No one lives a life that can actually produce a reality episode every week. Is the show canceled? They haven't come out and said it, but we're not continuing.

Did you think you would marry someone with dwarfism?

On the show, I said, I'm going to marry someone with dwarfism, and I'm going to have a dwarf army. Really? I got the dwarf army. I did not marry that dwarf. I would not wish dwarfism on my kids. There is a lot of suffering. There's crowds. The rides, that's cool. But Tori loves it.That's so sweet. Did you guys get stopped a lot while you were there? Does that happen whenever you're out with your family? People are like, Oh, it's the people from the, and the next day, the MVP goes to Disneyland. So Patrick Mahomes goes to Disneyland the next day, and we're sitting there watching the parade, and all of a sudden, this woman comes up to me crying. And she was like, So excited to meet me. And I'm literally like, Honey, Patrick Mahomes is right there. But she was so safe to meet me and say hi.His wife is best friends with Taylor Swift. It's usually only when he People recognize him or family members. Tori is starting to get there, though. I know. Starting. People recognize her without me. Every once in a while. That's so funny.That's fun. I know you said you're not technically a Disney adult, but I would say we are in a way. We definitely are. We just love the parks and taking our kids. When you see your kids go, too, it just makes it really special.Oh, totally.That's what it is. If the kids are loving it, the family is loving it, I love it. But I would not go.He would not choose it on the same.Yeah, I would go.Three kids. How is life with three? Because we have two, and I feel like it can be a bit hectic, but I'm curious how three He feels being outnumbered.Yeah, it speeds up pretty fast.You are outnumbered. You can feel it.Every kid is different. Our first kid, we're like, Oh, this is great. And then the second kid, Okay, it's doable. She'll have the baby, I'll have Jackson, or She'll have Laila. I'll have Jackson. Or vice versa. I'll take Laila. But then, yeah, three. Hard as with three right now. It's all great. But Jackson's in one speed. He wants to go outside and ride bikes or hike. Others can't do that yet. You know what I'm saying? You have three kids all at different play speeds. You know what I'm saying? One, the baby is indoors, crawling. Or Josiah is not crawling. He's walking now. But you know what I'm saying a little bit? You're at these different phases or nap times are different. Jackson's not in nap anymore. Josiah is still taking two naps. I thought that was one of the harder things. It's just you have different... And they all have different needs. Jackson is still craving for that one-on-one that he remembers there's that one-on-one attention. So he's constantly trying to crave for that. But then Laila is stuck in the middle. We bounce her back and forth. Hey, go hang with Jackson, or she's with Josiah.She goes in between of being the baby to be with the older kids. And then Josiah is just trying to figure it all out.Josiah has such bad FOMO. He's only two, and he cannot chill. If the kids are outside, he needs to be outside. If the kids are doing rides, he needs to... Sometimes you're Dude, you're two. You cannot do everything that everyone else is doing. And that's hard.That would be like, yeah, you got a lot of different needs, and you want to fulfill all them, but you can't.We're only two people. We only got four hands. So what was... This is the infamous question, but what was the hardest transition? Zero to one, one to two, 2-3?My world got rocked from one to two. From going from our... Our oldest was also so easy. And I say this, we talk about Laila all the time about being our difficult one, and she's so chill now, but as a baby, she was hard. And going from our first being so easy dream, no problems with anything, to a baby who was very colicky and threw up a lot. It just took a lot of time.Jackson wasn't super about it. Jackson did not like her. Yeah.He was like, Send that thing back. It's not just her.I think it was mom and dad's focus. For sure. You went from, That's your boy. Now you're, Hey, Jack, I'm sorry. You need to play by yourself. We need to do this with the baby or whatever. That concept. I'm very big on child psychology. In another world, I would have been a child psychologist. The selfishness of kids and the self-centeredness that they have. The world revolves around them. Then when they come to these moments of not, but they're trying to still seek that out. How do I please? How do I find that again. That was probably the toughest. You agree. What did you say going to one to two. Yeah, one to two for sure. Then three, you're just in.Three was just like, he was always here. He just rolled in.When Jackson and Laila both loved Josiah as a baby, Jackson's response to Laila being born and then Josiah was totally different. He was all about it.Laila was like such a little mother hen that she just stuck right into it.100%.One to two was rough, though.You made it a pretty big announcement not too long ago that you were leaving the show, Little People, Big World. With being on reality TV for so long, I think Abby was like, Matt, the show has been going on for over 20 seasons. 25. That's insane. That's It's crazy how many seasons have aird. I'm curious how, still on the topic of kids, how you talk to your children about TV and about when you're at Disney and someone comes up and says hi to you, how do you How do you talk to your kid about that?It's our burden. I would say it's when a fan comes up, the kids don't really vibe with fans a lot. And I get it. And sometimes fans are great, but there are fans in a reality TV setting, they think they know us. They think they know our kids. It's the path we chose to show them on the TV, and we show them on social media. But then it's our burden in person to handle that. Most of the time, if a fan walks up to us, it's Jackson, Keep going or follow mom. And then that's our burden to handle that interaction.I would say it wasn't the only... There were so many reasons why we left the show. It wasn't the only reason, But that was a big part of it was our kids all of a sudden were becoming more aware of people recognizing them or having to come in from school and film. And that wasn't what they wanted to do. And so I felt like that was It's a big reason for us stepping away being like, we want to give our kids more space. We want to give them a little bit more- It's a stressor, too.I feel like reality TV is a different industry than a lot of other industries. If someone works at Intel or Nike, like dad works at Nike. Mom's at home taking care of the kids, great. And then dad distributes, pays for the family to do whatever. Reality TV, it's a little different. It's not me. It's not just Tori. You're not a show without the family. The kids are the employees also. You know what I'm saying? It all relies. We're all building the family wealth together. You know what I'm saying a little bit? It's a little less just dad is making the actual money. The whole family is growing together. The dad, the family supports or the mom, whatever. But reality television, there's some production days. If the kids aren't into it, it's stressful for us because the Those days got more. Then it was time to say, Hey... Again, there's a lot of other reasons, though, but we're like, Hey, this is a good point where we need to isolate this and become a little bit more mom and dad or the breadwinners. That's not the kid's burden, and that's not their... They already have so much other stressful things in their life, like eating vegetables and going to bed on that.So you don't need to also add adult stress to them, too.Isn't it so interesting, though? Because, okay, obviously for a A very long time. For thousands of thousands of years, kids have been a part of helping take care of the family farm or whatever. Kids have always been involved in family businesses in one way or another. Obviously, with child labor laws in the past century, that's been really good to help protect kids and make sure that they're going to school with reality TV. It's not just like they're helping the family business, but their private life is out as well. And a kid that is helping take care of a family farm, it's not like the whole country knows the inner details of their life.I would say, yeah, it's a very public job versus to us.Yeah. Some people are like, You have dwarfism, and this is this. We just went to LPA, and he's literally like, Dad, why are you playing with all the kids? You know what I'm saying? The kids, the other adults, my size. These aren't kids. These are adults. He thinks I'm the only-Because of their size, kid and everything, that's, I think, has changed our outlook on how kids interact because it was him just simply stating a fact.He was not being malicious. He was not being a bully. He was just like, You're too short. You can't play with us. We're older than you.You're too short. He'd never seen it.Yeah, they'd never seen it. But then once they let him play and Jackson's good at football, then they're like, Oh, wait. Okay, this is cool. We're good.But it's allowing him He's going to have to figure that out. We've talked about this on our podcast, not to plug our podcast again.Hey, go listen to their podcast right now. If you're not subscribing to... It's not New Heights. Raising Heights.Raising Heights.Raising Heights.I apologize.New Heights is a good one, too, though. We say this. I truly believe sometimes parenting with someone with disabilities... Parenting is hard, regardless, and we don't do it.There's times weWe're perfect. We don't make any mistakes. We need improvement. But But I truly believe raising someone with a disability, the parenting might have to be a notched up one. You don't get the same luxuries as other parents. Tori doesn't get the same luxury to be able to be as relatable with other moms. How many times have you had a conversation? Like, your kids are getting so big. Our kids aren't getting big. Our kids aren't in the same gross spurts as every other mom's kids. You know what I'm saying? Those conversations. But then also parenting They're going to have different challenges than every other kid, too. They're not going to be able to get away with as much. Or I would say, confidence-wise, we want to develop confident kids. If you're 6'4, but really immature, but super You're looking, you can probably get a girlfriend still. You know what I'm saying? They'll ignore that. If you're 5, 4, 4,50/50 for us to have kids with Dwarfism.I heard you explain this on your podcast.And so that's, I think, unique for us because a lot of our friends that have one person of average height and one person who has Dwarfism, they have at least one kid who doesn't have Dwarfism. But we locked out, got all three.Are you planning on more babies?You're like, We got three. We are done. Yes.We're feeling a little outnumbered at the moment. Our kids are great, but it's not just our kids. Laila had a surgery. Josiah has a surgery coming up. Jackson's already had a leg surgery. There's certain medical things with kids with Dwarfism.But then also having three C-sections, I'm done. My body, I don't think we can take anymore. We're content.Do you know, based on ultrasound, if the baby is going to have Dauphism?Yeah, third trimester. Oh, you don't know until the third trimester. Which also was fine because all my girlfriends, when had babies, their last scan would be at 20 weeks, where we got to go until 30, 40 weeks to track the baby.But we got all the- We knew before the doctors told us, though. We knew. Really? Yeah.I know what this looks like. Our doctor was Especially with Jackson, she was a little nervous, I think, to tell us because you never know how a parent is going to react to their child having some diagnosis.I saw the nose, I saw the forehead.She comes in with this piece of paper and there's red all over it. She sits down and takes a deep breath. I think we said it before her. We're like, Okay, so he has Dwarfism? You could just tell.She was like, Yeah, you did.Okay, we're good.By Josiah, they were telling us the second week.Was that a question? Obviously, everyone, the question I was like, Do you want a boy or a girl? It's like, Oh, which one do you want? Was that a question for you guys? Do you want a child that has Dwarfism? Or not with Dwarfism, were people asking you guys that question?Oh, 100%.I think it would be rather bizarre for us to go, Oh, yeah, we really hope our kid has twerfism and is different from the rest. I feel like that was always such a weird question because who would say that?One understand. That's where it gets tough. The question- Maybe it was your twerf army comment. No, we love our kids. We love our kids. But I would not choose that for my kids. There is a lot of suffering. There's a lot of mental toughness that needs to happen. There's a lot of medical complications that come from it. You know what I'm saying? But it's It's tough to say that. When I say this, people will say, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you. But it's like, no, reality is like, yeah, I would not wish dwarfism on my kids necessarily. No one would pick Dwarfism over average height. You know what I'm saying? People might say they will. No, because they know it's not actually possible. It's not possible for me to actually redo my... You know what I'm saying? A genie is not right here. So they'll say for their own security. But it's like, no, there is a lot of things that can happen.I think that's where something that we've talked a lot about lately is the question of why would you bring kids into the world if they were going to be different and have a disability?When you know that you could have someone with Yeah.I think that as much as we would never wish that upon someone, that does not mean that your child cannot live a fulfilled life just because they have dysmorphism.It'd be super inspiring and be happy and all these things. It is this conflict.It's back to another- But it's the same as you asked a parent, Do you want your kid to be born with four fingers or five fingers? Their life is still probably going to be pretty fulfilled if they have four fingers on one hand. But no one's going to say four fingers. No one's going to say, I really hope my kid only has four fingers.That's a really good way of putting it.You mentioned surgeries. Are there certain surgeries that people with whorephism, actually. Oh, what did you say? Or that's the pressure of not having story lines is when you're on your other TV, they're always asking, What are you guys doing this week? And you almost feel like lame.Like going to all these.But really, you're normal. But it's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not skydiving every other week. You know what I'm saying? That's not normal.We're in this season right now, too, that our kids are going through it with medical stuff. It's nice not to have the cameras there. It's nice to do it on our terms and on our- Jackson had a second leg surgery, and we didn't share it He asked us not to share. I think that was a huge point where Zack and I looked at us like, Okay, what does this meanalways have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together.Intentionality. It's cool to see how you guys have respected your family, your kids, and just wanted the best for them, clearly.It's clear that leaving the show was probably... I mean, you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision, but it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family. How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own family?You just experience it, you get burned or whatever, and then you realize, Hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot... I'm a very passive guy, and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, it does light something under you where it's like, This is not happening, or we're separating from or we're doing that.I think when you intertwine business with family, it gets super complicated.so much wisdom.Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.Zack trying his Instagram.I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.They all think it's me.Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.Look at you.Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.

crowds. The rides, that's cool. But Tori loves it.

That's so sweet. Did you guys get stopped a lot while you were there? Does that happen whenever you're out with your family? People are like, Oh, it's the people from the, and the next day, the MVP goes to Disneyland. So Patrick Mahomes goes to Disneyland the next day, and we're sitting there watching the parade, and all of a sudden, this woman comes up to me crying. And she was like, So excited to meet me. And I'm literally like, Honey, Patrick Mahomes is right there. But she was so safe to meet me and say hi.His wife is best friends with Taylor Swift. It's usually only when he People recognize him or family members. Tori is starting to get there, though. I know. Starting. People recognize her without me. Every once in a while. That's so funny.That's fun. I know you said you're not technically a Disney adult, but I would say we are in a way. We definitely are. We just love the parks and taking our kids. When you see your kids go, too, it just makes it really special.Oh, totally.That's what it is. If the kids are loving it, the family is loving it, I love it. But I would not go.He would not choose it on the same.Yeah, I would go.Three kids. How is life with three? Because we have two, and I feel like it can be a bit hectic, but I'm curious how three He feels being outnumbered.Yeah, it speeds up pretty fast.You are outnumbered. You can feel it.Every kid is different. Our first kid, we're like, Oh, this is great. And then the second kid, Okay, it's doable. She'll have the baby, I'll have Jackson, or She'll have Laila. I'll have Jackson. Or vice versa. I'll take Laila. But then, yeah, three. Hard as with three right now. It's all great. But Jackson's in one speed. He wants to go outside and ride bikes or hike. Others can't do that yet. You know what I'm saying? You have three kids all at different play speeds. You know what I'm saying? One, the baby is indoors, crawling. Or Josiah is not crawling. He's walking now. But you know what I'm saying a little bit? You're at these different phases or nap times are different. Jackson's not in nap anymore. Josiah is still taking two naps. I thought that was one of the harder things. It's just you have different... And they all have different needs. Jackson is still craving for that one-on-one that he remembers there's that one-on-one attention. So he's constantly trying to crave for that. But then Laila is stuck in the middle. We bounce her back and forth. Hey, go hang with Jackson, or she's with Josiah.She goes in between of being the baby to be with the older kids. And then Josiah is just trying to figure it all out.Josiah has such bad FOMO. He's only two, and he cannot chill. If the kids are outside, he needs to be outside. If the kids are doing rides, he needs to... Sometimes you're Dude, you're two. You cannot do everything that everyone else is doing. And that's hard.That would be like, yeah, you got a lot of different needs, and you want to fulfill all them, but you can't.We're only two people. We only got four hands. So what was... This is the infamous question, but what was the hardest transition? Zero to one, one to two, 2-3?My world got rocked from one to two. From going from our... Our oldest was also so easy. And I say this, we talk about Laila all the time about being our difficult one, and she's so chill now, but as a baby, she was hard. And going from our first being so easy dream, no problems with anything, to a baby who was very colicky and threw up a lot. It just took a lot of time.Jackson wasn't super about it. Jackson did not like her. Yeah.He was like, Send that thing back. It's not just her.I think it was mom and dad's focus. For sure. You went from, That's your boy. Now you're, Hey, Jack, I'm sorry. You need to play by yourself. We need to do this with the baby or whatever. That concept. I'm very big on child psychology. In another world, I would have been a child psychologist. The selfishness of kids and the self-centeredness that they have. The world revolves around them. Then when they come to these moments of not, but they're trying to still seek that out. How do I please? How do I find that again. That was probably the toughest. You agree. What did you say going to one to two. Yeah, one to two for sure. Then three, you're just in.Three was just like, he was always here. He just rolled in.When Jackson and Laila both loved Josiah as a baby, Jackson's response to Laila being born and then Josiah was totally different. He was all about it.Laila was like such a little mother hen that she just stuck right into it.100%.One to two was rough, though.You made it a pretty big announcement not too long ago that you were leaving the show, Little People, Big World. With being on reality TV for so long, I think Abby was like, Matt, the show has been going on for over 20 seasons. 25. That's insane. That's It's crazy how many seasons have aird. I'm curious how, still on the topic of kids, how you talk to your children about TV and about when you're at Disney and someone comes up and says hi to you, how do you How do you talk to your kid about that?It's our burden. I would say it's when a fan comes up, the kids don't really vibe with fans a lot. And I get it. And sometimes fans are great, but there are fans in a reality TV setting, they think they know us. They think they know our kids. It's the path we chose to show them on the TV, and we show them on social media. But then it's our burden in person to handle that. Most of the time, if a fan walks up to us, it's Jackson, Keep going or follow mom. And then that's our burden to handle that interaction.I would say it wasn't the only... There were so many reasons why we left the show. It wasn't the only reason, But that was a big part of it was our kids all of a sudden were becoming more aware of people recognizing them or having to come in from school and film. And that wasn't what they wanted to do. And so I felt like that was It's a big reason for us stepping away being like, we want to give our kids more space. We want to give them a little bit more- It's a stressor, too.I feel like reality TV is a different industry than a lot of other industries. If someone works at Intel or Nike, like dad works at Nike. Mom's at home taking care of the kids, great. And then dad distributes, pays for the family to do whatever. Reality TV, it's a little different. It's not me. It's not just Tori. You're not a show without the family. The kids are the employees also. You know what I'm saying? It all relies. We're all building the family wealth together. You know what I'm saying a little bit? It's a little less just dad is making the actual money. The whole family is growing together. The dad, the family supports or the mom, whatever. But reality television, there's some production days. If the kids aren't into it, it's stressful for us because the Those days got more. Then it was time to say, Hey... Again, there's a lot of other reasons, though, but we're like, Hey, this is a good point where we need to isolate this and become a little bit more mom and dad or the breadwinners. That's not the kid's burden, and that's not their... They already have so much other stressful things in their life, like eating vegetables and going to bed on that.So you don't need to also add adult stress to them, too.Isn't it so interesting, though? Because, okay, obviously for a A very long time. For thousands of thousands of years, kids have been a part of helping take care of the family farm or whatever. Kids have always been involved in family businesses in one way or another. Obviously, with child labor laws in the past century, that's been really good to help protect kids and make sure that they're going to school with reality TV. It's not just like they're helping the family business, but their private life is out as well. And a kid that is helping take care of a family farm, it's not like the whole country knows the inner details of their life.I would say, yeah, it's a very public job versus to us.Yeah. Some people are like, You have dwarfism, and this is this. We just went to LPA, and he's literally like, Dad, why are you playing with all the kids? You know what I'm saying? The kids, the other adults, my size. These aren't kids. These are adults. He thinks I'm the only-Because of their size, kid and everything, that's, I think, has changed our outlook on how kids interact because it was him just simply stating a fact.He was not being malicious. He was not being a bully. He was just like, You're too short. You can't play with us. We're older than you.You're too short. He'd never seen it.Yeah, they'd never seen it. But then once they let him play and Jackson's good at football, then they're like, Oh, wait. Okay, this is cool. We're good.But it's allowing him He's going to have to figure that out. We've talked about this on our podcast, not to plug our podcast again.Hey, go listen to their podcast right now. If you're not subscribing to... It's not New Heights. Raising Heights.Raising Heights.Raising Heights.I apologize.New Heights is a good one, too, though. We say this. I truly believe sometimes parenting with someone with disabilities... Parenting is hard, regardless, and we don't do it.There's times weWe're perfect. We don't make any mistakes. We need improvement. But But I truly believe raising someone with a disability, the parenting might have to be a notched up one. You don't get the same luxuries as other parents. Tori doesn't get the same luxury to be able to be as relatable with other moms. How many times have you had a conversation? Like, your kids are getting so big. Our kids aren't getting big. Our kids aren't in the same gross spurts as every other mom's kids. You know what I'm saying? Those conversations. But then also parenting They're going to have different challenges than every other kid, too. They're not going to be able to get away with as much. Or I would say, confidence-wise, we want to develop confident kids. If you're 6'4, but really immature, but super You're looking, you can probably get a girlfriend still. You know what I'm saying? They'll ignore that. If you're 5, 4, 4,50/50 for us to have kids with Dwarfism.I heard you explain this on your podcast.And so that's, I think, unique for us because a lot of our friends that have one person of average height and one person who has Dwarfism, they have at least one kid who doesn't have Dwarfism. But we locked out, got all three.Are you planning on more babies?You're like, We got three. We are done. Yes.We're feeling a little outnumbered at the moment. Our kids are great, but it's not just our kids. Laila had a surgery. Josiah has a surgery coming up. Jackson's already had a leg surgery. There's certain medical things with kids with Dwarfism.But then also having three C-sections, I'm done. My body, I don't think we can take anymore. We're content.Do you know, based on ultrasound, if the baby is going to have Dauphism?Yeah, third trimester. Oh, you don't know until the third trimester. Which also was fine because all my girlfriends, when had babies, their last scan would be at 20 weeks, where we got to go until 30, 40 weeks to track the baby.But we got all the- We knew before the doctors told us, though. We knew. Really? Yeah.I know what this looks like. Our doctor was Especially with Jackson, she was a little nervous, I think, to tell us because you never know how a parent is going to react to their child having some diagnosis.I saw the nose, I saw the forehead.She comes in with this piece of paper and there's red all over it. She sits down and takes a deep breath. I think we said it before her. We're like, Okay, so he has Dwarfism? You could just tell.She was like, Yeah, you did.Okay, we're good.By Josiah, they were telling us the second week.Was that a question? Obviously, everyone, the question I was like, Do you want a boy or a girl? It's like, Oh, which one do you want? Was that a question for you guys? Do you want a child that has Dwarfism? Or not with Dwarfism, were people asking you guys that question?Oh, 100%.I think it would be rather bizarre for us to go, Oh, yeah, we really hope our kid has twerfism and is different from the rest. I feel like that was always such a weird question because who would say that?One understand. That's where it gets tough. The question- Maybe it was your twerf army comment. No, we love our kids. We love our kids. But I would not choose that for my kids. There is a lot of suffering. There's a lot of mental toughness that needs to happen. There's a lot of medical complications that come from it. You know what I'm saying? But it's It's tough to say that. When I say this, people will say, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you. But it's like, no, reality is like, yeah, I would not wish dwarfism on my kids necessarily. No one would pick Dwarfism over average height. You know what I'm saying? People might say they will. No, because they know it's not actually possible. It's not possible for me to actually redo my... You know what I'm saying? A genie is not right here. So they'll say for their own security. But it's like, no, there is a lot of things that can happen.I think that's where something that we've talked a lot about lately is the question of why would you bring kids into the world if they were going to be different and have a disability?When you know that you could have someone with Yeah.I think that as much as we would never wish that upon someone, that does not mean that your child cannot live a fulfilled life just because they have dysmorphism.It'd be super inspiring and be happy and all these things. It is this conflict.It's back to another- But it's the same as you asked a parent, Do you want your kid to be born with four fingers or five fingers? Their life is still probably going to be pretty fulfilled if they have four fingers on one hand. But no one's going to say four fingers. No one's going to say, I really hope my kid only has four fingers.That's a really good way of putting it.You mentioned surgeries. Are there certain surgeries that people with whorephism, actually. Oh, what did you say? Or that's the pressure of not having story lines is when you're on your other TV, they're always asking, What are you guys doing this week? And you almost feel like lame.Like going to all these.But really, you're normal. But it's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not skydiving every other week. You know what I'm saying? That's not normal.We're in this season right now, too, that our kids are going through it with medical stuff. It's nice not to have the cameras there. It's nice to do it on our terms and on our- Jackson had a second leg surgery, and we didn't share it He asked us not to share. I think that was a huge point where Zack and I looked at us like, Okay, what does this meanalways have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together.Intentionality. It's cool to see how you guys have respected your family, your kids, and just wanted the best for them, clearly.It's clear that leaving the show was probably... I mean, you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision, but it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family. How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own family?You just experience it, you get burned or whatever, and then you realize, Hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot... I'm a very passive guy, and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, it does light something under you where it's like, This is not happening, or we're separating from or we're doing that.I think when you intertwine business with family, it gets super complicated.so much wisdom.Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.Zack trying his Instagram.I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.They all think it's me.Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.Look at you.Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.

, and the next day, the MVP goes to Disneyland. So Patrick Mahomes goes to Disneyland the next day, and we're sitting there watching the parade, and all of a sudden, this woman comes up to me crying. And she was like, So excited to meet me. And I'm literally like, Honey, Patrick Mahomes is right there. But she was so safe to meet me and say hi.

His wife is best friends with Taylor Swift. It's usually only when he People recognize him or family members. Tori is starting to get there, though. I know. Starting. People recognize her without me. Every once in a while. That's so funny.

That's fun. I know you said you're not technically a Disney adult, but I would say we are in a way. We definitely are. We just love the parks and taking our kids. When you see your kids go, too, it just makes it really special.

Oh, totally.

That's what it is. If the kids are loving it, the family is loving it, I love it. But I would not go.

He would not choose it on the same.

Yeah, I would go.

Three kids. How is life with three? Because we have two, and I feel like it can be a bit hectic, but I'm curious how three He feels being outnumbered.

Yeah, it speeds up pretty fast.

You are outnumbered. You can feel it.

Every kid is different. Our first kid, we're like, Oh, this is great. And then the second kid, Okay, it's doable. She'll have the baby, I'll have Jackson, or She'll have Laila. I'll have Jackson. Or vice versa. I'll take Laila. But then, yeah, three. Hard as with three right now. It's all great. But Jackson's in one speed. He wants to go outside and ride bikes or hike. Others can't do that yet. You know what I'm saying? You have three kids all at different play speeds. You know what I'm saying? One, the baby is indoors, crawling. Or Josiah is not crawling. He's walking now. But you know what I'm saying a little bit? You're at these different phases or nap times are different. Jackson's not in nap anymore. Josiah is still taking two naps. I thought that was one of the harder things. It's just you have different... And they all have different needs. Jackson is still craving for that one-on-one that he remembers there's that one-on-one attention. So he's constantly trying to crave for that. But then Laila is stuck in the middle. We bounce her back and forth. Hey, go hang with Jackson, or she's with Josiah.

She goes in between of being the baby to be with the older kids. And then Josiah is just trying to figure it all out.

Josiah has such bad FOMO. He's only two, and he cannot chill. If the kids are outside, he needs to be outside. If the kids are doing rides, he needs to... Sometimes you're Dude, you're two. You cannot do everything that everyone else is doing. And that's hard.

That would be like, yeah, you got a lot of different needs, and you want to fulfill all them, but you can't.

We're only two people. We only got four hands. So what was... This is the infamous question, but what was the hardest transition? Zero to one, one to two, 2-3?

My world got rocked from one to two. From going from our... Our oldest was also so easy. And I say this, we talk about Laila all the time about being our difficult one, and she's so chill now, but as a baby, she was hard. And going from our first being so easy dream, no problems with anything, to a baby who was very colicky and threw up a lot. It just took a lot of time.

Jackson wasn't super about it. Jackson did not like her. Yeah.

He was like, Send that thing back. It's not just her.

I think it was mom and dad's focus. For sure. You went from, That's your boy. Now you're, Hey, Jack, I'm sorry. You need to play by yourself. We need to do this with the baby or whatever. That concept. I'm very big on child psychology. In another world, I would have been a child psychologist. The selfishness of kids and the self-centeredness that they have. The world revolves around them. Then when they come to these moments of not, but they're trying to still seek that out. How do I please? How do I find that again. That was probably the toughest. You agree. What did you say going to one to two. Yeah, one to two for sure. Then three, you're just in.

Three was just like, he was always here. He just rolled in.

When Jackson and Laila both loved Josiah as a baby, Jackson's response to Laila being born and then Josiah was totally different. He was all about it.

Laila was like such a little mother hen that she just stuck right into it.

100%.

One to two was rough, though.

You made it a pretty big announcement not too long ago that you were leaving the show, Little People, Big World. With being on reality TV for so long, I think Abby was like, Matt, the show has been going on for over 20 seasons. 25. That's insane. That's It's crazy how many seasons have aird. I'm curious how, still on the topic of kids, how you talk to your children about TV and about when you're at Disney and someone comes up and says hi to you, how do you How do you talk to your kid about that?

It's our burden. I would say it's when a fan comes up, the kids don't really vibe with fans a lot. And I get it. And sometimes fans are great, but there are fans in a reality TV setting, they think they know us. They think they know our kids. It's the path we chose to show them on the TV, and we show them on social media. But then it's our burden in person to handle that. Most of the time, if a fan walks up to us, it's Jackson, Keep going or follow mom. And then that's our burden to handle that interaction.

I would say it wasn't the only... There were so many reasons why we left the show. It wasn't the only reason, But that was a big part of it was our kids all of a sudden were becoming more aware of people recognizing them or having to come in from school and film. And that wasn't what they wanted to do. And so I felt like that was It's a big reason for us stepping away being like, we want to give our kids more space. We want to give them a little bit more- It's a stressor, too.

I feel like reality TV is a different industry than a lot of other industries. If someone works at Intel or Nike, like dad works at Nike. Mom's at home taking care of the kids, great. And then dad distributes, pays for the family to do whatever. Reality TV, it's a little different. It's not me. It's not just Tori. You're not a show without the family. The kids are the employees also. You know what I'm saying? It all relies. We're all building the family wealth together. You know what I'm saying a little bit? It's a little less just dad is making the actual money. The whole family is growing together. The dad, the family supports or the mom, whatever. But reality television, there's some production days. If the kids aren't into it, it's stressful for us because the Those days got more. Then it was time to say, Hey... Again, there's a lot of other reasons, though, but we're like, Hey, this is a good point where we need to isolate this and become a little bit more mom and dad or the breadwinners. That's not the kid's burden, and that's not their... They already have so much other stressful things in their life, like eating vegetables and going to bed on that.

So you don't need to also add adult stress to them, too.

Isn't it so interesting, though? Because, okay, obviously for a A very long time. For thousands of thousands of years, kids have been a part of helping take care of the family farm or whatever. Kids have always been involved in family businesses in one way or another. Obviously, with child labor laws in the past century, that's been really good to help protect kids and make sure that they're going to school with reality TV. It's not just like they're helping the family business, but their private life is out as well. And a kid that is helping take care of a family farm, it's not like the whole country knows the inner details of their life.

I would say, yeah, it's a very public job versus to us.Yeah. Some people are like, You have dwarfism, and this is this. We just went to LPA, and he's literally like, Dad, why are you playing with all the kids? You know what I'm saying? The kids, the other adults, my size. These aren't kids. These are adults. He thinks I'm the only-Because of their size, kid and everything, that's, I think, has changed our outlook on how kids interact because it was him just simply stating a fact.He was not being malicious. He was not being a bully. He was just like, You're too short. You can't play with us. We're older than you.You're too short. He'd never seen it.Yeah, they'd never seen it. But then once they let him play and Jackson's good at football, then they're like, Oh, wait. Okay, this is cool. We're good.But it's allowing him He's going to have to figure that out. We've talked about this on our podcast, not to plug our podcast again.Hey, go listen to their podcast right now. If you're not subscribing to... It's not New Heights. Raising Heights.Raising Heights.Raising Heights.I apologize.New Heights is a good one, too, though. We say this. I truly believe sometimes parenting with someone with disabilities... Parenting is hard, regardless, and we don't do it.There's times weWe're perfect. We don't make any mistakes. We need improvement. But But I truly believe raising someone with a disability, the parenting might have to be a notched up one. You don't get the same luxuries as other parents. Tori doesn't get the same luxury to be able to be as relatable with other moms. How many times have you had a conversation? Like, your kids are getting so big. Our kids aren't getting big. Our kids aren't in the same gross spurts as every other mom's kids. You know what I'm saying? Those conversations. But then also parenting They're going to have different challenges than every other kid, too. They're not going to be able to get away with as much. Or I would say, confidence-wise, we want to develop confident kids. If you're 6'4, but really immature, but super You're looking, you can probably get a girlfriend still. You know what I'm saying? They'll ignore that. If you're 5, 4, 4,50/50 for us to have kids with Dwarfism.I heard you explain this on your podcast.And so that's, I think, unique for us because a lot of our friends that have one person of average height and one person who has Dwarfism, they have at least one kid who doesn't have Dwarfism. But we locked out, got all three.Are you planning on more babies?You're like, We got three. We are done. Yes.We're feeling a little outnumbered at the moment. Our kids are great, but it's not just our kids. Laila had a surgery. Josiah has a surgery coming up. Jackson's already had a leg surgery. There's certain medical things with kids with Dwarfism.But then also having three C-sections, I'm done. My body, I don't think we can take anymore. We're content.Do you know, based on ultrasound, if the baby is going to have Dauphism?Yeah, third trimester. Oh, you don't know until the third trimester. Which also was fine because all my girlfriends, when had babies, their last scan would be at 20 weeks, where we got to go until 30, 40 weeks to track the baby.But we got all the- We knew before the doctors told us, though. We knew. Really? Yeah.I know what this looks like. Our doctor was Especially with Jackson, she was a little nervous, I think, to tell us because you never know how a parent is going to react to their child having some diagnosis.I saw the nose, I saw the forehead.She comes in with this piece of paper and there's red all over it. She sits down and takes a deep breath. I think we said it before her. We're like, Okay, so he has Dwarfism? You could just tell.She was like, Yeah, you did.Okay, we're good.By Josiah, they were telling us the second week.Was that a question? Obviously, everyone, the question I was like, Do you want a boy or a girl? It's like, Oh, which one do you want? Was that a question for you guys? Do you want a child that has Dwarfism? Or not with Dwarfism, were people asking you guys that question?Oh, 100%.I think it would be rather bizarre for us to go, Oh, yeah, we really hope our kid has twerfism and is different from the rest. I feel like that was always such a weird question because who would say that?One understand. That's where it gets tough. The question- Maybe it was your twerf army comment. No, we love our kids. We love our kids. But I would not choose that for my kids. There is a lot of suffering. There's a lot of mental toughness that needs to happen. There's a lot of medical complications that come from it. You know what I'm saying? But it's It's tough to say that. When I say this, people will say, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you. But it's like, no, reality is like, yeah, I would not wish dwarfism on my kids necessarily. No one would pick Dwarfism over average height. You know what I'm saying? People might say they will. No, because they know it's not actually possible. It's not possible for me to actually redo my... You know what I'm saying? A genie is not right here. So they'll say for their own security. But it's like, no, there is a lot of things that can happen.I think that's where something that we've talked a lot about lately is the question of why would you bring kids into the world if they were going to be different and have a disability?When you know that you could have someone with Yeah.I think that as much as we would never wish that upon someone, that does not mean that your child cannot live a fulfilled life just because they have dysmorphism.It'd be super inspiring and be happy and all these things. It is this conflict.It's back to another- But it's the same as you asked a parent, Do you want your kid to be born with four fingers or five fingers? Their life is still probably going to be pretty fulfilled if they have four fingers on one hand. But no one's going to say four fingers. No one's going to say, I really hope my kid only has four fingers.That's a really good way of putting it.You mentioned surgeries. Are there certain surgeries that people with whorephism, actually. Oh, what did you say? Or that's the pressure of not having story lines is when you're on your other TV, they're always asking, What are you guys doing this week? And you almost feel like lame.Like going to all these.But really, you're normal. But it's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not skydiving every other week. You know what I'm saying? That's not normal.We're in this season right now, too, that our kids are going through it with medical stuff. It's nice not to have the cameras there. It's nice to do it on our terms and on our- Jackson had a second leg surgery, and we didn't share it He asked us not to share. I think that was a huge point where Zack and I looked at us like, Okay, what does this meanalways have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together.Intentionality. It's cool to see how you guys have respected your family, your kids, and just wanted the best for them, clearly.It's clear that leaving the show was probably... I mean, you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision, but it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family. How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own family?You just experience it, you get burned or whatever, and then you realize, Hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot... I'm a very passive guy, and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, it does light something under you where it's like, This is not happening, or we're separating from or we're doing that.I think when you intertwine business with family, it gets super complicated.so much wisdom.Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.Zack trying his Instagram.I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.They all think it's me.Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.Look at you.Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.

to us.

Yeah. Some people are like, You have dwarfism, and this is this. We just went to LPA, and he's literally like, Dad, why are you playing with all the kids? You know what I'm saying? The kids, the other adults, my size. These aren't kids. These are adults. He thinks I'm the only-Because of their size, kid and everything, that's, I think, has changed our outlook on how kids interact because it was him just simply stating a fact.He was not being malicious. He was not being a bully. He was just like, You're too short. You can't play with us. We're older than you.You're too short. He'd never seen it.Yeah, they'd never seen it. But then once they let him play and Jackson's good at football, then they're like, Oh, wait. Okay, this is cool. We're good.But it's allowing him He's going to have to figure that out. We've talked about this on our podcast, not to plug our podcast again.Hey, go listen to their podcast right now. If you're not subscribing to... It's not New Heights. Raising Heights.Raising Heights.Raising Heights.I apologize.New Heights is a good one, too, though. We say this. I truly believe sometimes parenting with someone with disabilities... Parenting is hard, regardless, and we don't do it.There's times weWe're perfect. We don't make any mistakes. We need improvement. But But I truly believe raising someone with a disability, the parenting might have to be a notched up one. You don't get the same luxuries as other parents. Tori doesn't get the same luxury to be able to be as relatable with other moms. How many times have you had a conversation? Like, your kids are getting so big. Our kids aren't getting big. Our kids aren't in the same gross spurts as every other mom's kids. You know what I'm saying? Those conversations. But then also parenting They're going to have different challenges than every other kid, too. They're not going to be able to get away with as much. Or I would say, confidence-wise, we want to develop confident kids. If you're 6'4, but really immature, but super You're looking, you can probably get a girlfriend still. You know what I'm saying? They'll ignore that. If you're 5, 4, 4,50/50 for us to have kids with Dwarfism.I heard you explain this on your podcast.And so that's, I think, unique for us because a lot of our friends that have one person of average height and one person who has Dwarfism, they have at least one kid who doesn't have Dwarfism. But we locked out, got all three.Are you planning on more babies?You're like, We got three. We are done. Yes.We're feeling a little outnumbered at the moment. Our kids are great, but it's not just our kids. Laila had a surgery. Josiah has a surgery coming up. Jackson's already had a leg surgery. There's certain medical things with kids with Dwarfism.But then also having three C-sections, I'm done. My body, I don't think we can take anymore. We're content.Do you know, based on ultrasound, if the baby is going to have Dauphism?Yeah, third trimester. Oh, you don't know until the third trimester. Which also was fine because all my girlfriends, when had babies, their last scan would be at 20 weeks, where we got to go until 30, 40 weeks to track the baby.But we got all the- We knew before the doctors told us, though. We knew. Really? Yeah.I know what this looks like. Our doctor was Especially with Jackson, she was a little nervous, I think, to tell us because you never know how a parent is going to react to their child having some diagnosis.I saw the nose, I saw the forehead.She comes in with this piece of paper and there's red all over it. She sits down and takes a deep breath. I think we said it before her. We're like, Okay, so he has Dwarfism? You could just tell.She was like, Yeah, you did.Okay, we're good.By Josiah, they were telling us the second week.Was that a question? Obviously, everyone, the question I was like, Do you want a boy or a girl? It's like, Oh, which one do you want? Was that a question for you guys? Do you want a child that has Dwarfism? Or not with Dwarfism, were people asking you guys that question?Oh, 100%.I think it would be rather bizarre for us to go, Oh, yeah, we really hope our kid has twerfism and is different from the rest. I feel like that was always such a weird question because who would say that?One understand. That's where it gets tough. The question- Maybe it was your twerf army comment. No, we love our kids. We love our kids. But I would not choose that for my kids. There is a lot of suffering. There's a lot of mental toughness that needs to happen. There's a lot of medical complications that come from it. You know what I'm saying? But it's It's tough to say that. When I say this, people will say, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you. But it's like, no, reality is like, yeah, I would not wish dwarfism on my kids necessarily. No one would pick Dwarfism over average height. You know what I'm saying? People might say they will. No, because they know it's not actually possible. It's not possible for me to actually redo my... You know what I'm saying? A genie is not right here. So they'll say for their own security. But it's like, no, there is a lot of things that can happen.I think that's where something that we've talked a lot about lately is the question of why would you bring kids into the world if they were going to be different and have a disability?When you know that you could have someone with Yeah.I think that as much as we would never wish that upon someone, that does not mean that your child cannot live a fulfilled life just because they have dysmorphism.It'd be super inspiring and be happy and all these things. It is this conflict.It's back to another- But it's the same as you asked a parent, Do you want your kid to be born with four fingers or five fingers? Their life is still probably going to be pretty fulfilled if they have four fingers on one hand. But no one's going to say four fingers. No one's going to say, I really hope my kid only has four fingers.That's a really good way of putting it.You mentioned surgeries. Are there certain surgeries that people with whorephism, actually. Oh, what did you say? Or that's the pressure of not having story lines is when you're on your other TV, they're always asking, What are you guys doing this week? And you almost feel like lame.Like going to all these.But really, you're normal. But it's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not skydiving every other week. You know what I'm saying? That's not normal.We're in this season right now, too, that our kids are going through it with medical stuff. It's nice not to have the cameras there. It's nice to do it on our terms and on our- Jackson had a second leg surgery, and we didn't share it He asked us not to share. I think that was a huge point where Zack and I looked at us like, Okay, what does this meanalways have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together.Intentionality. It's cool to see how you guys have respected your family, your kids, and just wanted the best for them, clearly.It's clear that leaving the show was probably... I mean, you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision, but it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family. How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own family?You just experience it, you get burned or whatever, and then you realize, Hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot... I'm a very passive guy, and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, it does light something under you where it's like, This is not happening, or we're separating from or we're doing that.I think when you intertwine business with family, it gets super complicated.so much wisdom.Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.Zack trying his Instagram.I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.They all think it's me.Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.Look at you.Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.

kid and everything, that's, I think, has changed our outlook on how kids interact because it was him just simply stating a fact.

He was not being malicious. He was not being a bully. He was just like, You're too short. You can't play with us. We're older than you.

You're too short. He'd never seen it.

Yeah, they'd never seen it. But then once they let him play and Jackson's good at football, then they're like, Oh, wait. Okay, this is cool. We're good.

But it's allowing him He's going to have to figure that out. We've talked about this on our podcast, not to plug our podcast again.

Hey, go listen to their podcast right now. If you're not subscribing to... It's not New Heights. Raising Heights.

Raising Heights.

Raising Heights.

I apologize.

New Heights is a good one, too, though. We say this. I truly believe sometimes parenting with someone with disabilities... Parenting is hard, regardless, and we don't do it.There's times weWe're perfect. We don't make any mistakes. We need improvement. But But I truly believe raising someone with a disability, the parenting might have to be a notched up one. You don't get the same luxuries as other parents. Tori doesn't get the same luxury to be able to be as relatable with other moms. How many times have you had a conversation? Like, your kids are getting so big. Our kids aren't getting big. Our kids aren't in the same gross spurts as every other mom's kids. You know what I'm saying? Those conversations. But then also parenting They're going to have different challenges than every other kid, too. They're not going to be able to get away with as much. Or I would say, confidence-wise, we want to develop confident kids. If you're 6'4, but really immature, but super You're looking, you can probably get a girlfriend still. You know what I'm saying? They'll ignore that. If you're 5, 4, 4,50/50 for us to have kids with Dwarfism.I heard you explain this on your podcast.And so that's, I think, unique for us because a lot of our friends that have one person of average height and one person who has Dwarfism, they have at least one kid who doesn't have Dwarfism. But we locked out, got all three.Are you planning on more babies?You're like, We got three. We are done. Yes.We're feeling a little outnumbered at the moment. Our kids are great, but it's not just our kids. Laila had a surgery. Josiah has a surgery coming up. Jackson's already had a leg surgery. There's certain medical things with kids with Dwarfism.But then also having three C-sections, I'm done. My body, I don't think we can take anymore. We're content.Do you know, based on ultrasound, if the baby is going to have Dauphism?Yeah, third trimester. Oh, you don't know until the third trimester. Which also was fine because all my girlfriends, when had babies, their last scan would be at 20 weeks, where we got to go until 30, 40 weeks to track the baby.But we got all the- We knew before the doctors told us, though. We knew. Really? Yeah.I know what this looks like. Our doctor was Especially with Jackson, she was a little nervous, I think, to tell us because you never know how a parent is going to react to their child having some diagnosis.I saw the nose, I saw the forehead.She comes in with this piece of paper and there's red all over it. She sits down and takes a deep breath. I think we said it before her. We're like, Okay, so he has Dwarfism? You could just tell.She was like, Yeah, you did.Okay, we're good.By Josiah, they were telling us the second week.Was that a question? Obviously, everyone, the question I was like, Do you want a boy or a girl? It's like, Oh, which one do you want? Was that a question for you guys? Do you want a child that has Dwarfism? Or not with Dwarfism, were people asking you guys that question?Oh, 100%.I think it would be rather bizarre for us to go, Oh, yeah, we really hope our kid has twerfism and is different from the rest. I feel like that was always such a weird question because who would say that?One understand. That's where it gets tough. The question- Maybe it was your twerf army comment. No, we love our kids. We love our kids. But I would not choose that for my kids. There is a lot of suffering. There's a lot of mental toughness that needs to happen. There's a lot of medical complications that come from it. You know what I'm saying? But it's It's tough to say that. When I say this, people will say, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you. But it's like, no, reality is like, yeah, I would not wish dwarfism on my kids necessarily. No one would pick Dwarfism over average height. You know what I'm saying? People might say they will. No, because they know it's not actually possible. It's not possible for me to actually redo my... You know what I'm saying? A genie is not right here. So they'll say for their own security. But it's like, no, there is a lot of things that can happen.I think that's where something that we've talked a lot about lately is the question of why would you bring kids into the world if they were going to be different and have a disability?When you know that you could have someone with Yeah.I think that as much as we would never wish that upon someone, that does not mean that your child cannot live a fulfilled life just because they have dysmorphism.It'd be super inspiring and be happy and all these things. It is this conflict.It's back to another- But it's the same as you asked a parent, Do you want your kid to be born with four fingers or five fingers? Their life is still probably going to be pretty fulfilled if they have four fingers on one hand. But no one's going to say four fingers. No one's going to say, I really hope my kid only has four fingers.That's a really good way of putting it.You mentioned surgeries. Are there certain surgeries that people with whorephism, actually. Oh, what did you say? Or that's the pressure of not having story lines is when you're on your other TV, they're always asking, What are you guys doing this week? And you almost feel like lame.Like going to all these.But really, you're normal. But it's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not skydiving every other week. You know what I'm saying? That's not normal.We're in this season right now, too, that our kids are going through it with medical stuff. It's nice not to have the cameras there. It's nice to do it on our terms and on our- Jackson had a second leg surgery, and we didn't share it He asked us not to share. I think that was a huge point where Zack and I looked at us like, Okay, what does this meanalways have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together.Intentionality. It's cool to see how you guys have respected your family, your kids, and just wanted the best for them, clearly.It's clear that leaving the show was probably... I mean, you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision, but it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family. How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own family?You just experience it, you get burned or whatever, and then you realize, Hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot... I'm a very passive guy, and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, it does light something under you where it's like, This is not happening, or we're separating from or we're doing that.I think when you intertwine business with family, it gets super complicated.so much wisdom.Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.Zack trying his Instagram.I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.They all think it's me.Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.Look at you.Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.

50/50 for us to have kids with Dwarfism.

I heard you explain this on your podcast.

And so that's, I think, unique for us because a lot of our friends that have one person of average height and one person who has Dwarfism, they have at least one kid who doesn't have Dwarfism. But we locked out, got all three.

Are you planning on more babies?

You're like, We got three. We are done. Yes.

We're feeling a little outnumbered at the moment. Our kids are great, but it's not just our kids. Laila had a surgery. Josiah has a surgery coming up. Jackson's already had a leg surgery. There's certain medical things with kids with Dwarfism.

But then also having three C-sections, I'm done. My body, I don't think we can take anymore. We're content.

Do you know, based on ultrasound, if the baby is going to have Dauphism?

Yeah, third trimester. Oh, you don't know until the third trimester. Which also was fine because all my girlfriends, when had babies, their last scan would be at 20 weeks, where we got to go until 30, 40 weeks to track the baby.

But we got all the- We knew before the doctors told us, though. We knew. Really? Yeah.

I know what this looks like. Our doctor was Especially with Jackson, she was a little nervous, I think, to tell us because you never know how a parent is going to react to their child having some diagnosis.

I saw the nose, I saw the forehead.

She comes in with this piece of paper and there's red all over it. She sits down and takes a deep breath. I think we said it before her. We're like, Okay, so he has Dwarfism? You could just tell.

She was like, Yeah, you did.

Okay, we're good.

By Josiah, they were telling us the second week.

Was that a question? Obviously, everyone, the question I was like, Do you want a boy or a girl? It's like, Oh, which one do you want? Was that a question for you guys? Do you want a child that has Dwarfism? Or not with Dwarfism, were people asking you guys that question?

Oh, 100%.

I think it would be rather bizarre for us to go, Oh, yeah, we really hope our kid has twerfism and is different from the rest. I feel like that was always such a weird question because who would say that?

One understand. That's where it gets tough. The question- Maybe it was your twerf army comment. No, we love our kids. We love our kids. But I would not choose that for my kids. There is a lot of suffering. There's a lot of mental toughness that needs to happen. There's a lot of medical complications that come from it. You know what I'm saying? But it's It's tough to say that. When I say this, people will say, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you. But it's like, no, reality is like, yeah, I would not wish dwarfism on my kids necessarily. No one would pick Dwarfism over average height. You know what I'm saying? People might say they will. No, because they know it's not actually possible. It's not possible for me to actually redo my... You know what I'm saying? A genie is not right here. So they'll say for their own security. But it's like, no, there is a lot of things that can happen.

I think that's where something that we've talked a lot about lately is the question of why would you bring kids into the world if they were going to be different and have a disability?

When you know that you could have someone with Yeah.

I think that as much as we would never wish that upon someone, that does not mean that your child cannot live a fulfilled life just because they have dysmorphism.

It'd be super inspiring and be happy and all these things. It is this conflict.

It's back to another- But it's the same as you asked a parent, Do you want your kid to be born with four fingers or five fingers? Their life is still probably going to be pretty fulfilled if they have four fingers on one hand. But no one's going to say four fingers. No one's going to say, I really hope my kid only has four fingers.

That's a really good way of putting it.

You mentioned surgeries. Are there certain surgeries that people with whorephism, actually. Oh, what did you say? Or that's the pressure of not having story lines is when you're on your other TV, they're always asking, What are you guys doing this week? And you almost feel like lame.Like going to all these.But really, you're normal. But it's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not skydiving every other week. You know what I'm saying? That's not normal.We're in this season right now, too, that our kids are going through it with medical stuff. It's nice not to have the cameras there. It's nice to do it on our terms and on our- Jackson had a second leg surgery, and we didn't share it He asked us not to share. I think that was a huge point where Zack and I looked at us like, Okay, what does this meanalways have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together.Intentionality. It's cool to see how you guys have respected your family, your kids, and just wanted the best for them, clearly.It's clear that leaving the show was probably... I mean, you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision, but it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family. How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own family?You just experience it, you get burned or whatever, and then you realize, Hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot... I'm a very passive guy, and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, it does light something under you where it's like, This is not happening, or we're separating from or we're doing that.I think when you intertwine business with family, it gets super complicated.so much wisdom.Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.Zack trying his Instagram.I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.They all think it's me.Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.Look at you.Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.

, actually. Oh, what did you say? Or that's the pressure of not having story lines is when you're on your other TV, they're always asking, What are you guys doing this week? And you almost feel like lame.

Like going to all these.

But really, you're normal. But it's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not skydiving every other week. You know what I'm saying? That's not normal.

We're in this season right now, too, that our kids are going through it with medical stuff. It's nice not to have the cameras there. It's nice to do it on our terms and on our- Jackson had a second leg surgery, and we didn't share it He asked us not to share. I think that was a huge point where Zack and I looked at us like, Okay, what does this meanalways have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together.Intentionality. It's cool to see how you guys have respected your family, your kids, and just wanted the best for them, clearly.It's clear that leaving the show was probably... I mean, you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision, but it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family. How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own family?You just experience it, you get burned or whatever, and then you realize, Hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot... I'm a very passive guy, and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, it does light something under you where it's like, This is not happening, or we're separating from or we're doing that.I think when you intertwine business with family, it gets super complicated.so much wisdom.Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.Zack trying his Instagram.I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.They all think it's me.Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.Look at you.Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.

always have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together.

Intentionality. It's cool to see how you guys have respected your family, your kids, and just wanted the best for them, clearly.

It's clear that leaving the show was probably... I mean, you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision, but it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family. How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own family?

You just experience it, you get burned or whatever, and then you realize, Hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot... I'm a very passive guy, and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, it does light something under you where it's like, This is not happening, or we're separating from or we're doing that.

I think when you intertwine business with family, it gets super complicated.so much wisdom.Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.Zack trying his Instagram.I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.They all think it's me.Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.Look at you.Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.

so much wisdom.

Yeah, I hope I hope that... I truly want to make sure that people, hopefully, are educated in some way by the episode and maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. If you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go Go check out Tori and Zack's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes, and I think you guys are great. Where else can people find you besides your podcast?

My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram.

Zack trying his Instagram.

I'll All those things on my Instagram, and they think it's Tori.

They all think it's me.

Tori's Instagram, our YouTube, and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you listen to your podcast.

Look at you.

Good job.. That's like every podcaster ever or wherever you get your podcast.

I thought they were telling podcasters to say that. And then I was like, no, we just all do it.

Well, thank you guys. I appreciate you being here.