I am genuinely honored to introduce Megan Kelly, who I could talk for an hour about, actually, since I know Megan Kelly really well. I would just say a couple of things about Megan Kelly. Megan Kelly, she was at the company that we once worked for. It was a TV company based in New York City on sixth Avenue. I got there after being fired from a couple of different jobs. I was totally powerless and disgraced. I've had many firings, but I was in the middle in between firings at the time. Megan Kelly was the dominant person there because she was the most talented person in the building, just pure talent. Megan Kelly, for reasons that I've never even asked her, I don't know the answer, went out of her way to help me. To such an extent, I didn't even really know Megan Kelly, but Megan Kelly went out of her way, and I mean out of her way, like at risk to herself, in some meeting, I don't know that guy. He's a buffoon. No, he's good. You should promote him. She Again, I don't know why she did that. Well, I do know why, actually, because Megan Kelly is actually a really decent person, which I shouldn't even have to say, but if you're a lawyer on TV, which she is, you would not want to be cross-examined by Megan Kelly at all.

That would be a nightmare. You would lose. Actually, you'd probably get the death penalty for whatever the offense. I'm just laid on my electrical bill to San Quentin. She's tough. It's really striking to see what truly graceful and gracious person she is. I've just lived that firsthand. She's also just the smartest and the coolest. With that, ladies and gentlemen, Megan Kelly.

This is cool. Wow, this is so beautiful. Thank you.Thank.

You for that.Can I say one other thing about Megan Kelly? Before I let her Let Megan Kelly talk. I'm not going to say much. If you spend your life in a studio, it's just so interesting, you have total control over everything. Most people who do that really don't like live events. 99% in fact, the most talented people you know on television and radio do not like to be in large rooms full of people because they're uncomfortable around people. Megan is the exception to that, and I think it just shows her love of people, and I just really noticed that today.

Can you believe he didn't know why I kept telling them, Tucker is good. Trust me. He's the only one who doesn't understand that. It was obvious to anyone with eyes and ears what a star he was. Whether it was Weekend Fox and Friends or in the prime time of Fox, always been a believer.

It was not obvious to everyone, I will say that, including some of my relatives. But thank you so much.

It was obvious to the smart ones.

Okay, so I'm at lunch today. We land, we're in Tulsa this morning, land here, land with In 30 minutes, I'm at a barbecue place behaving like an animal, over eating, all kinds of stuff on my shirt. I really disgraced myself. I am going to tell Casey Means about this when I see it. It was disgusting. I have to get under control. But this couple came out to me and they're like, Oh, we just came from Dallas because we heard Megan. I said, We're going to Dallas. She's like, Yeah, but we came to see Megan. Okay, cool. They're like, You have to ask Megan about Taylor Swift. No, this happened to me. I know. I'm only I'm dimly aware of who Taylor Swift is because I don't have a TV. Okay, so I don't go on the internet much. Then I come here and someone's like, Are you going to ask her about Taylor Swift?

I've got thoughts.

It's a sincere question. Why are people telling me to ask you that? Do you think Taylor Swift, who apparently endorsed Carmela Harris just the other day, will have... I know. I'm not here to endorse Taylor Swift, trust me. Will this have an effect? What's the significance of this?

I don't know whether it will have an effect. Supposedly, some 350,000 people have rushed to some website to register to vote or to express interest in potentially doing that. But young people don't generally vote. I don't think people who at this point in the election cycle had not registered to vote are not going to do it because of Taylor Swift. But let's set that to the side. Screw you, Taylor Swift. That's how I would like to begin. This woman has got how... She's a billionaire. I saw her amazing mansion in Rhode Island. I went to some hotel there, and there it is up on a cliff. You've never seen a more beautiful home. It's one of, what, 20? She's got so many gifts, thanks to all of you. Thanks to your daughters, who you probably had to drag to her concert, and you want to make your daughter happy, and so you didn't. It's true, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. How does she thank this nation? She turns around. Not only does she pick aside, in a hotly contested presidential election, alienating at least half of her fan base. But she says the reason she's voting for Kamal Harris is because of Tim Walsh's LGBTQ stance.

Do you know what Tim Walsh has done on the LGBTQ front? Let me tell you what's going to happen. Here's what's going to happen. A little girl sitting in Wisconsin who's maybe Maybe on the spectrum, maybe has acne, maybe is a little heavyset, maybe feels upset because the parents are getting divorced, something like that, is going to find herself down a rabbit hole on Reddit. Her parents aren't going to know because they're getting a divorce and they're not focused on her right now. She's going to spend hour after hour on that thing, and Reddit's going to tell her she's actually a boy. She's going to get sucked into this gender cult, and she's going to say, Mom and dad, I want puberty blockers into cross-sex hormones, which will sterilize her and deprive her of all sexual pleasure for the rest of her life. They're going to say, No, you're a girl. She's going to say, But I want top surgery, this benign thing, this double mastectomy where I'll have tubes coming out of me and I'll never breastfeed a child. I want that, too, because I'm a boy. They're going to say, No. She's going to go to a judge in Minnesota, and because of Tim Walsh, the court will take custody of her, use the Medicaid funds in Minnesota to provide her all of those things, chop off her breasts, sterilize her with the puberty blockers under the cross-sex hormones.

When this girl inevitably comes to the conclusion that she didn't want any of this, that it only added to her problems, which were the divorce and the acne and the puberty and not any trans issue, who is she going to go to then? This is all because of Tim Walsh. That's what Minnesota is doing right now to little girls and boys, taking custody away from the parents so that they can have these procedures without any loving parent there to help. That's what Taylor Swift just endorsed for your children. So screw you, Taylor Swift.

First of all, thank you for saying that. Pardon my ignorance. This is one of those topics that's so upsetting to me. I have too many children, I think. They can take custody? Yeah.

There's a law that Tim Wall signed that says the court can take jurisdiction, which in this instance means custody, over minor children who are not getting the gender affirming care, which is a lie. There's only two sexes. Gender's bullshit. There's men and there's women. One cannot become the other. He signed a law saying that they can take jurisdiction over minor children who are not being affirmed by their children and get all of those procedures done outside of any connection. Your parents will have nothing to do with it. They won't have access to you.

That's so dark. Yeah. I have to say, I look at you were describing how Rich Taylor Swift is. Why isn't she happy?

Good question. I mean, listen, what is she? 32? I don't know what she is. She's young. She's never had a relationship that works. She makes a lot of money off of writing about it. That could be part of the problem. For the reasons you were just discussing, when you find true love, when you have somebody who loves you unconditionally, warts and all, that's everything. She hasn't been able to find it. She's made a lot of money off of it. I think she travels from city to city without the grounding that you have, that I have, that hopefully all of you have. Maybe she's feeling untethered. Maybe she's feeling empty and lost. Maybe she wants other people to make the similar decisions in life as she has because people feel validated when you do that. I think that's why she's misleading these kids. She doesn't have the core that you should have before you ever advise somebody on electoral politics.

I totally agree. I completely agree.

It's a very dark day, and I feel like she betrayed all the moms and dads who took their little girls there and fostered a relationship of fandom, not knowing that she would then turn around and try to trans your kid or bless the man who's doing it, whether he's the Minnesota governor or, God forbid, the vice president.

Well, you just made such a deep point, almost offhandedly as you do, almost parenthetically, but that she doesn't have the grounding to be advising on a question like this. Would you buy real estate from a homeless person, or would you take investment advice from Bernie Madoff? Why would I ever take an important piece of life advice from someone whose life is a disaster?

If she wants to tell me how to sing the song, okay, I guess I'll listen to that. But I think it was a comedian, Andrew Schultz, who said, We'd just be so much better off if people would just do the thing they're supposed to do. If the actor would just act and the singer would just sing and the basketball player would just play basketball. I don't want her life advice on anything, but what's so pernicious about this is that we've inadvertently—thankfully not yours truly, but most parents with tween girls have inadvertently fostered a relationship between this person and their daughters and allowed her to become a role model to them. Now She takes advantage of that by looking at these young girls saying, vote Harris Walsh, because you can get an abortion at any age and at any term under them, because you can turn into a boy under them, because unlike what they said at the debate, you can try to abort your baby and it can be born on the table, and we can just let it sit there without any medical care under Harris Walt. That is a thing, notwithstanding the fake fact check by ABC News.

It's sick.

It's hard to see, though, Taylor Swift in isolation. I'm just guessing here, but if she's really in her early 30s and she's made a billion dollars in the music business, I don't have a ton of her albums myself. I can't even assess her music, but she's the product of a system, and she's got to some large extent be acting on behalf of that on the American entertainment system, which is to some extent a propaganda system. This is an indictment of a whole industry.

The problem with big movies and big rock and roll or records or pop is a lot of people who are drawn to those industries are empty inside to begin with. We saw a flash of this in a brilliant moment at the Oscars this year, where, to his credit, Robert Downey Jr. Got up there and he won for best actor, I think, or supporting one or the other for Oppenheimer. The very first thing he said was, I'd like to thank my terrible childhood. Some people are self and they get through that. The vast majority are not and do not. They go to these industries like becoming a pop singer or becoming a Hollywood actor because they're seeking fame and to fill a void. They think that these artifices are going to do If I can just become rich, if the people will just love me, if people will give me a golden statue, somehow I'll feel validated, like I matter, like none of the bad stuff that happened to me is consequential. What they inevitably My mind is it fills no voids. It only adds to their problems. All the emptyness is still there. This is what happened to Matthew Perry, among many, many others.

I think I don't want to psychoanalyze Taylor Swift, but I don't think this level of fame is healthy for anyone. We've started to make her some an idol, and that's sick on our part. I try to counterprogram this with my kids all the time. I'm saying, She's a singer. She sings some good songs. That's it. She's not someone to look up to. Let this be a lesson to us all, that we don't foster that a relationship with a stranger who's chosen to go into one of these very damaging industries because then they've got your kid in the palm of their hand and they can use that power for evil.

That is so wise. Everything you've said is really wise. I wonder why. I mean, you've just said directly or by implication more about what it takes to become fulfilled, what a full life actually looks like that I've heard from any leader in our country, maybe ever. Why does no one ever get honest with people? No one in a position of authority or with a big audience about what it actually looks like to live a happy, fulfilled life.

Oh, wait, because we could have added politicians into our list of the people who go to Hollywood and the people who go into the rock and roll industry to become famous just as easily. I mean, this is one of the problems with our politicians today. I was talking to the guys from the All In podcast, you know them, and they were saying, Name a politician you like. I was like, You're going to have to play the Jeopardy Sounds. It's really hard to think about somebody. Yes, there are some, but you got to really think about it because we've created this congressional system that produces Kardashian's. It's people who want to become famous. Look at AOC. She doesn't want to govern. She wants to be famous. That's what she wants. She's on Instagram all the time looking at herself, which is just the vainest app. It's just the vainest of the apps because she wants you to be looking at her. Half of them are posting pictures of their bottoms. Who wants to look at anyone's ass? Anyway, that's-They're using it as-Please don't answer that. They're using it as a springboard for attention. They don't actually want to govern us.

They want to parlay it into money and use all their followers and feel like they matter with their woke ideology because it's mostly on the left. There's some on the right. That's why we have no one we can look up to. There's no one in politics you should look up to. We really need to look outside of it for our leaders.

What's interesting, you don't have to this question if you don't want, but just given the pretty amazing trajectory of your own life, you're a lawyer in DC, like an actual lawyer, not a TV lawyer, and then you become the most famous person in television, that actually happened to you. You became incredibly famous. I don't think you set out to be. You were a lawyer. Did that experience shape the views that you just articulated?

Yes, because I never was attracted to Fame. If anything, it was a downside becoming more popular in what we do. It's a blessing in some ways because people follow you and they show up, and this is a blessing. But the downside is you lose your anonymity, you lose your privacy, and it's just another false idol. You really can't fall into that because otherwise, you become an ugly person. You truly become an unattractive person. As I became more well known, Doug and I started to get invited to more fancy things, especially after that debate with Trump. The left loved me. Remember that? They started inviting me to all these fancy parties, and I was like, Sure, I guess I'll go to this huge Hollywood party and meet all these A-list stars and see what that's like. I'll tell you what it was like, torture. It was torture. I felt around them the same you guys would feel around them. I didn't know what to say to them. I had absolutely nothing in common with them. It seemed like a bunch of vapid empty people who only wanted to sneak a peek around me to who else was there or over there in the mirror.

There was absolutely nothing of consequence to discuss with anyone there. They're obsessed with their latest movie or what role they might get nominated for. All I could think was, where is the accountant who planned this thing who will talk to me? Like a real person. I didn't enjoy it, and I recognized that it was false, that it wasn't real. I was always very glad that I had Doug with me for these events because he's very grounded, very normal. I would say one of the biggest blessings of that period of my life ending was getting away from those people.

You didn't feel... It's just interesting because a lot of people who go through different periods in their lives, they're always hoping to get back to the Oscar party.

Oh, God, no. Oh, God, no. No, I mean, I went... Oh, this is another one. I went to the Met Gala, Anna Wintour. I mean, you could freeze ice on her ass. She had me meet with at her tower downtown before this event. She thinks she's a head of state, this woman. I'm walking down the hallway to go into her suite, and you've got 10 guys with the Janet Jackson headset, and we're We're walking, we're 10 feet, we're 5 feet. I'm like, No one wants to kill Anna Wintour, so just stop. You get in there and she's, of course, eating two peas because she has absolutely know you're not allowed to have any body fat in fashion. Then Then she starts lecturing me about politics, trying to figure out whether I'm pro-life, trying to figure out whether I'm pro-cho. I'm like, What business is of yours? Anyway, it was painful, and the Met Gala was downright painful. All these celebrities who are all over the Oscars and these Academy Awards and Golden Globes lecturing us on how to be better people are in the ladies' room, snorting coke and dry humping one another while their spouses are out there, with my own eyes and my husband's, all names you would know, smoking in the Met, where some of our most precious works of art are absolutely, totally disrespectful.

And what I realized is these people are disgusting. And what I want to do is go home right now and talk to my neighbor who's a fireman and the lady across the street who's a teacher and touch grass and get back to actual people.

A lot of people seem to have been reaching the same conclusion recently, which is that being a little healthier, being spiritually grounded, eating right, paying attention to nature, all of those really matter. Sleep It takes up a big portion of your day.

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Well, that is such It's a vivid picture. I've heard you report on the Epstein story many times, and you never seem shocked. Is this why?

No, I mean, there's a reason that that stayed quiet for so long. There are a lot of people who are still quaking in their boots, scared to death about what may come out. I said this on my show, and I'll say it to you all, too. It's not that Jeffrey Epstein is alive. I want to clarify that, at least not to my knowledge. But you will be hearing from Jeffrey Epstein, I think, at some point in the next twelve months. I know the person who is going to bring it to you, and I've heard the thing myself. This is not BS. You'll see.

Without divulging the details that you can't divulge, and I should just say I didn't know what to think of that story, and I got to know his brother pretty well, and I think he was murdered. That's my view. Yeah, of course. I never thought I would think that, but I do think that. But how big is that story, do you think?

The one that I'm talking about?

Well, the Epstein story itself.

I think it's got tentacles everywhere. I really do think that absolutely disgusting. Jeffrey Epstein liked young girls, but he didn't like eight-year-olds. But I think that there are multiple people in the Hollywood industry in particular who do. Yes. Thank you. I think the same people who are behind some of the films that we see right now where this starts to get normalized in a way, where there's a lot of messaging in these films. You can't avoid it. More and more, it's getting shoved down your throat. They start with gay romances in your face all over Broadway, deep tongue kissing. All right. I love my gay friends, but that's a lot. Then next thing you know, every man turns into a woman in these productions, whether it's Hollywood or on the big stage. It's not that you have to be a pedophile to be... It's not that gay people are more likely to be pedophiles. But if you see these guys who are trying to change the messaging on pedophilia, they use our openness to people who happen to be LGBTQ as the window to get in. We're just on that spectrum. That's just us. We're just minor, attracted people.

It's nothing to worry about. It's just another fetish. That's all it is. Yeah, well, I mean, it's dark. I do think it's much more widespread than people understand. I had Corey Feldman tell me that directly in a heated conversation I had with him five years ago.

Heated in what way?

He wanted people to talk about this. He grew up as a child actor. You saw what happened with Nickelodian. I had some of those kids on my show. They grew up with Nickelodian. Who didn't have their kids watch Nickelodian? Did you have any idea it was such a perv fest with these people taking advantage of young kids and pedophile after pedophile and child pornography? It was absolutely disgusting. What a place to send your child and the people running it accused of pushing these disgusting messages into our kids' television programming. You look at what that guy did to Ariana Grande when she was a star on Nickelodeon. Completely sexualized this girl when she was 15 years old, writhing around on the bed like she was a porn star. I just think there are a There are a lot of perverts out there who control a lot of our media, whether it's the small screen or the big screen. This is all part of... In a way, it's like grooming us, getting used to this stuff. When they take the next step, we're okay with it. Not to mention what's happening in our children's libraries at school, right?

I keep reading that there's a book burning campaign against great children's literature.

Yeah.

No.

I mean, if great children's literature includes this stuff, we're in a lot of trouble. One of the most disgusting things I've seen all year is 60 Minutes when they had on Moms for Liberty, and Scott Pelley, who is a disgusting, dishonest broker, tried to tell-Wait, wait.

Do you say, and I think I'm quitting, Scott Pelley is a disgusting, dishonest broker.

Correct, yes. He's about as honest as his friend Leslie Stahl, who said, The laptop can't be verified. It can't be verified. He's got the Moms for Liberty gals there, and he's trying to tell them that we are not seeing books in K through 12 education that talk about, forgive me, anal sex, that talk about the specifics of heterosex, that offer absolutely disgusting sex tips to kids who are 10. I've seen it with my own eyes. You guys have seen enough of this out there with parents, outrageous school board meetings, raising hell over this, to know Scott Pelley has his head up his rear end. It's happening, and his denial is hashtag part of the problem.

Sue, I mean, you've spent now, I think, a couple of decades in or around the American news media. When you first got into it, contrast the opinions you had of it then to the ones you have now. What are your conclusions?

Oh, wow.

I mean, so has changed. When I got into news, it was 2003 or 2004, and I was an unhappy lawyer. I was done with the law, and I just wanted to try broadcast journalism. I thought it would be really fun, thought it would use some of my skills. So I didn't care. I was like, I got my interview at Fox, and I went in, and Roger Ailes, his number two guy, was like, Everyone wants to work for us now that we're number one. I was like, They're number one? Holy shit, I'm never going to get this job. I had no idea. I didn't care. It I'm not talking about ideology. I didn't know much. I didn't know much about the news. I wasn't political. When I was a lawyer, you have no time to be anything other than a lawyer. You're not thinking about politics unless you're a true DC lawyer, like a lobbyist. I was a litigator trying cases for big corporations. It wasn't until I started getting neck deep into it that I realized how things worked. Thankfully, I did grow up a fox, so I never had the left wing indoctrination shoved on me.

Then in the past, For 5-10 years, the ground has shifted under all of our feet, where I used to consider myself center-right, moderate. Now, if you take one of those tests, what are you online? I'm a far-right conservative. It's just this is what happens.

I actually think the term is dangerous extremist.

Yeah, I'm a dangerous extremist.

So a threat to democracy.

Nice to see you here.

Well, I definitely am. That's interesting. So is that you've changed? I mean, you've seen a lot, a lot, I know, or that the definitions have changed.

Tucker, I'll give you one example. I used to fall for, believe in some of the woke nonsense that's being shoved down our throats now when it was just baby level. Right now, it's grown into huge monster level. But I was one of the people on Fox defending the whole transgender thing back in 2013. That's because, like most people, I wanted to be empathetic. I didn't want to be nasty. I didn't want to be bullying. It was a very small problem back then. So this seemed like an appropriate reaction to it. Same thing on the race stuff. I would get very upset when they would attack me for being an alleged racist. One time, there's a whole bunch of articles about me being an alleged racist because I saw these gangs beating up a woman, and I said, These are thugs. What a bunch of thugs. A week of media stories about what a racist I was. I was rattled. I was upset. I was like, Oh, my God, I guess I can't use the word thug. I mean, now I'm like, They're thugs. It takes a while. So I needed that thicker skin. And on the gender stuff, I mean, I've completely reversed myself, and I see it entirely differently.

So it's just with some growth, and while they've gotten more pernicious and I've been paying attention, my worldview on these issues has entirely changed.

Well, but I would also say that a lot I bet a lot of people in this room, you had your decency leveraged against you. You had the moral advantage, but the political disadvantage of really, sincerely wanting to be a good person and not hurt someone's feelings. I mean, this is the way that people who are trying to be good people think. I don't want to hurt anyone else. There are a lot of hurting people. They don't want to make it worse. You really try to be decent, and they take that their instinct, and they use it against you. Yes.

Then you learn there's no amount of subjugation that is okay for them. You must be on your knees forever. I do think one of the reasons why Wait, can you just stop and explain that a little more?

That's so interesting.

There's not enough ring kissing that you can do, because even if you kiss the ring... I mean, let's go back to the Trump thing. The left loved me after that Trump debate, and they thought that I was secretly a Trump hater, that I was a wolf in sheep's clothing at Fox News, and I was going to take down the Republican Party. All I wanted to do is ask a really hard debate question. I asked one of him, and I asked one of everybody, just like I had done it, all the presidential debates that I moderated. Then they started to love me. They're like, Oh, we love you. We love you. Then I got a job offer at NBC, and for all sorts of reasons, I left because my time at Fox was done for a number of reasons, some of which you may have read about in the paper. I go to NBC, and one of the first things I said to them was, Just in case you're thinking, I am a secret liberal waiting to let my liberal flag fly, I'm not. I'm exactly who you saw me on the air as. I'm somebody who's more center-right in my political beliefs, but I try to play it straight on the air.

Fine, fine, fine. Do you think that that was my experience when I went over there with those leftists? That was not my experience. But having said that, that experience was a gift to me. Such gift to me. I learned so much, and not just about like, Okay, I got fired, so I learned things, although I technically wasn't fired. My show was canceled, but the rest remains a matter of contract mystery. Been there. Yeah. But I learned this lesson. I learned this lesson. I'll take you back to the whole blackface controversy, okay, if I may. The reason my show ended is because we had a conversation on the air about blackface Halloween costumes, and I was saying, When did it become racist? I grew up in the '70s, and I remember this was on TV, it was on the movies, it was on the Christmas special. I had seen it. It wasn't clearly something that all the society was saying, Don't do this. Not talking about Minstrel's face, blackface, but talking about these Halloween costumes. And that's it. That's all I said. And that was the Cardinal Sin.

So you didn't burn a cross on the set at all. That's not true. No.

And by the way, NBC was airing four shows within two years of that comment with people in blackface. So okay, I've never worn blackface. I was just trying to have a conversation about it, but that's irrelevant. What I'm trying to say is I learned that these people are not sincere brokers. They're not actually outraged over anything I said, or Joy Bayhar would be fired over ABC news because she put her blackface pictures on the air and celebrated it. I could go down the list. Ted Danson, who was starring on NBC at that moment in a show about Heaven and Hell, He wore Minstral Show blackface. Whoopy Goldberg wrote the skit for him, and she, too, is a host on The View over at ABC. Scrubs, a couple of people wore Blackface on the air, and they were pretty... We could go down the list. For me, it was very eye-opening because at first My instincts were, I should go back out on the air and I should explain to people, No, no, no. Don't be offended. I can show you all these examples of what I'm talking about. I'm not endorsing it. I'm saying I noticed it and it changed.

I realized I realized, What are you doing? These are not people who are honestly mad at you for what you said. They're mad at the voice you've been bringing because you probably didn't watch my show at NBC. Nobody did. But I was saying conservative things. I was defending Brett Kavanaugh to the hilt. I was merciless on these stupid gang rape accusers and all that BS. I do think people were starting to recoil. I attacked Jane Fonda brutally on the air in a 20-minute monolog. What they wanted was my ruination. You cannot bargain with us. No amount of on the knee apologies playing their game, trying to get along or just be a nice person who tried to look inside and say, What did I do? I'm willing to self-examine, would advance the ball at all. Then you finally, if you go through something like that, graduate to the point not giving a damn what they say about you. It is liberating. This is something he knows nothing about.

I can just say, having spent many, many, many years in television, I've never seen crueler or more deceptive behavior toward anyone than what they did to you at NBC, and I used to work there, and I know that they're loathsome. I didn't realize they were that loathsome. But it sounds like you're saying it's it's worth the suffering to arrive at that point of liberation.

Yes. That's in the personal and professional lane, that word liberation. But I also needed the growth. I needed the life lessons. This is one of the reasons why I do believe in cancel culture. I believe in my being canceled, and I believe in you being canceled.

I enjoyed it.

Yeah. Because ultimately, it separates you from a company that you did not belong at for whatever reason. The value systems are different. And once you get through the trauma, when you're going through trauma, you're not thinking about the life lessons. But if you're an introspective person, then hopefully at some point you sit back and you reflect on what did it mean for me, what did I learn from it? And I could say the same I was thinking about Fox in my last couple of years there. And that's something you should be thankful for. I've grown as a person. I've developed muscles I didn't have. I can handle additional challenges in a way I never could have before. I've gotten closer to who I really am, and it's forced me examine my own values in a way few events will. All of that is a gift.

I love that.

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I've never learned a single thing sitting on the beach over a vacation ever. That's right. Eating French toast in bed has not grown me as a person, though I've enjoyed it. Okay, so I just have to ask you, since I do think you're the best legal analyst I've ever watched. Let's just game out.Not.

Jeffrey Tubin?

No. He's better on Zoom calls. What a filthy Not just because he's just a filthy person in every way.

It's hard.

It's really amazing. Let's just say, so Trump is at least tied, I think, up in the electoral count as of today. That's my belief based on the numbers that I saw this morning. Let's say that, you have no idea. None of us knows what's going to happen, but let's just say that holds and he wins the election first Tuesday in November, which I personally think I'm terrible at predictions. I'm always wrong. But if I had to bet money on it, I would bet that happens. What happens then, legally?

With the law fair?

Yes.

Well, first of all, I know you're going to talk to Charlie Kirk, and you should definitely be asking him about the ground game because there's a lot in his hands. Thank God for Charlie Kirk. No, but honestly, this applies to all of you because the Democrats get out the vote. Effort is second to none, and there cannot be any complacency. None. It really is tight. I think Politico had a headline the other day, like knife fight in a phone booth, and it is that tight. Everybody, it can't be in Charlie's hands. It It's going to be in Trump's hands, and especially in anything resembling or near a swing state. But what happens if he wins is the January sixth litigation and the Mar-a-Lago litigation go away instantly because He'll be in charge of the DOJ, and he'll pull those attack dogs, Jack Smith and his cohorts, off of those cases, and they're dead. They're dead. They're not going to be resurrected. Then we have Georgia, which is going to go away because Fannie Willis and Nathan Wade couldn't keep it in their pants. I think she's going to be disqualified on this appeal. The trial court judge did not disqualify them, but he begged.

If you read that opinion, he begged. He said, Oh, please, please. The stench of mendacity fills my courtroom. An actual phrase from his opinion, not disqualifying. He's an elected official. She's very popular. It's Atlanta region. This appellate corps, all three of whom are Republican judges, are going to disqualify her. I'd be stunned if I'm wrong. That case is going away because there's not going to be another prosecutor who will take it. That leaves us with New York and our old friend, Alvin Bragg. I understand. Yes, boo. We can keep it rolling for all those Soros prosecutors who don't want to prosecute any crime unless your name is Donald Trump. Alvin Bragg has gotten his conviction. They're going to have a sentencing at some point. Right now, it's set for after the election. I think the worst case scenario for Trump now is jail time with a suspended sentence, meaning he won't have to serve it until an appeal goes up. I think there's no chance that this conviction is going to stand because the Supreme Court ruled in that immunity ruling. You guys know about That's what they're talking about, right? They said, not only can you not go after a president criminally for most of his official acts, but in any case against him, you can't introduce evidence of what he did while in the oval office.

Well, the Alvin Bragg prosecution did a lot of that. What was Hope Hicks doing on the stand? If they weren't introducing evidence of what Trump was doing while President, and she was talking about her time. Anyway, that prosecution has to go, the conviction has to go, because the conviction was based in large part on evidence the Supreme Court has said may not be admitted in any case. That's just one thing. But even the jail time, no one not named Donald Trump would get jail time for this. As soon as that judge tries to make this a jail time case, he will appeal it up to the First Appellate Division. I just don't think Maybe it'll stand there, but once it gets up to New York State Court of Appeals, those are still rational judges. Those are the judges who threw out the Harvey Weinstein conviction. They've got stones, and they're not that afraid of politics. They're not great. It's not like in the Supreme Court, and I think Trump will prevail. I don't think he spends one day in jail, and I certainly don't think there's a judge in the land who would put a sitting president or president-elect in jail.

Are there legal mechanisms that Mark Elias and the rest of the Democratic Lawyer Army can use to stop the electors from certifying Trump President if he wins?

They're going to try. I don't know that's exactly how they'll do it. They may resurrect this, he committed an insurrection. I mean, they've said that they're going to. He committed an insurrection, and therefore, he can't be on the ballot. That ultimately winds up at the US Supreme Court, and they're going to kill it. I mean, honestly, you When you're feeling down about the state of our politics or our country, this is what I do. I go to bed at night, and I get under my blanky, and I think about the Supreme Court. Thank God. Thank God.

You have lawyer dreams. I do.

I used to call Chief Justice John Roberts, Chief Justice McDreamy Until Obamacare. He got downgraded. I met him at an event one time. It was a play in New York at some embassy, and I saw him. It was one of those things where you're part of the play as an audience member. You stand there and you're having dinner with the cast members and they're acting. It was actually very cool. I saw him after it was over and I went up to him and I said, Nice to meet you, Mr. Chief Justice. He said, Nice to meet you, Megan. I I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan. He said, Oh, you're the one. I said, Oh, no, no. I admire you. But Obamacare was not a principled decision. Doug was like, Honey. But it wasn't.

What did he What did he say?

He laughed. He's a good guy. Look, he's got a different role in his mind on the court than the rest of the justices. I agree with it in part, but I don't agree with the way he's been ruling. But anyway, we've got Alito, we've got Thomas, who seems great, in good health. We'll see. I had Gorsuch on the show the other day, and I love how anti-regulation he is. Gorsuch is hardcore anti-regulation. Just came out with a book talking about how big the administrative state has gotten. I think he would like the Javier Mele point. He would like to cut all the federal agencies down by a lot. I like him, although he is responsible for Bostok, the one that said there's a mandate to put trans people in your workplace. You can't exclude them based on the basis of being trans, and that one's a little stickier. Anyway, we've got a strong Supreme Court right now. I've never seen a court like this in my lifetime. We're at 6:3, and it's going to take a lot to unearth it. Now, if they win control of the Senate and the White House, and they win control of the Senate by a lot, they could get rid of the filibuster.

Well, they don't have to. They've already gotten rid of it for Supreme Court justices. They could expand the court, potentially. Then we'd have to march in the streets endlessly. I mean, that's civil war, banana Republic shit that we'd have to fight. Not calling for violence, but saying this would require every street in America to be filled with people. But mass civil disobed. Absolutely.

I mean, that is a stated goal. They've said that, repeatedly getting 16-year-olds to vote, having millions of illegal aliens vote, and expanding the court. They've all said that out loud. Do you think they will try the last one, packing it?

To pack the court? It depends on what November looks like. If they win, how big is the victory? If it's razor tight, I don't think they'd have the guts. I don't think so. But if she goes in there thinking she has a mandate, it's a terrifying thought. It could happen. It could happen. This is not Trump's locked up. He doesn't have it locked up yet. People need to be really clear about what It would be coming our way if she wins. And get to the polls. Get your friends to the polls. Get a bus and get everyone you know in swing states to the polls. If she wins and thinks she has a man state and starts doing the things she said she would do. Go look at her ACLU questionnaire. That, to his credit, Andrew Kuzinski over at CNN unearthed, and see what she wants to do about defunding ICE and making the entire country a sanctuary city. She said it. Using your tax payer dollars to fund sex change operations for prisoners and illegal immigrants. The country will change dramatically and we'll have to use every tool in our arsenal to fight it.

That would definitely include law fair, challenges with the current Supreme Court to stop what they're going to try to do to it.

How would you assess her record in office as, say, attorney general in the state of California? She refers to that a lot. My read as a non-lawyer, non-legal expert, is that she doesn't have limits in her behavior. She seems totally happy to prosecute people she doesn't like because she doesn't like them.

She's your It was her worst nightmare, Tucker, because she loves to go after the little guy, the drug users, people with these small, petty crimes. That's what she did, trying to convince people she was tough on crime as a San Francisco DA and then as California attorney general. Then as soon as she got on the national board, she abandoned all that, started bailing out BLM rioters, started to go hardcore the other way, backing people like Kim Fox, the Soros prosecutor in Chicago and so on, flipped all the way over the other way, and is truly the daughter of a Marxist and has Marxist tendencies herself, and is as far left as you can find. She's the most leftist presidential candidate we have ever had. I think she's farther to the left than Bernie Sanders.

That's not what I read.

Without his charm.

I read that she was the source of all joy. Have you read that? Yeah.

So I hear. Although they've gotten rid of the joy since they had to kill the cackle.

The cat memes are my favorite. It's still a creative country.Oh.

My God, it's amazing.It's amazing.

Have you seen the TikToks? Then they're killing cats and they're killing dogs. That's a new cat meme.

They're eating the pets. That was the high point in America politics. I mean that, too. So Kamala Harris, not to go over what we just saw in the last two months, but how exactly did she become the Democratic nominee without anyone voting for her? How can that happen?

I've never seen somebody so good at upward. It's amazing. I know you're not allowed to talk about this, but she slept her way into California politics. It's true. I don't say it to be mean. I say it because it's true. She slept with Willy Brown.

Which is its own skill, I got to say.

I mean, maybe she just found him so... He was so full of magnetism. He was 30 years older than she was.

I said she had no talent, so that was not fair.

He paved her way. He paved her way into California politics. He helped her get elected as San Francisco DA. Once you're in that system as a far left dem, you're good. Of course, you're going to become the senator from that state when the opportunity presents itself, never mind the identity politics aspect of it. Before you knew it, Joe Biden was running around promising people he'd add a black woman to the ticket because James Clibern said, You're not going to win South Carolina unless you do that. So he did it, and now she's our vice president. Then he falls apart after the big cover up. And next thing you know, she's out there an empty vessel pretending she's the next Obama. Do you guys know that there was a report by Mark Halpern, who's very tied into these Democrat circles, that before the Democratic National Convention speech, she was prepped by CAA, Creative Artists Agency, the biggest Hollywood agency there is, Brian Lord, who runs it, and top Hollywood talent on how to deliver her lines, how to nail her speech. Now, what are the odds that she, when she was hauled up for those five or six days preparing for the debate, didn't have help like that?

That's what she's got. If you're the Republican candidate, you show up, you've got both of the moderators and your opponent against you, you get interrupted in every answer. You get fact-checked erroneously in every answer. You get the moderator's opinion coming at you as a fact-check. You get follow-ups on everything. If you try to dodge or weave it all, they will nail you to the floor. But if you're Kamala Harris and you've said everything there is to say about fracking and then show up and say, I've always been consistent, it's, Thank you, Madam President.

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You've got one candidate who shows up with the biggest, most powerful Hollywood agency prepping her with voice coaches, and the other candidate shows up with two cans of Diet Coke. That doesn't seem like a symmetrical contest.

And a burger. No, it's totally unfair. To me, it's been so frustrating to watch people, Republicans, over the past 48 hours, say, Well, that's the way it is. You have to do better. That's just how it is. Everybody knows the media is biased. This is not the right attitude. What happened on that stage on Tuesday night was a complete dereliction of duty by those moderators. They completely abandoned all journalistic integrity and principle. It's deadly serious. We're talking about a presidential election here. They actively inserted themselves to the point where you actually have to wonder whether they made a conscious decision at ABC, this is the night We're going to do it. We're just going to lift the dress up and show them everything, that we're not journalists, that we are partisan hacks.

I always thought, judging by David Muir's abs, that he was a great journalist, but Who is David Muir, anyway?

He's managed to fly under the radar. That's one way to put it. Because he lets his programmers, his producers, and his content selections speak for his bias. Media research Center did a study right before the debate. It dropped showing that I think it was 92% of their coverage on Kamala was positive, 92 or 93. 97% of their coverage on Trump was negative. They said that ABC was the worst of the three nightly newscasts. Mbc, more fair than ABC, CBS as well. So he got chosen to do the debate. When David Meer was out there without the producers selecting the stories, all of which were left, you're left to say, Okay, let's see you, David Meer. Who are you? Of course, we already knew because he has a say on content selection on his show. But he really let his freak flag fly. What they did up there, I'll just take the one moment, which is really driving me insane. They asked Trump about his comment that he lost by a whisker recently on a podcast. Fair question. It's fine. You can ask him that. And Trump says, While I was being sarcastic, he actually fact-checked him with, I didn't detect It didn't affect any sarcasm.

Are you like one of those emojis from the emoji movie that can detect? That's not sarcasm. No, that's a truth teller. It was the most inappropriate thing I've ever seen. And it It masqueraded as a fact check, and it, of course, tripped Trump up. I'll just give you one other thing. It's another moment of the debate. They asked Kamala Harris about the fact that they did nothing about immigration until the last six months. Obviously, an election ploy to make the numbers look better. They turned to her. First, she does her John Wayne routine like, Well, I was tough on their border back when I was an AG, and now I'm getting it. Sure, Jan.

Well, she does have a gun, so I get it.

Sure, she does. She gives that routine, and then she immediately pivots to his rally stink and people leave. Of course, for Trump, that's like...

I know, he can't. No.

Here's a liver snap. Yes. I know. You're like, No, Trump, come back. Come back. I know. No, don't do it. He did it. He did it. Then he did, and you're like, Pivot back to immigration. This is your best issue. This is her worst issue. Pivot, pivot, pivot. Then he starts pivoting. That's when we got into the dogs and the cats. Okay, Okay. I mean, all right.

But they're eating the pets. I mean, come on. I mean, it is a thing.

But maybe not our best example. The Babylon Bee had a headline the other day saying, Democrats, fact check, Trump, no dogs and cats being killed, just women and children. He pivots back to immigration with the dogs and the cats. Fact check. Not happening. Another inappropriate fact check. This is a matter up for debate right now. We've had dozens now at this point of witness testimonials it is true. We have one unnamed city manager saying, not that I could prove. Well, what? That's not a proof that it's not happening. Another inappropriate fact check. So he screws up Trump's momentum. Then he interrupts to go to Kamala Harris. I'm thinking, okay, this is it, where he's going to go back to her and say, The question was, why did you wait until six months? No one's given me an answer. We've done rallies and we've done dogs. What's the answer? Instead of saying that to her, what does he say? Your response, Madame Harris, Madam Vice President. What? That's not the toss. So what does she do? Does she get up there and say, Let me give you an answer. She says, 200 Republicans have endorsed me.

And now we're off on that course, and we never got back.

To be fair, Dick Cheney was one of them.

Yeah, that's right.

Did you ever think you'd wake up in a country where Kamala Harris was bragging about D arth Vader's endorsement? Like, what?

Yeah. They love him now. The left loves some Dick Cheney.

And his horrible daughter. The whole thing is like, you're blowing my mind. Of all the Republicans who could endorse.

Yes.

I'll take Dick Cheney. Just for the charm alone. It's like, what?

It's so true. By the way, you listen to leftist media and they really think that's going to make a difference. They don't think that Trump's going to recover from the Dick Cheney endorsement of Kamala or the Liz Cheney. A lot of Liz Cheney Republicans left.

It's just crazy. I mean, it is a cleansing moment for the Republican Party, actually. It's like getting a giant bald splinter out after 40 years. Do you know what I mean? I was like, Here's what we'll do. All the people in our party who love killing people for profit, you can have. She's like, That's right. Enjoy. We've got a big tent.

The water's fine. But look at the Lincoln Project. They're still out there doing these terrible ads about Trump after their pedophilia scandal. What? How did that? How did they survive that? There was some guy there who was accused of behaving very inappropriately with young men. I don't know exactly how young, but the point is, there's still Democrats giving them millions of dollars, and they're running ads against Trump like he's the bad one.

You get Bill Kristol and Dick Cheney. What a trade. So awesome. We get Bobby Kennedy. I think it's fair.

Adam Kinzinger. Yes.

You're You're the best. I just want to thank you for this conversation. It's just put me in a great mood, and it's wonderful to see you. But I want to just end on getting your views on a topic that I think is really hopeful and great. You have just painted a devastating portrait of the American news media, and you're doing it from a place of deep knowledge and experience. I mean, you're Megan Kelly. You're not guessing about this. You weren't there. But then you leave NBC in the nastiest, most dishonest, as I exit I've ever seen. Never seen anyone treated the way you were treated. Then you built this empire by yourself. It's an amazing story, and it's a tribute to your grit and your native talent. But it's also a commentary on where we're going. I didn't even think to call anybody at NBC News to join on this tour because people don't even know who works there. Yeah. Right? That's right. Maybe your life is a testament to what the future of media will be, and maybe that's great.

Thank you. My life and yours, Tucker. I think what we're proving is that the future of media is independent. It's a direct relationship between the consumers and the journalist of choice. People will make up their minds on an individual basis. Who do I trust? Who do I trust for news and information? And who don't I trust? And more and more, especially post-pandemic, people are realizing you can't trust these large corporations. They have agendas that they are secretly and not so secretly trying to shove down your throat without owning it. You have an individual, you can make up your own mind. Is she a truth teller? Is he a truth teller? Do they take big risks and go against the green even when it might hurt them? Do they apologize to me when they got something wrong or own it? Are they self-deprecating? You're like the most successful/ A self-deprecating person I know, which shows your humility. You want someone with humility telling you about the news because sometimes we do get it wrong, and we need to be able to say, All right, that one, not my best. The audience is forgiving. But you don't want people who are agenda-driven, especially not with some corporate overlord's agenda.

It was funny. I was listening to this podcast recently, and you came up. They were very angry at you.

Not the first time.

As a result, they were trying to say that he has no influence, that he's very popular, but with no influence. This made me laugh. So literally, you had the White House weighing in on Tucker's interview last week. It has absolutely no influence, but everyone in the country feels the need to comment on everything he does. And on top of that, just look at the… Don't take my word for it because I'm your friend. You guys tell me, who is more influential? Tucker Carlson or Wolf Blitzer? Truly. Who has more sway with an audience? I'll take myself. Yours truly or Mika Brzezinski? I like my odds. I'm good on that cage match. Nobody talks about these people. Now, maybe a show here or there will make news, but cable news is dead. It was a suicide that was assisted by Donald Trump, and it was one that needed to happen.

I can't improve on that. I should have said this at the outset. In my introduction of you, I said, What a A talented person you are, which I think is evidence to anyone who listens to you. I said, What a talented person you are, which is obvious, that's why you're successful. But I forgot to mention the basis of your success and your happiness, which is your honesty. You're an honest person, and I'm grateful for it. I'm grateful to be your friend. Thank you. Megan Kelly.

Takes one to no one, Hucker.Thank you.Thank you.

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