The following podcast of women Talkin bout murder was recorded before my co host, Donna Montgomery, went missing. I am re listening to these episodes to search for any clues that can help find her. So please, talkin bout hers, put on your detective ears as we listen to this previously aired episode. Greed is good. At least that's what Wall street character Gordon Gekko thinks. And perhaps graphic designer Jim Reynolds would agree. But we can't ask graphic designer Jim Reynolds, because Jim Reynolds was lost at sea on his honeymoon cruise. Meanwhile, his widow, Pam, is enjoying his $2 million life insurance payment along with her new husband, a man she claims she met on that very cruise ship.

Hmm.

Perhaps it's Pam who thinks greed is good.

The movie wall Street. I don't think I've watched that. Maybe since it came.

This is women talking about murder. Episode 2991.

So Jobeth, today's murder happened on a cruise ship.

Of course it did.

I love cruises.

Of course you do. On dry land, you're going to get murdered. On the high seas, that goes up, I would say, at least 70% to 80% that you're going to be murdered.

Well, so far, so good. The thing about a cruise that's amazing is everything you need is all in one place, and it's on a boat, and you get to always see the ocean. So it's sort of like, oh, my gosh, is this the best place on earth?

You're trapped with potential murderers and rotavirus. People don't know this. And Donna, I don't want to tell tales out of school, but, you know, Donna was on one of those Covid cruise ships.

It was not too bad, because I met a lot of people, and I think we were out at sea from a good month.

You had to spoon strangers on the lido deck, and you told me you had to poop in a bag.

I did.

I mean, the one time I went on a cruise, and the only time I did was because my husband Scott, won a raffle at work. I pre printed out missing flyers, gave them to my husband. They were of my face. I went to the engine room, then I went to the bridge and talked to the captain, and I was like, please take a mental picture of my face, because you know what happens on cruise ships. People get murdered.

I got to dance with the captain on the last one I went on.

I know you and Ray had a good time. I don't mean to be such a killjoy. I'm just glad that you made it off that cruise.

Did Ray say he had a good time on that cruise. That's nice to hear.

He said he needed a vacation from his vacation, but I'm not sure that had anything to do with you. I don't think it did. So in case this is your first time listening to our show, Ray is my brother, and he's also Donna's ex boyfriend.

Well, I mean, wow.

Okay, well, she refers to him as her ex husband, but they were never technically married.

Yeah, but if he had asked me, I would have said yes, so. Okay. Okay. Carry on. Yeah, you were saying something about the cruise, by the way.

I don't know if you would notice, but the captain threw that flyer away before we got off the bridge. He did?

What if people found your missing flyers and are looking for you still?

Good? They're pre looking for me. I love that. My idea of a good vacation is to get out of bed, go to Starbucks, get a vente iced coffee with whole milk, drive to target, may or may not go in, come back home, and just be with the dogs.

So just leave the house. I hope I can see every single city and country in the whole world. I want to just check it off, check it off, check it off, check it off, and see it all.

Donna, I know you want to see every part of the world, but I just don't think hitchhiking is the way. No one hitchhikes anymore. Except for you.

I mean, what I like about it is that free? Hello, it's free. But you really do get to meet such interesting people. You know, like the only person that's going to pick you up is somebody who's. Who's an extrovert, who wants to chit chat, or else they're going to go on by, and that's their right. So you're immediately, you know, saying, hi, I like to talk. And they're saying, hi, I like to talk and get on in and stuff. And you get the lay of the land. You know, the truck drivers, it's just amazing their stories. I love talking to them. I love hearing it. And I'll just go cross country that way.

Stop hitchhiking.

Jo Beth. Tell me about this cruise ship murder.

Pam Mason and Jim Reynolds seemed like any typical happy, newly engaged couple planning their wedding in the suburbs of Chicago. Jim was a very successful graphic designer, and Pam was a grant writer. So someone who knew about getting money.

Ooh, that sounds like something.

Pam and Jim fell in love at the height of the office tv show. So everyone loved that. They were also Pam and Jim.

I bet they got a lot of coffee mugs with that it took a turn, though.

Bear with us here.

Oh, no.

Yeah. As prepped for their marriage, they did all the typical things a type a couple might do. Register for gifts, hire a wedding band. More on this later. And take out life insurance policies. Now, donna, life insurance policies are very interesting when it comes to true crime, because as sure as somebody takes out a life insurance policy on someone, there's almost 100% chance that person is about to be murdered.

Right.

That's why with Scott and I's life insurance policy, if he dies, I get all the money. If I die, he gets nothing because that means he killed me.

Oh.

And I don't want that. So if I die, the dogs get all the money, and he knows this. I mean, that's insulting, right? You're the sweetest man in the world, Scott, but, okay, men, ultimately, deep in their core, are murderers.

I have no insurance on anything. I really don't understand the insurance business whatsoever. Not never taken out a policy on anything. Is that something I'm supposed to do?

Well, yes. Yes, you should do it.

Isn't it fear based, though? Isn't it all like, oh, there's gonna be a flood. Oh, there's gonna be an earthquake. And, you know, those things just don't happen.

Donna, life is a living nightmare. And you gotta take care of yourself and your loved ones. I mean, Donna, it's amazing you're still alive. And by the way, you're sitting on a pile of money. The fact that you don't have life insurance, you haven't invested anything.

Well, right. I don't really touch that money, you know, so. And that's. You know, it's because of the lawsuit, of course. The Dairy Queen lawsuit, which we've talked to. I think we did it in episode 43, just in case, you know. But back in the day, this is at the same time that McDonald's had just paid out the woman who hurt herself on the hot coffee. And a similar kind of thing happened to me over at Dairy Queen, where I had a blizzard and I got a very severe brain freeze.

Oh, it was awful. Yeah.

Yeah, it really froze.

I mean, it was a literal. It was a medical brain freeze freeze. The doctors. Yes, your brain had actual frost on it. People talk about getting burned. No one talks about getting too cold. I mean, that lady's. The hot coffee lawsuit. That lady's vagina burned off. She had to have skin grafts. And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it had to be from another girl's vagina.

You know, they gave me a million dollars. When my brain thawed, I was able to kind of see what happened, that I was a victim there.

I say this with love, but you're a walking victim. You're a victim waiting to happen, let's put it that way. And so for you to stand up for yourself, I thought was quite brave and quite remarkable. And I wish you would do it more often.

Thank you.

You know, you have a lot of money, so.

And I've kind of put it aside. And, you know, that was at the time where somebody said, put it in stocks, and I didn't understand, and I was like, oh, pick a thing. Oh, there's apple. You know, and it's like, oh, that's cute. I like an apple. Apple a day. And then that, apparently, that's just gone up and up and up and up and. Scott, will you print out this or help me with this insurance form on the Google thing? I have something up. I can start filling it out if it makes you happy.

I actually am excited to help you with this, but don't talk about this, okay? Don't talk about your money or the insurance policy.

So, like, I have to name a beneficiary. So this is like, who would get the money? But it's like, if Ray and I had gotten married, I would name Ray. And so with that logic, I can name. I'll name Ray. I'll name Ray.

You and Ray are not married. I think he would deny it.

Well, then guess what I'm going to do. Guess what I'm filling out right now. Joe. Beth Henderson is my beneficiary and gets all my money if anything happens.

Donna, so sweet. So dumb.

What does this mean? What is your relationship to heart attacks? It's a messy relationship. It's a.

No. It means, do you have a heart condition?

Oh, no. Okay.

Is there a box for gullible? As the day is long, I'm looking. I'm looking most likely to be murdered.

What are your hobbies? Oh, that's nice.

Hobbies.

So I'm gonna say night jogging. Oh, that's number one. I love it so much.

I hate it.

Is hitchhiking a hobby or just a way of life, or. I'll put it down. Hitchhiking.

Oh, my God. You are not going to get this insurance policy.

Okay.

I would be sad if you died, Donna, but I gotta say, I would not be surprised. But I implore you to please put your family as the beneficiaries.

This is a private form.

Okay? So today we're talking about the alaskan cruise murder, and whether Pam had anything to do with her husband Jim going overboard. But before we get to the high seas, let's get our footing back on dry land. Jim and Pam got married, and friends and family all described it as beautiful and maybe just a little boring, just like Pam and Jim. But nothing seemed out of the ordinary or suspicious. Pams. Bridesmaids said she was very busy and a little emotional and distracted up until her wedding, but it all seemed like typical bride vibes.

Oh, okay.

Until they go on their honeymoon, a cruise to Alaska, and tragically, Jim never makes it home.

Chills. I just got chills.

Mm hmm. Me too. Pam said her husband was a little clumsy and he was feeling seasick on the cruise, so she thinks maybe he stumbled and fell overboard. And everyone was shocked and saddened by this tragic accident. Pam comes back home a widow and collects Jim's $2 million life insurance money.

See, I had a feeling with the life insurance, that's something. That is something.

Then a year later, she marries a new man, Jameson Humphries.

Wait, what?

Just a year later? One year later. Yep. You know where this is going, Donna. She says she met Jamison Humphries on that very honeymoon cruise ship. He was in the cruise ship band. At this point, friends and family are surprised, but not really suspicious. They think this is fast, but after all, Pam is in mourning, so they all kind of shrug it off.

I see what they're saying. Okay. All right. I'm on board.

Yeah. I don't know why the family would think she's in mourning when she's hooking up with someone else so quickly. But to each his own. That is, until this couple went on a podcast called say, moore with doctor Sheila for couples therapy. And listeners thought their story seemed very suspicious. Listeners took to the Internet, and a police investigation was opened. And here on women talking about murder, we always go right to the source. So today we have renowned therapist and podcast host Doctor Sheila, who had this very suspicious session with suspected murderers Pam and Jamison.

Hello.

Hello.

Hi, Doctor Sheila.

Wow. Can I just say, first of all, congratulations on your success. I've really been tracking it, and your show is just doing gangbusters. Good for you.

And I've heard your show say more with Doctor Sheila.

I should just quickly point out, you must say doctor in the form of a question, or else we get in trouble, I'm told.

Hmm.

Doctor Sheila.

Thank you.

You're welcome. I think you would find Donna to be quite the subject. I mean, she's got a lot of issues.

What I think is so interesting about your podcast is how popular it is and how it really doesn't try to fix anything, whereas mine is much more interested in a restorative process. And it's always confusing to me as why more people aren't responding to that. But yes, I would love to have either one of you on my podcast say more, which is also on while yours is on. So there's no reason to not listen to two podcasts by women.

Snap. Snap. People certainly did respond to your podcast when you had this couple on, and it sounds like Pam and Jamison came on your podcast, and then the Internet just went nuts as it does, because they all kind of freaked out, right? And said, wait, I think a murder happened. I think a murder happened. Tell us about that.

Well, I have to be very honest. As soon as my clients leave the room, I forget what we all talked about. So when I listened back to it again, I thought maybe something suspicious had happened. But it's not my job to be a detective when it comes to crime. It's my job to be a detective when it comes to the heart.

Oh, that's so nice.

I'm not sure I believe that you forget things immediately when you leave, but I understand that you have to say that to protect yourself in case someone does get murdered. I'm glad that murder gave your show a little bit of a boost.

Well, what I'm picking up on from you, Jobeth, and can I just say, I absolutely love it because it reminds me of a lot of women I work with. Some of who can be really, really difficult, is a certain suspicion I'm really here, put on this earth by some kind of angel to help transform people and better their lives. Because in many ways, I am an angel myself. And that is, I don't. I didn't write that. Someone wrote that about me. And if you listen to my podcast, or if any of your listeners do, I think they'll pick up on that, too. And so I forget your question, but, yeah, I agree.

Well, Doctor Sheila, I know you're interested in getting more listeners, which is probably the reason you wanted to come onto our show. So my advice to you, I think if you were to pivot into getting into the mind of a murderer, you definitely would pick up some more listeners.

You know, Jobeth, as I have a few extra minutes here while they take my gel nail polish off, I was wondering why you think women specifically are so fascinated with true crime.

Well, I guess the same way you, doctor, are fascinated by relationships that go sideways.

What is sideways?

A movie. There was a movie.

I do love that movie.

I love Paul Giamatti.

Everyone knows how much I love Paul Giamatti.

Monolog about the pinot.

Absolutely beautiful.

Well, should we listen to some clips from your show here and.

Oh, I would absolutely love that. I know we're talking about something very bad that happened, so I don't want to get excited. It's very sad someone was killed, but it's very exciting that people are talking about my show. Jobeth, you're giving a thumbs down on the zoom.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know my camera was on.

So it's been wonderful to talk to you both. And I think I'm being told now I have to get under, put these paws under some hot lights.

Well, they look gorgeous.

Pam and Jamison claim to have met on the cruise ship, but remember how we said we'd get back to them hiring a wedding band?

Yes.

Well, we have now discovered that Jamison and Pam and Jim actually met in Chicago when Jim and Pam were seeing local bands to pick out their wedding band. They saw Jameson's band play one night. They didn't hire that band for their wedding, but investigators have found that they are, in fact, lying about meeting on the cruise ship.

Ooh.

So, Scott, can you play the clip from, say more with Doctor Sheila? This is Pam and Jameson talking about Pam and Jim's honeymoon cruise. And just listen as these two murderers lie through their teeth.

So where did you two meet?

I'll be honest. When I met Pam, she was married and did not seem to have much heat with her husband at all.

We had a very Cary Grant, you know, meet on a cruise ship type of back and forth.

So you met on a cruise ship?

Sort of.

She was on her honeymoon, and my band was playing on a cruise ship.

We've hit something very interesting here, because what I'm hearing, if I'm correct, is that you were on your honeymoon. 12 hours later, your new husband died from went missing.

He's never been. We don't know. Honest to God. Honest to God. He could be living somewhere right now.

I understand that, but if you have nothing to hide, talk to me.

I don't have anything to hide.

Do you? I don't know.

Do you? They found a bunch of human tissue on those king crab legs.

Oh, that seems like a big clue, am I right?

Well, Donna, you would be right, normally. But on cruise ships, literally every morsel of food on every buffet, every late night cheeseburger is covered in human tissue.

No.

Yeah, yeah. Google it. The melon balls chock a block with human tissue. And, in fact, human tissue. That's right, Donna. And in fact, if you don't find human tissue on a morsel of food on a cruise ship, then that's even a thousand times more suspicious because that means somebody's wiped it down with something. I cannot believe you're eating a blizzard right now. That's wild.

No, it's kind of room temp. Now I've learned my lesson.

Hmm.

Okay, so, Jo Beth, we have assumed today with somebody who witnessed a body being dumped overboard on that very cruise ship.

Yes. Yes, Donna. Cruise ship comedian Pep Hampson.

Hi, Pep. Hi.

How are you?

I'm doing so great. How are you?

There is Pep in this step.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah, Donna. But murder is no laughing matter, right? Pep? I know you've probably worked hard to deal with the trauma of seeing a blurry person murder another blurry person. And I bet you've worked it out through comedy. I loved you on America's Next Top comedian, by the way. I remember 1993. But can you just take us back to that night and let us know exactly what you saw on the cruise ship?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. Before I do, I just want to say that it's all hands on deck, really, when you're first on a cruise. The circuit, by the way, cruise ship circuit is a gas. It's brutal because, you know, people are coming with a lot of baggage.

Oh, yes.

I don't know what I heard. I don't know what I saw. I try to remember where we were docked. Do you know where we were docked?

No, I don't think. I mean, I could look it up for you. Ooh, shoot. Joe Beth, do we.

Do you know where we were docked?

Joabeth. Can we google.

Oh, my God.

Juno.

Donna, he's saying Juno. Like, Juneau, Alaska.

I don't know.

I think I got a little bit too much sea salt in my brain.

Oh, my God, Juno.

Okay, Pep, well, thanks so much for your time. And tell us. Cause we're fans. Where can we catch you next?

I'm working on a ranch doing the ranch circuit, which is great. And I'll be doing that till the cows come home.

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so, Jo Beth, here we have, you know, somebody who saw a body get dumped. We know the lying about, you know, they didn't really meet on the cruise ship.

Like, I don't.

What happened?

The evidence of lying about meeting on the cruise combined with the eyewitness testimony of the dumping of the body, plus the timing of the life insurance policy, plus lyrics to a song he wrote a year after the cruise called I would kill to be with you.

That is suspicious.

It's even more suspicious because on the original pressing, it says, I would kill to be with you, parentheses Pam.

When did they meet?

Jameson and Pam met that night. She saw his band in Chicago. One of his bandmates corroborated this saying, oh, yeah, I saw them fucking in the bathroom that night.

So when she was shopping for a wedding band with her fiance.

Yes, with Jim, she fucked Jameson in.

The bathroom, but they said they met on the cruise ship.

That's what murderers do. They lie. They lie.

I don't like that.

Yeah. Pam and Jamison started having an affair in Chicago, but he was leaving for a cruise ship gig that would be gone for a year. And that was just too long for Pam to be without her lover. So that's when the plan was hatched. Pam not only convinced Jim to get a life insurance policy, but also to go on that very cruise for their honeymoon and to have Jameson, her lover, kill her husband while on the cruise. Grant writers can be very persuasive. So even though a woman thought of it all, it was still yet another murder by a man.

Oh, my gosh.

Donna. Donna. God. Okay, takeaways from today. Donna, tell me what you learned from this case.

I mean, I think what I learned is that I am gonna watch sideways again.

Okay, think about all the stuff we talked about on this episode, and tell me, maybe just really think about what the crux of the episode was and tell me what you learned.

Life insurance policies are hard to fill out.

Okay.

This is Jo Beth, and this is Donna.

As always, never enter a basement. Don't cross state lines alone. Don't ever load something into the backseat of your car. Don't take your child to a playground. Don't let the gas guy in your house. Don't go jogging. Don't have affairs. And from today's case, never go on a cruise. Love you all. Stay indoors, my babies.

This improvised episode of women talking about murder is a presentation of odyssey and paperkite productions. It's produced by Best Case Studios. The cast includes Liz Kakowski and Emily Spivey, with Scott Philbrook, Amy Poehler and Jason Schwartzman. Amy Poehler and Liz Kakowski are writers and executive producers for Paper Kite. Alice Stanley Junior is a writer producer for Best Case Studios. Adam Pincus is executive producer, Suzanne Meyer, supervising producer, Hanna Lebowitz, Lockhart, producer Nisha Venkat, associate producer. Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weiss Berman and Leah Reese. Dennis Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Jordan Cohn, Melissa Wester, Kurt Courtney and Hilary Schuff, and for paper kite, Sam Green. This episode was edited and mixed by Sarah Voorhees. Wendell follow and listen to women talking about murder now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.