Sitting down today to talk about Dinosaurs and Fears with one of the greatest mixed martial artists of our time, of any time. He won UFC belts in two different weight classes, and you can't even talk about the sport without mentioning him. I'm really honored to be in his presence today, and I mean that. Today's guest is Mr. Georges St. Pierre.

Shine that light on me. I'll sit and tell you my stories. Shine on me. And I will find a song I've been singing just for. I love that song.

This is your country, man.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, because it's French-Canadian, so Which one is the real one? You know what I'm saying? Who's really the boss or whatever?

Paul is no really... I mean, who's the boss? I don't know if there's really a boss.

If you had to pick one, do you get to pick one or every day it's the same? Yeah.

You mean the boss? Talk about the leader.

Yeah.

Most people will tend to say, Oh, it's the political leader. Of Canada or of France? The Prime Minister or the President. But I think, you can call me conspirationist thinking that, but I don't think he's the one that really control everything. I think there's people behind that. Maybe. That's what I believe. I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

That's what I think, too.

Yeah, I think the president is the face.

It's a face. It's the puppet.

But our prime minister is the face. But I think there's people behind that there are certain things that he cannot do. That's what I believe.

Did you always believe that you think or that you think that's grown over the years?

It's a good question. I think it grown over the years. Yeah, same. Especially because there's a lot of... Sometimes there's a lot of conspiracy that turns out to be true. Yeah. There's so much stuff on the Internet nowadays that you can try to search anything, and they will give you something to read about a certain subject, even if it's completely It's completely preposterous. It's hard to know what is real and what is not. But maybe that's the reason why, because of that, it makes me realize that, Oh, what I'm seeing is maybe not really what it is.

Oh, yeah. I think it's fascinating because, yeah, say if a lot of media was all controlled, then, of course, they're going to not want you to know something. Eventually, people are going to figure those things out. People figure things out.

I think it's always about money and power. I know. People that has money and power, what they want is they want more money and more power. I tend to believe that most of people are Mostly in the middle. If you look at politics, you have the extreme right, extreme left. But most people are, I think, mostly in the middle. They're not to one side or the other. The way it's portrayed is that you have to pick one side or the other side, and you're like, Shit, I don't know what to do. You know what I mean? Because I'm stuck in the middle.

Yeah, I think stuck in the middle is probably the best spot. I think most people are probably pretty logical, you would think. But then maybe sometimes I start to wonder, do I give people too much credit? Or a lot of people just bats shit crazy? Then I wonder, sometimes, am I just bats shit crazy? Yeah, it's true.

We have to look at ourselves in the mirror sometimes. It's hard.

Yeah, but I've I'm amazed, I guess, that power and money drives so many people. I get it being an influence, but I think there's a part of me, I guess I'm shocked that it has that much control. What do you think... I mean, you're one-on-one, George. You've had such a... I mean, you got to almost have a perfect career in a lot of ways.

I made tons of mistakes looking at it, and I wish I could do better because I'm very critic about myself. But yeah, I'm happy with what I have accomplished.

Do you think was it power, success, driving you? What was your driving force, do you feel like?

I'll be honest with you, 100%, I never like to fight. I love the sport. I love the science of it. I like the camaraderie that I have with my friend before, like a training camp. It's like you're going to war. I despise fight day. It's unbearable for me. I'm extremely uncomfortable, and not knowing if I will be hurt, humiliated, or winning the ultimate price is unbearable for me. It's very hard to deal with, but it's the price that you have to pay if you want to achieve freedom. For me, I first started doing it because I had a certain natural talent, I would say. If I would be born with an anticap, I would probably not be able to do what I did. So I was a gifted athlete, and I also worked really hard, but I also consider myself extremely lucky. The stars were all aligned because there was There's guys that I've met through my journey that were probably more talented than I was. There's guys that I met that probably worked harder than I did. But I think what made the difference is the fact that I met the right people at the right time.

Sometimes life gave me certain opportunity that I did not shy away. I was always willing to get out of my comfort zone in order to improve. Which is not the case for a lot of athletes, and not only athletes, like entrepreneur.Humans, yeah.Humans. For a human, for all of us, it's hard to get out of our comfort zone, but sometimes it's necessary. It's a necessary evil in order to improve.

Yeah. I think like what you said, because you can control how much you, how hard you work, you can control. Those are a lot of control factors. But that is, that's a risk. When you get out there and you get on a fight day, some of it's out of your control.

I remember that...

Did it feel like that? Is that what it felt like?

It's always a question of risk and reward. It's calculated risk. I remember if I go back more than almost 30 years ago, I couldn't really speak English very well. I learned it at school, but I grew up in a French environment, so my English was really bad. It's hard. Yeah. The first time, I remember I was already a black belt in karate, and I wanted to go to the Gracie Academy in New York because that's where the best jiu-jitsu athlete were training at the time. So I knew that I needed to go there in order to train with the best, to learn from the best. I'm about At that time, I'm about 16, 17 years old, and I'm planning to go there with two of my friends, two that are professional athletes at the time. And one of them, only one of them speak perfect English.

So he's Yeah, and it was not like it is today.

There were not ways, so we had to go on MapQuest, and it was a pain in the butt to find your way. So I'm driving. I got a shitty Ford Tempo with a hole in... I remember where I used to put the break pedal. So people used to make fun of me. It was like the Flintstone. I could almost put my foot on the floor. So the plan was to go in New York, to go there, and we shared the hotel together. We saved money, and we save money and we share the gas and everything. But the day before the trip, one of them called me, and it's the one that speak English. He's like, Hey, George, I cannot make it. I'm like, Are you kidding me? I'm I'm talking to the other one who's supposed to come with me. He's like, Oh, if he's not going, I'm not going either. I'm like, Man. But you know what? I said to my son, I F it. I'm going by myself, and that's it. So I went there, and I remember, Man, I got my ass whooped by a guy who weighs maybe 30 pounds lighter than me.

I got tapped out like in jiu-jitsu, when you're stuck in an umbar or a choke, you have to tap. Otherwise, your umbral You get a break or you get choked out. I remember at the time, I was like, Man, I was getting maul. I was a black belt in car ride. I was a good striker, but in grappling, I didn't have a lot of knowledge. I knew I needed to learn it in order to become a mixed martial arts fighter. But man, I got beat up so bad. I remember driving back. I was that close to give up. I told myself, I said, You know what? I need to go back out there and learn. Every time I was going back there, it was tough for me because guys, a lot of them were trying to bully me. A few of them were very nice to me, but it was a constant grind. I remember the two guys that were supposed to come with me, they asked me, Hey, how was it? I'm like, Man, I got my ass kicked so bad. Man, they never came back with me. They were like, they wanted to stay in their comfort zone.

That's the difference. If you want to succeed, sometimes it's a necessary evil. You're going to go through pain, you're going to might be humiliated, you're going to fail, but then I have to go through that, man, in order to improve. That's what I was ready to do, which is probably the case of other guys. The reason why I was successful is not because I think I was more gifted or I work harder. It's just because I ready to do that sacrifice.

What do you think made you in that space to take that sacrifice? Because I guess it's like... Yeah, I mean, well, giving up is easy. Yeah. I think Saying something is better, saying something's too hard, it's easy. I think unless you're different, I think some people look at that as a challenge and some people look at it as just a reality.

Yeah. I think if you want to be You want to be the best at something. I'm not talking being good, I'm talking about you want to be the best at something. In every field, I think you need to be a little bit obsessed. I was never diagnosed. I never saw a I adjust for it, but I think I'm obsessive compulsive.

Did you notice it when you were young? What things did you see that you would do?

Well, one thing I would do that is completely crazy. It's very stupid, but I used to do... When I walk on the sidewalk, for example, I remember in New York going to train, I walk on the sidewalk, and there is a line on the sidewalk, and I notice that I step over one line with my right foot, but I have to step over with the left to make an equal number. Sometimes these things are so stupid, but it drives you nuts. When I drill techniques in jiu-jitsu, I have to do this, or or any combat sport, I have to do the same amount on each side. Even though in a fight, I will most likely do one side, my best side, but I have to do the other side. I think these things, as crazy as it sound, are probably some of the things that made me perform well.

Because you need things to be even, you need things to be calculated, maybe. Or even the fact that you're even calculating things, it sounds crazy, it sounds obsessive, but it also is magnificent. In a way, because to be great at something, you're going to have to be someone who's calculating things, even in your subconscious.

Also, I think it's good for an athlete for performance, but you need to learn how to let go. You need to learn to punch, punch in and punch out. Sometimes it's hard. I see in the news, sometimes some fighters, they can't do it. They go crazy. They keep going.

Yeah. Like Tony Ferguson, he keeps going. Do you think it's a tough space that he's in? Because it's weird. People love watching him fight, right? It feels like he loves giving himself to the people. It's almost like he shows up just because he knows we're going to love him so much. But you start to think that It's painful for him. I mean, he's had a tough run recently.

Yeah, I love to see him fight. It's just unfortunate because the Tony Ferguson that you see nowadays, it's not the Tony Ferguson that he was when he was in his prime. It depends what he's trying to accomplish. I prioritize my health first, and that's my priority. But some guys, they have a kick of it. They don't care. They prioritize having... I don't know. Some of them, they love to fight. For them, it's an adrenaline. They love it. I never liked it. I did it because I wanted to have the freedom, the life that I have. I used that to propel myself where I wanted to be in life. But some guys, they just love to fight. It's funny because when I was young, I was looking around and I never felt I was at the right place. I remember I seek the help of sports psychologists, and a lot of them, they told me... They were trying to brainwash me. They were like, George, stop saying you're afraid. You're not afraid. You're excited. I'm like, Bro, I'm excited if I, I don't know, if I see a beautiful woman or you know what I mean?

I'm not excited to go fight in a cage. You know what I mean? I'm afraid. Then I realized that I should not be afraid to admit that I'm afraid. There's no courage without fear. When I made peace with it, I knew it was a normal thing and I learned how to control it. But that's why there are some guys, I think they fake it so hard and they don't make peace with it. When the light is on and it's time to perform, they crumble. You see that very often in combat sport. Guys that are very good in the gym, but then when it's time to go, they don't perform as well. You're like, What's going on? That's why, because they don't know how to deal with. They don't know how to domesticate their fear.

They don't know how to manage their fear.

They don't know how to manage it. They don't know how to control their stress. I remember, I think it's Cossomato, the Mike Tyson coach, he says, Fear is like fire. It can help you cook your food, but it can also burn you if you don't know how to control it. One of my sports psychologists used to say to me, he's like, You have butterflies, you have to make them fly in formation. That's one thing he used to tell me all the time. I'm like, That was a good analogy.

That's crazy, man.

I'm sure for you, the same thing. When you do a show, I don't know, are you afraid to mess up and being humiliated? Did it ever happen to you?

Oh, for sure.

You're screwed up. You're like, Shit, this thing doesn't work the way I want. I'm sure it happened. It happened to me. I get hit or you know what I mean? I lose a fight.

Yeah, it wasn't my plan. I ran out of bullets. I ran out of moves. I tried some jokes. It didn't work. Oh, the beginning, you almost go out there because you just want... I think you know it's going to fucking hurt. I think a lot of comics hate themselves a little bit to to be honest. And so they go out there because they know the feeling that the pain, the embarrassment and pain they're going to feel, finally, it'll match how they feel on the inside. So there's a little weirdness in that that things are going to feel a little even in a way. And also a lot of comedians hate themselves so much that the people could never hate them as much as they fucking hate themselves. Or they've talked so badly about themselves in their own You mean you need to be willing to make fun of yourself if you want to do that? Yeah, I think that helps because then certainly at that point, it's like you're using all the tools.

You make fun of others, but you need to be ready to make fun of yourself as well, right? Yeah.

In your head, I think a lot of comedians are like... They have a lot of fear. They have a lot of inferiority. When they're growing up, they probably talk badly to themselves in their head. Then when they're able to joke about themselves, it's almost a way of releasing some of that. It's like they're making fun of themselves, but it's in a way that is bringing joy to people. It almost alleviates some of that, if that makes any sense.

Over the year, that feeling of-It goes away. It goes away for you, yeah. That was my gut. It goes away because-It didn't go away from me. Really? Yeah, it got worse because every fight is bigger than that.

But just the fight. The fight itself, the training and all of that, you're digging.

Training makes me nervous. No, I'm nervous before training because when you train for a fight, you want to perform. When you're in between fight, off-season, now you want to have fun. That's when training is fun. But when you're training for a fight, it's about performance. It's not that fun. It's not fun. Winning is fun, but like Like the fight day would be tough?

I'm sorry? The fight day would be the toughest?

It's terrible. Well, to give you an example, fight day. Every fight day is the worst day of my life. You wake up after a shitty night of sleep When you wake up, you're like... Because you don't sleep well because you make... I make so much scenario in my mind. If you do this, I'm going to do this, and try to cover every possible scenario that can happen. Sometimes you close your eyes, You try to be positive, but sometimes you don't see yourself winning. Sometimes there's certain imagery that pops up in your head that you see yourself losing. But I developed a trick. I'm a firm believer of the power of thinking, of the power of the mind.

Visualization? Yes.

When you have a negative imagery that pops up in your head, it's a sign of intelligence. It's normal. It will happen. Because you're smart, you can You can foresee certain bad outcome, so you need to be prepared. It forces you to... You don't want to finish your visualization on a negative note because it would leave a scar up here. I always force myself when I see myself getting dropped by a punch, then I don't let go. I just force myself, Okay, I'm going to scramble back up and get back in control of the fight, and then I can go on with my life, do whatever I need to do. I think if you only finish on the negative, it could leave a scar. That's one of the things that over the year, I tried to do, and it helped me a lot.

That's powerful. It reminds me of the fight, the first Sarah fight, I think. I know you didn't get the outcome that you wanted, but you stayed alive. I mean, that was a...

Yeah, I got hit so many times.

I was like, jeez, I felt like we were getting hit at home, I remember.

Matt Sara really surprised me because going into that fight was my first title defense. Matt Sara was known for his grappling prowess. He was one of the most decorated jiu-jitsu athlete at the time. I was more worried about his in his round game than his stand-up, but he worked a lot on his stand-up game, and he caught me with a punch that I never saw coming on behind the hair. When he caught me, I remember I got emotional because I wanted to give it back to him right away. This was not supposed to happen. The odds were favoring me, like something like 10 to 1 or something crazy. I wanted to give it back to him right away. Like an idiot, I fall into a slug fest. When you're stunned, you're not accurate because you're dizzy. He was accurate and he hits very hard. I got like a... I can't remember how many punches I got hit with.

You stayed alive, though.

But you know what I did? Because I didn't know where I was, I was so dizzy, I tapped out I got a lot of critiques because he's a quitter. He tapped out on strike and everything. It affect me at the time because I was like, Man, maybe I'm not as good as I think. A lot of people were like, Oh, he's maybe not as good as people think. I needed to build myself mentally from that, and it was very hard because I lost the confidence. Confidence for fire is the most important thing because you can have all the skills in the world. But if you don't have the confidence, if I can make an analogy, it's like someone who has a lot of money in his bank account, but no way of accessing it. I needed to build myself back up, and it was a tough time, I remember.

It's funny you see it that way because I saw it as, wow, I cannot believe how. I think for me, it goes back to what you were saying that if you visualize yourself getting hit, to then finish on a visualization of yourself returning back to form and still being in the bout, because that's what it seemed like to me. I know he got the victory on that one, but…

I tapped out on strike, and I'm not ashamed to say it. A lot of guys that will say… Because there's this thing in our sport that, Oh, he tapped out on strike. You quit. But man, It's a sport. We're not in a war, and I'd rather save myself for another day.

You always seem like that guy. You always seem like this strict... You're always a perfect strategist.

I'm never going to give up until it's finished, but that fight was finished. I was gone. It was a It was a matter of time that I was probably going to fall unconscious. I decided to tap and to save some of my brain cells and come back another day. You did. Yeah. I think there's no shame about it. When that happened At the time, I was ashamed a little bit, and I didn't want to talk about it, but I'm glad I did it.

I'm glad I did it. Well, I think it's easier probably to look back in the path and see the long... To see the whole... All the work. To see it as a whole piece there. What was one of the toughest times you felt in your career? Was that probably it, you think? Because you had just gotten the title. It's your first title defense.

That was bad mentally. The first loss, before that, I lost to Matt Hughes.

Matt Hughes, yeah.

It was more of a learning experience. This was different because it really brought my confidence down. I remember at the time, I had a sports psychologist. He's awesome. I shout out to Brian Cain.

Brian or Ryan?

Brian Cain. He was amazing.

He's deceased? No, he's still around.

He works with pro athlete. He says to me... Because after that fight, immediately, the only thing I was thinking about is to get back out there and get my revenge because I was not proud of my performance. I was like, Man, I'm better than this. I'm better than this guy. I want to go back out there and show the world. My ego wanted to show the world that I am better than this. But the fight that I had was not against Sarah. My other fight, I needed to build to have a few more wins before to return for a title shot. I was not focusing on the right thing. I was focusing on Matt Serra instead of focusing on my next opponent. That could have been very bad. What my sport psychologist did to me, he said, George, you're carrying a lot of brick. I didn't know what it meant at the time, so he made me carry a brick. He made me write the name of Serra with clay on it. And he made me carry that brick in my training Every day, I was going to train with that freaking brick. And in Tri-star, you have to go up the stairs.

It's not a pleasant walk to go to the gym. It's a training of itself. At one point, after a week, I called him and I, Hey, can I get rid of that brick? He's like, No, you keep it. I'm like, Man, this guy is completely insane. I thought that he was crazy. He probably needed a psychologist himself. I kept carrying the brick, carrying. Right the week before before my fight with, I think it was with Joss Koshek, that I was trying to get back to a title shot. I was like, Man, I can't deal with this shit anymore. Can I throw that break out? He's like, Okay, I'm coming. Wait. I went to where the Saint Laurent River is. I threw it, I grabbed it, and I threw it in the water. I know it sounds cool to say, but it was something physical that I did that had a profound change on my mental, it free me from that that needs to prove the world that I want to beat him again. I was able to focus on the immediate task ahead.

Because sometimes that desire, it's a blind desire almost. I need to prove. It's powerful, but it's not effective because it's not calculated. It can be even more dangerous sometimes than anything.

Yeah. I was going in a dangerous path because I was not focusing on the- That's most important. On the most important thing. The fight, I was focusing on the other fight after, but I was about to screw it up bad.

I know whenever you retired, Hendrix... No, the last fight was Bisping.

Bisping was my last fight. That was awesome, dude. Hendrix is after I took a break after Hendrix.

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Yeah, I had a lot of issue. I had a lot of family issue and problem. The thing is, I was a very active fighter, and When you say active, what do you mean?

Fighting often?

Yeah, fighting often. Also, you have to consider that you do a lot of promotion tours and stuff. It takes a lot out of you. Also the stress, you always have someone that is threatening you. Because when you're the contender, you don't have as much stress because you have one target. You want to be champion. You want to go there. That's the benchmark. That's the best, isn't it?

Yes.

It's hard to become champion, but it's even harder to stay champion. There's not a lot of guy that stay champion for a long time. It's very hard because when you're champion, you're the target. When you're the contender, you have one guy starting. Nobody really targets you. But if you get to the title shot, you have only one guy that targets you. When you're the champion, everyone targets you. So you're the target. You don't have much time to prepare for your opponent. And your The opponent has been looking at you for years because he's climbing the rank and he's studying you. He's trying to find a chic in your armor.

Every time they interview any of those guys, they all call your name because you're the guy. Of course.

That's why it is much different. It's much more difficult to stay champion than becoming champion. When you're a champion, it's hard because your life change. You have more responsibility and more... There's a lot more requests and stuff. That's what happened to me at the time. I was doing it for so long and I had so much pressure for so long. I remember at the time, I was shy to talk about it because I was like, if I talk about it before the fight, and I was fighting against... They used to have big problem with performance-enhancing drug in mixed martial. It was a big, big problem.

They got big problems with those at a damn 711, dude. People are shooting up everywhere now.

I never wanted to accuse one individual, but I wanted to change the system. The U. F. Said that I didn't really add my back. They didn't really help me on that. I was fighting against that behind closed door.

Because you were saying some of these guys could be using we have to test stronger.

A hundred %. That's why I did the test when I fought Hendrix. When I fought also B. J. Penn, we did the test because I wanted to implement this. It's crazy because you play basketball, you play soccer, play football, but you don't play fighting. You can lose your brain cells out there. It's different. It makes some people like, Yeah, but it doesn't make that's my head bullshit. It makes you such a... It's a tons of difference, man. I've trained with guys that are openly... They're saying to me, when they are on cycle, it's not even the same person. No. Guys, it changes you, not only stem and strength, recovery, but also your Your brain. Your reaction time, you're more creative. There's things that you would do when you're on it that you would not maybe do when you're not.

You'll start fucking the air when you're on test 700 or whatever, dude. I saw a guy one time, he turned into an animal.

Yeah, 100%. In fighting- That's a risk then because you're at the top.

Obviously, everybody's focused on you. If you're staying clean and you don't know if some of the If some of the testing is up to what you believe is a fair code, then fuck, that would be really scary.

Well, the martial art, I think one of the thing in martial art is the respect and being just, being fair. I mean, these are the traditional value of martial art, and I always tried to carry that with me. I felt like I was in some way, not betrayed, but I felt a a little bit let go. I was just fed up. I just needed to take a time off. That's why I left for more than four years. I'm glad I did it because maybe I should have done it, maybe a fight One fight before.

You can burn out, man. It's so much. People, I don't think, realize that. I can't even imagine the responsibilities. Then, yeah, especially while the sport is still building so much at that time. That was a huge building period for UFC. Just to have interview request, I want you to be here, and you want to do all the things you can do because you feel like you're physically capable. But, yeah, part of you starts to get burned down. I don't know. It's almost like when you light a candle and there's nothing left in it. That's how I feel sometimes.

I remember you just finish a fight, and immediately after, there's another guy calling you out. I'm an obsessive compulsive guy. As soon as another guy calling me out, I'm starting to make scenario in my mind. I'm like, Okay, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, it drive you nuts. When you're the contender, you're on your way up. You don't have that problem. Yeah, of course, when maybe you get to the top five. But before that, nobody noticed you. Nobody care about you. You care about them, but they don't care about you.It's so funny.So when you're on top, now you're the target. Everybody talks shit about you. They disrespect you. If you want it or not, it touches you. Because you say, Oh, you don't bother watching these things, but it touches you. You see, sometimes things get bad. You see the people, they insult each other. People always ask me sometimes, Do you think they went too far? I mean, this is the fight game, man. You can die out there, or you can have certain damage that will make you die in the near future. Oh, yeah.

Be wheelchairing or whatever, anything.

The art of war, man. They're going to try everything to try to make you lose your mind. With so many fights that guys lose their mind. That's one of the reasons why... Everybody knows Conor McGregor. His first title fight against Jose Aldo. He knock him out in something like seven seconds. He pissed off Jose Aldo so much. Jose Aldo lost his mind. He went out of his game plan and tried to rush to him to give it to him. Conor McGregor is an incredible counterpuncher. He just slipped. Boom. That was it. I mean, it was He was very smart from his part to... He taunt Jose Aldo. It was emotional. I believe it was prepared. I believe he put Jose Aldo exactly where he wanted to be. He set it up by all the interview, all the things he said, all the things he done.

He started the fight months before in a way.

When you're in that fight game, another thing that people don't talk about, you never want to show your private life. Because people will use that against you. Talk about people. Me, I can put a shield. If you can insult me, you can say whatever you want. I'm very good at putting a shield, and it's not going to bother me. But talk about someone I love, someone I care about, now it's going to get me. We saw that another time with Connor and Khabib Nurma gomenov, the famous fight.Oh.

Yeah, that was crazy. Yes.

That's the reason why it They went crazy after because they crossed the line. But it's the fight game. That's the fight game. I don't think it's right, but a lot of guys will do that to make you the real.

Do you respect guys just as much as do that? I mean, it's another facet to war in a way, right?

It's the art of war, man. It's combat sport, man. It's kill or be killed, man. They're going to do it.

You think it's evolved more since in the past 15 years? Have you noticed it evolved more over time? It's more of a strategy now, or do you think more people Will see it coming now? What do you think the evolution of that has been of trash talking?

It's a good question. I think what changes is the fact that now we have social media and we're in touch with the world. I can be at home in Montreal and insulting you when you're in Tennessee in two second and you will notice it in real-time. Before, that was not really the case. We didn't have that power. Now you can say something, the whole world sees it and, Oh, did you heard what he That's, I think, what makes the difference.

It's different now. Yes. Do you feel like the testing has gotten better over time in the sport?

Well, now I think it got a little bit worse because-The one company quit, right?

Or one company got laid off.

Usaida.

Right. I interrupted you. I interrupted you. Sorry, George.

No, please. It's true. What happened is they didn't have any testing first. Then they hire, I think USADA. It got much better.

But they test beef and stuff, don't they?

Is it the same group? Usada, I don't think it was it.

Oh, my God. Bro, if the same person testing my pork chops is testing Mike Perry, then I think we got to fucking figure something out. I think both of them are clean, but I'm just saying.

But you saw when USADA just arrived on the scene, a lot of the champions I felt, and they lost a lot of money, but I give them props because they took the lead.

They had to do it. They had to make sure the school was clean.

I'm happy they did it. That's one of the reasons I came back and I fought Bisping because if they would not have made drug tests, I would never have come back. I was like, No way. I'm like, I don't like that. But now I think it- Because it was too...

It just wasn't fair. It just wasn't... It's not fair.

It was insane. It was like too much. I'm never going to say, Hey, this guy, this guy. But when you're in the industry, You know who's who, you know who do what. It's a small world. We all know.

It's like when you're in ninth grade and some kid shows up like that with pimples everywhere, you know what's going on. You know what Ricky's been doing. You know what I'm saying? You just know.

But sometimes it's not even You cannot even notice it physically because certain drugs, for example, EPO will give you a crazy stemina, but might not really changes you physically. There's stuff that people talk, you know who's who, and It was just at the time it was in China. I'm glad that UFC did this. I didn't want to bring UFC down. That was not my intent when I did this. I wanted to elevate the sport, and I'm glad they did it. I think it elevated the sport. Now, they're not with USAID IDA anymore, but I think they hire another organization to do the test. But I do believe that if you want to avoid corruption, it needs to be a separated entity that do the test than the the organization itself.

Is that what they have now?

Right now, it says-I am not sure, but if the organization has power in the testing, it's corrupted. It cannot be corrupted. It needs to be a different entity. Where the organization does not have any power. Because they can't be able to control and say, Hey, let's make this okay and this is not okay. Of course, imagine you have a big fight coming up and the two guys that outlined the car is like one of them test positive. You just screwed up the card and they lose a lot of money. They have an interest in this.

Yeah, this says, Drug-free Sport International will be in charge of the collection process under the new program that begins in January when UFC's deal with USADA ends. This was last year. Former FBI Special Agent George Pierrot, best known for interrogating former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, will be in charge of the new program. That's interesting. You identify people and entities in the space that can make something that is already working well, and you make them better. Ufc vice President Jeff Nowitzky said, You learn that USADA is not the only player in the space, and then a combination of other entities and individuals can actually make your program stronger and better. That's exactly what's happening right now with our program. It's unfortunate. I believe they want Clean guys fighting in there, no doubt.

I believe they want money. I think that's what they believe. I think that their number one interest is the money, which is normal. They run a business.

They're a business.

After, yeah, the security of the factor. But it's It's not to bash them. I think every company wants to make money. That's the goal. That's the number one priority. After, if we can make it fair and clean, okay, but money, I think is always the number one.

I think. That's business. You know what? It's business. Sometimes business inherently has some evil edges to it. Or not evil, but it's like business gets dirty sometimes. I'm not saying this, but I remember I went and saw Poirier's last fight, and I remember waiting outside. The people came and took him in there to test him. But are those tests, are they able to keep those tests legitimate?

Well, the problem, I believe, is... Well, just to give you an example, when I was training to fight Michael Bisping, you had to feel the whereabout to let them know, Okay, I have training at this time, this time to this time at this place. Okay. Oh, next week, I'm in I'm in Florida. But let's say you really want to cheat, for example. You just tell them you're going to, I don't know, freaking Antarctica or somewhere where they're not going to spend money to send an investigator to test you. Oh, yeah. But you go there, you get your stuff, and then you know how long it stays in your system. Then after you got the... You surf on it for weeks. You know what I mean?

Oh, I see. You could use it to enhance you and then be clean when it's time for show time.

Or another thing that What I do, they have a sponsor. They prepare their excuse. Let's say I'm sponsored by a certain food supplement company. I'm taking, for example, a certain substance that is illegal. I know that the food supplement, that the protein company that sponsor me is tainted by that certain substance. I'm sponsored by them. When I get, God, it's not my fault. It's the company that sponsors me. That's another way. You prepare your... That's one of the way I would think they would do.

No, I think that makes sense. Did you feel like most of the fights you fought, your opponent was clean?

I don't have the evidence, and it's wrong to accuse someone if you don't have the evidence. But I know for a fact that there was a lot of guys, a lot of guys that were using performance financing of drugs, and it was a big problem. The same thing in the Olympic, where you have money, you will always have corruption. It's impossible to catch everyone because the technology to cheat will always be one step ahead of the technology to catch the athlete.

I know. It's crazy. It's like a cat and a mouse. Yeah. Well, you were fortunate, man. You got in and you got out at the time where you wanted. You'd achieved everything you wanted. You're one of the rare people that it's almost like if you look at your career and stuff, you're like, Dang, man, he made all the right moves.

You were strategic about it. I was strategic, but I have the chance to have real friends. A lot of the people I hang out with that I'm friends with, they were a friend with me in the beginning. For me, it's very important because they don't tell me what I want to hear. They tell me the truth.

What you need.

Even when I wanted to come back and fight Michael Bisping, a lot of my good friend, they were like, George, you're 36 years old, man. You're best years are maybe behind you. What are you trying to prove? My argument was like, Man, I don't want to live with regret. I just want to do one more or depending on how it's going to go. If I fail, I fail, and I leave, and if I keep going, I keep going. But at least give me one shot, and if I succeed, we'll see after. You know what I mean? I didn't want to live with regret because let's say I would not have done I will have grow up. Now I'm 43. It's too late. I passed my prime. I would live with regret, say, Oh, I should have done it, and I would regret it. I always believe that you never want to live with regrets. That's the worst thing.

Has there been moments since then where you're just on the couch or something, you've had a couple of beers, and you're like, I'm fucking getting back in there tomorrow, and you're just fired up?

When I retired, I retired because I had When I won the title, but people don't know this, but I was very healed. I had ulcerolitis because I was trying to gain weight. Colitis? Yes. I was trying to gain weight because I was fighting in a heavier-Frelling of the large intestine?

Yes.okay.i.

Was trying to put on weight.It's.

Crohn disease. You have Crohn disease?

No, it's ulcerolitis. It's not Crohn. Crohn is different. But very often, ulcerolitis transformed into Crohn, and Crohn transformed into cancer. A lot of time, you see that progression. When I had those crazy cramp, it was during my training camp with Bisping, and I didn't know what it was because it was blood when I was going to bathroom. I told myself, I said, Whatever it is, I'm going to do the fight and I'm going to have... Because no, but to know what it is, you need to do what they call a colonoscopy. So they go with a camera inside. You need to take laxative and all that. It empty you. I was trying to put on weight. So you know what I mean? I couldn't do it. It was a few weeks before. I said, You know what? Whatever it is, I'll do the fight and I'll deal with it after. And after the fight, I went to do the test and I got diagnosed with ulcerolitis. I was on heavy medication for anti-inflammatory. I relinquished the title. I could have kept the title for one year and parade with the sponsorship, but I didn't want to do that for the respect.

I relinquished it because I didn't know what was going to happen. As a man, I don't know what's going to happen. I tried to get better, and after a few weeks, it didn't really work. And I discovered fasting. And what happened is pretty incredible. I met a doctor, Dr. Jason Fung in Toronto.

Jason Fung, F-U-N-G? Yes.

He's a- Japanese, huh? Yeah, nephrologist. I think it's Chinese, or Canadian-Chinese, yeah. That's him.Fasting program, exactly. He gave me a fasting program. He treats a patient that has certain type of diabetes. He gave me a certain program of fasting. What happened after the next few weeks, all my symptoms, It disappeared, and I diminished the dose of my medication until I no longer need it.

What type of fasting? What exactly were you doing? I did two types.

I did what we call time-restricted eating, where you eat in a You eat all your calories in a certain window.

Okay, like an intermittent fasting?

Yeah, you eat your calories in eight hours, and you fast on... You only drink water in the 16 hours. I do also prolonged fasting. When I do prolonged fasting, I do four days, only water. When I train, I take salt in my hand. I put a little bit and I lick.

Like a pervert. It's okay. Or perverte.

A perverte. But you take salt because you don't want to deplete your mineral. This over time, because ulcerative colitis, you're supposed to be stuck with that for life. It's a condition you have for life. When you got it, you finish. You got it. All my symptoms are gone. Now I can drink, I can eat whatever I want. I realized that we talk about conspiracy and stuff. The reason why you don't hear about fasting is because nobody makes money with it. It's not no pills. It's free. Yeah, but it's really worth investigating. Of course, ask your doctor, but man, it changes my I just wish I would have known this before. Really?

It really did. You use it in other facets, too, when you needed-It works for everything.

Sometimes you have an injury, say, tendonitis, and tendonitis, often it's related to inflammation. All inflammation disease, when you fast, it take away the inflammation. All the stuff that I had regarding inflammation, like one of my toes, I had a problem with one of my toes. It was hurting me for years. When I started doing my fasting, it disappeared. Yeah, it heals.

We don't think about that. We always think more, more, more, like a more medicine, more anything, more of this diet.

I thought the same thing before. I was like, Oh, protein shake this because I was trying to gain weight when I fought this thing. I realized, man, I was doing everything wrong.

We always think about the punch in. We don't think about the punch out, like you were saying. We don't think about the inverse of it.

It's insane. I remember I had a chance to go to Kenya.

Tanzania?

No, Kenya, at Masai Maro. I met the tribe of Hunter Gueter. Oh, yeah.

Those brothers can jump, huh? Yeah, but these guys, man, sometimes they spend three or four days without eating.

It's normal. They're used to it. If you see their old people compared to our old people, they're much more healthier. They look much better. The reason why people will tell me, Oh, yeah, but they have a shorter life expectancy than us. Yes, it's because a lot of the child die before the age of adulthood.

Oh, I see.

So the numbers are-They die when they're young. Yeah. Child, how do you say in English?

Starvation or neglect?

No, they got disease or the hospital is too far away. You have to drive like five hours.

Well, that right there. If something is wrong.

But once they pass a certain point, if you look at their old people and our old people, they look much better.

Oh, our old people look like shit a lot of them, to be honest, no offense. But a lot of them, I've had a couple of grandparents and they were mid, I thought.

But what makes us live that long, it's not because of our healthy lifestyle, it's because of our technology for most of us.

That's true. That's what's saving us most of the time. It's not us doing anything.

When I was a kid, for example, I had like... It's called in French,, it's a... When you're a baby, you have a rise of temperature. What your body does, it shut itself down and it go into a coma like this. It happened to me when I was young. My mom told me, If I would not have technology, I was brought to the hospital and they put me on an artificial coma and everything on plugs. If I would not have I would have that technology, I would have not been here with you today. I'm alive today because of our technology.

But how you treat the life you have is up to you as well.

If we don't have technology, maybe 50% of us will not be there. We'd be fucking fucked, dude.

I'd be out, probably. A lot of my family would be gone. Oh, yeah, like infant mortality rates that you're talking about.

Because they have... Hunter & Gather tribe in Africa, they have a much higher infant mortality rate than us. That's what lower their life expectancy.

When you look at some of the fights, did you watch the Balal fight the other night? Do you watch the fights?

I did. Yeah.

You think it was fair to make them fight at that hour in the morning over there? Or is that just fighting?

Well, it's fair. It's fair or unfair for both of them equally. Good point. If it's equal, it's equal. I don't care. If you have to make them cross the desert before or swim or doing a triathlon, they both do it. They have to do it. It's fair. It's not the best condition in terms of performance, but if both guys do it, it's a fear.

It was 6:00 AM there when they started that main event.

But man, I was surprised. He performed very well. I'm friends with Leon Edwards, and He's so. He's such a nice guy. When I went to England a few, like a year and a half ago, I remember I went out with him and Usain Bolt. We had a great time. Wow, that's crazy. He's such a nice guy. I really like him. He's a great athlete, but he's got a great personality, too. Man, I'm sure he's going to come back.

It'll be interesting to see. I think it really sets up for a nice surprise. I don't think a lot of people expected it. What were the odds on it, Nate? Leon was minus 300. Yeah, so I think a lot of people didn't expect it. I think it adds to the sport. It makes it exciting.

I was very surprised by Bilal, like his transition, the way... Because he doesn't fight like that all the time. Sometimes, he's mostly a striker. You know what I mean?It was a great mix.Man, he was on point. For that fight, he was really on point. It was like, wow.

Yeah, I thought it was super impressive. It was really cool to It made me just realize even, I didn't expect that much diversity from him. Is this what he said, Balal wants to be greater than GSP for his legacy?

He definitely can. If you keep working hard. All records are made to be broken. Do you look back at the times when you'd like the era, or it's not really an era.

I mean, it wasn't that long ago, but when you look at the time when you were fighting, would you rather be fighting in this era? Do you love the era you were fighting in? Do you ever think about it in spaces like that?

I think I was extremely lucky to fight in my era. It could have been better If I would have fought today, I would have made maybe more money because of the social media and all that. But it could have been way worse. If I look at in the time of Hoi's Gracie, Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, Don Fry, these guys were They were the real guys, man. They were fighting two, three times a night. No rules, no weight class. Man, that was insane. Ken Shamrock. For me, I respect these guys a lot because they paved their way for all of us. They didn't make money, man. It's sad. They didn't make money, man. They were tough as hell.

Is there a union or something that pays for stuff for the pioneers of it?

No, there's not. Wow. I think it's a question of time.

Yeah, because when you say that-A question of time.

Some guys, they're trying to do it. It got close, but then they're always fighting for power. They want to be in control. Certain group want to be in control, and others that wants to take more power. We all want the same thing. We all want the same thing at the end of the day. I think it's like every sport in hockey, baseball, it's a matter of time. Things were the same. If you look at other sports, they were the same. Guys were underpaid. Their condition were not good. They didn't have any assurance, nothing like that. Over time, it got better. I think it's only a matter of time. The only difference is in mixed martial arts, UFC has the monopoly. It's a monopoly.

It's It's one show, really. Well, they have PBR.

Well, yeah, but it's the most...

They have PFL.

Yeah, PFL is there. It's growing. Which is very good. Pfl is good because it's a competition to UFC, but UFC is the most prestigious organization. And then PFL start to gain a lot of momentum, which is good for fighters because it gives them the ability to negotiate. But when you have only one organization that has all the control, it's hard for fighters. Understood.

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He's such a good villain.

Yes, he is because he knows what he's doing. It's like he's really... He seems to be a guy that's enjoyed it along the way.

Yeah, he's got a mouth that can decimate all his opponents.

Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

I was like, Man, I'm not going to get into a trash dog battle with this guy. He's an We speak English perfectly. My English suck. I'm like, What am I going to do with this? I'm just also not good at insulting.

But also knowing that that's not your strength, I think was one of your strengths. Knowing where to I don't know, you always really had a precision, it seemed like, for the choices you made. You looked at it as a business. I've heard you talk about it before. You looked at it really as a business, especially if it wasn't something that you even enjoyed on the fight nights. Were you able to pull any real joy out of it over the time? Or was it all... When you finally got done, was it just like, Oh, thank God.

It was a release when I got done, but I had a great moment, a great memory of it. It was a lot of fun. When you win a fight, man, you look back at it and you're thinking like, Man, everything is worth it. It was all worth it. But when you lose, man, oh, God, it's a crazy downfall. That's what makes it so-You've barely lost. So hard. It's the risk. Bigger the risk, bigger the reward, right?

Are you a perfectionist, do you think, Dan?

Yeah, I was crazy. I was obsessed. Everything I did was always oriented to try to make me the best fighter. Everything I did.

The best fighter or the best person or the best-Best fighter. Bestfighter.fighter. Okay.

Person, I was not trying to be a character. Some guy, they try to be some a character. Some good guy try to be bad guy. You see that very often. Or some bad guy, try to be nice in front of the camera, but when the camera doesn't roll, they become some a douchebag. You see that a lot when you meet celebrities. But I always try to be true to myself and focus on performance. Because at the end of the day, I never hate, I never had any personal beef with any of my opponent. He's not a human being. When I look across the octagon before a fight, I feel like I look to myself in a mirror because that guy maybe did a similar sacrifice that I did. If I disrespect him, in a way, it's like I'm disrespecting myself. For me, I was I was just extremely lucky. Even the guy was talking a lot of trash and stuff. I was lucky to have that moment to shine and that people were aware and I make money with it. For me, after when it's finished, it's finished, it's not personal. There's none of the guy that I thought that if they would be in trouble today, I would not hesitate one second to help them.

If they are at my reach, I would not hesitate one second to help any of them. I mean it.

That's fascinating to look at your opponent and think, what if they made the same sacrifices as I did, then what else can I even do? Dude, that's such an intense way to look at the other side, at the other person across from you.

Well, but it's not only like they make the same sacrifice, but maybe they didn't have the same opportunities that opened to them. Maybe they were not as lucky as I was. I think the stars need to be aligned. I think life sometimes opens certain opportunities to you that if you wait too much, the door will close and it's gone forever.

Yeah, I think it's something that's true. When you look at the Diaz brothers, if you look, nick took a time off of fighting for years. Well, they made him quit, though. Didn't they make him? Yeah, he got suspended for-Matter when no. He refused to pay the fine and couldn't fight for five years.

Exactly. That's what a waste. He wasn't in his prime. I think he could have maybe been champion. When I retire, I was telling people, I was like, Man, if he doesn't, he should push on the gas right now and go, man. That's his time. He should do it.

Was there a time where... Has there been a fighter or something since then you look and you're looking like, Man, it would have been fun to fight them? Or do you have moments like that?

There's a lot of guys that I wish we would have fight, and that would be big fight. It would have made a story. But it takes three entity to make a fight. It takes one fighter, the other fighter. It takes the promoter as well. Very often, the promoter didn't reach our demands. You know what I mean? Everything needs to be aligned for the three entities.

Yeah, I know people always talk about you and Khabib fighting. Did that interest you?

It was the fight that I would have come back for at the time. Not now. Now, time has passed. But after I retired, there was one fight I would have had to go. It would have been Khabib.

What was the most? What excited you about that the most? Obviously, he was undefeated. He's undefeated.

He's got a perfect career. The competitor inside of me would have done, would have taken the fight. That's one of the fight I would have done it. But it needed to be at the right time. When it was It's time to do it, UFC didn't want to do it. They wait a few years after when we were both retired and the train was passed. The moment was gone. When Dana called me, I thought it was weird. I was like, Is Khabib want to fight? Because he said no in all interviews. No, he's down. I'm like, Okay, let me think about it. I'll get back to you. I thought it was weird. I called his manager, Ali Abdelaziz, and Ali said, Hey, man, the timing is not good. It's bullshit. It's not true. After, I've said, I've told the media what happened, and then I went, I don't do three people calls. I thought it was hilarious because he's right. He's not going to call a guy and say, Hey, no, the other guy doesn't want. No, that's not business. Exactly. He's a promoter. He's going to say, Hey, this guy said this, this, this about Do you want to fight him?

You want to use the emotions to make you tune in.

It's like playing your mom against your dad. It's like, Hey, dad, mom said I can do this. Then you go to, Hey, mom, dad said I can do this. Neither one of them said they could, but now you're outside playing. Exactly.

It's all a freaking game.

It's a lot of pressure, I think, on Dana, probably. I bet it's a lot of pressure because not only is he the promoter, but he's also... You have to answer all the questions.

He's in a business. He's in control of a business. It's not up to him. If someone sign a contract that suck, he's not going to say, Hey, you're worth more money. You should have... You know what I mean? Man, he's a businessman. He's going to take it and take advantage of you. It's not because... What I'm saying is it's not easy He's a good guy. I've met him. You met him, of course. Met him many times, but I met him while I was competing. When I was competing and then he called me, I always Before I hang up the phone, I was like, Shit. Take a inhale, try to think of what is the possible thing that he's going to ask me because you need to be quick when he calls you. You don't want to say something. You don't waste his time. Or you just say you don't answer or You're always like, because this is a game, it's a chess game, man, with a fight game. Everything you say, everything you do is going to have an outcome. You're like, Okay, what is he going to say? Then you prepare. If you're ready, you take the call.

If you're not ready, you let, Okay, I'm going toprepare myself.

Let me take a breather. That's how it is. Let me call Mike Brown. Let me get somebody to massage me during the off-run.

But the thing with Dana is my relation has changed over the years because now it's more friendly. He calls me, I'm not even going to hesitate to say, Hey, I know what's up. Like, whatever. I'm ready for anything. But when I was fighting, it's normal to have that reaction because he's the boss, and you know whatever he's going to ask you, whatever you say, it's going to be the whole world going to know. You cannot retract what you said. When he calls you, when I was fine, I was like, Shit. I saw a certain instance, I was like, Man, I'm not taking the call right now or I'm going to call him back, think about what it could possible. Have a little strategy. Yes, exactly.

It's almost like when your boss says, What are you up to this weekend? Now, if your boss... But your boss, they want you to work at 4:30 on Saturday, right? And you do not want to. But if you tell them that you're, Oh, nothing much, then you're halfway to working, right? Yeah. It's interesting. When you're the owner, it's also hard to be... I bet at times it's probably... Maybe not. I'm not putting words in his mouth or anything, but I bet it's tough for him to also be a person. Maybe it's easier after the fact because running a business is totally different than being a human being sometimes.

He takes a lot of Eats sometimes, and he does a lot of stuff that he needs to do for the best of the best of the UFC interests. It's normal that he's running a business.

It's worked out because look at the UFC has created opportunities for so many guys.

I had a lot of clash with Dana when I was-You did?

I didn't even know that.

No, we did add a lot of clashes when I was fighting because I attain a certain level of power that he couldn't control me as much. Some of the guys, he could say, You do this? Oh, yes, sir. Like me, I was like, No, it's not going to work. Because I was making him a lot of profit, a lot of money. There's a lot of things that they asked me, and I said, Hell, no, I'm not doing it because it's not for the best of my interests. The same thing when you negotiate for a fight, My thing was like, if I'm negotiated for a big fight, why am I going to do all the interviews, all the promotion, if I don't touch a piece of the pie? You know what I mean? Give me a piece of the pie so it will encourage me to do more promotion. Because if you don't touch any piece of the pie, if you don't have nothing, why am I going to do this? I'm just going to waste my time while I'm supposed to train and rest, I'm going to do interview.

It's not working. And your time has become more valuable because you're the champion. I think it's interesting when you get to a certain level, how the negotiation is changing. It has to. It's pretty fascinating.

You have to look at it in that way.

Were you able to get pay-per-view points and stuff back then in your fights?

Yeah, I'm very like, yeah.

Congratulations, man.

Yeah, thank you. But the thing is, there's a lot of guys in the business in this industry that are not well managed. They don't ask for what they're worth, and they They're afraid or they don't take the right decision. It's not Dana's job to say, Hey, I think you should ask for a raise. It's normal. He's not going to do that. He's the boss. He's on the other side of the The fight game, you're fighting for a contract. This should be your manager's fight. You have someone that look for the best of your interests, and that's one fight. The other fight is in the octagon. It's fascinating.

I think that a lot of that happens with art. When art or talent turns into business, there's this other element that comes on. Sometimes you have to trust your instincts, and sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong. But that's how you hone your instincts to be sharper, too, is by using them. I bet it's tricky, probably, for Dana because I bet there's a lot of guys that he super cares about, but he also has to run a business. I can't imagine. It's got to be tricky. I think also, you hear the nicest stuff. You'll hear all the stuff he does for him, his employees or places that he tries to help out.

During COVID, he didn't lay off for nobody. It's amazing.

I called him the other day asking him for some help with something. I know that... You know he's a great guy. I think he's also a great businessman.

A hundred That's probably where it's tricky. It's a great person, it's a great guy. And fighters, guys that are listening to us now, when they're in the middle of a competition, when they're competing, they might not have that relationship with Dana because Dana is on the other side. So it's always like a fight relationship. But once they're going to retire, they're going to see a total different person. Same thing with the Fertz, the brother. These guys are all great guys. Every time I with them. Hey, what's up? Dana, the Fertzter brother. All these guys. We're all friends here. Everything we did, the clashes that we had, it was because we were fighting for the best of our interests, and it's normal. It's just business. I think if you want to be successful, especially as an athlete in mixed martial, you need to build a team. You can't do all that by yourself because you don't have all the credential to do all the jobs. You need to have lawyers. You need How do you find a team of people that you can trust and people that have competence. Because sometimes people, they hire people who trust, but they turned out to be incompetent.

It's bad because it's going to make you do like, how do you say, air bike, you're not going to go forward.

You're going to spin, spin, spin.

If you have someone who's competent, but someone that you cannot trust, maybe he's going to He's going to screw you down the road.

It's tough, man. Starting to run a business or work with people, it's hard. But then you also... I mean, one thing is people criticize Dana in the UFC, but no other promotion has been able to sustain itself and establish itself and make it go and flourish. I think it's fascinating. I think he'll be studied one day in the sense by business people. I mean, I can't even Can't imagine because you have so many guys that are really putting their lives on the line. I just can't imagine. It's got to be a lot. What keeps you busy these days, dude? Do you still get those dinosaur updates? Remember you were always- Yeah, I love paleontology. What is it about it you think that you love? I was thinking about this the other day.

When I was young, I was always fascinated by dinosaurs. Actually, when I took my time off after my fight with my Johnny Hendrix, I spent four years. I was always training, but I spent time, I went on different sites. No way. I'm very lucky because it turns out that a lot of the big paleontologists that I've met, they're a fan of mixed martial arts. Really? Yeah. I was able to have special access on different- Probably mostly of John Bones Jones, you would think.

I'm just guessing.

No, it was incredible. I I traveled across the world. I went on different sites. But I realized also something. As much as I love paleontology, I realized that I would never be able to do this because I thought that if I would not be a fighter, I would have maybe be a paleontologist. No, that's not true. I would not never be able to be on that dig site for hours.Meticulous.It ain't me. I love to acquire the knowledge, but I would not have the patience to go out there. I saw some incredible sites. I Man, I went in a place in an area in Argentina, in Patagonia. It was in the morning, the sun rises, and I could see, I'm not kidding you, like thousands of dinosaurs, eggs They were eggshells of titanosaurs, the long-neck dinosaurs. Oh, yeah. Man, it was insane. You had to watch to not step on it, like fossilize eggshells. Some of them were broken. So that means the animal was about to get It was insane. I saw some of the craziest sight.

That was a dig that they were doing?

Yeah, they were digging. They were excavating like an eggshell. I went on a place, and I think it was in Dakota. It was It was with a professor. I think it was Professor Pearson. They don't know what it was, but they found a a a graveyard of triceratops.

In South Dakota?

I think it was South Dakota or Wyoming. Yeah, triceratops. Trisarotops. It was from the late Cretaceous. You could see that some of the leg bone of trisarotops, they were slice because of tyrannosaurus rex. They found tyrannosaurus rex teeth there. It was just insane.

You're a promoter, really. When you go back to the paleontological ages, dude, you were a damn promoter, bro. You'd have put some of those things in the ring, bro. I think.

Maybe one day we'll be able to... I think they wanted to resurrect the mammoth now, I think, to put it back in Siberia.

Bring that bitch back, dude. Yeah. Didn't they say they can recreate a willy mammoth? Did I read that somewhere?

I think they're going to use Asian elephant.

And just do a wig or whatever?

To put a mammoth inside and try to recreate it. Yeah, put it in Siberia.

What weight class is that going to be?

There's different species of mammoth. There's willy mammoth, colombian mammoth. It depends which species they want to... I think it's the willy mammoth they want to bring back.

Let me see. A biotech company that hopes to resurrect extinct species said Wednesday that it has reached an important milestone, the creations of a long-sought stem cell for the closest living relative of the wooly mammoth. Now the company says, Scientists have for the first time created Pluripotent stem cells for the mammoth's closest living relative, Asian elephants. Oh, damn. It says, Scientists can now try to use cloning techniques and gene editing to manipulate the cells in hopes Someday, Creating Elephants with Key Traits of mammoth. Wow. So like a bit of a remix, such as their heavy coats and their layers of fat that enable them to survive in cold climates. Dude, that's what the zoo needs because honestly, dude, the zoo, some of the Some of the animals are fucking not... Even in America, some of the animals, they're smoking. They don't even care.

It's sad when you don't see them in their natural environment. In a way, they do it, of course, because it's not accessible to everyone. For example, if you want to see a lion, you go to Africa, it costs a lot of money. But to see... I've been in zoos before, and I like to see animals in their natural environment.

Do you think you're going to take any animals? Are there any animals you think you could take?

We're so weak, man. In nature, it's crazy. Apparently, they say that even a chimp would kill you.

Yeah, that's what they say. It can just pull your fucking balls off.

Yeah, it pulls your ball, break your fingers, and rip your face. You know that? When they go on crime scenes where chimps turns against the human, that's what happened. It's crazy, man.Oh, I hate that.Because you cannot reproduce, you cannot climb away, and they take away your identity. I went in Rwanda. I had the chance to do a gorilla trekking, and you see them like I'm seeing you.

No, this close.

Yeah, that close. When you go there, it's like-In Rwanda. Yeah, in Rwanda, in Africa, it's in East Africa. You take a car, it's about two hours away from Kigali, which is, I think, the capital. You go there and they give you a course. They tell you, don't eat. If the gorilla look at you, don't look him in the eyes. If he comes towards you, don't run away. Just get out of the way and put your knee on the floor in a submissive pause. Don't talk loud. Don't ever touch the female and the kid. When I went there, it was amazing.

Oh, yeah. Is this it, nick?

Yeah, that's what it is.

Oh, my God, bro.

Okay, so this guy, let me tell you about this one.

Why'd you dress for a funeral, too?

Listen to... Guys, this is very interesting. You see what happened? During one instant, during my adventure there, I was with different people that were older than me. I don't know what happened. At one point, the gorilla, because what happened is You hang out with the kids and the female and the young. Once every 20 or 15 minutes, the big silverback comes and you make a noise. The guy that is with you, every day, he sees the same family. He's used to see the same guy. But the tourist change. The guy, they always answer back to tell, Hey, we're here. He comes and sometimes he look around to see if everything is okay, and then he goes back in the forest every 10 minutes, approximately. But once he came and he looked at me.

Did he have your belt with you? No.

Man, he looked at me, and when he looked at me, I looked at him just very fast, and he started walking towards me like he was pissed. Man, I got out of the way and I put my knees down. I'm not a religious guy at all, but I became religious at that day. I was like, Please, please, please, please. Then I opened my eyes. He's not in front of me. I look behind, I see his back. He put his backs against me. He explained to me the reason why the gorilla turned his back to me is because he wanted to show me how much I'm not a threat for him. To show you. He turned his back and he looked underneath his arm. When I looked back, I was like, Man, I saw his back. He was just a test. I was like, Man, even with all my years of training, he would have ripped me apart, man.

Did you feel like you stood any chance? You think he could have got it to two rounds or no?

I read It's a document. Apparently, it's a report. I think it's in Uganda, I read. There's a military guy that a gorilla grabbed and he ripped his head off like this. It's straight up from an horror movie, he grab him and it's that strong. There's nothing you can do, man.

But what would you have done, you think?

I think I would have tried to play that. There's nothing you can do. If he wants to kill you, the guy has two guy with him with AK47.

So they help.

No, but you know, he told me it's not because of the gorilla. It's in case we see an elephant or a Cape Buffalo. Apparently, it's so dense. I don't understand. Apparently, sometimes you could run through a Cape Buffalo, and they're extremely territorial.

Was that scarier than beating the cage?

Well, it happens so fast. It's very different because it happens so fast that you don't have time to prepare, so you just go with the flow. I didn't even have time to be scared that much. I was like, Man, please, please, please. Then I look. Shit, he's in the back and I see his back, and I could see the muscle through the fur. I was like, Man, he's so massive.

It's insane. Keith Peterson is just standing there. That'd be crazy.

Man, it was one of the most incredible adventure of my life. I recommend it to everyone. The money that you pay for that adventure is given to the gorilla. Now the gorilla in Rwanda, in that part of the world, are flourishing again. Oh, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing.

It is awesome to take care of our planet and to give back to it. Because it's funny because somebody probably saw a gorilla one day and even thought about getting in shape for the first time. You know what I'm saying? You just don't know what we learn from animals. What keeps you busy these days, man?

I'm involved with... I have a home fitness equipment brand called Baceblock Pro. Really? It's all kinds of apparel that you can use and train at home.It's.

In Canada or US as well?

Kinesthetic, all around the world.

I need to get something for home.

It's light. You can put... Some of them are outdoor friendly, so you can put it in your backyard. Some I recommend it's more for a backyard to put outside, and some are more for inside, for home. Yeah, it's great. I never lift weight really much, and I'm a big fan of kinesthetic. I used to when I was younger to lift weight, but I realized that it's more to train kinesthetics, especially when you're- Kinesthetics is what? Yeah, gymnastics.

Your own body weight? Yes, exactly.

You have less risk of injuries, and I think it's more efficient.

Base blocks?

Yes.

Oh, sweet, man. I got to get something else for my home. I'm just getting a treadmill, so I got to have something else for when I can't go down to the gym.

I'll send you some. I'll tell my guy, I'll hook you. That'd be awesome to have one, man. Tell me which one you like. I recommend you the Big Bar Pro, this one. If you have a backyard, put in your backyard. It's outdoor friendly. If you want for your legs, this one is very good. It's for ham string.

I don't care about the legs. I'm up top only.

I'll send you some stuff. I'll tell the guy to send you some, so you'll be more than happy.

Are there some fighters right now that you love to watch? Are you cheer on. Do you find yourself being a fan of MMA still? I know it's obviously been such a huge part of your life. I don't know if it's something you just close or if it's something that's always in you.

One thing that has changed, and now there's so many fights, there's every weekend, so I can't watch it all. I can't watch all the shows, but I love to watch some of the guys that I can learn from. I like to watch Tom Aspenal. Yeah, he's fun. The fight of last weekend Balal Mohamed, Leon Edwards, I watch it. I like Kamara Guzman, Adesanya, Wokunovski, Makachev. I like to watch the best so I can learn from them.

Is it weird to look at them and be like, That was me? Because I think Even as a comedian, I'll watch comedy sometimes and I'll be like, it doesn't seem like... I know it's a different person, but it doesn't even seem like that's my job. Does that ever happen to you? Do you ever have this Clark Kent feeling when you're walking down the street that you're also Superman?

No, I think what made me good is because I possessed certain set of skills that made me unique. But some of the guys that are competing now, they have their own set of skills, and I think I can learn from them. By watching them, I'm learning from them. Of course, maybe they can learn from me. It's impossible to be completely 100% well-rounded. You always have certain things that you do better than others. That's why I like the sport so much. Some guys are better, for example, at grappling. One guy's strength might be his ground and pound. One guy might be his submission skills. One guy might be his... Like Pereira, he's got an incredible left hook.Un Unbelievable.We all know he's got a left hook, but nobody... They all know the left hook is coming, but they don't know how to stop it. It's crazy. Left hook is one of the most fundamental punch that you learn in day one. It works. It's one of the most basic weapon, but he does it so well. He hides it so well. The way he does it, even though it's so basic, nobody can stop it. It's crazy.

That's That's fascinating, almost, isn't it? How something simple can be and so obvious, in a way, can be so surprising.

He used different diversion, different distraction to get it on. It's crazy. That's what I like about the sport. It's like a chess game.

It's fascinating, too. I think I've been a fan now, a big fan for probably maybe almost six or seven years now. You get know the fighters more a little bit, too, on a personal... Because there's so much social media, you get to know more about them and cheer from in different ways and stuff. But there's all types. There are guys who are outspoken. There's guys who are reserved. There's guys who are playing cat and mouse, and there's guys who are just about getting in the ring. Have you gotten into anything else competitive? Is there something else that you do?

When I was young, I used to play chess.

You really? Yeah.

Growing up, I was more of a nerd at school. I was a victim of bullying at school, so that's why I started martial art. I started karate at a young age as a self-defense. Then later on, it developed into a passion, passion to transform into a way I make a living.

You should pull up on those guys right now.

That would be awesome, dude. But I remember, in order to miss school, I was enrolling into chess competition because I was representing my school. Then once you win the school, you go to... How do you say? Like the regional. Then once I go to regional, you go to Montreal where it's the provincial, and I never made it past that. I won the school, I won the regional, but when I went to Montreal, I never even won a match in the provincial because these guys, that's what they do. Me, I was just doing that for fun. I was a kid back then, so it was fun.

Yeah, well, you found another way to win, Oh, yeah, the Olympics are going on.

Oh, that's the Olympics, man. It's crazy. There's big people, now they talk about what happened in the controversy.

With the woman fighter, you mean?

Yeah, no, they talk about the opening ceremony.

Oh, yeah, they thought it was anti-catholic. Yes. I was in Miami when that happened, and I saw on the news, I was I was like, Man, I'm going to try to watch it, but now they took it out of YouTube, so I don't think you can see it anymore. That's crazy.

I tried to find a way, but I just saw some part of it, and I speak French. I was like, God, I was like... I was like, oh. Yeah, it's weird. I try to not be politic, but there are certain things that, man.

It's like, is there a darkness?

Keep it at home. Don't have to show the world. I don't care who you sleep with, what you do. I like you as a person. You know what I mean?

Yeah, this seems a little It's crazy for the Olympics, I think.

Yeah, it changes. That's one thing that changed over the year. We didn't have that before.

What is this? It seems crazy. Maybe the world is so crazy that I don't even know the world anymore. That's what I start to wonder, too, sometimes. But yeah, this stuff seems like, what do we do? What sport is this? That's what I don't know. It's just what sport is it. But I mean, I probably, I don't know.

It's a different time. I don't know what to make of it.

It's dark forces at play, it feels like sometimes.

I am not really- You're like going down the conspiracy rabbit hole, though.

It's fun. Also, the crazy part about the conspiracies is, remember during pandemic, they said all these things and half of them were true.

It was like, well, fucking I was very angry about what was going on in Canada. I didn't like the way it was run during the pandemic. I was very pissed off. I didn't like it. I think it was an attack on our freedom. We had curfew and this, and this, I'm not afraid. Some people are like, Oh, you shouldn't become a political. This is not right. This, I think it's about freedom. I was not happy about the decision that were made. I think it was an attack on the freedom, and I think everybody should have had the decision of choosing the right to make the decision. Do I want to be vaccinated or not? But if you're not vaccinated, you're not allowed to do this, do this. Man, you have no life. This was wrong. I don't agree with that decision.

It started to feel like privatized communism to me in a way. It's like the bait of the government, but really, it's like private entity He's doing it. I wish I'd spoken more. I think there were times for me, I just felt scared or I didn't feel brave or I didn't know something. They would have canceled you. But that's crazy.

They could have cancel you. That's the thing. That's the thing about it. It depends. Nashville, I don't know. Nashville, Tennessee, right?

Yeah, they can't really cancel you that much there.

Yeah, but in Canada, it's different. People don't understand, but it was different. We had a curfew. It was crazy. Man, I couldn't get out of the country. I had business to do. My business is international. I had to travel, so I had no choice. I did it. But I think I was not agree with the decision. It's my right to say so. But if I would have said it at the time, maybe they would have put down my Instagram, put down all my stuff.

I know that's what's it. It really feels like big tech is the government now. But man, it's just an honor to sit down with such a champion these days and just get to have a chance to spend time with you, George. They have the thing in the Olympics right now. They have a boxer who has like... Oh, yeah. It's a female boxer, right? But she She was born a female and is a female. Let me say her name. Iman Khalief.

Yeah, Algeria.

Iman Khalief. She's crushing it. She hasn't won all of her fights. But there's people, it's been a huge uproar online because I guess she had higher testosterone levels and she wasn't allowed to compete in the World Boxing Championships. Do you think at some point, because this just appears to be something that happens more where there's It's some gray area in between gender, right? Do you think they should just have a new division?

I don't know enough information about that particular situation to give an opinion on it, because I might be wrong.

Yeah, you don't want to think.

Yeah, totally. But one thing I can tell you, when you're born as a man and then you change your sex, and then after you go compete as a woman, this, I I think is disgusting. This, I'm not afraid to say it and stand up for that because I love women and I think they need to be protected, especially in combat sport. This, I'm not agree with this. I agree, I want everybody to have the It's all right. But when you have someone who's born as a man who changes sex as a woman and then compete, I think he should have his own category. That would be fair because otherwise, it's unfair. I agree. We're different. Why? Okay, I'm going to change my sex and go compete in the UFC and make a comeback in the woman division. What do you think is going to happen? You know what I mean? It's not fair. Maybe some of them will kick my ass, but I think I will do pretty well.

Yeah. Andrade might give you a run. There's a couple of ladies out there that would give you a run. But I agree. They should solve it. I think it's not fair also if people are dealing with this, their own sexual identity, and they don't know, create a new division so that they can be there and be the pioneers It's of a new division. Then that way, it's like they're getting to be a part of something new. They're getting to fight against like-minded people. I don't know, but I agree with you. I agree.

They should have their own division, I think if you're born in a different gender, because, man, it's really not fair. People have no idea the difference, but, man, it's huge difference.

It's a huge difference. Oh, God.

We've seen in tennis, I think it's Serena Williams, she played tennis against...

Oh, yeah, she got it.

Defeated. It was done in boxing, too. A few times, she's a Dutch champion in kickboxing. She fought a man in boxing. Tennis is different because it's a game. Basketball, it's a game. But when it's combat sport, I think we should protect-Protect our females.The woman. The women. The women, yeah.

The men should speak up for that. The men should speak up for that.

The problem is sometimes when you speak up to that, you get point by the finger and, This is unfair.

That's the media that's fucking… They're sick. But there's a fight in BJJ, actually. Is it this? Craig Jones' Invitational, he's doing his tournament the same weekend as ADCC, and the main event is going to be him versus Gabby Garcia. Now this, though, they're both agreeing that they want to do it.

I'm sorry for my ignorance. Is Gabby Garcia is a-Female. She's a female-female. It's not like she's-Yeah. Okay.

But lots of help.

Yeah, of course. A lot of enhancement. Okay, wow. But is it like a novelty fight, or more like a-He's competing against the ADCC, so he's doing this to get all the eyeballs on it.

He's doing it the same weekend.

It's interesting. Yeah, because Craig Jones is one of the best grappler of the planet. Yeah, for sure.

He's probably going to... I don't know. I don't know enough about Gabby.

Yeah, I heard about that event, that it was a million-dollar event, and in the same time as the Abu Dhabi event, but I don't know all the detail on it. Wow. Oh, my God. That's her.

That is her. My gosh, boy. I am.

She's bigger than him, right?

I got to get to the gym.

But Craig Jones is one of the best. It should be interesting.

What about just in jiu-jitsu? Can women compete as well in there if there's not striking?

Well, they can compete, women against woman, but...

Against man, it's still the strength.

The strength is different. There's a lot of factor, too. I'm not a specialist in that, but the bone density, there's a lot of factors. There's a lot of factors. I mean, there's things. First, I think women are better than men. They can give birth, and we couldn't. We couldn't endure that. Women are better than men. Yeah, dude. This is what I believe. Oh, yeah. There's one thing that we have better than what we have. Normally, we're more physically stronger, and we have certain advantage. And that's why there's different category. There's this man and the woman, and that's why, to make it fair. But in jiu-jitsu, it's the same thing. Of course, if you take a woman, for example, who has a lot of experience, make her fight a man who does not have any experience, the woman can kick his ass.100%, But if you go to the elite level, it will be pretty unlikely.

It'd be interesting, though. Now, that stuff, I think, is a little bit more… It's like we're both agreeing to do this thing. Roche, man, thanks so much, dude.Thank.

You, man.So cool.

Thank you for having me, man. Yeah, it's really awesome and just really cool to be in the presence of somebody that's achieved such greatness in their life that got in and got out.

Do you have any Are there big goals in your life right now, do you feel like? You feel pretty content? Does a person that's a perfectionist, I'm a perfectionist, too, I think. Do you ever get content, do you feel like?

I'm never satisfied. Now, I'm more of an entrepreneur now, and that's my goal. I'm very lucky. I was able to transfer that hunger that I had in mixed martial art. I wanted to be the best, be the champion. Now, I transfer it into a business or into my person. I wanted to be a better person, and I'm happy. If things go well for me, I have enough to live for the rest of my life. If I don't go crazy, you know what I mean? I'm trying to be happy. I think the ultimate goal for everyone is to be happy. Oh, for sure. There's different ways that you can use to attain that feeling, but it's to be happy. Right now, I'm very happy. I'm healthy. I'm happy.

Are your parents pretty proud of you?

They're very happy. My parents, in the beginning, they didn't want me to fight. I understand them. It's not something that you want. No. It's It's not a life that you wish for someone you love.

Most kids, you tell them not to fight.

Man, I'm going to tell you something that happened to me all the time. There is a parent that comes to me with their kids and they're like, Hey, George, this is the future world champion. Then I go, Oh, hi. How old are you? He's 12 years old. Oh, yeah, you train martial arts? Yeah, it's good. But remember something, stay at school, man, and you need to be educated. That's your number one priority. The that a lot of athletes, and not only in MMA, in everything. In Canada, we have a lot of that example in hockey, but it could be basketball, football. A lot of athletes, they put their eggs all in the same basket. Oh, yeah. They all dream to be a professional athlete, but something happened. They get hit by a car, boom, or they get an injury, like they break their ACL or their knees or something happened. Now, their career is gone. They're never going to come back the same. What happened if If that incident happened when you're in your late 20s? There's nothing that you can fall back into if you don't have school. There's nothing. It's an assurance. I quit school when I was I didn't mat use.

Before my fight with mat use. My parents forced me to stay at school to stay educated. It was one of the best thing they did.

Because you quit college then?

I wanted to quit everything, but I was studying in kinesiology. But I didn't like what I was doing at the time. I didn't know. I was changing all the time. One time, I tried to be a fireman. I had many jobs. One time, I was working in nightclubs as a security. To pay my university fee, I was a garbageman for seven months.

Really?

Yeah, I collect the garbage, man. That's what I did.

I'm going to see.

I did it. But my parents always forced me to stay educated. When I I tell the kids, I say, Man, train, but I wish you the best, but the huts of success are very low. Even you're so talented and you work really hard, that does not mean you're going to make it because that chance of success are so low. Make sure you stay educated. If something goes wrong and you cannot achieve it, at least you have something to fall back into. Maybe you're going to change your mind. You know what I mean? You're not the same person at 15 that you will be at At 20 and at 25. Things changes. I didn't know what I wanted to become when I was young, and I'm sure the same for you. I wanted to be a cop at one point. Then I wanted to be a fireman. Then I'm like, I wanted to do a therapist, then a paleontologist. Then I'm like, I'm going to be a fighter. You know what I mean? But the fighter was always in my mind since the beginning, but I needed to have a backup plan. I didn't know what to do.

I realized when I had my first title shot that it was an opportunity of a lifetime. And that's when I had a talk with my parents. I told my parents, Listen, I'm going to quit the next session because I'm going to train full-time because I have a title shot. If that doesn't work, I can always go back next season to school, but the title shot might never come. The chance for the title might not ever present itself again. So I'm going to take a chance and I'm going to go full-out. And I went full out. I lost my first title shot, but I rebound immediately, and then I end up winning the title, and that's how everything started for me in the UFC.

Did they come to your fights, to your folks? I'm sorry. Did they come to your fights?

They came to my fight, my parents, when it was local. My mom came to my fight when I fought for the title in Sacramento, when I won the title. But my dad doesn't like to fly. He's afraid of airplanes. It's crazy.

He's You're afraid of airplanes. You're afraid of nothing, which is ironic. I don't know.

I'm afraid of a lot of things, but I'm willing to do it. That's the difference. Willing to commit.

Thank you so much, Georges St. Pierre. I appreciate your time. Just helping us learn more about fighting and more about the mentality of being a champion and the ups and downs of it, that not everything's perfect, but that we keep moving forward and challenging ourselves. I appreciate it so much, man.

Thank you, man. Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it.

Cheers, brother.

Now, I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones. But it's going to take...