Former President Trump is back on X. He rarely posts there, but put up some messages and also showed up to chat with the owner, his supporter Elon Musk. What did the interview reveal about Musk's evolving business? I'm Steve Inskeep, and this is Up First from NPR News. Minnesota Governor Tim Walls is campaigning solo today. He'll meet with one of the nation's largest labor unions to promote the cause of Vice President Harris. It's very simple. She stands on the side of the American people and the American worker. What role do unions play in this year's Democratic coalition? Also, a public letter from a drug cartel leader is raising questions about possible collusion between organized crime and the government of Mexico. Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day. Here At Shortwave Space Camp, we escape our everyday lives to explore the mysteries and quirks of the universe.

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The world's richest man interviewed Donald Trump last evening. Elon Musk said beforehand, entertainment guaranteed. He had time to say that because the interview on X started 42 minutes late. The site, once known as Twitter, did a lot of traffic last evening as people asked what was happening. The owner of the site claimed without evidence that his site faced a cyber attack, although the real problem appeared to be tactical issues, as had happened to Musk in a similar situation before. Anyway, he did talk with the Republican presidential candidate, and NPR's Bobby Allen listened. Bobby, good morning. Hey, Steve. Two hours of discussion. How did it go?

Well, it depends how you measure it. In terms of new information, there wasn't very much, but there were some memorable moments. Trump said his assassination attempt renewed his faith in God. He said several times that he's worried about what he's calling nuclear warming. It's the first time I ever heard that phrase. Apparently, he's referring to the threat of nukes around the world.

Okay, playing off global warming, which he did.

Exactly.

That's right.

That's right. Now, the two of them didn't exactly have the best chemistry. Musk lobed all sorts of friendly questions his way. But Trump would use that as an opportunity to just rant on about all sorts of things. Then Musk would chime in and give his own speech. It seemed like they were talking past each other quite a bit, but they did come together at times. Here, the two of them are agreeing on immigration enforcement.

It's just not possible for the United States to absorb everyone from Earth or even a few % of the rest of Earth. It's just not possible.

Well, Elon, we're going to have just to finish this up, we're going to have the largest deportation in history of this country, and we have no choice. Yeah. And they also agreed on things like cutting government regulations, cracking down on violence in big cities, and tackling inflation.

Well, this is the first time we've had such a major social media platform run by a single person who openly roots for one presidential candidate. Musk has endorsed Trump. What do you make of that?

Yeah, well, before, Musk, Twitter's executives really went out of their way to not put their finger on the scale when it came to politics. Of course, Twitter would defend against all sorts of allegations of bias. And after the January sixth attacks on the Capitol, Twitter suspended Trump, and that really energized Trump supporters as proof of bias. But there wasn't this top-down political agenda as overtly as it is now. What we heard last night, Steve, I think is really a full embracing of Trump as a candidate by Musk. What's almost as interesting as Twitter's pivot was hearing Musk himself talk about his own political evolution.

They tried to paint me as a far-right guy, which is absurd because I'm making electric vehicles and solar and batteries helping the environment.

I actually I supported Obama. I stood in line for six hours to shake Obama's hand when he was running for President.

Yeah, and he brought up this anecdote as a way to appeal to moderate Democrats as saying, Hey, I used to be like one of you, but now he believes in Trump.

Well, is the presidential campaign helping his business?

Well, the 2024 presidential campaign is certainly energizing the platform. I mean, many key moments have played out on the site President Biden announced that he was stepping aside on X. Many other viral moments from both campaigns have started on X. But right, this new momentum isn't yet translating into any financial success. Advertising is still down 60% from last year, and that does remain X's biggest problem.

We should mention that Musk says he's willing to interview Kamala Harris as well. Bobby, thanks so much. Thanks, Steve. And Pierre's Bobby Allen. Tim Walsh is making his first solo campaign stop today. He made a string of stops with Vice President Harris last week after she chose him as her running mate. Now, the Minnesota governor is scheduled to meet with one of America's largest labor unions at their convention in Los Angeles, California. Npr Labor and Workplace Correspondent Andrea Hsu is here. Andrea, good morning. Good morning. I'm thinking about unions here as a building block of the Democratic Party. So who's he talking with?

Yeah, well, the Union is the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees. They have about one and a half million members, mostly state and local government workers, but also cultural workers like people who work at museums and libraries and zoos. And of course, California is not a swing state, but these members have come to this gathering from all over the country, including from swing states. This is really about building on the momentum, the excitement that Kamala Harris and Tim Walsh have been riding since each of them entered this race, really. Walsh is a former Union member himself from his school teacher days. He's going to highlight everything Vice President Harris has done for workers and will continue to do if she's elected President. Here he was making a similar case to Union Auto Workers in Michigan last week.

It's very simple. She stands on the side of the American people and the American worker. Okay, so what is the role of labor unions in the Democratic Party coalition in 2024?

Well, traditionally, unions support Democrats, and the members who show up at these events don't need convincing, but they're the people who can be out there doing the convincing. Here's what Walsh told the workers at that stop in Michigan.

This is a bit of preaching to the choir, but the choir needs to sing right now. The choir needs to sing.

So for Walls, these events are like a rallying cry. Go out and talk to your friends and neighbors. Get them on board.

Well, what is Walls passing on as a message about former President Trump?

Well, both he and Harris are noting that the differences between the two tickets could not be greater. One supports organized labor and the workers who want to be a part of that, while the other simply doesn't. But Steve, Trump, of course, does have a base of support among some union workers. For example, I visited an aluminum foundry in Northern Wisconsin last month in a solidly red part of that state. But he's been out there reminding people of everything Trump did while he was President to weaken unions, and especially government employee unions like the one he is addressing today. And he's been warning about Project 2025. That's the blueprint for a new Trump administration that was pulled together by the Conservatives The Think Tank, The Heritage Foundation. It talks about firing civil servants and replacing them with political appointees, even possibly banning public employee unions altogether.

What do these unions think about Tim Walls?

Well, labor advocates have been thrilled with him. Last year, after Democrats in Minnesota gained control of both the House and the Senate, Walls signed this flurry of pro-worker laws aimed at protecting the most vulnerable workers in the state, including nursing home workers and Amazon warehouse house workers. So in Minnesota, all workers now earn paid sick days unlike much of the country. And in a couple of years, they'll have paid family and medical leave as well. Now, Republicans in the state have pointed to all of this as evidence of just how far left Tim Wall's truly is. They're saying, look, he's not someone who's going to work across the aisle if he doesn't have to. And the Trump campaign has ceased on this. They describe him as excessively liberal. Former President Trump, who likes nicknames, has come up with one for the Minnesota governor. He's been calling him Comrade Walls. Okay.

Npr Labor and Workplace Correspondent Andrea Hsu. Thanks for the insights. Really appreciate it.

You're welcome, Steve.

Now, let's probe a mystery surrounding the capture of Ismail Almayo Zembada. He is one of Mexico's most notorious drug lords. He was flown to the United States last month, but neither the US nor Mexico have been saying much about his capture. Now, El Mayo himself is releasing details in a public letter, which NPR Zader Peralta has been reading. Good morning.

Good morning, Steve.

What's the letter say?

Look, from the beginning, the story just seemed a little too simple. Us officials arrested Ismael El Mayo Zambada at a New Mexico airport alongside another top leader of the Sinaloa cartel, Joaquin Guzman López, and they hinted that it was in operation, but broadly, one that happened without any violence. The Americans eventually did say, Look, we were negotiated with Joaquin Guzman López so he could turn himself in, but without telling us, he brought us this much bigger fish. Then Zambada, in this public letter, said that he was betrayed by Guzmán, the son of his former partner, El Chapo Guzmán, the guy who he had known from the time he was a baby. Zambada said that Guzmán tricked him into thinking he was going to meet with the governor of Sinaloa, and instead, he said Guzmán tied him up and flew him to the US. This is eye-popping for the drama, but also because Zambada essentially alleging collusion between the state and organized crime. He says he was not only expecting to meet with important government officials, but that he also showed up to the meeting with a police commander who he says had run his security for years.

Oh, Wow. So he's telling a story and also alleging a scandal. Well, what is the Mexican government saying?

The President of Mexico has spent the last few weeks saying Mexico had nothing to do with this. But yesterday, as President Andrés Manuel López Obrador reacted to these accusations of collusion, he got defensive. What makes the US think, he said, that by arresting a famous drug dealer, they can fix their addiction problem. He said this arrest, like others in the past, are part of an American strategy to tar foreign governments, to allege collusion in order to subjugate them. But part of what the Mexican President is reacting to is that this arrest could open a can of worms. Everyone in Mexico whispers about the collusion between the drug cartels and the government. But these are no longer whispers. This is the top drug lord putting words on paper and naming names. And this is sensitive because it could lead not just to the downfall of politicians, but it can spark violent retaliations among armed groups.

Oh, which I know you have been reporting on. What have you seen when you have left Mexico City where you are and looked at Southern Mexico?

We haven't seen an explosion of violence. I was reporting on the fighting between the Sinaloa cartel and the invading Jalisco cartel, and it's heartbreaking. I saw farm workers forcefully recruited into cartel work. I saw whole families who had to flee their homes. Then when they came back, they found their houses had been looted and that their farm animals were gone or dead. I know that when these arrests happened, we tend to focus on the police work or the geopolitics of it. But on the ground, the turf wars run by these men, they're painful. It's likely that the civilians in Mexico will be the ones who will suffer the most in whatever the fallout of these arrests turn out to be.

Npr Zeta Peralta. Always a pleasure to hear from you, sir. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Steve.

That's Up First for this Tuesday, August 13th. I'm Steve Inskeep. Your next listen is Consider This from NPR News. Tim Walls has been accused by Republicans of misrepresenting his military record. So what is the story of his 24 years of service? Listen to Consider This. Today's Up First was edited by Julia Redpath, Palavi Gagoy, Miguel Messias, Jeneya Williams, and H. J. Mai. It was produced by Zyad Butch, Nia Dumas, and Lily Quiroz. We get engineering support from Arthur Laurent, and our technical director is the ever-patient Zack Coleman. Join us tomorrow.

Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Prime members can listen to Up First sponsor-free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get Up First Plus at plus.

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