present himself that way. But again, I just think the thing is, I think it's totally fake and astro-turfed. And the idea that we're supposed to pretend that he has... Remember when they were like, Beto O'Rourke has the it factor. It's just so what are you talking about? I miss him.

He was the best.

What world are you living in where you look at that guy and you go, Man, just dripping with charisma. It's like, so they're doing that right now. And this is just totally anecdotal, and I don't know what it means. But I have, personally, I've gotten like 30 text messages about donating to Democrats in the last two weeks, and I've never donated to... No, I donated to Tulsi Gabbard when she was running in 2019. Because it was like the thing where you needed individual donations to make the debate stage, and I just wanted her on the debate stage. So But they're doing all types of maneuvering to give the impression that there's enthusiasm and support for these guys, including things like having, I don't know, I'm out of touch in all that, but having all these rappers or whatever at her event. You get a bunch of people who are going to see the rapper, and then you go, Look at all these people coming to Kamala Harris's event. They have all of their techniques that they use. I think it's fake.

In all of it. That Walls guy, I don't want to be too unfair because I don't know him and I don't have any hard evidence. He's a weirdo. That guy's weird. He seems very strange.

I'm sorry.

There's something not right about that guy's personal life. I hope I'm wrong because I don't want people like that with power. But most people I know with power in Washington have personal lives who would not withstand scrutiny at all. But I think that. But I can't get past the core fact about Walls, which is he presided over, allowed the biggest city in the state to get burned down.

And seem to not only allow it, but- Well, he liked it. And support it.

Do you see the video of his wife saying, I kept the windows open so I could smell the burning rubber from the riots?

No, I did not see that.

The wife whose hand he shook?

Oh, my God. By the way, I know it's picking on a little thing, but who the hell shakes their wife's hand?

Well, Kamala Harris and her fake husband kissed each other with masks on. I mean, what? It's just so... I guess, look, I think I'm pretty libertarian on the part. I am. I mean, I've been in TV my whole life. I know a lot of people with weird personal lives. I'm not a judger at all.

Yeah, sure.

However, if everybody in power has some weird celibate Mitch McDonald and his wife and Kamala Harris and her husband, this Tim Walls guy. There's just no chance these are normal marriages at all. That's not good.

It's bad. People were jumping on JD Vance for, I was with you. I think it was an old clip where he was just talking about all these childless people making decisions for the country. Look, I'm not... Again, I'm with you on that. I'm not judging people. I don't think... There are some people who shouldn't have kids. It's the best thing I've ever done, but I certainly think there are people who wouldn't make very good parents. There are people who are very bad parents who probably would have been better off not being parents.

I'm not for mandatory childbearing.

But come on, there is something to be said for like, I would I would like a lot of our leaders to just be in a marriage where they love their wife and they have some kids. I think it gives you some stakes that you really can't get any other way. Exactly. Yeah, there's no question. It is very, very bizarre people who seem to disproportionately rise to the top.

It's so obvious that they're bizarre. I look at this Walls guy and I'm like, again, I don't know. I don't have a police report that I'm not sharing or something, but that guy, not babysitting my kids. No way. Which is what's so strange about them going with the line of JD Vance being weird.

I understand they're in a little bit of a pickle where they're like, okay, they have to find rhetoric. The Trump just got shot, so they have to pull back on the Nazi stuff because it's not really working. Also, it's really hard to say you're not... It's really hard to be like, oh, the right wingers are inciting violence when they say fake news. But we're not inciting violence when we say, The democracy is on the line unless this guy is taken out. But it's weird. You're using the word weird. You're the party of freaks. I know. What are you talking about? How is weird going to be a pejardive for you when you're literally sitting here going, You see that dude with a beard and a dress? That's a beautiful woman. Then you could call someone else weird. It's just so strange.

Every accusation is an admission. But I also think it's just, I don't want to go on too much, but I don't want to be mean, but it's interesting. I've always thought this was so strange, especially in the Democratic Party. They're always telling you that gay is great. It's better to be gay. We love gays. We're celebrating Stonewall. Okay, fine. But then there's so many people in the Democratic Party who are closeted, including in positions of real power. I know them. I don't believe in outing people, and I'm not going to, but I know that for a fact. It's like, on what grounds are you hiding it, actually? That's too much.

I can't- I also have absolutely nothing against gay people. I do have an issue with people living a lie. Well, yeah. Because there's something about... It's also not just lying. But living a lie is like a it's a profound thing where you get used to every inch of your existence being a lie. The very nature of who you are is a lie. Then That just obviously leads to people who have the ability to totally lie about who they are. Exactly. That I do have an issue with.

Nicely put. There's so much of it. I can't get over it. I'm not saying that as a blue nose or even as a judgment on the morality of it, but I just find it so striking. How many people like that are there in Washington? It's wildly disproportionate, wildly. Even compared to San Francisco or some libertina place like that, or the West Village, there are freakier personal lives in DC. I just find that really, really telling. I don't know what it means exactly, but it has to with lying.

Yeah, that's right. I don't exactly know either. I mean, I do think that Look, as we've learned a bit from the Jeffrey Epstein thing, and I guess we find out that there's this child pedophile blackmail ring that was pretty clearly involved a foreign country, and it's going around compromising political leaders and influential people. I guess we're supposed to pretend like that must have been the only one, and it's over now. I mean, we never got to the bottom of it. Sure, all of the cameras malfunctioned, and the guy committed suicide, and we never get the client list, and we never get any of this information.

The sitting attorney general of the United States Barr, covered it up, lied to cover it up, which he did. Yeah, that's right. I've said that a bunch of times, and every time he tells someone I know that that's outrageous, he complains. I hope he'll sue me over that because it's true.

Let's go to discovery.

A hundred % Barr lied about Right.

And so, okay- But why? What was that? Well, that's the big question. And then what is still going on? I mean, obviously, there were people above Jeffrey Epstein involved in it. And obviously, if you were doing something like that, you wouldn't only have one. You know what I mean? Exactly. It does at least make you wonder, Oh, is it possible that people, obviously, people who can be blackmailed are very easy to control? And so, Oh, why would it be that there are so many people in powerful positions who have these secret, weird personal lives? And I think plausibly, part of that explanation is because, well, okay, then they're very easy to blackmail. You control them.

Do you ever think about your own life in these terms? You're one of the people who will just say what you think is true, period. You're always punching up, not down, always. I don't know. There's a non-trivial risk to that. Do you ever consider that as the father of small children?

Yeah. No, I've definitely thought about it before. I don't know. I guess because of the world that I'm in, which is totally removed from the world of hour. I've never been in DC, and I've never been in... I'm in comedy clubs and then just doing podcasts on the internet. I guess I feel a little bit removed from the threat as my profile has gotten bigger, it's something I think about more. I don't know. I can't stop. I don't know. Listen, man, if it ever really came down, if my kids were ever threatened, you could... By the way, CIA, if you're listening or whatever, I would protect them first and foremost. Of course. Whatever I had to do, I would do that.

Daddy's going to shut up now. Yeah.

If I ever felt like that was really the threat or my wife, for that matter. But I do just think that it's something that's hard to describe. What I do is this is my calling in life. It's just what I'm supposed to do. My greatest heroes, all of them, first and foremost, I was talking to you about before is Ron Paul. He always just told the truth. Even when it was something that would get him booed out of an arena or something that would be very controversial, something that would make him look bad, that was just his thing. Those are the people I admire. I feel like you do that. It's something I admire about you. I feel like Joe Wogen does that.

Yeah, but I'm older, so it doesn't matter. But you got to wonder, the Epstein, I did not take the Epstein murder, which it was a murder, not a suicide, seriously at all. Then I spent a lot of time learning about it and talking to his brother Mark about it, and I think, becoming something of an expert on it, he was murdered. But then you have to think, well, he was murdered not in his bedroom or on West 57th Street. He was killed in the special housing unit of federal lockup in Manhattan, the inner sanctum of the vault.

Yeah.

Okay, then the next, I guess, conclusion would have to be anyone with the power to do that can pretty much do anything in this temporal world, right? That's a pretty formidable... Whoever did that, and we could have theories on it, but I can't prove it, but somebody did it. Those are the people that maybe you shouldn't criticize.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, I mean, there's certainly a point to that. I also, in Having little kids, I have a son, and I do feel an enormous pressure to be an example for him and to be a man. It was a pressure I never felt until I had a son. Maybe that's the sexist in me. I just didn't feel that same pressure with my daughter. My wife is also like, She's so great that I always just felt when our first was a daughter, and I always felt when I had her, I was like, Oh, I was like, Okay, my job is pretty easy, actually. It's very easy. Because at first, I note she's a great role model to her. She's just an unbelievable example of being a great woman. Basically, what I have to do is protect her and provide for her and love her. That's really actually comes very natural to me.

You're not teaching your daughter how to become a woman. Right, exactly.

Not your job. Then when we had a son, it hit me like, Oh, I have to teach him how to be a man, so I better figure out how to be a man real quick, and then I can teach this to my boy.

That's exactly right.

But I think one of the foundational things about being a good man is telling the truth, and even when there's some risk involved in that. I do also feel a pressure that it's like, Well, no, then those are the people or exactly who I should be criticizing and talking about. That's exactly right. Now, as far as... I would just say my only pushback on what you said is that it's not... Yes, they can touch someone in a secure prison. That's certainly something they demonstrate they have the ability to do. Also, I don't know that it was ever supposed to get to that point, and I don't know that we're supposed to know about it, and we're supposed to be having this conversation right now. Clearly, it didn't go exactly according to That's exactly.

That's such a smart point.

That's the silver lining in all of it.

We hear a lot from viewers about big tech censorship, and those reports are more frequent than ever right now. Censorship meaning shutting down your access to information, not lies or misinformation, but true things. It's only the truth that they censor, facts that get in the way of the lies they're trying to tell you. The net effect of this, of course, is interfering in the 2024 presidential elections. That's why they're censoring more than ever now because the stakes are even higher. You're probably not shocked by this, but the specific examples of it do throw you back a little bit. We've seen screenshots and videos showing how we Google search to learn more about the attempted assassination on Donald Trump. Instead, push users to information on Harry Truman or Bob Marley or the Pope. Anything other than the relevant truth, which is that they just shot Trump in the face. They don't want you to know that because it might help Trump. We We've seen examples where Facebook marked true photos of a bloodied and defiant Trump as misleading. Somehow, those pictures were a lie and then limited their visibility. Its AI assistant explicitly denied the shooting ever took place.

This is insanity, but it's at the core of big text editorial policy, which is denying the truth to you in order to control the outcome of this presidential election. That's not democracy. We've seen examples where a generic search for information about Donald Trump was automatically rephrased to show positive stories about Kamala Paris instead. Is there any clear example of election interference? So what do you do about it? Well, Parler has been down this road. Parler is pulled right off the internet for telling the truth. But it's back, and it's reaffirmed its lifelong unwavering commitment to free speech. On Parler, the Bill of Rights lives. The First Amendment is real. You can say what you think because you're a human being and an American citizen and not a slave. On Parler, users can freely They express themselves, tell the truth, express their conscience, and connect with others who are doing the same, and they will not be interfered with. They will not be censored. Design to support a wide range of viewpoints, everyone is welcome on Parler. Parler is committed to ensuring that everybody is heard. And so it's become a place where independent journalism is protected and respected.

It's protected because it's respected. So as this censorship by big tech intensifies, standing up for your God-given right as an American to say what you think is essential. We're on Parlor. That's why we're on Parlor. Our handle is @tuckercarlson, and we encourage you to join us there. You have the right to say what you believe, so does every American, and you can do it on Parlor. Get the Parlor wrap today. If you're trying to figure out what the US will look like next year, 2026, and into the future, worst case is what's happening in the UK right now, it seems like.

Yeah, that's pretty bad.

People getting arrested or Facebook posts?

Yeah. This is why people, especially, particularly the dissidents that I was talking about, you really got to be smart in the way that that you fight these things. I was talking about when there was one of Donald Trump's trials, there was a big group of Trump supporters who were outside protesting. I remember I tweeted that day, and I was like, Hey, dear Trump supporters, if you happen to see a barrel chested man outside screaming, Storm the courthouse, just go ahead and don't storm the courthouse. It's Let's be smart about the way you try to go about this. That's right. This is an asymmetrical conflict. You do not want a conflict. You don't want a conflict in the sense of, Let's storm the capital. How's that going to work out for you? Okay, no, this is just going to be the excuse now, of course, which obviously the thing was an inside job to a large degree.

Can we just establish it? Anybody who screamed, Let's storm the Capitol, I can think of two people who did, who was not arrested, didn't spend time in jail.

Was defended by Democrats in the Congress.

Yes. But he wasn't alone. There's another prominent person who did that as well, as I know you know, didn't get arrested, didn't go to jail. I mean, what can we conclude from that? Yes.

And all of the... And just the stuff where you interviewed the head of- Steve Sun.

Yeah, right.

I mean, just all of the things together, you can obviously see what it was. You don't want a riot. You don't want to do things like that because then that would be an excuse for our government to do exactly what the government in the UK is doing right now. It was cracked down on Facebook posts or whatever. You don't want to fight it that way. But I do believe this country can still be saved or it could be a lot less worse than the possibilities are. The The country has been in very bad points before. Not exactly the same as where we are right now. What's scary about the current position is that it's all of these factors plus the financial realities. They create this weird superstorm of things where it's a cultural phenomenon, a political phenomenon, and then it's also just a debt and derivatives and bonds and things that are all completely unsustainable. But I do think that, like I was saying, we have a big opportunity if we could really just focus and get people who... We have these giant platforms like this show. It's really incredible. I don't think you can overstate how amazing it is that the dynamics have shifted technologically and culturally to the point where, say, someone like...

Okay, so Bill O'Reilly, obviously a very different person than you and was was never a critic of the regime in the meaningful way that you were at Fox News, but he was the number one cable news show at the 8:00 PM hour at Fox News. They fired him, and he largely went away. I know he still got his show. He still got a little bit of an audience, but he's not really involved in the national conversation anymore. Bill O'Reilly was moving the national conversation at one point. For many, many years. His opinion was going to have significant influence over a large portion, and they were able to get rid of him. You, on the other hand, were the number one show on cable news, the 8:00 PM hour. They go, We're going to do the same thing to you, and you're many times bigger than you were. That's a crazy thing. That signals something is totally different about the dynamics.

That's primarily a technology change, I think.

That's certainly a big part of it that now there was a... It also probably has something to do with you having a younger audience than him because Bill O'Reilly's audience was much older, and it's much tougher to get that audience to go over to the internet. I think that's right. They just don't understand it as much.

It's a different moment. Yes. Television is just, it's obviously on its way out anyway. My timing was not that I was in charge of it, but it turned out to be good.

No, I mean, obviously, look, a lot of it was things that you were in control of. A lot of it was things that you weren't. Mostly.

Not in control of. Sure.

But the fact that we've got these alternative platforms now, which really aren't even alternative. I mean, this is the mainstream. You know what I mean, it's not... Brian Stelter ain't the mainstream. You know what I mean? It's you and Rogan and Candice Owens' show is taken off, and there's all these big shows. We've got a new tool in our disposal here. It's like, Part of the thing that's so frustrating to me, watching Trump's campaign so far, it's like, I don't know who he has running this thing, but it does not have the brilliance that Steve Banon had in 2016, where they really figured out. This is the lane you run in. There's so many things about... Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that these audiences, man, need to pressure Donald Trump right now to be better and to run a smarter campaign campaign.

If you're Trump, what do you run on right now?

Well, okay. First of all, it's like you understand that the whole appeal of Donald Trump was that he was a giant middle finger to the establishment who's failed on everything. There was a reason why people wanted a big middle finger to them because they failed on everything. Just look at in the 21st century alone, what has the ruling elite handed the American people? They failed on 9/11. They then used 9/11 to fight a bunch of wars they already wanted to fight that were catastrophic, just absolutely disastrous.

They used it to oppressed their own population. Yes.

They stripped us of all types of basic liberties that we took for granted.

Humiliating us at the airport.

That's right. Yeah. Then they handed us the greatest financial recession in 100 years. They gave us the Obama recovery, which was the most crony recovery built off zero % interest rates and record high government spending. The recovery, essentially, was Wall Street and the suburbs of Washington, DC. Then there's the rise of wokeism, all this insane stuff that they're pushing on people. Now they've given us this disastrous war in Ukraine, all this stuff.

They literally created COVID.

Yeah. Then stripped us of our Civil Liberties in the of fighting something that they created in a lab with our supposed enemy, China.

Like, what?

They created the thing. It allowed, and I don't mean intentionally because I don't actually think that's the case.

I'm not suggesting that.

Who knows? But They allowed the conditions for this to happen and then used that to have the biggest crackdown on the liberties of the American people in our nation's history, and all on the basis of pseudoscience. It was all completely wrong. Then this vaccine, they tried to force into as many people's arms as they could that was totally sold off lies and was actually somewhat dangerous and totally unnecessary for the vast majority of people. Okay, so they've given all of us. The lane here is that you, Donald Trump, represent the repudiation of all of that. That's how you won in 2016, obviously pre-COVID, but that's how you won in 2016. You were a repudiation of the Bushes and the Clintons, not just the Clintons, not just the Democrat establishment, but also the last Republican President. You got on stage and said, he lied us into war. I mean, this is what gave you that energy. This year in the campaign, I mean, look, however you feel about Israel, the fact that Donald Trump has made the whole campaign, his convention is the pro-Israel Convention. Then it's like, oh, Kamala Harris, she's a Palestinian. Chuck Schumer is a Palestinian.

They're all a bunch of left. It's like, well, now what? You're supporting the status quo, which is that America supports Israel? That's what every powerful person in DC believes, all of them, including Kamala Harris, by the way, who's a part of an administration that is completely supporting Israel's war in Gaza right now. What is this weird invention? Then he even frames it as they're all these left wing socialists. He's almost like putting himself in the as the defender of the establishment against the radicals who would overthrow the establishment and what have a revolution of the workers or something like that. None of this is... First off, it's not true. That's not at all what's going on. They're the defenders of the establishment. Exactly. They use some left-wing rhetoric to pit people against each other and create a culture war to distract from their terrible policies. But they're not Marxists. This is so ridiculous. You know what I mean? First of all, look, Donald I'm not saying- It's painful to hear this because it's so true. Well, look, I'm not saying you have to come in. You don't have to be me, okay? And you don't- It's just objectively true.

Well, you shouldn't be me, by the way, because if you were saying what I think, it probably wouldn't get you elected. You know what I mean? Oh, fair. You can come out there and say, We love Israel. We will always defend Israel. Israel is a great country, but we're not funding aggressive wars around the country.

What does that have to do with anything? I just don't see why it's That's not even relevant.

But if you want to be the anti-establishment guy, you can't take the establishment position.

Okay, so that's where you're speaking the deepest level of truth, in my opinion. You are not the incumbent. The incumbents have wrecked the country. Off the Cliff is not too strong a metaphor for what they're doing, and you're opposing that. Hoist the middle finger. You're opposed to that. You are not on the side of the establishment. I don't understand why that's just not hard. I put that on the refrigerator and just meditate on it every day.

Well, I also will say one of the things that was magical about Donald Trump's 2016 campaign, which really, I mean, it can't be overstated how amazing what he did was, however you feel about him. The guy on a shoestring budget went out there and just through use of social media and his bombastic personality, was able to completely dominate the news cycle and took out the Bushes and the Clintons, the two most powerful political families in modern American history. He took both of them out in this crazy upset. Part of the way that he did that was that there were these issues that were overwhelmingly popular that no one else wanted to touch. It was like there was a poker game and there was just pocket aces that everyone's like, I don't want those cards. Then Donald Trump was like, I'll play those cards. Those are very good cards. I'll play pocket. That's exactly right. How about build a wall? Stop the flood of illegal immigration. How about we can have immigration, but we get to decide who comes in and does it. It's wildly popular with people. Open borders aren't popular. It's hard to even find polling on them because it's so unpopular that people won't even ask the question.

They ask, Do you want higher levels of immigration or lower level? But the only polls I've seen, it's single digits, maybe 7% of people support open borders, maybe less than that. But so he is just playing these... Hey, we shouldn't fight stupid wars. It turns out that's a wildly popular position. However, I will say with this, the majority of Americans don't want to support Israel's war in Gaza, but he won't play that card. For whatever reason, maybe it's because he believes it, maybe it's because Jared Kutner convinced him of this, or maybe it's... I don't know. But he's not going to play that card and just say, Hey, we're broke here. We're $35 trillion in debt. That's right. We can't afford to prop up other... Listen, I'm like a strict non-interventionist. I'm like John Quincy Adams. I don't think America should fight anything. If we're attacked, we destroy those people. But that's essentially it. But when a couple of months ago went around in response to Israel killing an Iranian, when they launched those missiles at Israel and a team of nations led by the United States all helped defend Israel. It was Jordan and Saudi Arabia were involved, too, by the way, which goes to show you the real dynamics of that region.

But no one's really complaining about that. Okay, fine. I'm a non-interventionist, but if missiles are coming toward Israel, go ahead, shoot them down. Fine. That doesn't mean we have to help them. That doesn't mean we have to fund them fighting their war. Then also just the fact that there's a foreign country we're not allowed to criticize and people's careers get ruined over that. I'm sorry, listen, if you want to be a America first, what does America first mean? It means we shouldn't have fought the war in Iraq or whatever, something. Okay, who really wanted us to fight the war in Iraq? I'm just saying it's like, no, All these guys, and it's like they come back in now with the Natcon movement. Douglas, Colonel McGregor had a great article about this earlier this summer. He co-authored it in the American Conservatives. But it's like all this new Natcon movement that has all this pro-Israel stuff coming into it. The title of the piece is a Neoconservatism by Another Name. It was a great piece. Everybody should go read it. But it's like, well, who do you think the neocons were who wanted us to fight the war in Iraq?

Like I said last time on here, go read a Clean Break, A New Strategy for Securing the realm by Richard Perle and David Wormser. It was about overthrowing Saddam Hussein for Israel's benefit. I'm not against Israel. I'm Jewish. I like Israel. It's a cool country. The people there are great. I'm just saying that if You're America first, then Benjamin Netanyahu, the guy who testifies before Congress that we should go overthrow Saddam Hussein and launch a regime change war against Iran and launch a war in Libya, that's not your ally. The whole America first thing is that we don't think we should go fight all of these stupid wars.

Unless they help us.

Right. Unless there's some coherent justification for them, at least. But so, okay, so Donald Trump, he needs to just play. There's a few things that he could laser focus on right now, and he should. Donald Trump should be asking himself the question that Hillary Clinton asked herself in 2016, the most obnoxious question ever. But why are you not up by 50 points right now? Donald Trump, why is that? Listen, no Just run on this. No more stupid wars, period. We're not fighting any wars of choice. We are only fighting wars of necessity, which we do not have any right now. Iran, puny little Iran, is a threat to the United States of America. Give me a fucking break. It's absurd. Come on. This is too ridiculous. If anyone should, he should have the courage to say that.

But there's no pushback from anyone on the question of going to war with Iran. That's what I'm saying. So if you have a highly motivated force pushing for something and there's no organized resistance to it, that force will prevail. What I see is a bipartisan push, Republican and Democrat, push toward war with Iran. No even attempt explain why this is in my interest, why I should send my four draft days children to go die in Iran. Yeah. Not even a conversation about that. I feel like unless I'm missing something, we're going to get that war.

Well, the problem, at least It's been a while since I read this, but Scott Horton, who's totally brilliant, you should have him on, man. He was like Justin Ramondo's disciple. Yeah. Just like, he's at antiwar. Com, and he's just IQ off the charts. He wrote the book, Enough Already, which is the book about the war on Terror from Jimmy Carter all the way through Donald Trump. He's currently writing a book on the war in Ukraine, which I got an advanced copy of. It's phenomenal. I can't wait to send this to you. When it comes out, it's so good. It's called Provoked, and it's just the whole story of how at every turn, the West provoked the war with Ukraine. It's so good. I really can't wait for that to come out and people to read it. But what stopped the war in Iran the first time was really the military when Dick Cheney wanted it. I think George W. Bush eventually was like, I've been listening to this guy too much. This was like, by 2007, he had finally figured out, let me stop listening to Dick Cheney because it's just- Dark force. Yeah. But it was really the military.

It was just like logistics. They were just like, Guys, we do not have escalation dominance against Iran. Yes, we're not going to lose the war, but they can target so many American bases over there. It's just going to be a bloodbath. There was one Green Beret who told me off camera, but he told me, he goes, This isn't 10 times harder than fighting a war in Iraq. Fighting a war in Iran is a thousand times harder. This is a whole different ball game. Perhaps that reality will stop it from happening. But even just the rhetoric about being tough on them It's like, why? Why are we even talking like this? Why are we constantly trying to escalate here? It's so simple, and it's popular with the American people. No more stupid wars. Look, even one of the amazing things in how much- Munich and- Right.

Right? I mean, Chamberlain.

There I go again. Being Neville Chamberlain. The only lesson of history ever is Neville Chamberlain. You're always right if you're on the side of aggression, but never if you're talking about- They don't know anything about Neville Chamberlain, actually.

Of course.Of course.

They don't know anything. Or the history of the war at all.

So they always tell you it's the most important election of your lifetime. But of course, this one actually is. That's demonstrable. And it's also because it is so important being censored at every level by the tech companies. So we were thinking about this a couple of months ago, and we thought, why not get on the road live in front of actual people, live audiences, Coast to Coast, a nationwide tour where we can't be censored? That'd be good. It would also be fun. So we're doing it. We're going to be on stage with some of our friends, some of the most fascinating people we know, the most recognizable people we know, responding to what is happening in America this September in real time. It'll be just like the podcast, but it's going to be live. So we're excited to announce our friend Larry Elder is coming to join us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Our friend John Rich will be there with us in Sunrise, Florida. We're adding more stops. We just added another stadium show in Redding, Pennsylvania. We'll be joined on stage by Alex Jones. They tell you what Alex Jones is like. Have you seen him in person?

You should. Make up your own mind. It's going to be fun as hell and interesting and intense, and we hope you will join us. Go to tuckercarlson. Com right now to get your tickets. See you there.

But one of the things that's really interesting that's changed very drastically in a short period of time on the the right in America is that at least what I get now, the talking point for Donald Trump, from Donald Trump supporters, is that there were no new wars. He didn't start any new wars, which is I do love that that's the talking point It's never like he killed all the terrorists or he was so tough where the Democrats are wimpy. His supporters are bragging that he didn't get us into a new war. Now, okay, the reality is that came pretty close, actually, in Iran and Venezuela. He really flirt with new wars.

I was there.

He didn't end the wars that he said he was going to end. There's some criticism, but it's like, look, this is what your own supporters like about you. So just run on that. Then the other thing, man, He feels it, too.

Yeah. He feels it. I mean, one thing I can say about Trump, having talked to him about this a lot, is that that is sincere. He is afraid of nuclear war.

I think his instincts are correct on war in general.

I think that's exactly What's in it for us? What's the point? He's also the only leader I've ever talked to in my life at that level who routinely says, what do all people get killed? I'm not saying he's a super faithful Christian or whatever. I don't know where that instinct comes from, but it's totally real. I've heard him say it many times. When people die and they've got widows and kids and stuff, it's a big deal to kill people.

No, you're right. He's one of the only people at that level. I mean, I've heard some antiwar leftists Well, I think that, but I have no power. Yeah, but at that level of political power, it's like you'd never hear that. That's never even a part of the calculation, it seems. Of course not. Even when Trump was being manipulated by some very not good people that he had around him, to strike Syria, it does seem like most of the reporting was that that's how they got him was with being like, look at these dead kids from these chemical attacks. Oh, the fake boys and guests. Yeah. Then just played on that feeling that he has to be like, you got to do something to stop this.

One of the reasons nobody pushes back against the big picture claims that, for example, Iran is her greatest enemy or that Putin is going to try and overrun Czechoslovakia, this is freaking insane, is that anyone who talks like that puts himself at risk. I would just... Scott Ritter. I'm sure you saw this week at the FBI, rated as how... This is a former arms inspector, US government employee who's been opposing American foreign policy nonviolently for 20 years, and they keep throwing him in jail for it.

Yeah.

No one cares.

Well, there's risks that are attached to opposing the war machine because that's the whole game. Look, I also do recognize that I'm just talking shit into a microphone in that Donald Trump, the pressures and the forces that he has to deal with are certainly things that I don't completely understand. But from what I do understand of this is that I know it's the correct position, and it would be enormously popular with his base. Then there's other things, too, that he should be laser-focused on. Obviously, immigration. It's unbelievable, unbelievable that what he decided was his signature issue, that he ran his campaign centered around, has basically has won the day, and that he was labeled a Nazi for this. Now you got the mayors in blue sanctuary cities all talking about how the influx of migrants is destroying their cities and stuff. So he's got a- Forever. He's obviously got pocket aces right there that you play this card. The other thing is the censorship, which really should be more of a focus of his campaign. I'm stunned that it's not. He's back on Twitter today, by the way. I've mentioned that to you in the first video.

I just saw that on my way over here in the taxi. Smart. He's back on Twitter. So, yeah, he has to be back on Twitter to win this thing. But he got kicked off of Twitter. And not just him. He shouldn't make it just about him. That should almost be an afterthought for his campaign. But all of his supporters. It's in his self-interest to defend these guys. Everybody through 2020, if you were critical of the lockdowns, everybody was getting silenced left and right. And that is, he should make this campaign like a referendum on free speech, and that the only way free speech is going to happen is when I'm in there, and he should threaten the shit out of all of these companies. Facebook backed off.

Like Nikita Khrushchev level, we will bury you.

Yes, that's right. Not Because Khrushchev didn't even mean it with force. He meant like their economic model was going to be better. No, I want force. I mean, with force. Listen, that is the only thing these companies are going to respond to. But if they think that Donald Trump... If Donald to shut you down, bitch. To really say in a believable way, like you say, Hey, Google, I'm going to win this election, which look, as of right now, there's at least a very good chance he's going to win this election. He goes, My sole mission in life every morning when I wake up till I go to sleep that night is going to be to take you guys down unless you stop censoring right now. I don't mean when I get in. I mean, from now until the election. Because you see all this stuff like Elon Musk was posting about it. It's crazy. Where if you search for the shooter, it doesn't come up. Go right to A Blinken. Yeah, right. The latest on Ford's Theater. I saw there was a Reagan, an article on Reagan getting shot. Then if you search Trump, it goes to these Kamala ads and stuff.

I mean, he should be scaring them, which, by the way, they all respond to that. Oh, of course they do. They're scared of government. Well, it's why the censorship regime started to begin with.

Exactly. It didn't exist. It didn't exist. Democrats in Congress pushed them into it.

Well, they hauled them in front of Congress and threatened all of them, and then they go, Okay, yeah, sure.

It's so weak. So turns out, Fauci has COVID. So someone just texted me, and I don't know if this is actually true, but he had six shots I mean, which would make sense. I think that's the recommended amount. Yeah. How do you get... If you've been vaccinated six times against something, how do you get it?

You should have taken eight, I guess. You really just always need more... Always You need more vaccines.

No, but I mean, it's just to your point, leaving aside, I think the vaccine's poison. I've thought that for a long time. Some people are fine when they take it. Other people, including a couple I know, have their lives destroyed by it. But either way, whatever you think of how toxic it is, it clearly doesn't work. Why is it still on the schedule? Why doesn't anyone say that? I just feel like we're living in this moment where the most obvious things go totally ignored.

Yeah, and also just the fact that there is essentially, statistically, zero risk for the vast majority of people from COVID. I mean, at this point, I mean, this was true in the in the original strains.

It's clearly getting the vax and getting the boosters makes you more likely to COVID. I mean, the numbers seem to show that. I never got vaxed. Not to brag, I hate to rub that in people's faces because I'm obviously very proud of it, one of my greatest achievements. But I got COVID once. I've been super healthy ever since then. I never wash my hands, never wear a mask. I'm the dirtiest person you've ever met. I'm happy to breathe the breath of strangers on crowded commercial flights. I never got COVID again. Here's how she's had three times. Biden keeps getting it. What is that? Why does nobody say anything about this?

Yeah, well, same with me. Never got the vax. I had COVID twice, and it was mildly sick, and I would have rather not. Yeah, me too. But whatever, it's fine. Then I know so many people who got it, and some of whom had the same experience as me, got COVID a few times and just were mildly sick. A lot of them got it several more times than I did. Then I do know a few people who developed heart conditions, who developed different problems. Again, it's It's one of those things where you can never, with 100% certainty, trace it to the vaccine, but it seems like the overwhelmingly likely thing.

What we can say is that it doesn't work.

For sure. What we can say with 100% certainty is that the thing was sold on lies and not just like, Oh, they got it wrong. There was never any evidence to suggest that you could not get COVID or transmit COVID. Even in the original, what was it, the Pfizer study where I think it was, if I'm remembering this correctly, it's been a while since I read it, but I think it was in the unvaccinated group, two people died of COVID, and in the vaccinated group, one person died of COVID, and then they extrapolated from that that it's 100% reduction. But there was still a person who died of it in there. This idea that you can't... This was never true. They lied through their teeth. Joe Biden, at the beginning of his administration, made his number one to, by any means necessary, get every single American to take this vaccine. Luckily, with the skeleton of constitutional limited Republic procedures that we still have, the Supreme Court struck down the worst of his mandates, like the OSHA mandate, which would have had every mid-size and large business in America have to fire anyone who is unvaccinated.

All the people that got fired, they've been made whole?

Oh, no, I'm sure they haven't. Man, I know we live in so much stuff happens so quickly that I know going four years ago or three years ago seems like ancient history. But if nothing else, on that alone, the Democrats deserve to lose all power that they have. That they went all in on that, and a lot of Republicans, too.

So, Rogan, who I just want to say for the record, I really love and I revere as a pioneer in media, really more than... Roger Ailes level changed everything. I just always want to say that because I really believe it. But he seemed to endorse Bobby Kennedy. Then he comes out and says, No, I just like Bobby Kennedy. I like Bobby Kennedy, too, for the record. He's a nice man. But I was not endorsing him, Rogan said. I don't really talk about politics that much. I'm summarizing. But if you want to know what I think, just listen to Dave. That was funny and cool that he He said that. But give us your assessment of Bobby Kennedy. What role does he play in this race, if any?

By the way, so when Rogan tweeted that, and I mean, it's just like I couldn't even look on my phone for hours after that because it's just like, and he texted me. It was one of the funniest texts I've ever gotten. Rogan texted me, and he goes, Oh, I didn't even realize that I started up a whole riot on Twitter, but I sent all the looters to your house. Oh, that's pretty good. Which was I was like, Yeah, that is really good. But I was like, I'll take them. I love I like the looters. But also the moment really is, it's because Joe is such a... I know him pretty well. We're pretty good friends at this point, and he is exactly what you say. That's him. I've noticed. Everybody who... If you watch a show, you already know who he is. It's like, he doesn't even think like, I'm going to be making an endorsement today on my show about which candidate I want to throw my people's support behind. He literally just someone asked him a question, and he was just having a moment. He was just like, I do like this Bobby Kennedy guy.

He seems like he's read books about stuff, and he wants to discuss ideas and not just personal attacks. I really like that. I agree with that. I tend to agree with that, too. I also just, by the way, I was just so furious at Trump supporters who were giving Rogan shit for that. Then I just thought it was maybe the stupidest thing Trump's done in the campaign so far was that he posted on Truth Social attacking Joe Rogan for it. It's like, man, is anyone around him to just be like, no, you don't go to war with Joe Rogan?

No, that's the teacher's union. You should be. Yeah, right? Like, what?

But it's also like, even whether he's supporting you or not, that's your teacher's union. Again, like I said before, it's not left versus right. It's dissident versus the regime. This is the guy who cracked the corporate He's the guy who cracked the state's monopoly on information. That is true. Come on, what are you doing here? And he said, also, it's just so removed. It's really just the flaw in Trump is that he said, It'll be interesting to see how much Joe Rogan gets booed at the next UFC event. And you're like, Do you really think Joe Rogan is going to get booed at a U.? Okay. All right. I know that Donald Trump, I know how your mind works, and there's great things about it, and then there's things that hold you back. But I know that you think that since they love you at the UFC event, they're your people, and they'll hate anybody who's not supporting you. But actually, they really love Joe Rogan, and they're not going to be bullying him. It was just so stupid to fight this fight with him. Anyway, the Bobby Kennedy stuff, when he first started running, and I had him on my show, and I was just like, I just loved the guy.

I thought his positions on Ukraine and on the vaccine, I thought were heroic. It was amazing. What was so amazing about his campaign was that he was running as a Democrat, and he's Bobby Kennedy. His name is Bobby Kennedy. He's not like some peripheral Kennedy. He's Bobby Kennedy's son. He's Jack Kennedy's nephew, and Here he is giving Democrats this. It reminded me a lot of the Ron Paul presidential campaigns, where because Ron Paul was such a conservative person and because right after his name, there was are Texas, and he could be against the wars, it was like he gave permission. Exactly. You're allowed to be against the wars. That's right. You could oppose the wars, and you don't have to give up your whole identity. You don't have to be Michael Moore in order to be against this war. No, that's exactly right. You could be a real American Patriot and oppose these wars. In a similar fashion, I felt like Bobby Kennedy was giving Democrats permission to abandon these, which were, look, if you think about it, I said just a second ago that the vaccine was Joe Biden's first, we're all in on the vaccine, and then his second big thing was all in on the war in Ukraine.

This is the Biden administration. He's this total repudiation of Joe Biden, but being the true Democrat, what we're really supposed to be. There was something amazing about his campaign. I understand why he made the move to go independent because there's not a real democratic process in the Democratic Party.

Nor is there much of a constituency at this point for that message. Yes, that's probably true.

I do think that, and me and him, he came back on my podcast to his credit, and we argued about this. I do think it's strained our relationship a little bit. But I could get past not being good on Israel, from my perspective, of course. I could get past I could probably tolerate all the way up to like Vivek Ramaswami's position on Israel, which essentially was he was taking the non-interventionist position, but doing it in a way where it's like, I am not picking a fight with APAC. You know what I mean? I think his answer at the debate was something he said, he goes, I'll tell Netanyahu that I'm going to kill the terrorists on our Southern border, and you go kill the terrorists on your Southern border. I was like, I'm not funding your war, but totally support you doing what you're doing. That's not how I feel about the situation at all. I think it's really horrible what Israel is doing, and it's inexcusable. But I mean, just going around with rabbi Shmouli as your campaign advisor. To me, once I saw that, I was like, I can't. I just can't. It's too much for me.

I do think, again, like I'm saying with Donald Trump, he just pocket pocket aces. You don't want to play these pocket aces. Okay. Democrats, 70% of Democrats oppose this war and want to ceasefire. I think 50% of them consider it a genocide on the Republican side. Obviously, there's a lot of America first people who could be persuaded that we shouldn't be involved in these conflicts. I think Bobby Kennedy had a real chance to make... If he was non-interventionist on this war, I think he would have made some huge waves, and I think that really hurt him. He lost a bunch of people on his campaign staff because he was the anti-war guy. I remember. I had a whole bunch of young anti-war people who were like, Oh, no, I'm not going to be a part of this now.

Where does that leave him now? As a political matter, it feels It feels like there is a significant chunk of people, I don't know how many in the millions, though, who support Bobby Kennedy, who clearly repudiate the priorities of the Biden-Harris administration, don't want to vote for Trump. I mean, my sense is he's taking potential Trump voters.

Yeah, that might be the case. I'm not sure exactly. I don't know. I mean, if Donald Trump... If he were to to drop out of the race and endorse Donald Trump, I think there's a very good chance he could end up in his cabinet and get some type of position out of it if Trump were to win. For sure. I don't know if that's going to happen if he stays in the race the whole time because I think it will be seen as like, well, no, I mean, you can't.

Diminishing returns, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, you just can't do that and then expect the guy to give you a position.

Do you think if Bobby Kennedy endorsed Trump, which is possible, I would say it is possible, do you think that would push Trump over the line? Would that meaningfully help? Most endorsements don't. Would that make a difference?

It might. I don't know. It's hard to tell what endorsements. Do endorsements actually do anything? It's just in general in life. You see Obama and Donald Trump, who are two of the most successful political figures in the last, the most successful political figures in the last 15 years or so. It's not as if their endorsements seem to carry that much weight. It's not transferable like that in the same sense that I love your show. You were the only guy on cable news who I always watched, and I love watching your show on your new network. If you were like, Hey, you got to check out this guy, someone else. You got to check out their show. That would certainly get me to check it out. But it's not as if that's a guarantee that I'm going to love it. I'll check it out, and if I like it, then I'll keep watching it. You can't just transfer the thing that people like about you onto other people.

I've never said a bad word about Rogan. I genuinely like him as a person. I think his show made such a massive difference in the media landscape in an American history. I'm not taking ayahuasca. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I love Rogan. I'm not taking ayahuasca.

It just doesn't work that way. I do wonder, I really don't know the answer, but is Bobby Kennedy, if he were to drop out and endorse Trump at this point, don't people already know they had the option to support Donald Trump? If they're still not supporting Donald Trump, there's probably a meaningful reason why. One of the things that is, I think, probably the reason why none of them will agree to have Bobby in any of these debates is because if they were to, then the topic of Trump's handling of COVID would have to come up. Donald Trump is lucky in a situation. There's always this dynamic in some issues between Democrats and Republicans. For example, when Barack Obama was President, all of the Republicans at that point, their criticism of him was that he was too soft on foreign policy. He won't even say radical Islamic Jihad and dumb Marco Rubio, points like this. Then he totally gets off the hook for his very aggressive foreign policy and the war in Libya and Syria and Yemen and all these wars that he started, by the way, all on the side of Al Qaeda. No one ever gave him any pushback from that.

He never got held accountable or had to answer for any of that because the Republican talking point was he's weak on defense and we're tough on defense. And likewise, with COVID, because the Democrats' whole narrative the whole time was that he's not reacting enough, no one ever really gives Trump a hard time. I guess DeSantis tried to a little bit when he ran against him, but it just fell flat.

I mean, if you just pull this, not to disrupt the flow here, but if you pull the thread a little bit on why were we aligned with Al Qaeda?

Oh, yeah.

Because they're not Shiaids. That's why, because they're not backed by Iran. I've got to say, I'm hardly an expert on Islam, to put it mildly. I'm a Protestant Christian. However, spending a lot of time around the world The Shiaids are pretty sophisticated, actually. I do think that our portrait of what your average Shiaid is like is totally wrong, completely wrong. There are a lot of very cosmopolitan Persians, very cosmopolitan, very pro-western, very smart, very interesting, not savages at all. I'm not endorsing the foreign policy aims of Iran at all or their system or anything, and I'm not endorsing Islam, either branch. But the idea that the Shiaids are like animals, that's bullshit.

That's just ignorant. I mean, look, there's lots of problems even in the Shia world. I mean, there's- Oh, of course. But they're also not our enemies. Well, exactly. Of course. They haven't attacked us, and they haven't attacked Europe.

I mean, there- Even the Houthies? I was taught as a child to hate the Houthies. Were you really? It's also freaking inside. Of course, I never heard of the Houthies. Tell about 20 minutes ago, and they became our historic enemy.

I think essentially what happened, right? Because it's like really Al Qaeda and ISIS are the two terrorist groups that have actually hit the United States of America and Europe. You know what I mean? Committed acts of terror against them. Both were armed and funded by the West at different points. That's pretty appalling when you think about it. But really, what happened is, and I don't know exactly how much of this was the propaganda or how much of it was genuinely believed by people who were pushing it. But certainly the stated propaganda, which was stated when Benjamin Netanyahu testified in 2002 in front of Congress as a regional expert and explained how if you overthrow Saddam Hussein, democracy will sweep the region, this will put pressure on Iran, and then they will have less influence on the region. A lot of these New York Conservatives seemed to actually believe this. Now, I don't know if they did. It seems to me like some of them actually did. It's the dumbest thing in the freaking world to think you would have believed there. You had in Iraq where you have a Shia majority that is held down by a Suni minority, that if you overthrow that government and install the democracy, which means the Shia, right?

Because they're 60% of the country, so they win, that this will hurt Iran was insane. Anyway, so what ended up happening after the Iraq war, after we that toppled Saddam Hussein, was that Iran got drastically more influence in the region. Now, it's possible that people like Dick Cheney and Benjamin Netanyahu and them knew that was going to happen, and then they were like, Well, then we'll just topple Iran next. So it'll all be fine. I don't know exactly. But there's no question. And there was a piece, I believe it was in The New Yorker, called The Redirect in either 2006 or 2007, where basically what was decided was that now that we Iraq backfired so much, and Iran has so much more power in the region, that now we got to go take the Shiaites down a peg. This is really what was behind the attempt to overthrow Bushar al-Assad. And by the way, this, not overthrowing our democracy and not putting bounties on US soldiers head in Afghanistan or whatever the other lies that they made up about Vladimir Putin. The real crime that Vladimir Putin committed was he denied the US regime change in Syria.

You could look at the way Vladimir Putin was talked about before Syria versus after Syria. It is so stark. George W. Bush said he looked into Vladimir Putin's eyes and he was a good Christian, and Hillary Clinton had her reset button. It wasn't until he denied the American war machine, a regime change, that he became Adolf Hitler. He's hell-bent reconstituting the Soviet Union and all this other crap. That's really what it all started.

He savedAssad. Apparently, he was close to Hafez Al-Assad, Shah Al-Assad's father, and Assad called him and said, I need your help, and he dispatched troops immediately, which, by the way, whatever you think the geopolitical balance or whoever side you're on, that is the key to long-lasting alliances is defending your allies with troops when they ask you to. The Biden administration has not done that to legit allies, whatever.

Well, also, and he was motivated to do it, I think, because he didn't want to see ISIS over Damascus, which was a real threat at that point. They were driving around in Toyota trucks.

And murdering all the Christians. Yeah.

In the most barbaric brutal way.

Crucifying the Christians. But you're not allowed to notice that or something. And Tulsi Gabbard is anti-American for caring what happens to the Christians of Syria. I think we're fast approaching a period where the people who've lied to us in all these different subjects should just be quiet. Be quiet. Is there so much demand that... I'm sorry, David Frum or whomever. You're But your opinion is just not even morning, Joe. Why are we allowing people- Yeah, it's like you've got everything wrong.

Truly. But I think I heard you use the analogy or metaphor, but It's like the old once they see your face, they have to kill you. That's right. Or once you see their face, they have to kill you. Yeah, once the kidnapper drops his mask. There is this feeling, and I do think this is also part of what freaks them all out about Donald Trump, is that Okay, so first of all, like we were saying before, he's leading a movement of really every tough man in America pretty much loves Donald Trump. Maybe not every, but the overwhelming majority of tough men in America love Donald Trump.

The non-Tim Walsh ones.

Yes, that's right, and the well-armed ones, including many people in law enforcement and the military. Yes. So he's got that. Then he's running a campaign that is very specifically pointing a finger at DC and saying, These guys screwed you over. He's also like a wild man. He can't control what he says. It's the most charming and frustrating part of Donald Trump. You know what I mean? If he He wanted to, he couldn't control himself. You know what I mean? He's going to say it. It's going to come out of his mouth. Then he's saying things on the campaign trail in 2016. He says it in this sloppy Trumpian way, but he would be like, Obama created ISIS. Obama did that, which is not exactly true, but there's a lot of truth to it. It's like, Well, no, he didn't. But he did knowingly fund and arm them. That is Treason, literal treason. That is exactly what treason is, the definition.

Especially if he wasn't doing it on behalf of the United States.

Well, right. Well, exactly. Now, if you imagine, okay, now this wasn't just Obama who did this. I mean, this was Brennan in Operation Timber Sycamore. This was the plan. John Kerry is even on tape talking about how they knew. They saw ISIS was getting the weapons and stuff, but they were like, Hey, we'll just keep promoting this myth of the moderate rebels, which is so ridiculous. Then that'll put pressure on Ahmad to step down. This is how we're going to get our regime change war. Then ISIS went and invaded Iraq. They weren't supposed to do that. Then Obama had to go back into Iraq to kick them out. But the point is that this is actual treason. Like, giving material aid and comfort to the enemy. Like, Al Qaeda in Iraq and in Syria is getting weapons from America. That is treason. Now you got this guy who who's essentially calling you out for treason, who might be the President of the United States of America. Like, the punishment for treason is the death penalty. I do think, I think Donald Trump himself didn't even realize what enemies you're making when you say so and how much power they have.

Who's the last President who fired the head of the CIA and made a big thing about how he was going to smash it into a million pieces?

What happened to him?

He took a limo ride. Through Dallas, right? It's true. It's like Donald Trump, I think, was totally naive about... He knew there was a swamp that needed draining, but I don't think he knew what was in that swamp.

He wasn't watching Schumann and Rachel Maddo show. Right.

I do think being in the world of business gave him a lot of correct instincts, but it's like, no, man, there's just nothing like this. Government isn't the business world. Government is the criminal organizational organization world, which he probably had a little bit of experience in real estate developer. Sure.

The Painter's Union or whatever.

Running casinos and stuff like that. I'm sure he's been around, but not like this, man. That's nothing compared to... You're talking about the CIA That is a whole different piece.

These are not paving contracts. This is control of the world.

Yeah. There was just all of this got this tremendous reaction, and he's still dealing with that.

I'm a little bit confused that for For two years, we were told that the vanguard of the fight for democracy was unfolding in Eastern Ukraine. It mattered much more than anything in our stupid, meaningless lives here in the United States. That's why all good people wore the blue and yellow lapel pin and put the little flags in front of their houses in Napa and all that. Then one day, we just stopped hearing anything about Ukraine. What was that?

Well, it was all built off lies. It's been a disaster. All of these wars, and it's not gone at all the way it was supposed to. I mean, remember, there was a period where Joe Biden, at the very beginning of the war, was just with sanctions, we're going to defeat Russia. We're going to destroy the RuPaul and make everyone in Russia poor, and that'll be so great. We wouldn't even have to send in weapons. Then, of course, we had to. Of course, just all the lies, Ukraine is winning, Ghost of Kiev, all these crazy, just obvious lies. Ultimately, you're at a point where, yeah, you don't really want to talk about that there's nothing you can point to and and brag about. But isn't it crazy? I did a debate on this topic on Breaking Points. That was a great show. You've been on with Crystal and Sagar.

Yeah, I know Sagar well. Yeah.

Oh, that's right. He used to work for you, right? Yes. Yeah, he's great. I love that guy. Yeah, I do. I did a debate on that show, and I was talking about how it was crazy for all these people who have the Ukrainian flags and we care so much about Ukraine and all of this stuff. It's like, do you recognize that we hold all the chips? The United States of America holds all of the chips. We could get this war to stop in almost any way we wanted to if we want to just play our ultimate Trump card, which is that we'll leave NATO. I mean, there's no reason for us to be in NATO anyway.

It totally makes no sense.

I know. I know you've talked about a bunch. It's like this was started after World War II because Europe had been totally destroyed. America was the only advanced country that was left standing and hadn't had their homeland wrecked by the thing. Then there's this Soviet Union, and so these guys can't defend themselves. We have to work on this deal that we're not going to let you invade Western Europe or we'll come to their defense. Now it's like Europe is rich, America is $35 trillion in debt, and, oh, yeah, the Soviet Union doesn't exist. What's the point of this thing being here? Vladimir Putin would do almost anything to get that to happen, to get America to leave NATO. It would be nothing but good for us. We just wouldn't be subsidizing other rich countries defense. He could take it as a huge victory. You know what I mean? You could get almost anything you want. If you guys care about Ukrainians and Ukrainians dying so much, why not? Why not just make this deal? We could do it right now. I mean, we're not get in Crimea back to Ukraine. That's not going to happen.

But who cares? You know what I mean? You could get the end to the war immediately if you were to do this.

You know how many jobs now occupied by people with no skills whatsoever, totally pointless people, pure parasites on our economy and culture would be lost if we get rid of NATO?

Yeah, well, that's the problem.

That is 100% the problem. That's the issue. It's why not get rid of the energy Department or the education Department? I mean, they've served no purpose other than self-perpetuation.

They've made all of those areas much worse than they were. Of course. It's unbelievable. I mean, the state of education in America, what did it get a lot better since, was it Jimmy Carter had created the Department of Education? It's like, what? And of course, it's Because this model doesn't work. It should have been the one lesson of the 20th century. That model doesn't work. Centralized control does not work. This is why all of those countries failed and continue to fail everywhere it's tried. And Now we're doing it and we're failing.

Because it benefits the few. Let me circle back to the beginning of the conversation here at the end. You haven't been here in two and a half months, maybe?

Mm-hmm.

A lot has changed. All of your core suspicions have been confirmed, I think, by the assassination attempt and the subsequent coup. Where does that leave you? We just spent a couple of hours talking about how bad things are and about all the signs that they're ominous signs that they're about to get much worse. Does that make you feel afraid, hopeful, excited, a combination?

Yeah, probably a combination, I would say, which, by the way, we didn't even really get into the coup, but it is pretty crazy how much of a blatant coup we just watched. I've just seen people like Democrats on social media and stuff, and they'll call people like us out, and they'll be like, Well, first you said the guy was too senile to run, and now you're saying it was a coup when they You're like, Yeah, both are true. I don't know what to tell you. The guy is clearly senile, and also he is still the President of the United States of America, and there's a process here.

They'll say... It's just... The one thing I can't get over is not that people disagree with me, I assume people are always going to disagree with me. I'm often wrong, so it's okay to disagree with me. What I can never metabolize, accept, deal with is people's willingness to just say anything. You just move the goalpost. Because it's expedient. The capacity for lying among certain people just blows my mind. You tell Joe Scarborough, you got to say this because there's some material advantage to you. He will say it no matter what it is, and all that way. It's like, how would you describe threatening a man until he agrees not to run for president again and then installing somebody without a vote.

That's a coup. And by the way, it's totally unclear. I would say, we don't know for sure, but I would say the likelihood is that he didn't ever agree to it until after the letter was out. I mean, look, it is so... You cannot overstate how bizarre it is that a few weeks before the Democratic Convention, when Joe Biden had already gone through a couple of weeks of all these calls for him to step down, at every single turn said, No, I've made up my mind. I am not stepping down. It's me versus Trump, so get used to it. I beat him last time, and I'll beat him again this time. That morning, the morning that the letter comes out, was Sunday. His surrogates are going on the Sunday talk shows and saying, enough with this noise.

Like an hour before the letter comes out.

They go, enough of this. He's made up his mind. He's running. Even after Pelosi and Schumer meet with him, even after the 90 million or whatever is held back from his... He's like, no, I'm good. Then you're telling me, the sitting president of the United States of America, a few weeks before the convention, is announcing that he won't be seeking re-election. This is not done in an address to the nation. This is done on personal stationery and just tweet it out. Then in a separate tweet, he endorses Kamala Harris, and it's not for days later that we hear from the president. That is crazy. I know so many crazy things are going on that it's almost easy to not appreciate how crazy that one But it... And you could say, Oh, he had COVID, or whatever. They just get up, I don't know, put on one of those masks that you guys pretended worked for so many years and go... He can even be an edited video. It doesn't have to be live. I know he stumbles a lot or whatever. It could be two minutes. But how do you not address the American people about that?

It really seems like, and of course, Seyhersh had that reporting on the call with Obama, where they threatened they had Kamala Harris on board, We're going to invoke the 25th Amendment. But my suspicion is that that phone call happened. The Schumer and Pelosi strongarming didn't work. Obama comes in, We're going to remove you from office, and this will be your legacy. Then the letter is tweeted out already, and it's presented as a fait accompli to him. It's all over. Then eventually, he goes, I have- But what does it say?

I mean, if the sitting president of the United States, purportedly the most powerful man in the world, doesn't have enough power to run again for the job he currently holds, he's not allowed to. None of it's real. The presidency is not real. The president doesn't hold the power. I mean, they just showed us that. People are not thinking this through. Our system is voluntary. All systems are. How do they expect us to accept the election results, abide by those results, pay our taxes? How do they expect us to obey when the system has been revealed as illegitimate?

Yeah, well, the only way would be some type of escalation of Force. Force. I mean, that's the only way to do it. I will say, though, that much like when the Soviet Union collapsed and was largely peaceful, and was a really amazing thing. It was very peaceful. Now, what happened in the years following it was not good, and that didn't need to happen.

No, but they pulled their nuclear weapons out of all their satellite states. They dissolved the Warsaw Pact. I mean, that happened, by the way, 33 years ago this week. Oh, yeah. I was on my honeymoon.

There were people at the top who wanted to not let it happen. No, escalate the force and don't let this happen. Put down these revolts like they had done previously. And ultimately, they just lost. And enough people were just like, No, just let them go. That's not working. So you hope that something like that can happen in the United States of America. And that doesn't mean a national divorce type thing, which is something that has become a popular thing that some people advocate for. But it does mean some type of decentralization of power and Washington just having much less power than it currently does have. I think that it is, and I said this to you last time, it's the great case for optimism, is that all of this government tyranny relies on propaganda, and the propaganda is being broken at an unbelievable rate. Things that would have seemed unimaginable very recently in my adult lifetime, not generations ago, but just years ago. We're seeing that now. People are waking up in a very profound way. I mean, it really is. It is all fake. And more and more people are aware of that. If you zoom out and go from my mother's, when my mother was my age, to me being this age, it is unbelievable how much more people understand that this is all fake now.

You're right. Propaganda is the key. Joseph Gerber is not to make everything a Nazi reference, but it was 5,4, crippled, never fired a gun in his life except into his own head in the end, never commanded an army. He was the political chief of Berlin, but he was the propaganda chief, and therefore, he was the pivotal person in the Nazi government. He was because he was in charge of people's brains. I'm not comparing anyone to the Nazis. I hate Nazi references in general, but that's just true. Propagand is everything, actually.

Yeah, and it's the most powerful thing to control. It's more powerful than controlling the laws or the money or the military.

Yes, that is absolutely right.

You control what people think. You control narratives. It's amazing. I mean, look, it's still very effective. Oh, I know. It's not nearly as effective as it once was, but it is You see it when people get taken over by the propaganda, it's such a bizarre thing. I mean, it's like talking to someone and there's no soul there when they just repeat back the propaganda to you or something. January sixth was an insurrection. You're like, I'm not having a conversation with you. I'm having a conversation with what Don Lemon convinced you you're supposed to believe.

Do you know people who've fallen for that?

Yeah. I mean, no one in my close circle or anything like that. Of course not.

But what do you I know I'm so far afield again, but I don't know the answer to this. What distinguishes someone who falls for the crudest propaganda, January sixth was an insurrection, Don Lemon smart, whatever the lie is, from you? Some of these people are smart. I mean, it's not just an IQ difference.

Oh, no, it's not an IQ difference. Oh, I know. There's people far smarter than me who fall for it. Oh, me too. Yeah, no question about that. So what is it? I don't completely know. I think there's something about there's It's like human beings, we're pack animals, and that's very at the core of us. You stay within the pack because out here is death. Yes, 100% you start to death. You stay in here, right. There's a personality type that certain people have. Again, it is not about being left or right. It's not at all. But there's something where people have... There's people who I disagree with on a lot of issues. But Alex Berensen is very willing to go outside the pack. I totally agree. He's like, Okay, you want to have all these arrows come at me? Okay, fine. Glenn Greenwald is very willing to do it. I think you're very willing to do that.

Berensen is such a great example because I really like Berensen. I text them all the time. But But I just absolutely disagree with him on a lot of issues. But I will never stop.

During COVID, he was so great. I mean, his sub stack was cathartic to read during COVID.

I totally agree. He is smart. Berrandson is smart. He's a good reporter. I think he's a really nice guy. But really, His indispensable quality was bravery. Yeah, that's right. That's what made him different. That's it.

Because look, he was in. You were in and you're in the New York Times, you're in all this, and you're going to risk all of that just to be right about something. It doesn't even make sense when I say it out loud. You're like, Why would you do that? It's a terrible calculation. No, it's totally true. But there are some people who just do... But when you... So many of the people who, and this is something, I don't say this like attacking right wing America. It's something to be humble about. But in 2002, in the run up to the war in Iraq, so many of these people who are great now about seeing through all of this just knew it as a certainty. That obviously Saddam Hussein has nuclear weapons, and he clearly was involved in 9/11. He's going to hand these nukes that he doesn't have off to the terrorists he's not friends with, and they're going to nuke Kansas unless you go support, overthrowing him. They just knew that as a matter of fact. Essentially, what are you, some type of wimp if you don't agree with them on that. That's totally true.

They didn't even realize that they were doing the exact same thing as some 20-year-old who tells you about climate change. Totally right. You're just repeating lies that someone else put into your head. You are a puppet right now, you know what I mean? And you don't even realize it. But it was like, I don't know, that was the culture they were in. That was the world they were in. They saw these towers get hit. And what are you, a pussy? No, you were going to go do something about that. It's People's sense of identity is very important to them. I remember, okay, one time, I have a younger brother who's much younger than me. He's 13 years younger than me from my mother's second marriage. He's great. Unbelievable kid. I love him to death. I think he was three years old, so I was 16. I was watching a Knicks game. I'll never forget this. Three-year-old kid, and he comes over to me, and he was asking about it, and I was like, here, come watch the game with me. We're sitting on the couch. He's three. We're watching a Knicks game, and he looked at me and he went, Well, which one is me?

I was like, What do you mean? Which one is you? I was like, Oh, we're rooting for the team in the blue shirts. Then he accepted that. Okay, that's... But I just remember always thinking there's this... It's so profound that that's what's in us. It's like, Okay, you want me to get into this- Oh, it's totally-projected abstraction. So who am I? What defines me? That's so important to people. It's right at the core of everything. It's like, who am I as a person? What's my identity? I think that for... Look, you saw this with, broadly speaking, liberal America. Well, during COVID, it's like their identity, their whole identity is that they're the scientific people. You guys are the backwards rubes who believe in superstition and religion, but we believe in science and reason. This is what makes us better. That's their identity. So once you tell them that, it's like, Well, the science says this, it was so easy to get them in. It's why it's so easy to get them in on climate change. Then with more conservative America, their whole identity is that they're the tough ones who defend the country, who aren't wusses, who will defend the Constitution.

As soon as you fed them a narrative that gave them that identity, it was so easy to fool them with all this other stuff. I do think that's a big part of... They're very good. That's what the propagandists do at their best, is they play off your sense of self, your identity.

It's moral judo. Yeah. They use your body weight against you. They take your momentum and pull you. Exactly. Way past where you thought you would be.

But more and more people are waking up to that stuff now, and so that's good.

You've had a big effect on a a lot of people, including me, and I appreciate Dave Smith. You're coming.

I mean, Tucker, I could do this all day long with you. Good.

Well, I hope you come back before we're both arrested. That would be nice. We can say once again, Man, it's only been two and a half months, but everything's different.

Yeah, I hope. I mean, even if we could just share a cell once we get arrested, that would be real through. You could just continue this on and on.

I will never submit. Thanks, man.

Thank you.

Thanks for listening to Tucker Carlson show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson. Com to see everything that we have made, the complete library, tuckercarlson. Com.