Transcribe your podcast
[00:00:01]

Michelle, my belle. I'm trying to think of other songs that feature the word Michelle.

[00:00:08]

That's not it.

[00:00:16]

French authorities indicted the co founder of Telegram.

[00:00:20]

He's accused of letting people use his app for crimes and then not cooperating with authorities. What are the implications for other tech giants like Metta and X?

[00:00:28]

I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin, and this is Up First from NPR News. The Trump campaign is pushing back against controversy over images taken at Arlington National Cemetery. You guys in the media, you're acting like Donald Trump filmed a TV commercial at a gravesite. Well, he did use footage from gravesites in a TikTok post. Federal law prohibits the use of cemeteries for political purposes.

[00:00:56]

And false claims about non-citizens voting are affecting some eligible of liberal voters.

[00:01:00]

It doesn't surprise me at all, considering the narrative that's out there right now.

[00:01:05]

Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day.

[00:01:14]

The Constitution, our founding document, says a lot about how our country has evolved and who we want to be, but it's not set in stone. So for the next month, we'll be digging into the history behind some of its most pivotal amendments. Listen to We the People on the Thru-Line podcast from NPR. If you think the economy makes no sense right now, you are probably right because even economists can't explain it lately. But our podcast, The Indicator from Planet Money. We're a little dose of clarity on the biggest economic questions of the day. And about the forces that affect your life. In 10 minutes or less, every weekday, The Indicator from Planet Money from NPR. If you're hearing this, that means you haven't gone sponsor-free with NPR Plus. Join us on the plus side for awesome podcast perks across more than 20 NPR podcasts, including bonus episodes, behind-the-scenes content, sponsor-free listening, and more.

[00:02:16]

Learn more and sign up at plus.

[00:02:18]

Npr. Org. And never hear this promo again.

[00:02:23]

A French court has indicted tech billionaire, Pavel Dourot, on charges that he allowed a wide range of crimes to flourish on the messaging platform Telegram.

[00:02:32]

This is a case of interest to anybody who uses social media and of special interest if you happen to be one of the billionaires who own social media platforms. Dourot is co founder of this service. It's an app you download on your phone, you can send private encrypted messages or talk on public channels. He's not accused of committing crimes himself, but of running the platform where crimes took place and then of failing to cooperate with authorities. The charges followed Dourot's surprise arrest, and they add to the debate about free speech in the internet.

[00:03:02]

Repoter Rebecca Rossmann has been following the case we caught up with her in London. Good morning, Rebecca. Good morning. Before we get into these charges, can you just tell us a little bit more about Telegram and its CEO?

[00:03:13]

The CEO, Pavel Dourov, is someone who has long been seen as an anti-establishment figure. He was born in the then Soviet Union in the mid-1980s. His first big social media company was actually a site called VK, which is Russia's answer to Facebook. He famously left Russia in 2014, though, after refusing using to comply with the Kremlin's demands that he turn over information about the site's users. This is what prompted him to start Telegram, which he now runs from Dubai. While it's less popular in the US, it has nearly a billion users worldwide and is especially popular in countries like Brazil, India, Russia, and Ukraine. One thing that users find particularly attractive about the platform is its limited oversight of what users can say or do. But this has also made the app a favorite tool for far-right extremist groups, terrorist organizations, and criminal gangs.

[00:04:01]

Is that what led to these charges?

[00:04:03]

Yeah, more or less. The Paris Prosecutor's Office announced a pretty wide range of charges yesterday evening, but they're mostly tied to allegations that Durav was complicit in the spread of all kinds of illegal activities on Telegram. Things like the spread of child, sexual abuse materials, drug trafficking, and money laundering. French investigators say Duraud failed to cooperate with them or provide information that would have helped them shut down these illegal operations. He's now He's under judicial supervision and is banned from leaving French territory. He also had to post a bond of five and a half million dollars and will be required to report to French police twice a week while he's under investigation. If he's convicted, he could face up to a decade in prison. I should say these charges are groundbreaking in the sense that this would certainly appear to be the harshest action any government has taken against a social media executive to date.

[00:04:54]

Okay, France is not the only place where people are worried that these platforms are being used to commit crimes and also to spoke social division, which has actually led to violence in many places. But there are also the free speech absolutists who consider rulemaking a form of censorship. I take it we're hearing a lot of outrage from some of these folks, especially from other tech moguls.

[00:05:15]

Right. And what these tech moguls say is that it is simply not their job to be policing these platforms, and that forcing them to do so actually sets a dangerous precedent for free speech on the internet. A number of well-known individuals have spoken out against Durav's arrest. You have people like Elon Musk who posted the hashtag freepauvre on his platform X. But the French government has defended its actions, with even French President Emmanuel Macron himself taking to X earlier this week to write his country was, deeply committed to freedom of expression, but that in a state governed by the rule of law, things need to be upheld within a legal framework, whether that's in real life or on social media.

[00:05:58]

That is reporter Rebecca Rossmann in London. Rebecca, thank you.

[00:06:02]

Thank you.

[00:06:11]

Former President Donald Trump shared a TikTok video, including footage that raises questions about whether it violates federal law against using military cemeteries for campaign purposes.

[00:06:22]

That social media post is how Trump has used a video and images taken amid grave sites at Arlington National Cemetery. Trump visited there on Monday, and as NPR has reported, Trump campaign staffers had a physical altercation with an Arlington National Cemetery staffer who tried to reinforce the restriction. The campaign is seeking to downplay the incident.

[00:06:45]

And pair of Stephen Fowler is with us with an update, and also to talk about the political implications of this incident. Good morning, Steven.

[00:06:51]

Good morning.

[00:06:52]

So, Trump was at Arlington Monday for a remembrance of the third anniversary of a suicide bombing in Afghanistan, in which 13 US service members were killed and he posted a video about it online. So just remind us of what the controversy is about.

[00:07:06]

There's three key things to note about this story, first broken by our colleague, Quill Lawrence. One, a pair of Trump campaign staffers had a verbal and physical altercation with an Arlington staffer who tried to stop them from filming in a part of the cemetery known as Section 60 because it's against the rules. Two, federal law also prevents the use of cemeteries as backgrounds or props for political campaigns. Three, the Trump campaign did it anyways with pictures pictures, and now a TikTok video showing Trump and some family members of the deceased posing at headstones.

[00:07:35]

And what are those family members saying?

[00:07:38]

Well, in a statement from the Gold Star family members that invited Trump, they say they gave approval for his videographer and photographer to document the emotional moment. It's also important to note the family members who invited Trump also spoke at the Republican National Convention. Like Sheryl Jules, who's the aunt of Sergeant Nicole G, one of the 13 service members killed in the attack at Abbeygate. They used that time on stage to bash President Biden and vocally endorse Trump.

[00:08:03]

Donald Trump loves this country and will never forget the sacrifice and bravery of our service members.

[00:08:09]

Join us in putting him back in the White House.

[00:08:14]

Michelle, even though they were okay with the cameras, the families don't have the power to suspend the rules. Also, NPR has learned the family of a Green Beret who died by suicide, whose headstones visible in those pictures and videos did not give permission to be included, which highlights one reason for the ban on campaigning in such a sensitive environment.

[00:08:33]

What has been the Trump campaign's response to the information, the reporting about this altercation, other than putting on a video that does seem to be flouting these rules?

[00:08:43]

There's been some nastiness in the response. The Trump campaign's spokesman said the Arlington representative was, Clearly suffering from a mental health episode. On the campaign trail yesterday, Trump vice presidential nominee JD Vance said vice President Kamala Harris could, Go to hell over the Afghanistan withdrawal and blamed reporters for the controversy.

[00:09:02]

You guys in the media, you're acting like Donald Trump filmed a TV commercial at a gravesite. He was there providing emotional support to a lot of brave Americans who lost loved ones they never should have lost. And there happened to be a camera there, and somebody gave him permission to have that camera there.

[00:09:19]

He did, in fact, film a commercial there, which he then put on TikTok.

[00:09:23]

So obviously, we're in the thick of this 2024 presidential campaign. Do we have a sense of how voters might be seeing this or what this adds to our picture of Trump as a candidate and as a once and possibly future commander-in-chief?

[00:09:35]

Well, Trump's also been accused of calling dead soldiers, quote, Suckers and losers, stoke controversy for saying civilian Medal of Freedom recipients are much better than those who receive the Medal of Honor. And so all of these things would be a big deal for any other candidate. But this is a perfect encapsulation of life under Trump.

[00:09:51]

That is NPR Steven Fowler. Steven, thank you.

[00:09:54]

Thank you.

[00:10:01]

It is illegal for non-citizens to vote in federal elections, and there's no credible evidence that it happens in significant numbers.

[00:10:10]

That has not stopped some politicians from talking as if non-citizens vote or could vote. Republicans talk of them voting for Democrats as they advocate what they describe as ballot security measures.

[00:10:22]

Joining us now is NPR's Jude Joffy-Block. She's been covering issues around democracy and how false narratives affect the country. Jude, welcome. Thanks for joining us.

[00:10:31]

Hello.

[00:10:32]

Why are we hearing so many claims about non-citizens voting this year?

[00:10:37]

So Trump has a history of claiming that elections are rigged against him. In 2020, he raised fears around voting by mail. And this Here, he's seized on record crossings by migrants to suggest it's part of a plot to steal the election. And this rhetoric is concerning to a lot of people like Jessaleen sing. She's an attorney at the nonprofit Brennan Center for Justice, which advocates for voting rights. It's just another tactic to undermine this election and sow doubt in the election and to set up the ability for election deniers to call into question the election results after November 2024.

[00:11:14]

So, Jude, what impact does this rhetoric have in the real world?

[00:11:18]

So first, there's already lots of guardrails that states use to make sure that people are lawfully voting. But at least four states with Republican leadership are announcing new processes and efforts to remove non citizens from the voter rolls. Of course, maintaining voter rolls is a critical election safeguard. The key is how you do it. For one, federal law says it can't happen within 90 days of an election, and you have to be really careful to not mistakenly target eligible voters. But in my reporting, I found out these efforts are sweeping up US citizens who are eligible to vote.

[00:11:51]

Say more about that. What happened to these voters?

[00:11:53]

One of them is William Pritchett. He's 59. He was born and raised in Alabama, has always been a US citizen. He's one of 3,200 people in Alabama who are getting letters from election officials saying they could be non-citizens, so their voter registration is now inactive. The letter says, If you are a US citizen and eligible to vote, you should re-register. It's not really clear at this point how Pritchett got flagged, but it shows these methods are prone to error. Pritchett quickly updated his registration, but he thinks the whole effort is misguided. It doesn't surprise me at all, considering the The narrative that's out there right now where they're basically trying to convince people that the election will be decided by non-citizens that are voting or whatever, which is, in my opinion, is a false narrative. I also talked to several naturalized citizens in Tennessee who got similar letters earlier this summer that felt to them like voter intimidation. In Texas, a rumor spread by a Fox business host that was debunked about non-citizens supposedly registering to vote led to the state's attorney general launching a criminal investigation into voter registration groups.

[00:13:04]

So, Jude, where do things stand as we get closer to the election?

[00:13:07]

Well, advocacy groups are paying close attention. They've asked Tennessee and Alabama to halt these efforts, saying they violate federal law. And Tennessee later said people who got letters would not be purged from the voter rolls. Alabama's Secretary of State told NPR, Anyone who got a letter and is a citizen can still vote on election day if they show proof. But he's also said he sent the names on this list over to the State's attorney general for investigation. There's a chilling effect that comes from all of this that could prompt eligible citizens to opt out of participating.

[00:13:37]

That is NPR's Jude Joffy Block. Jude, thank you.

[00:13:40]

Thank you.

[00:13:45]

That's Up First for Thursday, August 29th. I'm Michelle Martin.

[00:13:49]

I'm Steve Inskeep. For your next listen, Consider This, which is the name of a podcast that goes deep on one big story of the day.

[00:13:57]

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Kevin Drew, Megan Pratz, Brett Neely, Alice Wolfley, and Jan Johnson. It was produced by Zeeb Butch, Nia Dumas, and Nina Kravinsky. We get engineering support from Carly Strange, and our technical director is Stacey Abbott. We hope you'll join us again tomorrow. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Prime members can listen to Up First sponsor-free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get Up First Plus at plus. Npr. Org. That's plus. Npr. Org.

[00:14:45]

The candidates for November are set.

[00:14:47]

I know Donald Trump's type.

[00:14:50]

Between now and election day. We are not going back. A campaign season unfolding faster. Kamala Harris is not getting a promotion. Than any in recent history. Make America great again. Follow it all with new episodes every weekday on the NPR politics podcast. Okay, so tell me if this sounds like you. You love NPR's podcast. You wish they weren't interrupted by sponsor breaks like this one. And you want to support NPR's mission of creating a more informed public. If this does sound like you, then it's time to sign up for perks across more than 20 podcasts with the NPR Plus bundle.

[00:15:28]

Learn more at npr. Org.