You. Hi, Johnny Sexton here looking for your help to launch the Mace Unsung Heroes Community Awards. If there's an unsung hero who goes that extra mile to make a difference to your community, they could win a share of the 10,000 Euro prize fund.

From charity and environment to sports, diversity and youth. There are ten prizes of 1000 euro for the most worthy heroes. Nominate your unsung heroes before the 10 December at Mace ie mace. Going the extra smile och County, Oklahoma is getting a lot of attention right now because of Martin Scorsese's latest movie, Killers of the Flower Moon, about the 1920s Och murders. I'm Rachel Adams heard the host of Entrust for over a year. I reported a different story about other ways white people got osage land and wealth, and how a prominent ranching family became one of the biggest landowners here. Listen to the award winning podcast entrust on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, beautiful people, I'm Sayida Garrett, award winning singer songwriter and passionate knitter, and now host of the Uppity Knitter podcast Celebrity Hobbies Uncovered. I'll be spilling the tea on the hidden talents of your favorite stars. Tune in to the Uppity Knitter podcast, Celebrity Hobbies Uncovered, with me, Syeda Garrett, for a stitch of inspiration and pearls of laughter. Subscribe now on the iHeartRadio App and Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

November 22, 163. Earlier that day in Dallas, President Kennedy had been shot after the doctors at Parkland Hospital feverishly tried to save his life. At approximately 01:00 p.m.. He was officially pronounced dead. The President's body was then loaded onto Air Force One, flown to Washington, and taken to Bethesda Naval Medical Center, where a team of pathologists began not just the most important autopsy of their careers, but the most important autopsy in American history. 36 hours later, pathologists Dr. J. Thornton Boswell and Dr. James Humes concluded their work. Dr. Humes finished the autopsy report at home. Now, he fully understands the importance of this report. It'll be a central piece of the official record that describes how the President was killed. It will be part of history, and it has to be precise. But here's what he tells the Warren Commission the following year. Soledad, could you read this? It's Dr. Humes describing what he did that evening.

Dr. Humes says, quote, in the privacy of my own home, early in the morning of Sunday, November 24, I made a draft of this report, which I later revised, and of which this represents the revision. That draft I personally burned in the fireplace of my recreation room.

Okay, could you repeat that last sentence?

That draft I personally burned in the fireplace of my recreation room. So he's admitting to the Warren Commission that he burned the original draft of the report, then made a revised draft.

And once the revelation that Humes had burned the original copy of the autopsy, he had to continue to defend himself.

In 1992, Dr. Humes told The New York Times that the original copy was stained with blood and he didn't want it to become a, quote, ghoulish collector's item. He insisted that the second report was copied verbatim, word for word from the draft he burned.

If it was only about accepting the lame excuse of preserving the President's dignity, we might buy it. But burning the autopsy report wasn't the only thing about the forensic investigation that was suspicious, starting with the two so called forensic pathologists that were in charge. Humes and Boswell were not forensic pathologists.

That's Doug Horn. From 1995 to 1998, he was a senior staff member of the President john F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board, and he's an expert on the case.

Now, it should be troubling to everybody who studies this case that the two people selected to be the number one and number two pathologist. These guys were pathologists who did deaths due to natural causes. So Humes and Boswell really weren't qualified to be doing this autopsy, and yet they were picked.

So you have two doctors who are not certified nor qualified in forensic pathology, and the lead doctor throws his notes into the fireplace before handing in a revised draft.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

This is who killed JFK. 60 years later. What can we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history? And why does it still matter today? I'm your host, Soledad O'Brien.

In the last episode, we learned that it was the intent of the Warren Commission to prove that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin of President Kennedy. Alan Dulles, the godfather of the CIA, was placed on the Commission to make sure that any damning information about the CIA was kept hidden. J. Edgar Hoover ignored evidence that might implicate anyone other than Oswald. Then, in 1976, after learning that the Warrant Commission had been compromised, the House Select Committee on Assassinations launched a new investigation. And though they were able to expose more than the Warren Commission had, they, too learned afterwards that their efforts had been compromised. Because the liaison to the CIA that they were given was a man named George Joanides. He was a retired CIA agent who oversaw the special ops program that had recruited Lee Harvey Oswald. And Joanneides made sure that the new committee never knew about that. And although the House investigation concluded that Kennedy was killed as a result of a conspiracy, they came to no conclusion as to who took part in it. The result? Two flawed government investigations with two completely different conclusions.

So where does it leave us?

Well, first, let's look at the forensics how the victim died. After that, we'll take a look at the man who they claim did it. We'll dive into Oswald's world. We'll find out who he really was, who he may have been working for, how he was set up, and who could have pulled this off. Then we'll have it all unfold again from the days leading up to the assassination to the moment that Jack Ruby silenced Oswald. Except this time, when we ultimately relive it. We'll know the forces hiding in the shadows behind it all. Okay, so let's get into this. In any murder case, the forensic evidence is critical. It paints the picture of how the victim died. And in this case, to prove a single gunman the forensic evidence should be straightforward. But trust me, it's far from that. The bullets, the gun, the photographs, the doctor's firsthand reports are all heavily disputed. And in this episode, we're going to go through all of that. As I said, like any other murder, you need to understand the forensic evidence. Forensic evidence. It mattered because it was essential in determining the site from which the shot was fired.

That's the key to the case.

That's Dr. Cyril Wecht, renowned forensic pathologist.

The Warrant Commission report saying that Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole assassin, the sole shooter and that he fired from behind from the 6th floor window of the Texas School Book Depository Building. And that there were no other shooters. That's the essence of the case. Because once you show two shooters, then you've got, of course, a conspiracy. So let's take a look. According to the Warren Report, Oswald fired three shots.

How did they arrive at that number?

It was based on two initial pieces of evidence. One was the Dallas police report and the second was the subruder film.

Remember the Dallas dressmaker? Abraham Zapruder got the whole thing on camera.

The separateer film has no sound, so you can't hear the shots. But you can see the President being hit twice. And you can also see Governor Connolly sitting in the passenger seat in front of Kennedy also getting hit. The Sapruda film clearly shows three hits. So the Warren Commission established three shots. Unfortunately for them, there was a bystander named James Tag.

That's Dr. David mantic. Dr. Mantic has made nine visits to the National Archives where the President's x rays, autopsy photos and other critical evidence sits available for select members of the public to review. You could try to get an appointment to see them or you could read any of the three books Dr. Mantic has written about them. According to Dr. Mantic this bystander was about to create a huge problem for the Warren Commission.

James Tag was standing under the overpass to the left front of the limousine who was hit by some debris. It might have been a piece of concrete. He's watching the motorcade when the first shot rings out and he feels something sharp hit him in the cheek. It was a piece of cement from the curb. And all of a sudden his cheek starts bleeding. So clearly the first shot completely missed the motorcade. So this left the Warrant Commission only two shots to work with to explain all the wounds. So they knew that one bullet had to kill Kennedy via a headshot. So there goes one. You're only left with one more shot. With that one shot, you have to explain everything else. So that's where Arlin Spector rode to the rescue on his shining white horse and invented the magic Bullet Theory, otherwise known as the single bullet theory. And so now begins the saga of the single bullet theory.

That's Dr. Wechtigan, and he deserves a full introduction. He's a highly decorated forensic expert who's done more than 17,000 autopsies and who's been probing the JFK assassination since the 1960s. He's one of the most vocal critics of the Warren Report and the Single bullet Theory.

Enter Arlen Spector at that time junior legal counsel for the Warren Commission. Specter, to his credit, came up with what seemed to be a solution for them, and that is known as the single bullet Theory.

You'll remember Arlin Spector from our last episode? The journalist Gaiton Fonzie pressed him on his single bullet theory. And when he gave Fonzie an evasive answer, fonzie published a scathing article.

The single bullet theory holds that one bullet entered the President's back to begin with, moved upward, moving then inside the President's chest. Eleven and a half degrees upward. How in the hell is that possible? When the bullet comes out, it's moving again downward, leftward and forward. Turns in midair, comes back 1820 inches and hits conley behind the right armpit, exiting below nipple level. The bullet in midair, turns upward, sweeping motion, goes into the wrist, causes a common unit fracture of one of the two long bones from the elbow to the wrist. Exits from the wrist, reenters the Governor's left thigh, and that is the pathway of the single bullet.

The bullet presumably leaves the gun from the 6th floor of the building that's now above and behind Kennedy. And the bullet enters President Kennedy's back. Looking at a picture of the President's jacket, which you can easily find online, the bullet hole is in the upper middle part of his suitcoat, right?

Then it supposedly turns upward and comes out of his throat. Well, my colleagues or others who try to defend that single bowl of theory, they say, well, what if the President were bent over tying his shoe? No, he wasn't doing that. He was looking at the crowd and cheering and waving.

It's pretty clear when you watch the subruder film, he is not hunched over. The President is poised upward toward the crowd.

When Governor Connolly testified to the Warren Commission that's Dick Russell, he repeated multiple times that he was not hit by the same bullet that had hit JFK. As a matter of fact, if you look at the Zapruda film, you'll see that when Kennedy reacts to getting hit in the throat, connolly then turns around to see what happened. Then moments later, he gets hit. There's no way that it can be the same bullet that hit Kennedy. The surgeons who operated on Governor Connelly's wrist and chest wounds at Parkland also noted that they did not think all of his wounds had been made by the same bullet.

It seems to me people are divided into two camps, right? There are people who believe the single bullet theory and people who think the single bullet theory is crazy. If you believe it, then you believe that one bullet caused all that damage.

But it's not just about the path of the bullet. To fully consider the single bullet theory, you have to ask yourself two questions. The first question how did the bullet look when it was recovered? If God came to me and said, wet, I want you to get rid of every single piece of evidence and I'll allow you to keep one thing, one thing only, that would be the bullet as it was recovered. It is nearly perfect condition. You can see a picture of that bullet in the National Archives. It's listed as a Warren Commission exhibit three nine nine. A bullet that went in and out of both Kennedy and Connolly, breaking Connolly's bones, still looked pristine. Which brings us to the second question where did they find the magic bullet? What happened later on was that a maintenance man finding the Er corridor blocked by a stretcher, bent down to move the stretcher and lo and behold, there was a bullet. The bullet pristine. Nobody had seen this bullet missed by everybody at Dallas, missed by everybody at Parkland before then, and so on. That was the official story. This pristine bullet just appeared on a stretcher in Parkland.

A mystery that has confused researchers for decades. Until in September 2023, there was a bombshell. A Secret Service agent named Paul Landis was on the running board of the car behind Kennedy. New bombshell claims tonight by one of the Secret Service agents who was closest to John F. Kennedy when he was assassinated. A new version of what might have happened to the magic bullet.

Former Secret Service agent Paul Landis, who was with the President that day, is opening up for the first time about what he witnessed that, according to the.

New York Times, could, quote, change the understanding of what happened in Dallas in 1963.

So Rob, I saw this story in primetime, on CNN, on NBC, it was in People magazine, it was in Vanity Fair, it was in the New York Times. They all covered it.

Right? And Paul Landis was kind enough to talk with us. Paul, from where the President was sitting, how far behind were you? Probably 15, no more than 20ft. Can you just describe what you saw at the moment that the President was hit? Shortly after the second shot, I heard the third shot, saw the President's head split wide open amidst the blood and flesh and brain matter flew into the air. I ducked to avoid getting splattered and at that point we zoomed under the underpass and we were on our way to Tartland Memorial Hospital. I raced to the President's limousine. Mrs. Kennedy was sitting on left center of the rear seat. There was a pool of blood next to Mrs. Kennedy. And as soon as she stood up, right behind where she had been sitting, there was a pristine bullet. I picked this bullet up. It was not disformed, other than it had recognized striations on it that it had been fired. I'm looking around. Everybody was concentrating on the President. I didn't know what to do right away, but I was afraid. This bullet was an important piece of evidence and I didn't want it to get lost.

So I slipped it in my pocket and we raced in with gurney carrying the President's body. And we arrived at trauma room One. People were shoving, pushing, shouting. I happened to be pushed up right next to his feet. So I reached into my pocket, took it out, and placed it by the President. Jew so what does this tell us? Unless the single bullet theorists are going to claim that the bullet, after going through Kennedy and Connolly, was able to bounce back from where it allegedly exited Connolly's body in the front seat and somehow wound up in the back seat, it can't be the same bullet. What Landis is telling us finally makes sense. First, it explains how a bullet got onto a gurney at Parkland. He put it there. And second, it explains why the bullet was in near pristine condition. It never broke any bones on its path through two people. This completely destroys the single bullet theory. There is no magic bullet, which means that there had to have been at least a fourth shot, which means there had to have been another shooter. And we know conclusively that Oswald could not have fired four shots in that time span.

This points directly at a conspiracy.

So then what's weird to me as a journalist is this new testimony. Like, he never mentioned this when he was questioned 60 years ago.

He was never questioned 60 years ago. Nobody ever asked. Warren Commission never interviewed any of the other agents that were in the follow up car. Now let's talk about the number of shots fired. Remember, the Warren Report said that three shots were fired. The manlicure carcano, a nonautomatic car beam, which was the alleged murder weapon used by Oswald, was tested by top marksman. And it was determined that it took 2.3 seconds from shot to shot without allowing time for reamening and repositioning at a moving target. They determined that the first shot that hit Kennedy was followed by a second shot at 1.5 seconds. Well, how was that possible when it was determined that it took 2.3 seconds from shot to shot? As they say, do the math. The single bullet, the timing of the shots, we're just getting started.

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You. Now let's take a look at some of the testimonies from the Parkland doctors who tried to save Kennedy's life.

According to the Warren report, JFK's car raced from Dealy Plaza to Parkland hospital, and it arrived at 12:35 p.m.. Everyone.

At Parkland was on high alert, getting ready for Kennedy's arrival. Among them was Dr. Malcolm Perry, a trauma room physician. He worked feverishly trying to keep the president alive. But once the president was pronounced dead later that day, he talked to the press and he described the shot to Kennedy's neck as an entrance wound.

The New York times published the transcript from that press conference. It goes reporter where was the entrance wound? Dr. Perry there was an entrance wound in the neck. Reporter which way was the bullet coming on the neck wound, madam? Dr. Perry it appeared to be coming at him. Reporter you think from the front, in the throat? Dr. Perry the wound appeared to be an entrance wound in the front of the throat. Yes, that is correct. Well, so that's pretty clear.

Yeah, one would think, but it's not the way Dr. Perry's story ends. According to information we have just received from a recently discovered notebook kept by Martin Stedman, we've learned a little more about this story about Dr. Perry.

That's Dr mantic again. Now talking about the journalist Martin Stedman. Stedman covered this story for decades.

A week after the assassination, stedman and a few colleagues went to visit Dr. Perry at his home in Dallas, and they asked him, well, Dr. Perry, what do you really believe? Do you think this was an entry wound? And he said, Absolutely, it was an entry wound. And he told them what had happened the night of the autopsy and the morning after. He said he had gotten several calls from the autopsy room, from the autopsy doctors who told him that if he didn't change his mind about the entry wound, he was probably going to lose his medical license. And so the journalist finished up by asking him, well, Dr. Perry, after all of this, what do you really think? He said it was an entry wound.

So he says again, it's an entry wound.

After a long, long paragraph of assumptions, he finally admitted to the warrant commission that it could have been a shot from the rear.

But this is the guy who repeated three times that the bullet entered from the front of the throat.

Right. Why would he change his mind? In the 1970s that's Dick Russell, a Dallas Secret Service agent named Elmer Moore, confessed that he, quote, had badgered Dr. Perry into making a flat statement that there was no entrance wound in the neck. He said he was operating under orders from Washington and the Secret Service. He said he regretted it, but that, quote, we all did everything we were told, or we'd get our heads cut off. Perry wasn't the only one that day who said that the shots that hit Kennedy were fired from the front. Statements from 21 witnesses at Parkland Hospital that day reported seeing a massive head wound in the back of Kennedy's skull. The doctors at Parkland described a big wound that reached into the posterior part of the skull on the right side. The journalist Connie Kritzberg interviewed some of those doctors at Parkland in the immediate aftermath of that day. She got testimony from one of the neurosurgeons, Dr. Kemp clerk, who also said that there was a huge wound in the right rear of the President's head. And then there's Dr. McClellan, one of the surgeons that worked to save the President's life that day.

Dr. McClellan testified to the Warren Commission that part of the cerebellum was blasted away. There was a big hole in the back of his head.

That's dr mantic.

Again, it was the size of an orange, at least, if not even a little larger. And dozens, literally dozens of witnesses have said the same thing. So the shot that killed the President came from the front. It's totally consistent with the big hole in the back of the head.

So were the doctor's testimonies just ignored by investigators and by the folks on the Warren Commission?

One of the doctors, Ron Jones, said that assassination investigators knew of reports of a second shooter, but ignored them. A Warren Commission investigator is said to have told him, quote, we have people who had testified that they saw somebody shoot the President from the front, but we don't want to interview them, and I don't want you saying anything about that, either. And who was that investigator? Who? Arlen Spector.

The creator of the single bullet theory?

The same. Now, let's dig deeper into what happened during the autopsy at the Bethesda Naval Hospital. The Dallas doctors were unanimous, if you study their treatment notes, that they wrote the day of the president's death that's Doug Horn it's that the president had a big blowout in the right rear of his head behind his ear. The right rear portion of the head. Well, the problem is that the autopsy photographs show the back of the head to be intact.

Hi, this is Giselle and Robin, and we're the host of Reasonably Shady on the Black Effect podcast network. I absolutely love our podcast. Yes, it has been so much better than I expected. Yes, because we get to share our lives with everyone. They get to learn about us. This is the podcast that you want to listen to, just to feel like you're in the living room with your girlfriends. You're driving in the car with your girlfriends. You're having that good girlfriend talk. And sometimes we say things that you want to say but you can't say out loud. We're like speaking your mind for you, but you're scared to say it, but we going to say it. We do hot topics. We talk about reasonable and shady things. So get into it. Get into it. And join us every Monday for reasonably shady. And be sure to tune into the latest season of The Real Housewives of Potomac. Subscribe to Reasonably Shady on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Grace Campbell, and on my new podcast, 28 Dates Later, I'm changing the narrative on how we find love.

Join me on a wild adventure as I go on blind dates, finding suitors on the Internet's, strangest apps, and only picking people who are the total opposite of my type. Dissecting my dates and listening in on all the cringiest moments will be my friend Roz. Every time I hear about a date, I go in and I cuddle my boyfriend. I'm like, thank God. And my friend Dan okay, the deadest.

Flirting I've ever heard in my life.

Who won't be giving me an easy ride.

Honestly, if you had said that to me on a date, I would have walked out.

And after going on 28 of these dates in two months, will I find that special someone? Or will this experiment prove that there's no good way to find love and I should just give up on dating altogether? It's time to find out. Listen to 28 Dates Later with me, Grace Campbell, on the iHeartRadio App Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Dr. Horn, if the autopsy photographs in the archives don't show a gaping wound in the back of his head, what do they show?

The autopsy photographs show the back of the head to be intact, but that's contradicted by the treatment notes of the parkland doctors and by their testimony in 1964. So the government had a problem if those photographs had made it into the official record, that would have supported the observations of the parkland doctors because the right cerebellum would have been almost totally destroyed, most of it missing. Much of the rear of the brain missing. When we look at the photographs of the back of his head at the archives, everything is totally intact.

That's dr mantic again.

It looks like the hair has just been freshly washed with hardly any blood anywhere, and yet the shirt is totally soaked with blood. How is that possible? A woman named Sandra K. Spencer processed the photos that were taken of the.

President's head during the autopsy in November 1963. She was a petty officer in charge of the White House laboratory at NPC, the Naval Photographic Center. Here she is being interviewed by the ARRB in the 1990s.

You tell me whether those photographs the.

Questioner says, can you tell me whether those photographs correspond with the photographs you developed in November of 1963? No, she says. No.

Let's start with a conjecture as to whether the photograph that you developed.

The questioner says, let's start with a conjecture as to whether the photographs that you developed and the photographs that you observe today could have been taken at different times. I would definitely say they were taken at different times, she says. I would definitely say they were taken at different times.

Of course, the actual, authentic autopsy photographs did show a big hole in the back of the head. And we have several witnesses at the autopsy who saw those photographs and their testimonies in the record today.

To be clear, what you're saying is that the photos that Sandra K. Spencer developed are not the ones that are in the National Archives.

I did a chain of custody study on the autopsy report while I was at the review board, and so the first thing I discovered is that Dr. Humes had two sets of conclusions.

That's what makes it all the more remarkable that he burned his first copy.

Sometime after the FBI agents left. Humes made this new pronouncement because somebody had called Dr. Perry at Parkland Hospital.

How do we know this?

Perry told Nurse Belle the following day. She said, you look like hell. What's wrong? And he said, Well, I didn't get much sleep last night. And she said, why? And he said, well, they had me on the phone off and on all night long from Bethesda Naval Hospital. People were trying to get me to change my mind about the fact that the President was shot in the throat from the front. They wanted me to change my mind and say that was really an exit wound in his throat. This was all happening the night of the assassination. Humes and Boswell met the next morning on Saturday to review the first draft of the autopsy report. They met at 10:00 in the morning. Humes worked on it all night at home. And it was typed. Boswell told us this under oath. Somebody that day rejected that report because what does Humes do on Sunday? He burns the first draft of the autopsy report and most of the original notes in his fireplace.

Okay, so where does this leave us? Sum it up for me.

Okay. The Warren Commission manipulated the evidence to fit their single bullet theory in order to prove that Oswald was a lone gunman who shot the President from behind. Several witnesses, many of them medical professionals, who saw Kennedy's wounds at Parkland Hospital that day, contradicted this. They said that the President's wounds were a result of shots that came from the front. The autopsy report, conducted by doctors who had very little experience with gunshot wounds, who had burned the original report, contained photographs that had no correlation to the wounds observed by the Parkland doctors or the photographer who initially took the pictures. All of this points to the shooters in locations other than just the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository. And that means whatever Lee Harvey Oswald was doing that day, he did not do it alone.

You seem convinced that the forensics lead to the conclusion that there had to be more than one shooter. So then why is the official narrative still one of a lone know, it's.

Perfect that you use that word narrative, because the evidence was going to show that Oswald was part of a narrative, a narrative that he was completely unaware of. And when you take a look at his journey into this narrative, the picture will become a lot clearer.

Next time on Who Killed JFK.

If you don't learn who Lee Harvey Oswald really was, there's no way you can understand what happened on that day.

We'll pull back the curtain on Lee Harvey Oswald.

I was under the impression that Lee was being trained for a specific operation. He was of interest to the highest counterintelligence officer in the CIA for four years before President Kennedy was killed.

Who killed JFK? Is hosted by Rob Reiner and me. Solidad O'Brien. And our executive producers are rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, matt George, jason English, David Hoffman and me. Solidad O'Brien. Our writer is David Hoffman with research by Dick Russell. Our story editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinero. Our senior producer is Julie Pinero. Our producers are Tristan Nash, Dick Russell, Michelle Goldfein and Amari Lee. Our editors are Tristan Nash, Julie Pinero, and Marcus DeLauro. Our project manager is Carol Klein. Our associate producer is Emilce Quiros. Mixing, mastering and sound design by Ben Laholier and archival audio in this episode. Thanks to the 6th Floor Museum and Dick Russell, research and fact checking by Girl Friday and Emilece Kiros, business affairs by Hennan Narea and Jonathan Furman. Our consulting producer is Roseanne Galliani, recorded in part at CDM studio and Fourth Street recording studio. Show logo by Lucy Quintanilla, production assistance by Rocco Del Prior and Grace Barron. Special thanks to Joe Honig, Rose Arse and Dan Stor. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Who killed JFK? As a production of Soledad O'Brien Productions. And Iheart podcasts.

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