A cast recommends, Podcasts We Love. This is not Without My Sister. The podcast where two sisters from Kildare, Ireland, now live in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and have lots of things to do with their time, but decided to do a podcast instead. We talk about the time Beatrice got kidnapped by a man who looked like Santa, and then tried to squeeze her into his ex-wife's poochy pants to no avail, and not to be outdone the time that Rosemarie dawned her best Game of Thrones larping costume, and showed up on some unsuspecting handsome boy's doorway.

It was not even that handsome. I'm trying to woo him This and more can be yours, not without my sister.

Acast is home to the world's best podcasts, including In the News from the Irish Times, Irish History podcast, and the one you're listening to right now. This podcast contains content that may be upsetting to some listeners. Before continuing, please prioritize your own wellbeing and mental health. Please check the show notes for more detailed descriptions of the episodes, and a warning, strong language is used in this episode. As Melbourne countered down to the start of 2009, the night was a buzz with the sounds of celebration. Crowds had gathered on the banks of the Yara River, cheering and embracing each other as fireworks illuminated the sky above. The Yuinita's family were also out celebrating, with Helen, her son Tass, and her daughters scattered throughout the city, each enjoying the in their own way. They were all blissfully unaware that their lives were about to be shattered. Episode 4, No Time to Grieve. When Tess woke up on New Year's Day, 2009, he looked at his phone and was confronted with a heartbreak making message from Louisa about their mother, Helen. After leaving a celebration dinner during the wee hours of the morning, Helen had collapsed from an asthma attack while making her way back to her car.

I got the message later in that morning when I turned my phone on that mom was in hospital. At that point, I thought it was just a recurrence because she'd gone down this path before where she was found unconscious and taken to hospital because of an asthma attack. She'd gone down that path before I'm thinking, Okay, here we go again. But it was different this time. It was different. Made my way to the hospital, and they pretty much pronounced her a vegetable, like her brain had sustained damage because of It was a lack of oxygen.

Four days after Helen's asthma attack, her life support was turned off.

And there was no signs, nothing at all of any improvement. On the third or fourth day, I decided just to let her go. And I must say that was The most difficult decision, it's a difficult moment in my life that I've had to go through, having to turn those machines off. That's it. That's my mom's episode. Another regret, why couldn't I be with her that night? Why do I have to go elsewhere. I could not just spend that New Year's with her.

The passing of their beloved mother left her children utterly devastated. Despite Louisa's rebellious nature, often clashing with Helen's strict parenting style, there was no denying the depth of the love that existed between them.

She was always very grateful to be here. She loved her mom. It wasn't that she didn't love her mom. She loved her mom. When her and her mom got along, they really, really got along. Even when she was pushing back on her mom, it wasn't that they didn't get along. It was her mom was just being like European mom. Like, no, you shouldn't do that. Would slap her on the arm. But it wasn't that when she came home, they'd be fighting or anything like that. It would be like her mom told her no. It was like her Mum's job was to tell her no, and her job was to push her, go against the grain a little bit. But she was always grateful for her Mom and what her Mom had done for her bringing her here.

Neighbors at the Siston Street property, including Cares, also tried their best to support Louisa and maintain the safe home Helen had tried so hard to create for her girls while she was alive.

She had a hard life, but she always wanted to do better for her daughters. She worked really hard to provide a safe home, and that was really important to her. I think that's something that we really connected on as well because we all look out for each other. As mums, as women, we're single mums. Even when I got divorced, she was still looking out for She was really telling me when my ex-husband was breaking into my house and sitting on my table. I said, Oh, thanks, Helen. Appreciate it. But she was fierce as well. She really didn't let anything. I saw her battle with grown men, and I'm like, I'm right with you. I'm not scared either. She was really strong in that way. I looked at her and I got a lot of inspiration myself. Like, Come on, get up. She was beautiful. Helen was beautiful and the girls were just her life. And it did break her sometimes of, Is it because they haven't got a dad? Or she used to ask me, The kids haven't grown up with a solid male. I said, Oh, that's my worst nightmare for my daughters. But she was Yes, she was a fierce woman.

And I tell you, she loved those girls. You could just see it, and it was hard.

For Tess, he would never forget that New Year's and the tragic turn it took for his family. The hardest part was reconciling the heroic act of escaping Libya in search of a better life in Australia, only for tragedies to strike again, and so soon.

At the end of the day, that's what's most hurtful, that she went through all this drama, and to have the outcomes that we have now Louisa gone. And for what? She lost her life in vain. In vain, all her efforts. It just took so much out of her. But she's my hero in many respects. To see all this unfold was just tragic. It was just tragic.

As February 2009 rolled over, Louisa should have been celebrating her 22nd birthday and the promise of a bright future ahead. Instead, she found herself mauling the loss of her beloved mother, the mother that had fought so hard for her daughters to have the very best life they could in Australia.

These girls couldn't do without my mom. These girls were very, very dependent on my mom. It just shows. Louisa can last long without her.

With Louisa and her sister struggling to come to terms with the loss of their mother and the glue that held them together, Louisa's boyfriend, Joe, made the decision to move with them full-time at the Seston Street property. While this may have sounded like an honorable thing to do, many of Louise's friends had, by this stage, become concerned about their relationship. The close-knit little community Caz had built at Seston Street with Helen suddenly changed overnight.

It completely disintegrated because he was bringing in so many people into the unit, day and night, cars, people just walking up We're on our driveway, and we're like, What is this going to turn into? Who are all these men and women coming in? He'd moved in, taken full control of the unit. Who was coming in? I heard him even fighting with Louise's sister at times because Louisa's sister, she didn't back down from him at that time either. Then that's when Louisa said, Well, you need to go. You need to leave our house. Safety. I think she did it as a safety thing. And Louisa's sister, then she moved out.

Other friends, such as Indigo, say they had already witnessed Joe's aggressive behavior towards Louisa.

Joe slapped Louisa across the face. Yeah, that's right. He slapped her across the face. I can remember that vividly now. They were sitting on this futon couch.

Indigo is remembering an earlier time when Joe and Louisa had come over to her house. Indigo's partner at the time was out, and when Joe and Louisa had started to argue something trivial, Jo had responded with aggression. Indigo was so shocked by what she said she witnessed. She was speechless.

I remember that I was shitting myself when he done it. I didn't talk up, but I remember when my partner at the time got home, he was like, Why haven't I told him? And he's like, He's like, he's not coming here alone with you and her again.

There was also the time Indigo visited Louisa and became even more concerned about what was happening behind closed doors.

There was another time I went there for a coffee, and they had this bird, Gina, and she was this talking bird. But when I say talking bird, this bird was quite an expensive bird. It was a big parrot. And she used to repeat everything that she heard. So we were there one day, and Gina started screaming, mimicking Joe, but saying, Joe, stop, stop. Enough, Joe, enough. And it was like, when you heard Gina, you got goosebumps. And I just looked at Louisa like, What the is that? And she's like, Gina, stop, stop. And she shut the glass door because it was a really small kitchen in the courtyard. It was really small. Gina's right next to us, essentially. I just looked at her and I was shaking my head, and she's like, Don't, don't.

With hints of the difficulties Louisa was facing, her older brother Tess felt an overwhelming sense of duty to support and look after her. He regularly contacted her, encouraged her to continue her studies, and even provided her with financial financial assistance on occasion. But with Joe in the house, things were much more complicated. Family friend, Nurse Helen.

I went to the house. They were living in Preston, near Northlands. He was there, and He basically, in a nice way, told me to leave, that he's controlling the house now. He's the man of the house. Louisa said, Excuse me. She's like an Auntie to us. Go away. Then he pushed her and he pulled her hair. And then I said, Who do you think you are? And then I was talking to the girls in Greek, and I said, You need to leave. What are you doing? This isn't healthy. How could you do this? This is part of your mother's problem. And then Tess came as well. And Tess was just sick of it. Tess was just sick of it.

As Indigo puts it, Joe had control of the whole house, the situation, what they did.

Louisa couldn't go out with friends. There was nothing like that. I don't even know if Louisa had a lot of money to her. I think he even controlled money, the friends she saw, stuff like that. So Louisa repeated what she did with her mom. So if she could get a moment where she could take off and go see friends, she would take off and go see friends and not pick up her phone for hours, knowing that when she went home, she would cop it. Rather than living with him and them seeing their friends together, that's how she started seeing friends and going out with friends. So she was repeating what she did with her mom, just with Joe. But then obviously, he was more open with slapping her, just say. So one day we were there, and she said something. Again, it was like, Oh, F off, Joe, or what are you talking about, Joe? Or, Shut up, Joe. And you'd sit there and you'd watch her and you'd think, Shut up, stop. Stop. Just stop talking back to him because you know what you're going to cop. And he slapped her across the back of the head, and she's like, Joe.

But I was like... Because she was standing facing her back to me, and he hit her over the back of the head.

Alongside the alleged instances of physical violence, friends and family observe signs Louisa was grappling with what we now recognize as coercive control.

Betty Taylor, I'm the CEO of the Red Rose Foundation. It's a national organization set up to women at risk of high risk, high harm, domestic violence, as well as a prevention and intervention organization. When we talk about coercive control, the broadest definition is really looking at how constricted someone's life has become in their decision making. As someone out there controlling them to the point that they've got limited ability with their own decision making. As all that decision making, and as all that decision making starting to be influenced by another person. That's often hard to do. It's almost like taking that time with a victim and unpacking it and seeing, Oh, my God, who's in the driver's seat here? Who's running the show? I think that tells you a lot about what are her free choices. Rather than starting to look as he checking the phones or doing all of these other activities, it's more about her and her life and the freedom that she has in her life and the freedom of choices. How diminished has that become? Because sometimes that's what victims and others around them don't see. They might see, Oh, he's so caring.

He's always looking out for who. But at the end of the day, it's probably not. It's controlling who.

Louise's alleged experience of coercive control would have undoubtedly contributed to the instability in her relationship, as it was also marked by frequent breakups. For friends like Indigo, news of their breakup was always met with a sense of relief.

I feel like the part that I've blocked out the most is that part of the friendship where I was around her and Joe, but it was that real toxic part after her mom died, that's the part I've blocked out the most. I feel like the reason I've blocked that out is because at that stage, it was obvious that this wasn't going to end nicely.

By November 2009, Louisa and Joe were going through yet another turbulent breakup. After splitting up a A few weeks earlier, Joe was no longer living at the Seston Street property. On this occasion, it began with an unexpected visit from him, which, Cas says, quickly turned into him being verbally abusive towards Louisa. Neighbors As they say, they observed a disturbing pattern of abuse, one that they were starting to regularly witness firsthand.

I'm like, Louisa, what are you doing, love? Come on. This is not love or kindness. Or respect. He does not love you. I'm like, You got to stop letting him come back. We've got you. We're all going to protect you. I even said, I'll take you to my auntie's house in New South Wales.

So the age-old question rises, why do people keep going back to toxic relationships? Domestic Violence Expert Jolene Allert from the DART Institute, Australia. I've spoken to a lot of survivors that have been in and out of women's refuge, and I hear from the workers, Oh, how many times does she need to go back to him? I always stop them there and go, Hold on a minute. It's not a matter of going back. We need to focus on the perpetrator's behaviors. To what extent is his coercion and control so great that at this time, her only safest option is to return? We need to be able to focus on the perpetrator's layers of coercion and control and what that means for a survivor in assessing risk, because at that point in time, it may be that that is the safest option for that survivor at that point. As the altercation that particular day grew increasingly heated, concerned neighbors rang police. These were the same neighbors who had previously remained silent while Joe cast a dominating presence over Louisa's mother when she was still alive. They were the same neighbors who remained tight-lipped as he quickly moved in and gained even more control control over Louisa after her mother's death.

But this time, they couldn't just sit back and watch as the situation escalated. It wouldn't have been an easy decision to ring the police that day. People from that neighborhood minded their own business and didn't expect police to provide any premium service. But her neighbor, Cas, must have hoped police attendance would serve as a catalyst for Louisa's second chance at freedom. This time, not after escaping but as a single woman in Australia. This was the first known interaction Louisa had with police about her tumultuous relationship. Sadly, it wouldn't be the last.

Even when we used to go and speak to him, I'm like, Joe, can you just stop? You're actually petrifying all of our children because we can hear you. My kids are crying. Can you just stop, really? It's not my fault. I had a bad day. I'm like, No. Stop. Otherwise, I'm going to just keep calling the police.

As January 2010 approached, it marked the one-year anniversary of Helen's death, and the couple's living situation had become increasingly intertwined. Jo had once again moved back in and taken up full-time residence with Louisa at the Seston Street Housing Unit. Valentine's Day in 2010 saw police responding to another call from Louisa's unit, this time at her request. Louisa had reached breaking point, informing the police that she had been experiencing mountain levels of conflict with her partner for the last three to four days. A statement from Louisa, given to the police at that time, gives us a glimpse into her thoughts. This statement will be read by a voice actor.

Over the past three or four days, Joe has treated me so bad that I've been too scared to leave my flat. What I mean by that is we've arguing over little things, like why there wasn't any food in the house, or why the cat hadn't been fed, stuff like that. When he's like this, I tend to just keep to myself and isolate myself and try not to get other people involved.

We will be back after a short break. A cast recommends, Podcasts We Love. This is not Without My Sister. The podcast where two sisters from Kildare, Ireland, now live in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and have lots of things to do with their time, but decided to do a podcast instead. We talk about the time Beatrice got kidnapped by a man who looked like Santa and then tried to squeeze her into his ex-wife's poochy pants to no avail. And not to be outdone, the time that Rosemarie dawned her best Game of Thrones larping costume and showed up on some unsuspecting handsome boy's doorway.

He was not even that. I'm trying to woo him back. This and more can be yours, not without my sister.

Acast is home to the world's best podcasts, including In the news from the Irish Times, Irish History podcast, I'm the one you're listening to right now. When Louisa's friend Indigo couldn't reach her on her birthday, she contacted Joe, who told her to come over and see Louisa herself. Indigo had no idea what had been going on, and Louisa had tried to keep the issues between her and Joe under wraps.

There was this incident where Louisa did ask for help, and essentially, I did help her or tried my best to help her, but Louisa ended up going back. That incident was on her birthday. I rang her on her birthday. Rang her in the morning, Happy birthday. Coming to see you. At the time, I went there, rocked up with my boyfriend at the time. As I was coming to the door, I'm like, Hello. Joe answered the door, and he's like, Your friend, and he's just screaming. I couldn't even actually understand. He goes, She's F, mate. I'm like, Where is she? And he's pointed upstairs. I run upstairs, and Louisa was in the fetal position on the bed, and she was crying, and she couldn't breathe. And she was just saying my name. And then I was like, Hugging her. And then he came up and he's like, All she wants is drugs, mate. All she wants is drugs. He's like, Get her drugs. That's what she wants. And I'm like, Joe, stop. Just stop. And he wouldn't stop. And then I said, How about you go home? And then my ex-boyfriend, but person I was dating at the time, was standing there at the doorway, and I said, Take him home.

So they started walking down the stairs. And the way my partner at the time as I described it was, he let him walk out, and then he pulled the door shut and locked the door and ran back upstairs. So at that point, my partner at the time was like, They're both in the house with him, and he's absolutely going psycho. So So he's come running upstairs, and I can't remember for the life of me what he was saying. He was screaming something, and he was trying to come at her. And then he went to jump for her, and I ended up jumping on top of her. I remember I had her under me, and he was over the back of me, hitting her, but he was actually getting me. And he was screaming. And then he came back. He got off her, and he's like, Get the F out of here to me. I didn't want to leave. And then he had something in his hand. I can't remember. It was a pair of scissors, maybe. It was something. He was like, Get out of here. Then she whisper in my ear, Just go. I whisper, I'm calling the police.

I walked out. Not that I wanted to, but I walked out, and I got in my car, and I parked around the corner, and I called the police. Anyway, we parked around the corner, and then he came around the corner in her mom's car, which was her car. It was like a CRV car. He came around, he spotted me in the court, and he pulled in the court, and he just started hurling abuse at me. And then he took off.

Police arrived soon after. Although Louisa told them everything that had happened, including allegations of being pushed, shoved, and being slapped across the face and head, Police at the time didn't observe any visible injuries when they arrived. This discrepancy is worth noting. As Louisa sat with police, she must have felt a glimmer of hope, a chance to unburden herself of the weight of her trauma. It was then that she revealed the true extent of her allegations, including a previously unreported incident where she said Joe had poured boiling water on her. Speaking to Indigo, this was It was also an allegation Louisa had shared with her in confidence.

She explained that they'd had a fight, and he'd poured the boiling water from the kettle on her, and then taken her to the hospital. She didn't tell me what the fight was about, but she was telling me the level of things he had done to her. There were incidents like this that she had told me and confided in me about that I knew he was hitting her. There were times that she had a black eye because he would just smack her. He was abusive.

A particular aspect about this story catches my attention. According to Louise's disclosure, after Joe allegedly poured boiling water over her, he drove her to the hospital for medical treatment. This detail raises a compelling question. If true, was this a genuine act of remorse on Joe's part? Domestic Violence Expert, Jolene Allert. In terms of remorse, The offenders can demonstrate remorse after an abuse of offense. However, there are many layers, and that sense of feeling remorse, whether that to be genuinely repulsed by their own actions or have feelings of guilt for harming or degrading or shaming another, where shame creeps into their own sense of self, really depends on the perpetrators. The following words were written by Louisa in her summing up of her statement to police.

I think I really need to stop seeing Joe. I don't want to proceed with any criminal charges against him. I make this decision of my own free will.

In this instance, police ultimately did not proceed with criminal charges and instead arranged for Louisa to receive crisis accommodation.

They ended up getting back together, and then after that, our friendship was quite limited. So that was the first time she asked for help. There was another time that she came and stayed with me when I was house sitting at my dad's, and she fought with Joe. It She wasn't speaking to him for a couple of days, just wasn't picking up the phone. But they were like the breaks that she would have from Joe. She would crack the shirt, say, enough is enough, come and stay with a friend for a week, but she'd always go back.

After the unsettling Valentine's Day incident, police tried to follow up with Louisa by phone in April and May. On both occasions, there was no answer. Later, in May 2010, police and a worker from Berry Street Family Violence Services visited Louisa's unit to conduct a welfare check. Despite police believing Louisa and Joe had separated, it was Joe who answered the door and claimed Louisa wasn't home.

That's where things are very complex because a lot of women just want the violence to stop, and they want their partner to come back.

As police waited with Joe at the house waiting for Louisa to return, when she did arrive home, police noted she seemed uneasy and reluctant to speak with them.

I think when the police used to come after hours, and she didn't really feel, I think, that there was any real follow-through. So I don't think she felt confident with the police at that point in her life because he just kept coming back. And then you'd ring, and then really, he wasn't held or whatever he went through in that process. I've got no idea. But I think she just felt just forgotten. Oh, well, they look at me. I'm on drugs. I'm a bit out of control. Maybe if she had any trouble when she was younger, I'm not sure. But yeah, definitely, I think she felt very let down, to be honest.

On this occasion, and with Jo by her side, she informed police she had reconciled with him. She felt secure and assured the officers that no further violence had occurred. Other people in her circle, such as Nurse Helen, strongly doubted that.

It was a disaster. It was really ugly. I said, Well, why are you still with him? You don't need to be with him. Oh, yeah, but he apologizes. The usual story. When he knew that Louisa was really got strength and was trying to avoid him. He would charm him with gifts. He was a very great manipulator.

Perhaps in an attempt to alleviate any concerns, Louisa also disclosed she was planning on traveling to Greece soon with her sister for an extended period of It may have seemed like Louisa was trying to reassure the police with a white lie about her travels to Greece, but in fact, this was every bit the truth. Louisa's sister had become increasingly worried about the hold Joe had over Louisa, so she had surprised her with a two-month trip to Greece as a chance to start a new without him.

From what the younger sister said, it was hell because every day Joe would ring, every day Joe will ring her and ring her. It was they both decided, and I both agreed with the girls, It's best to go overseas, go and see your grandma, and have a clean slate. Then as soon as they got to the plane, Joe was waiting. Off the plane, Joe was waiting for them. Then And then he was a nightmare after that. Then it was a downhill.

Indigo also had similar reservations about Louisa coming back from Greece.

I was like, Why did you come back? Why wouldn't you have stayed there? That day, I remember sitting at the table with her, and she He was saying, He's crazy. He's crazy. And I turned around to her, I'll never forget. And I said, Louisa, he's going to kill you. I said, He's going to kill you one day. Because of how cycle he was. He was just crazy. Being around him was scary.

Back in Melbourne, it seemed that nothing had changed, and Louisa was once again in Joe's grasp. At this point, it's important to note that we asked Joe to be involved with this series, and he declined. That means we can't put these matters to him and get his version of events. All we can do is listen to the stories of Louisa's family and friends and keep an open mind about what happened. Despite the challenges Louisa faced in her home life, she remained determined to secure stable employment enjoymentment. Paperwork found among her belongings after she died suggests that at one point, she even explored the possibility of applying to become a flight attendant, although it doesn't seem to have gone beyond the initial stages.

So When Louisa had jobs, he would always expect her to support him as well. If she ever said no to him, he would be like, Where's all the money going? And just question what she was doing because he didn't like her having the job and having her own money, because obviously that meant her independence, and she didn't have to be dependent on him, and he wanted her to be dependent on him. Then every time she gave him money, it would be the drugs and whatever else he was doing.

By January 2011, it had been two years since Louisa had lost her beautiful mother, Helen. Within those two years, life had been anything but smooth sailing. Louisa hadn't remained at the property she had once lived at with her mother and sister. But now, with her mother gone, her sister had also moved out, and their relationship had become estranged, mostly over her decision to move Jo in. Neighbor Cas can still recall some of the alleged conversations that exposed Joe's own insecurities.

I remember that all the time. If I can't have you, no, I'm not going to have you. I felt like he was so insecure in himself. When he saw Louisa being with her friends and outgoing and confident and brave and beautiful, he just hated it. He hated it with a passion.

On a quiet Monday afternoon in June 2011, four months before Louisa's death, tensions boiled over as Joe and Louisa engaged in the heated argument at home. The cycle of violence that had become all too familiar soon escalated when, according When he came to Louisa, Joe demanded Louisa's car keys and resorted to physical aggression when she refused. He allegedly pushed her down on the couch and delivered a kick to her leg before snatching her keys and driving off, leaving her behind. But this was far from the end of their altercation that day. When Joe returned home, he still refused to hand over her car keys. We have an idea of what happened next from the handwritten statement Louisa provided to police. These are her words, but not her voice. We have also changed any references to Joe's birth name, and a warning, there is strong language used.

At about 10:30 PM, Joe returned with my car. I said, Why'd you take my car? Can I have my keys? I want to go out. Joe said, You're not having your fucking keys. You're not fucking going anywhere. I then walked out to my car, sat in the driver's seat, even though I didn't have the keys. Joe came out to the car, grabbed me on the shoulder by the hair, and dragged me out of the car. Let fucking go of me. He said, Shut the fuck up and get inside, you fucking dog. Joe pulled me, and we ended up just inside the front door. We began to wrestle to get him off me. Somehow in the struggle, I managed to get the keys. I run out to the car, jump in the driver's seat, and quickly lock the car door. I reverse out of the driveway quickly and went straight to my friend's house, called the police. I've never given permission for Joe to hit me or abuse me or call me names. Joe's continuously taking my car without asking and without my permission. Police attended at my friend's house, and I've made the statement of my own free will.

Even Kez remembers this day quite clearly.

He didn't shy away from the violence towards her. He would drag her out of the unit, into the driveway, in the car. She'd be screaming, and he'd just locked the door, and I'd be banging on the door, calling the police. Horrible. It was horrible.

In addition to In taking Louise's statement, police now took action and charged Joe with assault. He was bailed, and the court date was scheduled for two months later in August 2011. Prior to this court date, police visited Louise's residence on the sixth of July as part of an operation referred to as Operation Checkup 2011. While the specifics of this operation are not known, it was described as an initiative by the Family Violence Unit to visit individuals identified as being at risk, aiming to prevent further incidents from occurring. Let's just pause here for a moment. As of the sixth of July, 2011, three months before she was found dead, Louisa had been identified as at risk, according to an operation run by the Police Family Violence Unit. How widely accessible was her inclusion on this list? Was there a record of police attendance in relation to this operation? Would the officer, we have referred to as TL in episode one, been able to see this at the time TAS reported Louisa missing? Would detectives at the CIU have been able to see this when Louisa was finally identified. At the time of publishing this episode, answers to these questions still remain unclear.

What we do know, however, is that when police showed up at Louisa's door as part of Operation Checkup 2011, there was no answer to repeated knocks. Either Louisa wasn't home, chose not to answer, or was unable to. A month later, another visit was made by police in a support worker, but again, there was no response to their repeated knocks. It remains unclear whether she, or Joe for that matter, was at home during that visit. In the summary provided to the coroner, police documented Louisa's his lack of response to these attempts as, and I quote, Refusing to engage offered services. But what refusal was it? How is it possible from a lack of response to determine whether it was a deliberate refusal, a refusal from ignorance, or perhaps even a refusal by influence. Domestic Violence Expert Betty Taylor.

She didn't refuse support at all. They didn't engage with her. That's how that should have been written up. She didn't refuse support. Not answering the door isn't a refusal for service. We get told repeatedly that she didn't engage. Don't see that as she didn't engage. See it, she wasn't able to engage, she wasn't safe to engage, or your service system wasn't flexible enough for her to engage. There can be a whole lot of reasons that women don't, but we've got to learn from that.

On the day of Joe's assault hearing, he failed to appear, and a warrant to arrest was issued and later executed. Joe was re-baled with an undertaking to appear on the 15th of November, 2011. This assault charge was still pending when Louisa was found dead in Darrobin Creek. Due to her death, this matter did not proceed. And a reminder, Louisa was found to have died with no suspicious circumstances, in a manner consistent with drowning. Despite facing assault charges at the time of her death, Jo would later claim to police that he never once hit Louisa.

My name is Kerry Cower, and to the moment, a junk professor in the School of Law and Society at the University of Sunshine Coast. I've had about three decades researching the policing and prevention of gender violence. She was obviously enmeshed in a cycle of domestic coercive control. But I do think, though, that that was very much diminished in the coroner's report. I don't think a coroner could get away with diminishing it that lightly today.

Examining the circumstances surrounding Louise's tragic death, an overarching question stands out. Was it a terrible accident, or did she choose to end her life in the nearby creek as a desperate act brought on by the fear and trauma of domestic violence? Or was it something else entirely. Despite asking for help from domestic violence services earlier in the year, Louisa, for whatever reason, did not follow up their offer of assistance. This leaves us grappling with the thought, was she seeking a different way out? As we continue to explore this case, we must consider all possibilities and question the factors that led to such a devastating outcome. Still to come on Troubled Waters.

I said, Look, you tell me when. I'll pick you up. I'll take you to the airport. I will pay for your ticket to Greece. But a one-way ticket, Louisa. You go, you don't come back.

That's what sometimes runs through my mind. If she was a young girl without any trouble, would things have been different?

Casefile presents Troubled Waters as written and produced by Julia Robinson and Claire McGrath. Audio production by Mike Magus. Audio editing by Anthony Telfer. Voice actor is Taya Nicholas. Special thanks to Professor Kerry Carrington, Jolene Allet, and Betty Taylor. If you need any support regarding any of the topics raised in this podcast, please reach out to services such as Lifeline on 13114, 1800 Respect, or the Men's Referral Service on 1300, 766 491. Listeners outside of Australia should refer to their local services.