The following podcast of Women Talking About murder was recorded before my co-host, Donna Montgomery, went missing. I am relistening to these episodes to search for any clues that can help find her. So please, Talking Bounders, put on your detective ears as we listen to this previously aired episode. It was Christmas morning in 1972, and the folks in Woodbridge, Virginia were delighted by what was under the tree. A big wheel for Sean, an easy bake oven for Kimberly, a new pair of hip huggers for Dawn, a talky Christie doll for Chrissy. All were feeling festive and groovy as 16-year-old Robbie Cain opened up a new pair of extremely short running shorts. After all, he was the track star hoping for a full ride to college. Meanwhile, over at his best friend Doug Bolter's house, another present was unwrapped, a present that lead to the murder of Robbie Cain, a Ouija board.

Oh, my gosh, the Ouija board. I remember that from a sleepover that I think I had.

This is Women Talking About murder, episode 2,900. '92.

Wait, Jo Beth, we're talking about the '70s today?

We are going back, Donna, back 50 years. I've I mean, 40, 50 years into the 1970s. Oh my gosh.

I was born in the '70s, so I like that decade.

Me too. I had my Grease album. Remember the musical Grease?

Tell me more Tell me more.

Yes, that's the song from it. It's one of the songs. I would just sit inside morning till night, look at the liner notes of that album. Then, of course, I pretended that I put me and my stuffed animals in a force field because I was worried about getting attacked or abducted. '70s was the time of kidnapping. There was a storyline on all my children where a kid got kidnapped, and it was based on reality.

I have- Yeah, and see, I think '70s, I'm like, oh, hula hoop and roller skates and the fun of, oh, we're going from the hippies to disco. How How fun is that? So just a little different.

Yeah. I remember from the '70s, the dating game.

I love the dating game. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. There was a serial killer on there. Did you know that?

No.

Ocala. And he almost went out on a date with a lady.

Oh, we need to cover that.

His thing was in the 1970s to choke girls out and then revive them just enough, choke them some more. But yeah, he was on The Dating Game, one of my favorite shows from the '70s.

I mean, I love A Blind Date, as you know. I have one next week. I'm so excited. I have no idea who it's with. I'm on those apps, and then I specifically said, I like a blind date. I don't want to know anything about this person. And I just say, here's what I'm wearing and here's where I'll be. And it's so fun.

So that's what that show was. Yes, but Donna, that's not fun. I don't know what sites you're on. Go to church, meet somebody there at your job, maybe. There's lots of nice single minute.

This is my job.

Donna, you always meet late at night? What are these? It's almost like- Well, that's part of this app is specific to nighttime meetups where you don't know anything about the person.

But that's just that specific one called Nightdating, which is weird because it's all dating night, but this one's called Night Dating.

Okay. It was a very dangerous time. And women were getting murdered almost three, four, five times as often. And men were, too, and little boys.

So it was more equal back then?

I see what you're getting at because this is about a boy that was murdered. But women were and always will be 10 to 15 times more likely to be murdered than men.

And that's what the women in the '70s, remember women in the '70s fought for equality?

Right. I mean, they don't want murder equality, certainly, Donna. You know what I mean? But they were, I mean, they were burning their bras in the '60s. I mean, I don't know if that was the best thing to do because when I go out, I always wear a bra. You don't want to attract attract unwanted attention. But my memories from the '70s was just kids running wild. No one was looking after us. It's amazing we're still alive. No one knew where you were. No one cared, certainly in my case, no one cared.

You had your big brother. I think he cared, Ray.

Debatable, yeah. Ray was out a lot. He had this... Remember the Camaro with the eagle on it. Was it a Camaro? Firebird. Oh, the Firebird with the eagle on it smoking the bandit style. He had that, and he was out carousing.

Does he still have that car? Is he still driving that? And where is he driving it? Where is he?

You know he's in Austin. But we're not going to talk about Ray. If we could just go just one an hour or even just get through this podcast.

I was thinking, too, in the intro, you're talking about Christmas morning, right? Opening up the presents, and you really set the scene. And I was thinking, what are you doing for Christmas? And are you getting together with family?

To answer your question, I am getting together with family. I will not say whether Ray is involved. Okay? If you listen to this podcast, you do know that Ray and Donna were in a relationship for quite a long time.

I consider him my ex-husband, even though we were never married. But if he would have asked me, I would have said yes.

Would have said yes.

But I was thinking about maybe going, and this is random, I was thinking from my holiday plans, I might go to Austin to check out if it's staying weird.

If by weird, you mean dangerous? Yes, it is. And you need to remember that the law might not allow you to go to Austin to be anywhere within 500 yards of Ray.

And I was thinking if we were still living in the '70s and I went to Austin, for example, you wouldn't know if I went because I wouldn't have GPS, cell phone, those things. And isn't in a way the past, maybe we shouldn't be so dependent on our cell phones anymore. More. Maybe we should live like the '70s and just turn it all off and just go out into the wild, as you say.

I'm just telling you, Donna, this podcast is not about you and Ray, honey. It's women talking about murder.

Not women talk about Ray.

Yes, that's right. All right, so let's Let's get into the case. Doug Bolter and Robbie Cain were best friends, both on the track team. Juniors in high school, they were hoping to get track scholarships and attend the same college as roommates.

I like runners. We should remember, they're both runners.

Right, right. Robbie was a well-liked kid. To get a sense of what kid he was, let's take a look at his yearbook.

The social media of the time.

Okay, so I have here, Robbie and Doug's yearbook, circa 1972.

Oh, my gosh. I'm shaking holding it. I'm just shaking. It's so exciting. It's so creepy and exciting.

And it's also like a little time machine, going back in time and looking at this yearbook and catching Robbie, pre-murder, obviously.

Oh, my God. I dropped it. Sorry, I just dropped it. I really was shaking and I dropped it.

I know. Oh, Oh, my God. Just please be careful because that took me quite a few sleepless nights to find that yearbook.

I got it back.

And if you're going to eat cream of tomato soup, I'd appreciate it if you would just wait till after we go through.

Don't use the earbook as the table for it.

Right. Exactly.

I'm going to put it over here for now. Oh, my gosh. It's so great to see. Look how old. I mean, look at how many people have mustaches in this. Unbelievable. There's so many pictures of people just grabbing another person's ass throughout. But, but, but, just buts and hands on buts.

Buts, buts. If there wasn't an oversize comb in a back pocket, it was someone else's hand. It was the decade of grab ass. And Very inappropriate. Look who won best couple. This is the auto shop teacher and a senior, a girl.

Well, yeah, it just says Karen and Mr. Jensen, and they won best couple. Cool.

Only in the '70s.

So I have the superlative... Okay, I see now Robbie and Doug, and they were nominated best friends.

Oh, that's nice. That's nice. I mean, they do have their arms around each other, but you can see that Doug has murder in his eyes. There's a jealousy. There's a rage.

Okay, I'm interested in this. Jennie got biggest boobs and Heather got nicest boobs. Do you know what I I got in high school for the superlatives? And I loved that I was nominated for something and won something. It made me feel so good. I got most gullible. Isn't that nice?

Is it nice?

I don't know. Yes. And you know what was so funny is they actually told me that I had one most likely to be an astronaut. And so for the picture, I am wearing a spacesuit.

Oh, my God. Well, that's funny. I got most outgoing.

You did? I love that.

Donna, no, I I didn't. I never left the house. I went to school and went straight home to watch General Hospital, and that's what I did.

Oh, my God. I just flipped to the page. I flipped to the page. I am seeing where Doug wrote to Robbie. Doug wrote to Robbie here. So this could be like a major, major clue.

Yes. What does it say?

Lylas, Doug.

Love you like a sister. Donna, here's something I really dug into. Based on my research, here are the most popular names from the 1970s: Sean, Chad, Todd, Keith, Gary, Craig, Greg, Troy, Brent, Rodney, Kyle, Eric, Carl, Danny, and Willy, Amy, Jenny, Melissa, Cynthia, Heather, Kimberly, Michelle, Stephanie, Kelly, Julie, Sarah, Laura, Tammy, Tracy, Karen, Carla, Dawn, Susan, Wendy, and finally, Holly. Wow. A lot of Julie's, Kelly's, Tammies, and Holly's, maybe even a melody, they were murdered.

And your Craigs and Gregs are the killers.

Doug started to change that year after Christmas. He got more into smoking pot. Robbie liked alcohol, but not drugs. And Doug started experimenting more with psychedelics. One night when they were partying, they broke out the Ouija board and started to mess around with it.

Yikes.

And Doug got hooked. He wanted to play with it all the time. They were contacting a spirit named Wragg Zou. Robbie was concerned his best friend was not focused on track, and the spring season was super important. Apparently, he wanted to talk to him about it, but talking to one another was hard in the '70s. No cell phones, no social media. You had to call a landline or find someone in person.

Oh, my gosh. Do you remember that? Yeah, you couldn't just text. You had to just show up. You had to find somebody. You had to talk to parents back then. You had to be okay with talking to somebody's mom and be good at it.

That's right.

That skill has gotten lost, I think.

Their track team made it to States, and college scouts were going to be there.

Oh, no.

Donna, we're almost there. Almost there. This was their big chance. But Robbie never made it to States, and Doug won the race and scored a scholarship. Robbie was reported missing days later. Again, it was the 1970s. It took time to realize someone wasn't around.

You had to go to the police station and say, I haven't seen my friend. Oh, can you imagine?

Yes, Donna, you had to ride your big wheel or your bike or your skateboard to the police station.

And you don't have GPS to tell you how to get there, so you have to look at a map. That's another skill I think that has gone away. Can kids read a map? I love a map. Okay. You know what I like doing is just picking a spot on a map and going, I'm going there tonight.

In the middle of the night to meet one of your dates. His body was found in Doug's basement, bludgeoned to death by a Pet Rock. Blood and brains all over the shag carpet. Doug's fingerprints all over the Pet Rock.

Oh, do we know the Pet Rock's name? Because that might be a clue.

Doug claimed innocence. His defense, he was possessed by a Ouija board spirit, which takes us up to the most famous part of this case, the courtroom and the Ouija Ouija Board defense. So, Scott, can you play the clip? This is actual audio from the courtroom where Doug's defense attorney calls the Ouija Board spirit to the stand. Take a listen.

Doug Bolter. You are a fine, upstanding young man. You are a track star, and I'm so sorry you have to be here today to discuss the murder of your best friend, Robbie. Doug, could you identify the board that was placed there right in front of you?

Yes, this is the board right here, the Ouija board that we would use from time to time.

Could you contact the spirit? Yes.

Okay. Fragjao, are you there? Fragjao, are you there? Can you hear me? It's Doug.

Let the record show that Doug's eyes have rolled into the back of his head, that he is now frothing at the mouth. Who am I speaking to now?

Fragjao.

And for the record, could you spell that?

V-r-a-g-o-r-z-a-o. Frack-sjau.

Really? That's not how I would have spelled that. Okay. Do you remember being contacted on the day of March 15th, 1973 by Doug and Robbie.

Yes, I remember being contacted. It was one of the best days of my life. I had a wonderful breakfast that morning.

Really? What did you have?

I had the tonsils of frogs, and I ate a princess, and that was it. It was a light breakfast.

Had Doug and Robbie contacted you before?

Yes, they had reached out from time to time. I always liked hearing from them. They were very nice young men. Anybody who takes an interest in the underworld is all right by me.

But you wanted to do more than just talk to them. You wanted to possess Doug and murder Robbie.

No, I didn't. Robbie was just the best. You could sit down and have a conversation with him and hours would pass and you would think that it was but a few minutes.

And you envied him for that?

Yes, of course I did.

Could the bailiff please bring in Exhibit A12? Vrags out, can you identify this rock sitting there in front of you?

Looks like just an ordinary rock.

A pet rock?

Yes, a pet rock.

Vragsau, you've touched this rock before through the hands of Doug, have you not?

I was lonely and I wanted to see what it felt like, but I would never use a pet rock to do anything other than-Let me remind you, Vragsau, that you are under oath.

You are under oath, sir. Actually, your honor, I don't believe Vragsau is under oath. Doug, Doug was under oath. Wragzow, could you touch this Bible here? It's a simple Bible. Let the record show that Doug-I'm touching it. Sorry, Wragzow's hand is I'm joking. You killed Robbie, didn't you?

I did not.

You killed him. You killed him with that rock.

No. No.

Okay, yes, I did.

I killed him. I killed him. I wanted Doug to do so well in track. Doug's always been such a wonderful guy, but he needed a break. He needed a break, and Robbie had been training so hard, hydrating so well, doing the proper leg stretches, and Doug just didn't have what it took. And States were coming up, and Doug I just needed this. Doug needed to win, and Robbie needed to die.

Thank you for your testimony, Vragza.

Hey, you're welcome. Is that all you need for me?

No, that's it. You can go back to Doug now. Okay.

Vrag Zau did it.

That was the worst acting, Donna. Doug killed Robbie Cain. It's a bogus defense, and that's what it is, the Ouija board defense.

Through Vrag Zau. That's what I'm saying. We just heard it, though. And what's extra creepy is that they didn't have audio in the '70s, right? So it's even creepier that we have audio because the '70s didn't have that technology.

We've been over this. They did have audio. You're thinking of the internet. Internet is different than audio, right? So maybe write that down. Okay. Okay. But all that being said, Donna, the jury agreed with you on this. They found Doug not guilty of the murder and agreed that it was indeed a demon, Ragzao, who murdered Robbie Cain.

Yes. Case closed.

And where is Doug today? Well, he took his track knowledge all the way to the bank by inventing Nipple and Thigh Cream, that men who runners put on their nipples and thighs to keep from chafing. Sounds simple, but it made him a millionaire many times over. And it just goes hand in hand with my favorite saying, which is in the United States of America, you murder someone, you become a billionaire.

I'm doing the math of being like, Okay, so how much older is he than me? And it's not that big of a difference, if we were to date now.

Okay, let's say he isn't a murderer. He's possessed by a demon. That's not a red flag for you?

That's a good point.

What did we learn about Doug?

I guess what I learned is that I shouldn't try and track down Doug Bolter and see if he's single.

Good takeaway. I would give that takeaway an A plus. An A plus.

What are your takeaways, Jo Beth?

Best friends can so quickly become your worst enemy. This is Jo Beth.

And Donna.

And as always, do not ever enter a basement. Don't cross state lines. Don't let the gas guy in your house. Don't go jogging ever. Don't have affairs. Don't go on a cruise. That's a biggie. And from today's case, don't do the same sport as your best friend. Love you all. Stay indoors, my babies.

This improvised episode of Women Talking About murder is a presentation of Odyssey and Paperkite Productions. It's produced by Best Case Studios. The cast includes Liz Kakowski and Emily Spivey. With Scott Philbrook, Will Forte, and Craig Kakowski. Amy Poehler and Liz Kakowski are writers and executive producers for Paper Kite. Alice Stanley Jr. Is a writer-producer. For Best Case Studios, Adam Pinkis is executive producer, Suzanne Meyer, Supervising producer, Hannah Leibowitz-Locard, producer, Nisha Vencat, Associate producer. Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weis-Burman and Leah Reece Dennis. Special thanks to the team at Odecy, Jordan Cohn, Melissa Wester, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Chef. And for Paper Kite, Sam Green. This episode was edited and mixed by Sarah Voorheys-Wendell. Follow and listen to Women Talking About murder, now on the Odecy app or wherever you get your podcasts.