Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather. I'm joined by Monica Poust. Hi. That's your French name.

I want to be French.

People don't know if they should call you Poust or Poust. Monica Poust? Is it Monica Poust or Monica Poust?

I'll be very French about it, and I'll be very snobby.

You won't answer, right?

You'll just go like, we like it, though.

We love the French, though.

I love the French. The hater gods. I know. That's why we love them. Yeah.

It's so charming that they hate us. Today, we have a mega star on Camila Cabello. This was a party so delightful. Camila loves Armchair Expert.

Oh, so flattering.

Oh, it makes it so much more fun interviewing people who know all the background inside jokes and everything. Yes. Camila is a Grammy nominated singer and songwriter. Her albums include Camila, Romance, Familia, and her new album, CXOXO, is out June 28th, but people will already be partying to I Love It, I Love It, I Love It, I Love It, I Love It, I Love It, I Love It, and people might have heard from Fact Check.

Our Fact Check. Yes, we did an Easter egg. Yeah.

My daughters have, for whatever reason, verbade me to listen to that song. That cutoff, apparently in their eyes, is somewhere before '49. What would I say that? North of? South of?

I think South of.

I think you're going south, right? You're going down.

Oh, this is like the down Yeah, it's a hill-up-hill thing.

So I'm going to say they've decided you have to be north of '49. I don't know what that actual cutoff is, but for them, I was too old to love, I love it, I love it.

Do you think maybe they had a make-out to the song? And so the fact that you're singing it is just too much.

Grossing them out. I don't think so, but that could happen in a few years. Yeah, it's coming. Oh, gross. This is my make-out song with my...

My dad's singing it.

I know that I'm realizing my boyfriend looks like my dad. Gross. Why do we do this? Please enjoy our new friend Camila Caballo. He's an armchair expert.

He's an armchair expert. Hi.

Please excuse my four-minute party night.

Oh my God, no, don't worry.

Hi. Hi there, welcome.

It's so nice to meet you guys. I am such a huge fan of you. No way.

So nice.

Can I tell you?

Not possible.

My mom was like, Are you excited? I tell Liz all the time.

Yes, I can believe you because Liz, they're friends. You guys are?

Yes. But you didn't bring your mom to this. You brought her to call her Daddy.

Okay.

Well, I'm sure that's our fault. I'm sure we said no one should-Oh, yeah, you guys were like, Mom, beat it. Moms can make vulnerable conversations difficult.

To be honest, and I'm not just saying this, not my mom. My mom is very cool.

I have the same one. Nice. I would not want my mom in here.

I wouldn't want my dad to hear most things I talk about. But my mom is okay. Guys, you have no...

When I tell you-Tell us. We love hearing it. Say more.

I know the history of the chair and that you used to sweat in the other one.

Still sweat in this one.

But you can't see it.

Maybe you'll tell us something about us we don't even know about ourselves. Oh, my God.

I can't wait. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I only know from what I've heard on the What do you hold?

Because you were holding something in the other interview I just watched of you. I thought it was a vape, but it seems to be a lip moisturizer.

Yeah, it's just some aquaphore. I think I just like holding things. If you saw my call Her Daddy one, that was my first interview that I've done in so long. I was so fucking nervous. You were? Yeah. For this one, I'm so excited because I know the best friend's name. Aaron Weekly. He's here. He's here. He's here. Right. I know all about it.

First of all, you're so stunning. It's overwhelming.

Oh, my gosh. You are. Why didn't expect you to be so jacked?

Wait, can we stop and pause? We have to stop and pause. Because Dax says that no women notice that, and you just proved me 100% correct.

If you ever say it again- No, I'm sure women notice that, but I'm saying it like, you know how bros will be like, Bro, you're so Jack. I'm saying it in a bro way. Also, you think there's a safety in the fact that I'm 60 years older than you? 100%. I'm literally saying that to you as a object, like I'm throwing out.

But that's what I'm saying, and not even in a sexual way or a romantic way. He just says women don't notice it, and they obviously do. I say they do, and he's just never wanting to hear it.

I think also because I listen to the podcast so much, you know how you put a face or a physicality to a voice? And then when I met you guys, I was like, Whoa, this is the real thing. You know what I mean?

Yeah, 3D. Totally.

Because features get really blurry on pictures.

I don't feel very photogenic.

I used to be when I was one.

When you were a baby. But then- Most photogenic baby of all time.

Super cute.

How cute is that baby?

Really so cute. I felt like such a creep because I recognized that it was baby you instantly. I was like, Is that I feel like I'm literally President of the fan club. Actually, you know what? I'm not going to say it because it's going to sound like I'm fishing. I was going to say, I actually don't feel like I'm that photogenic either. Oh, okay.

You're afraid people are going to be like, Get over yourself. You're fucking beautiful. Look, all things are true.

I know one side of my face looks fucking crazy on pictures. There's one side of my face where I literally look like a different person, and one side of my face where I'm like, wow, I look like a supermodel.

Same. I'm curious because it pairs up- Which one?

Oh, that's the right one. Oh, good.

Thank you. Okay, so Kristen and I are made in heaven because she has that side and I have that side. When we stand next to each other, it's always the correct side. It's perfect. You and I could be bros. I would always have to stand on your right. If we were looking out that way, I would always be on your right. You'd be on my left and we'd be golden.

Wait, so you think- Like stand up.

We have the same- Because this is my good side. That's your good side, right?

No, that's good. Oh, wow. How cute.

But the hard part is when it was the other way and we have to do the prom picture. Yeah. Because we have the same side, which happens, and you get creative. Or you just embrace the bad side, and you're like, I promise you, I'm cuter than this. This is me.

Okay, now, super self-indulgent, but I feel like it'll be informative. When did you start listening? And who turned you onto it? Because I want to say you were dating Sean when we interviewed him.

Yes, I was. Because I remember we were both such huge fans of the show, and he was so nervous to be on the show. I was like, I don't feel like I was even ready to be on the show until this point in my life. I would just have been just too excited. But I think I've been a pretty long time.

Was there a guest that got you to check it out?

For some reason, the David Sedaris episodes are really... Because you guys have four with him.

Yeah, he's a- Return.

Yeah, David Sedaris returns. But I can't remember. I listen to a lot of the actors that are on the show.

And David Sedaris. Okay, now, why were you nervous to be on Call Her Daddy? Just because it had been a long time since you were interviewed?

Yeah, it had been a long time, and I was like, Fuck, anything that I haven't talked about, it's all going to come up in this one interview. Yeah.

Did anything naughty come up that you were like, Oh.

Yeah, but I feel like I was okay. I knew the Sean stuff was going to come out. I knew the group stuff was going to... I love that I'm just bullet pointed. This means I've really overcome my fear. Yeah, that's right. Bullet pointing all the things that I was trying to dodge for two years.

Sheet sheet for me.

Yeah, exactly. I just had forgotten how to be public for a bit. What were you doing? I was writing and I was working, but I had just stopped going in interviews. I had just stopped being a public-facing personality.

It was a conscious decision, right?

Yeah, it was a conscious I think I just needed to do it for my mental health. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, when I'm talking about it with my therapist and stuff, it's really healthy to be who you are out loud.

And who cares.

And who fucking cares. Fuck you guys. I'm just kidding. Suck it, motherfuckers.

I'm here. The thing that I... We just had a guest on that I was bonding with over. Tiffany Hadish. It'll be out by then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the thing she and I both had, the feels that maybe you have a touch of is it's a power thing for me. It's a control thing. I'm not going to let you shame me. So I'm going to be right out I'm just going to go like, Yeah, here it is. I'm not ashamed of it.

That is the power move.

I'm not giving you the power to whisper, and, Oh, she doesn't want to... It feels way more empowering.

This is extremely timely. I probably shouldn't say it, but I'm going to.

Is it gossipy? Yeah.

Well, no, it's not gossipy.

I love some hot goss, for sure.

Right before I got here, I got some information about a previous guest whose publicist has reached out. There's all these articles about this person that are ridiculous. So ridiculous.

Meaning frivolous?

It's Maya. Rudolf?

Yes. Oh, so it's excerpts from the episode that she did.

I don't know what they're saying. There's something happening, I guess, where they're calling her a nepo baby, and they're referring to this episode. But there's no reference of nepo baby. There's nothing.

But also, I feel like it's also a neutral phrase. If you are a nepo baby, why does it matter? Then you just are.

Let's add, nepotism cannot get you on the Saturday Night Live for seven years where you score every night. What the fuck are we talking Exactly. Nepotism is like the dumb dumb son running the Fortune 500 company that he inherited.

It's not literally the obvious talent that Maya Rudolf possesses.

I don't know what they're saying because I haven't looked, but it is so annoying that someone decided to grab onto something.

You can't control other people's stupidity and their moods and how they fucking want to react to you. And don't give them the credit. Now I'm 27, and I think I'm finally really letting go of what people think of me as just none of my business. I can only control being me. And like you said, if you're upfront about all of your shit, then it's like, well, you can't say it to me first. It's so hard to get there when you have started really young. In the industry, I still am like, how much should a person be triggered by when I see something that hurts my feelings on the internet? I don't know if the amount that I get triggered is normal. So I just delete the shit. I delete the app. It's just like, I can't.

It is hard to know, right? I'm writing about my childhood right now.

Are you writing a memoir, a book? I am. Oh my God, that's so exciting.

I'm describing why I had to read out loud and I was stuttering and fucking chore and making all these weird noises trying to sound out shit. I could see my face. The freckles, there's too many, and it just looked like a cloud of fart gas. It was like yellow freckle gas on my face. No one fart. And my teeth were so jack.

You did a reading?

I'm talking about the experience of being in class with dyslexia, and they call on you to read, and you're trying to read the thing and you're fucking the whole thing up. But there's not only that, I can see my face fucking it all up. Then I'm describing my freckles and my crooked teeth and my huge overbite. But I'm acknowledging, I don't know how that was relative to everyone else's experience. I feel like I trend really self-conscious, above normal self-consciousness.

Even before you were in the public eye?

Yes. As a kid, I felt this searing self-consciousness. Like the spotlight effect. Yes, it fucked me up. But then I'm also probably like, no, it's probably standard.

Everyone, yeah.

We all probably are panicked half the time.

I think especially if you're sensitive. I find that my favorite people, a lot of the times, for some reason, have some anxiety because it makes them really empathetic and sensitive. The people that are just like, I don't care in the lase about everything, are more likely to be dick sometimes.

A loop. Monica and I had this little... It wasn't a rift, but she was using an emoji just for a few weeks. I think she was trying it out. It was the emoji with the girl throwing her hands up. Oh, yeah.

I love her.

What does she conjure? Is she like, I don't know, or is she like, whatever.

After 20 of these, I told her, I don't like it. It feels aloof. You're over everything.

It hurt his feelings.

Yeah, that emoji is like, I don't give a fuck. I'm like, I don't really want to interact with someone that's going- You want a panicked emoji?

Yeah. It's weird.

It's like you want me to have all that. No. I'm kidding.

Yeah. I just don't want you to be over everything. That's how sensitive I am, that an emoji- I'm super sensitive.

Yeah.

Sometimes it's funny, though, because it depends on what you're...

I wasn't saying it- You were getting pretty rapid fire with it. I was.

I was getting fast and loose. Well, I had to test out all the iterations of it.

Are we meeting at 12?

No, I don't fucking know. We'll see.

Figure it out.

Maybe. Okay, I was I'm going to ask this question at the very end, but you just said it. I'm curious, if you had to choose, You are all powerful, would you have started your career when you did, or would you start the full ride you took at this age? You're 27. In one year from now is when I started my journey. Really?

You were a full person.

One argument I can make is you were already post. You seem to be emotionally and spiritually where I was at, maybe 39, which is cool. But then I don't know, what are your thoughts?

I don't think I would have changed when I started because so many parts of my personality today are because of the tools and the skills and some adaptive and some maladaptive.

I like that word maladaptive.

Mechanisms that I had to develop to survive and thrive. For example, I'm really into Buddhism. That would have never happened because I needed those tools, being on stage and being calm and being able to pull through. But also it just carries over to other life stuff where I feel like I'm wiser than I would have been.

I don't know how you enter into this huge arousal cycle at like 15, where it's like heightened, heightened, heightened dopamine.

My nervous system is definitely like...

You shot.

Oh, my God. Right?

Poor baby. In my much more minimal experiences than you've had. It is a very heightened experience. And then you get into this, I think, dopamine deficit cycle. When those highs are gone and normal life resumes, it could feel very low. I mean, to me, it would be so obvious. You discovered Buddhism because I got to regulate in some way.

Right. Or the amount of self-growth podcasts, like Armchair Expert that I listen to. But I listen to so many- That's a maladaptive one. Yeah, that's a maladaptive one. There's some adaptive one. But I listen to a lot of stuff where maybe other people my age weren't listening to that. You grew up fast. I grew up fast. But then there's been times, for example, COVID, I learned how to drive and I learned how to cook, and I was just living the most normal life.

I don't want anything salacious to come out of this, but also you were like- I fucking do.

Okay, you- I'm just kidding.

I didn't look like this town empire.

I'm a neppo baby. Exactly.

You heard it here first.

A neppo baby from Cuba.

I don't even know if there's such a thing.

You were having a domestic experience, too, during COVID. Yes.

I became a way more well-rounded adult. I was like, What do I like to do? I learned how to fucking ride a bike. I had never ridden a bike before. Oh, my goodness. It was literally... What's that movie that Emma Stone is in?

Oh, yes, yes. Yes.

Poor Things. Yeah, it was a poor thing.

Or Billy Madison, where it's like, What if you went back to fifth grade? You finally had time to resume ninth grade.

I left in the beginning of 10th grade, so I never had the high school. My sisters were picking up prom dresses for her now.

Wait, Sophia is that young?

My sister is 17. You know my sister's name? Did I just tell you?

No, I know it.

Wow.

Yeah, okay.

She's just such fucking legends. I can't even take it.

I didn't realize there was a 10-year gap. A 10-year age gap.

Yeah, I know. It's crazy.

She was born here, obviously, then.

She was born here, and she is living all the reckless teenagehood that I didn't. And do you feel jealous? And that I still feel like, do I feel jealous? There were times where I feel like I had bad COVID. I feel like I was just going through a rough time. My OCD was so bad, and I felt like my sister was having the best time. I was like, The fact that I'm jealous of a 15-year-old right now is crazy, but I did miss... I'm always looking for that carefreeness and that return to childhood in a way.

Well, let's start at the beginning. Okay. Because it's fun and unique. Let's start with your dad, because I want to know what's happening where a man from Mexico City decides to emigrate to Cuba.

My mom emigrated to Mexico. That makes sense. When she was in her maybe early 20s, she was let down by the revolution. My grandparents were a part of it. Then there started to be the power outages and the lack of food. That's when she realized, Oh, this is not the promise that they sold us. So her and her cousin went to Mexico.

Can I add one fun thing right there? Yeah. I went to Cuba right when you were allowed to. Kristin was shooting there, and I took the babies there. We had this amazing, I guess maybe a fixer. She was like, 27-year-old girl, really fucking brilliant, grew up there, spent her whole life there. She was explaining after the revolution, they assigned people housing. That was the housing. They weren't building more housing. Then you just inherited your housing. So it was like, if you're a great grandparents got a shitty apartment, that's it for the bloodline. The people that got the really nice house, that shit, that's what they got. It's so fascinating trying to comprehend a world where it's like, no, this is the family house, and that's the only house that's ever going to be.

It's curious. No matter how hard you work or how smart you are or how high up you get, there is a ceiling. That's it. That's the house. That's the car. Everybody gets, I can't remember what it was, but it's maybe four eggs per month or something like that. There's rations. In the beginning, people started off being like, wow, there's health care for everybody and nobody gets left behind. No homeless people. Exactly. So my mom and her cousin go to Mexico.

Really quick, was it easy to leave and go to Mexico? Because you weren't allowed to leave and go to the US, right?

You can leave. I think it would have been hard to come back or something like that. I get more and more information as I get older. Immigrant parents are such liars. It's crazy. Yeah, they do lie a lot. They lie so much, right? They're like, Wow, I didn't know you were fucking married before my dad. They're crazy. Wow, secret.

Things were different then.

I know. Yeah, so many secrets. So they go to Mexico. I think my mom was working as... I don't know if she was an architect or a bottle girl. She was both during her time. What's that?

But she was trained as an architect in Cuba, right?

She was trained as an architect in Cuba. You just bring the bottles to the club. Oh, like- Bottle service. My mom was and is hot.

I don't doubt it. Are she and I the same age? How old are you?

49. No, she's older than you. She's 54.

I'm in.

You're stacking up a lot of people. You already have somebody else's mom, too.

I'm an addict. You know that? Yeah.

I forget who it was.

I have the disease of Mork.

Round them up. Camilla Mendez.

Yes, who's mom is an airline stewardess. Right.

And she's not, too. Sorry.

I said the wrong word. People secure me. Camilla Mendez. No, I said airline stewardess. You can't say that. Oh, flight attendant. Flight attendant. Apologies.

I didn't know that. But anyway, she meets my dad. She's a bottle girl at the club. My My dad is a bartender.

So he's a stud because the bartender is always a stud.

Yeah, my dad is a stud. I have to show you a picture of my dad.

Date him, too. I'll date him, too. Great.

More, more, more. The disease of more. So they start dating after maybe seven months of being friends. And my mom in Mexico, she stayed with a family friend from Cuba. But I'm really proud that I feel like I come from a family of fucking hustlers. My mom didn't have her period for eight months because at one point, she was living on Diet Coke and for days and days. I love this story about my parents. My dad, while they were dating, he had this watch, and he sold his watch to get her a bunch of groceries in the fridge. This was actually before they were dating. So he just did this as a friend. Oh, good friend. So he was always like- He's a stud and a good guy. Yeah, good guy. He was always taking care of her. Then she got pregnant with me, I think maybe in the first year that they were dating. No judgment. I didn't mean that with judgment. Within the first year. Then my dad They had traveled from Mexico to Cuba with me.

So you were born in Mexico?

No, I was born in Cuba. Sorry.

Yeah, you were born in Cuba.

Okay, great. I skipped some chapters. But yeah, they would go from Cuba to Mexico. I went to school in Mexico, too.

Then mom takes you when you're six to Miami, Florida under the false pretense that you're going to Disney World. Exactly.

What? More lies.

How long did it take before you actually went to Disney World? A year. A year? That's not terrible. Although when you're six, that's 20% of your life you are working.

Yeah, I'm like, When is it?

Wait, so she takes you there What happened? I don't know.

Because the mom's a hustler, so the mom's in Cuba. She's like, Fuck this. Let's go check out Mexico City. Still not good enough for me. Let's go to Miami.

She was just like, This ain't it. But yeah, I think she was just like, I want to go to the fucking United States.

Yes, of course. The land of hustlers. The land of hustlers.

Let's get it done. Exactly.

And you go and you end up staying with grandfather's colleague, friend, and you live with her who becomes godmother.

Yes. Wow. My goodness. My lord. He done did a deep dive on the fam. We stayed there for a month in a room in her house, and my dad had not yet.

Eighteen months for him. He's got to wait a year and a half.

Oh, because of a visa situation?

Bitch, I don't know. I really heard so much. I don't heard him. It's hard to do business.

You'll find out in 15 years.

Exactly, yeah. She'll tell me at some point. Not even. It will just come out through somebody else asking her a question. Then she started working at Marshall's and started going night school, taking English classes, and we got our own apartment. Then a year later, I had this little Disney calendar where I would cross the X's until when my dad would come. And my dad told me this. He was like, When I first got there, you wouldn't talk. You were so shy. I feel like this is such a kid thing to happen. You're like, I'm so excited to see my dad. I'm so excited to see my dad. And then my dad came and I didn't know how to talk to him because it had been so long. Because you're right, at that age, one year is one seventh of your life.

Yeah, and it was a year and a half of my facts are right. So we're talking like a fifth of your life. I wonder if something more happened. Did you happen to listen to the Gabor Mathe episode?

Yes, I probably did. And I fucking love Gabor Mathe. See, if I hadn't started in this industry at 15, would not know Gabor Mathe. No way. Exactly.

There's no way.

I was 48 when I learned of Gabor.

I needed him. I fucking needed him.

But he tells the story of having been separated to evade Nazi capture, then reunited with his mom. And then even as a one and a half year old child, was I seeing out mom as this protective thing of, I'm not going to trust you again because you're going to go. I'm not going to go through that again. So I I do wonder, even if it was like, excitement, excitement, excitement. He's here. Oh, my God, can I trust myself to reattach? Exactly. Or is he going to bounce?

I feel like there's probably so many ways in which immigrant kids carry that stuff in our bodies when we're older, that instability.

It gets passed down. I just had therapy about this because I was home. I mean, home. I was with my parents recently. And the last day of the trip, I was so anxious. I was like, What's going on? Why am I so anxious? I get anxious around them a lot. But I was talking to my therapist and I was like, I guess I feel like, how are they surviving? Are they okay? They're in this world of white people. I mean, it's just deep. I'm not thinking that consciously that they're in this world of white people. It's just a feeling. It's just a feeling. And my dad was like, well, what do we do about the ballet? Where do we park?

And I was like, what?

It's like, it's fine.

It's just overly triggered.

Yeah. So I was like, what do you mean? It's fine. Why is this so stressful? And then I was realizing, well, I need to say that to myself. Why is this so stressful for me? And it's because every time they don't know what's going on, I feel like they're going to die. How can they survive in this country?

Like they're exposing themselves as being other when they don't understand these.

Yeah. And it has nothing to do with that. But I take everything like that. I bet that you carry so much of that as well, I assume. Yeah.

Now, and I'm not trying to make you cry, but I think when you're 27, I'm assuming you don't have a terribly clear memory of being separated for that year and a half, but it's part of your story, and it's like, Oh, yeah, it's just a piece of your story. But I can tell you as someone who has an eight-year-old and an 11-year-old, if they hadn't seen me at six for a year and a half, it would have a big effect on them, especially if you're a daddy's girl.

I'm such a daddy's girl.

Then, yeah, it had to be a very disruptive bit of time.

It's crazy because I think my brain is like, anything that feels emotionally traumatic, I just black it out. I don't remember some chunks of my life, to be honest.

We just had a memory person on, and he was talking about that. Really? Does that happen? Yeah. And there's some conscious choosing of what you keep at the forefront.

My brain is so excellent at that.

Similarly, we learned, which is so fascinating, is your memories are altered by what perspective you're currently in when you look back on the memory. So if you're sad, you're going to more dial into those. If you're happy, you'll remember more happy. It's as subjective as the conscious experience is, of course. So, yeah, it's hard to really know what the actual truth is.

Which is so relieving, actually. I definitely had the habit of going back and trying to just figure not from childhood, but adolescence, what was right and what was wrong. And there's something so freeing about being like, I don't fucking know. I'm never going to be able to objectively... Assess it all. It always brings you back to, there's no choice but to just fucking be present.

When your memories start, mine start in second grade, if I'm being honest. I have little glimpses, but from probably second grade on, I have a pretty good picture.

I have some sensory little sparks of things. Our house in Cuba or certain smells will be like, Whoa, I really remember this. But I feel like the first visual memory is first grade when it was the first time I liked a boy, and I remember seeing him, and I remember exactly what this little boy's face looks like.

But again, look at... I mean, it's so fucking basic, too. It's like you miss dad, you miss the male attention, or the maleness. Then in first grade already, you're like, boy energy.

Yes. I always, in any guy that I am pursuing, if they have any dad-like qualities, somebody like my dad, I'm in love with them. I'm always looking for somebody my dad. But I also think he's the best person. I remember, I think you had Gwyneth on, and she always talks about how she was in love with her dad. I'm just like, I want a man exactly like my dad. Yeah. Maybe not exactly, but... Sure.

The 2.0 version of dad. Yeah, 2.0. 2024 version.

Yeah.

You know, it's funny. I know exactly what you're talking about, and I know the exact sentence because I happened to be behind her on an airplane, randomly coming home from Nashville on Easter, and she was directly in front of me, and I leaned over and I was chatting with her. And I said, When you said everyone has a father, but if you're lucky, you get a daddy. I remember that.

And it wasn't here. She said that. It have to be.

It wasn't here. She said it on Stern, and then we talked about it on here. I remember you talked about it on here. And as I'm saying daddy, I'm fucking crying. I'm sitting next to my nine-year-old while I'm saying it, but yes, I couldn't agree more. Same. Love everyone that was like my mom. Anyone that was like my mom, I dated for a very long time.

Yeah, I've definitely dated guys like that for sure.

Okay, so you're a boy crazy from first grade. Yeah. Then when do you start singing? When do you know that you have a good voice? What pocket of Miami are you in? Are you in a very Latin-heavy area? Are you feeling that Miami vibe?

We moved around, but we moved into this apartment complex. And the first friend that I ever made in the United States was because we had this boom box and I would bring CDs and we would just listen to music, and then we pretended we were in a girl group. My first friends that I made were always because of singing and music. So anytime somebody asked me, When did you start singing? I can't pinpoint. Music was my number one joy.

When is the moment that either your parent or someone you admire says, Oh, you're actually good at it? You're good. When you go from, I sing because I like it and I'm happy to, Wait, I actually have this skill?

I think my friends, when I was in elementary school, I remember high school musical had come out, and I would bring my High School Musical CD, and I would play the CD, and I would try to hit the high notes, and my friends would be like, Wow, that was really good. I don't know if you had this experience, but singing was its own form of power currency in elementary school. I feel like everybody wanted to be a singer. Everybody wanted to be on the fucking Disney channel.

You guys are also close to the source of the fire. They're doing a lot of that shit in Orlando.

Holy fuck. It's delicious. I'm sorry. That's so good.

I know. We always feel perverted telling you the name of it, but that is a cream top. Wow.

This is a cream fucking top.

They need to change it. I don't know if it's working. They cancel them fast enough. How do we get from elementary, wow, I can hit the high notes. Oh, everyone's into this. Oh, this is cool. I got a superpower to You're auditioning for X Factor. X Factor.

Even when I was in ninth grade and when I was in middle school, I just wasn't going out and hanging out with people and partying. My summers were going on YouTube, looking up the instrumentals of songs and singing. I got more and more obsessed. This is what I like to do more than anything. I was a really big pop culture fan. Even when I was little, I had a Justin Bieber phase, I had a One Direction phase. I had a Taylor Swift phase. Some of these phases are ongoing. I was about to say. They're still happening.

I was I say earmark Taylor Swift because it's crazy to have a phase and then open for her. Exactly.

Oh, my God.

I know. Yeah, that was fucking crazy. There have been so many moments that have been like that for me where I'm just like, I just can't.

Do you have a hard time internalizing them when they're happening?

Yeah. Sometimes I feel like I can't. I bet you guys feel like this. If your favorite person in the world is sitting right in front of you on this couch- Camilla, for me.

Sure.

Yeah, whatever. But you know what I mean? You can't- I can be honest.

What did you say? I said Matt Damon. I can be honest. Right.

If When Matt Damon is here, you're not going to watch five Matt Damon movies the night before because you can't. You'd explode. I just did Coachella with Lana. Yes. I've been telling people... Oh, I haven't been telling people. I told one person. Tell us.

Tell us. I've been telling person.

I've been telling many people. I had to not listen to her music for four days because I can't be a fan.

Yeah. Yes. Being a fan is tricky.

Problematic for performance. It is. Yeah, I had to do that with Letterman. I had to do 10 days with my therapist of going like- I love the 10 days with I'm a therapist.

That is so real.

I got to walk in there for this 90 minutes as a peer.

But sometimes I try to, and this is the Buddhism thing is right now, I just had a moment where I was like, Wow, really fucking take this in. You've been listening to this podcast, and now you know what the inside of this room looks like. Nobody You guys don't take pictures in this room.

Well, we do for the social, but you obviously- I'm still the biggest fan. Obviously, don't follow us on Instagram.

I actually do. I've never seen this room in here, though. It's really such a nice vibe. I love it here. I don't I don't want to leave.

You chose to not wear headphones. You don't have to. Explain that to me.

I feel like I'm a little bit of a sensory overload person. Yeah, I could see that. You could see that, right? I have not let go of this chapstick.

I know. I want you to vape. I mean, I don't want to for your health. My dad vapes. My dad vapes, and my sister vapes.

Yeah, of course, because she's having deep.

It's fun.

I know. If I started hearing my... I would just...

Monica is so embarrassed for her dad right now. I love it. My dad.

Wait, what? I missed this thing.

I was like, Oh, yeah, because that's fun. She looked at me like, Dad, stop trying to act young. Then I I'm embarrassing Monica, which can be a very fun thing. I start leaning into it. Yeah. You vaped? I did. I had a phase. I smoked forever. I was a smoker. I haven't smoked for 19 years. Then in COVID, best friend Aaron Weekly was visiting.

Aaron Weekly. Shout out Aaron Weekly.

Boom. He was smoking darts, blowing camels up on a vacation. It was the first time I ever wanted to. I was like, Well, I can't smoke. Then our friend Matt had vaped. I'm like, Well, I'll do that for a week. Cut to a year and a half later. I had to quit that. You're still vaping? Well, I haven't for a while, though.

My dad does it because it just really calms him down. Does it really calm you down? I can't tell if I have an addictive personality or not.

Well, I want to get into that.

I think I do have an addictive personality, but I think because I started so young and X-Factor and whatever, I think I have a very military discipline. I'm very disciplined. I smoked a cigarette in Paris, and I fucking loved it.

Sure. It's the perfect place to smoke.

It tasted so good with the Espresso. Because of that, I was like, I can't do this every now and then.

Stay tuned for more Farmshare Expert.

If you dare.

I keep interrupting you. I really want to apologize. Oh, my God. No, please interrupt. I'm very I'm very excited.

First of all, I'm Cuban. Okay, we did this- It's all interrupting. We did this. We spit it. Yeah.

My daughters were making fun of me yesterday because I told them I was interviewing you because I knew they would be excited, and I was trying to steal your cultural capital to make them like me. As you should. Yes. I want this for you. I was pronouncing Camilla a little off. Then on the same day, this is yesterday, my one daughter said, How do you say that word? Because on the radio, there's a song called Espresso by- Yes, Sabrina Carpenter.

Sabrina Carpenter.

Yes, yes, yes.

Thinking about me. Then my My daughter said, pronounce that word. And I said Espresso. And she said, But do people say Espresso? And I said, Yeah, people say Espresso. People like me say Espresso. Oh, interesting. Even though it's wrong. And so the joke yesterday was they told me I should say, Would you like an Espresso Camilla? So I could fuck up both things at once.

Espresso Camilla. Yes.

And you just said you were drinking Espresso. And I just thought, that's impossible. You on your own brought up Espresso. When they told me, I had to say to you Espresso wrong.

That's a co-inky-dink.

That was a zap to my brain. Whoa. Okay, now, so you smoked that one cigarette, and then were you inclined to do it again when you got home?

Of course, I always do. I miss cigarettes. You do. I'm a smoker, and I never have.

But here's what I would say that's parallel the addiction and the OCD is you're spending your summer as a kid in your room listening to YouTube.

You fucking busted me.

Right. Also, I think where it parallels addiction is like, you did that once, it gave you a feeling.

Yeah, no, you're right. My therapist would say, we actually don't even call it OCD. We call it obsessionality.

Oh, okay. That's fun.

Because why?

I don't even know. I think something about OCD, just that- Because it has disorder in it? Yeah, it's triggering for me for some reason. It's just you have an obsessive nature. I have an obsessive nature. Which is a superpower.

It really is. You got to learn to wield that sword. 100%. Yeah, you're right. Part of me is like, Stop trying to euphemize everything. But at the same time- What does euphemize mean again? It means make it sound better than it is. She had a strong smell. She smelled like shit. That's a euphemism. Okay.

What? That you should use a euphemism if someone smells like shit.

She's in the room. If she's not in the room, you can say she smells like shit for sure. I guess. I guess.

We can be honest. It's amongst ourselves.

Yeah, amongst ourselves for sure.

But I don't know that we need to euphemize every single thing. It is weird to call OCD a disorder because it's a personality type and it's super beneficial.

I also think there are some things that don't fit into neatly labeled boxes. None of them do. Sometimes it is just you're being obsessive. It's not necessarily obsessive, compulsive, or pathological. Yeah, because then it's placebo effect and you start giving yourself symptoms that you didn't even have. But when I was younger, I definitely did have a fucking textbook. Did you have tics? Yes. Hug my parents for 11 seconds or else they'll die. Pray to God, then kiss your fingers three times or else you have cancer. All of that just adorable stuff. Why do we do that? I had one time where I was in seventh grade. I got my period, then I didn't have it for a year, and I thought I was the Virgin Mary.

Oh, my God. Wonderful.

No wonder you and Liz are friends. Yeah.

That's so Liz. Then there was the whole neurosis. I would just pray every night for God to take away the new Jesus Christ that was being born in me.

You didn't want to be the new Virgin Mary. No, I No, no one wants that.

It's time consuming motherhood. It's too much responsibility. Too much for a seventh greater.

You got to guide this. Messiah.

Yeah.

No, totally. Not me, God, please.

Yeah, it's like I'm stressed out because I think my kids have the potential to be good singers. I hope we get them there or writers, but not the Messiah. Wait, I have a question for you.

So my mom is like, I really hope my sister isn't in the industry. Are you like, I hope they're not. Or are you like, No, I hope they are because they'll have somebody great to guide them.

Well, what I think is I don't want them to do it as children.

It's really important. Yeah.

I just want them to have stuff to draw on. I want them to fuck around in New York for two years without thinking about people or looking at them.

Like if they're going to be filming them. Fuck up pretty big time. No, fuck up. I just started giving myself permission to fuck up literally a year and a half ago. Right. Before that, it was like every mistake I made, I would just punish myself. I was so hard on myself.

The world was watching you. It wasn't even in your head. It was a reality. But so I would like them to have childhoods, but I do have a lot of friends that don't want their kids to go into it, even as adults. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I wash cars for fucking 16 years. What job do you think is more pleasant? You what for 16 years? I know your father and I have this in common. I washed cars. I detail cars from 14, I guess I just exaggerated, 14 to 28. So 14 years I washed tens of thousands of cars.

You washed cars longer than my dad.

Tens of thousands of cars. Right, because this is so cute, Monica. The mom who had been trained as an architect who came to America and worked at Marshalls, ended up taking a job working in an architect firm because she knew AutoCAD. She taught herself AutoCAD. And then the The dad and the mom formed a construction company named after the little girls. And then had a family business construction company. Oh, my God.

That's incredible.

I think this is also an immigrant parent. Even now, my mom cannot fucking sit still. Yes. She just has to always move. But wait, talking about the industry, I agree with you.

Like, say, words in front of a camera and hang with a bunch of creative people. How could that not be great?

I feel really lucky that I've held on to the sacredness of what made me get here in the field. I love I love music and art so much. If anything, I love it more and more the more I'm exposed to things. I watch an amazing movie or I read an amazing book, or I listen to an amazing album. Sometimes it's frustrating because I do feel like there's a big difference between commerce and art. Actually, by the way, you know what? Let me go back because I'm not trying to sound like a pretentious dick douchebag, but I'm saying it's different. Doing something that you love for work has its own trickery because you find yourself being like, Well, I want to succeed in the business sense, but at the same time, I never want to lose the childlike integrity of why I do things.

Don't you think you're dancing with the devil in that what you don't want to do is make your art service the commerce because you're afraid that it'll no longer be art?

That's what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to sound like I'm fucking like Michelangelo.

You should want the success that you're trying to prevent yourself from letting it guide your artistic output. Yes.

It's hard. I've done that for 95% of my career, which is really good. That's huge. That's a really good batting average. I feel like now, for example, in this last album, 100%. I I never, ever did anything that I'm not obsessed with.

I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. That's the song. I figured. You knew that. So young, Monica. Watch out. I'm younger than you right now.

Take a hit of your babe after you say that.

I am really delighted to hear you say that because I do think what could happen starting at 15 and it being professional since 15 is you could be like an Olympian where you fall in love with the sport and then the sport becomes everything. Oh my God, yes. You don't enjoy doing the sport anymore.

No. There can be something fun to the competitive aspect of it, too. For sure. But sometimes I feel it in myself and I'm like, the competitive thing has to take a back seat and you have to get back to joy.

Again, that's another thing. I don't think it's black and white. I don't think it's like, don't be competitive or not. It's like, what's the ratio that you don't feel sick about yourself or disappointed?

Yes, exactly. It's constant. I love this meditation that I did once where it's like, life is like riding a bike and you're constantly microbalancing. You're constantly like, oh- Little adjustments. More weight here. Just tiny adjustments.

Did you do the meditation after COVID when you learned to ride a bike? Before that, that would have been very confusing. Yeah, I know. Exactly.

It would have been a bad metaphor.

What are they talking about?

I thought it was all about pedaling. I think the zone is like, I want to win, but I'm not rooting for someone to fail. That's the line. I'm not actually seeking someone to fail, but I am seeking to win.

I think that's something we don't practice a lot in our culture. Anytime I catch myself feeling jealous of someone. I did this last night, I practice genuinely trying to find the space where I feel happy for them.

Who are you jealous of? Because that's really hard to believe. I'll list some of people I'm jealous of. Okay, go. Vince Vawn, still to this day.

I get jealous whenever I feel like they're having their moment and I want to fucking have my moment.

Well, how could you be a performer and not be jealous of Taylor Swift?

Taylor is a little different, though, because Vince Vawn is your contemporary. Taylor, I don't feel like is my contemporary. She was before me.

That makes sense. It'd be like me being jealous of Bill Murray.

That's right. That's a good reference for you. No, obviously, he's the goat. Not going to be jealous of him.

And he's 15 years ahead of me.

It's more like your where you're like, Fuck, I want what she's having. I do think there is a competitive drive that is important and fun. It's like why I love sports documentary. It's like I love Kobe Bryant, Muezz.

This is telling of you.

It really is. That informed a lot of my teenage years.

Do you harness Black Mamba?

I did, for sure.

I really did. Do you know what that means, Monica? No. He was beloved. Then he had legal troubles, accused of rape. Needs to be said, he was not convicted of that for this conversation. But everywhere he went, people started booing him. It was a huge huge 180 of his experience. At some point, it was either going to kill him or he said, You know what? Now I'm Black Mamba. Fuck it. Let's go. He actually thrived on going into Denver and having them boo and be like, I'm going to shut these motherfuckers.

I think Beyoncé has a similar thing where I've heard her say, not personally, to me. She said when she's angry, it makes her a better performer, makes for a better show, which is maybe maladaptive.

I would argue it's adaptive. I think it's adaptive. There's a positive outcome out of something negative. That's adaptive. I think you're right. If you something good into a negative, that feels maladaptive.

But there is a very powerful energy behind anger or sadness or rage, and it's huge.

Yes, there's sexual, and then there's justice in revenge.

And they're huge. Yes. You know what? There's times where I remember this performance that I did singing to my dad, the first man performance. I will say I think love is a huge energy source. I remember being like, fuck whoever's in these first few rows, this is for my family. And that shit, my hand was so steady because that energy is so strong. But that's adaptive. But that's adaptive.

We all do it. We all use anger and revenge. We can use it positively. I do think that would technically fall in a maladaptive category.

I think the Black Mama stuff was more in my teenage years when I was struggling a little bit more. The group stuff was hard. Everything was hard. I felt misunderstood sometimes. It was just all fucking hard. That was my way of releasing that, was harnessing that. But now I don't draw from that place as much.

Yeah, you're right. Again, everything's in moderation. I do hear a lot of people tell their story In so many people's story involves, They told me I would never blank. I'm like, Who? It's like 80% of people's stories. They told me I would never blank. Who's they? I think a lot of people invent the they that told them they couldn't do it. I think that they is actually themselves were terrified they couldn't do it. Others is fictitious they that said they couldn't do it.

I find myself doing that sometimes. Then I remind myself it's never as personal as you think it is.

Exactly.

Don't give a fuck. It's like maybe they just didn't see it because they weren't seeing it that particular Monday, but you're giving so much energy to that. They just went and had breakfast after that. It's just never that personal. Yeah.

Okay, you go to X Factor, you go through the process. They don't air your thing, which is interesting. They couldn't get the rights for respect. You sang Aretha Franklin's Respect. What a swing for the fences. Oh, my God.

Well, I made it the poppy version.

Okay, go ahead and sing it for me now. I don't mind if you do.

That's all I'll do because I have a fucking You were supposed to then go… Definitely not a choice I would have made now. I was fucking bold as hell. I love it. Jesus Christ. I just was like, Nobody's going to sing this song in this way. When they didn't air my audition, that started building my underdog story for sure. I was like, They didn't believe in me. Now, come to find out, six years later, no, they just didn't have the right. They can't afford the rights to respect. It wasn't personal, bitch.

They didn't air her going through the audition process, but you go to boot camp, and then you get bounced out of boot camp. Your story ends on X Factor at boot camp, but then they bring you back, and they bring you back with four other people. Monica, I did not know this story until today. They bring her back with four other people, randomly paired, and they perform together. And that becomes Fifth Harmon.

Whoa, the random group?

Yeah. Did you think we knew each other before?

I assume that with all of these groups, and it's never that way. Like, Spice Girls was placed together, and even more and more now.

With the K-pop groups and stuff.

It's such a fascinating dynamic to do that. Because if you look at all the great bands that historically have existed, it's like two or three of them all went to high. You look at Led Zeppelin, people knew each other. Chili Peppers, they're best friends, and they form a band.

But in the band, everybody had their role. There wasn't five lead singers.

That's another insane dynamic. Five lead guitar players.

I think that's probably why those bands were more sustainable.

Durable, yeah. So you were 15. What were the age of the other four?

I believe it was 15, 15 a few months younger, maybe 16, 17, and 20.

So it's not like you were 15 and they were all 18. So it was a little smattering of ages. You were older than one person, and then three were older than you. Yeah. Also, it's a unique moment to fuse you guys because you have all just, I hate to use the word failed, but you guys all came there with a dream, and then that was shut down. And then now this is this weird second chance. And so I would imagine that's an interesting I was such a big One Direction fan that I was like, whoa, this is crazy.

I'm living this reality.

So were you immediately embracing of it?

I was immediately embracing of it. I was like, this shit is fire. In elementary school, I always pretended to be in girl groups with my friends. I was literally in four girl groups before Fifth Harmony made of seven-year-olds.

But out of five people, there's no way all five had that same- No. All right. We don't have to name any names.

I have no interest in creating drama. No, there was definitely a reaction for sure. Understandably, I think I was lucky. I was already a One Direction fan. I was just crushed that I wasn't going to keep going. This was the closest proximity I had to actually doing this.

In your mind, this was the one shot you'll ever have in your life. Yeah.

I was like, I'm going home now? Hell no. I'll be fucking janitor here if you want me to. I was just happy to be back. Also, to be honest, the One Direction thing, I was like, Wow, this is so sick. I was really happy.

Then you obviously, you guys hit the chemistry lottery in that as a group. It immediately works. That's also one in a million.

It really is. Even seeing stuff because there was a brief moment on TikTok, I guess, where there was a bunch of videos of us coming back, and I was like, Wow, yeah, I could see how as a fan, it's really interesting to see five totally different personalities. It's a crazy social experiment.

It is. Yeah, it's like Big Brother or something.

Yeah, it was definitely not boring.

How immediate was it?

It feels- Guys, should I put these on or no?

What's it?

I'll play if you like. Hello?

Do you like it?

I actually really like it.

Well, you know why I was going to say you might? Because it actually limits the amount of stimuli.

No, I actually I really like it. Yeah.

This is nice. Does that sound good? Your voice sounds.

It's making me want to talk more. I like it.

Same, same, same. How immediate is that first performance on X Factor to, You guys have songs in your touring?

Shit, you're really making me draw on the memory bank. This is where We definitely have some gaps here, but we went right into it. We were nonstop working for five years. I think we maybe had 15 days for Christmas break every year. And besides that, we was working. I think right from X Factor.

Yeah, that's 2012. And then by 2013, you have We went right into the studio. And how big are the shows you guys were playing at that time?

We were in malls. Oh, yes.

What was that like?

Was it fun or humbling? There are some hilarious memes now.

People who saw you at Sears.

Just hilarious. Yeah, literally just giving our all with fucking Forever 21 in the background.

Yes.unglass mobile kiosk behind you. Yeah, literally. What did it grow to, though? The size of the venues you were playing?

Some arenas.

Everyone's parents are with them during these tours?

When we were minors, it was all parents. Then there was a point where it was two parents at a time. It was capped. It was capped. Probably for fucking budget reasons. It was just hotel rooms.

At any point did you start getting... I think it would be insane excitement. Then at some point, I'd be like, Hmm, somebody's making a lot of money around here. Did that ever click to you?

We actually always made the same amount.

I'm more mean whoever's on top of all this.

Oh, I think you meant.

The promoters, not the band members. Right, right, right. More like the Simon Cowles and the LA reads and the promoters and all that.

Maybe some parents were smart enough to figure that out. Honestly, until maybe the past few years, I just never really thought about money.

This is Monica's gift.

Well, but also because you're doing the thing you like.

Yeah, we all were. I think the currency of that time when you're a teenager is not money, it's fame, power, ego, how people look at you. I think that was the currency that we were all-How was your ego doing at 15, 16, 17, 18 with that amount of attention and approval?

Be honest. I would have been a monster.

Well, tell me specifically, you mean like, how was your ego as if I was fucking like, Yeah, I'm the shit? Yeah. No, I truly was I was like, Yeah, I'm the shit. It was definitely competitive, for sure.

You wanted to be the best singer in the group?

Yeah, I wanted to be the best.

Did everyone?

I think everybody did. Sure. It's designed- I wanted them to clap the loudest. Yeah, I wanted them to clap the loudest. I wanted to be the most loved.

Yeah, how could you not? The weird thing, can I just add one thing I think is really interesting, and it's a gender dynamic. As a girl, you're already beautiful. So guys are an option. I think when you're a boy and you get in that situation, you're like, Hold on a second. Every girl here likes me. That's a very powerful elixir. I think that's where I would have destroyed myself at a young age.

Girls don't have groupies like guys do, though.

They don't?

No.

Because was it mostly girls in the audience?

The people that are coming to the shows are girls and gays. Girls, exactly.

Girls and gays.

Yeah, Gs and gs. So we're not really getting groupies like that. We're getting maybe one or two hot famous people that slide into your DM. Okay. You live for those one or two people. You're like, oh, my God, this is all I'm doing. It is fucking slim pickings out here.

But they're not coming to the concert because in the patriarchy, they're not going to show up at this a bunch of powerful girls.

Unless they're smashing.

Well, unless they're smart, but they aren't.

It's so hard in that dynamic to even admit, Yeah, of course I wanted to be the best. Of course I wanted the most applause because I felt the demographic at times could be very toxic, and they would be How dare she want to be the best. How dare she want the most applause. Fucking bitch. And it's like, Well, I'm sorry. I'm human.

We all did. They designed it that way. I mean, five beautiful girls who can sing? Of course. It'd be crazy if you were all at that age. Like, Yeah, we're super happy to completely share this-Yeah, I'm sorry.

It was before we had our prefrontal cortex. It was informed.

Yes, yes, yes.

I do wonder, also, you're from a very individualistic society, which is very well studied and documented. I do wonder if these Korean bands that are- Right. That's such a great point. They might be more well positioned in a collectivist society to deal with that better. You're supposed to win everything you do.

I know. And also how people react. There's always, who's your fave?

Who's the best.

I think we all felt like, I want to be your fave. You just want love.

It equates to acceptance, which is the nice thing we really want.

100 P.

And you're also selling merch, I imagine, like individual merch.

That could be- No. You're not. No way. That would have been a fucking night out. Yeah, that's bad.

If you were selling 10X of your T-shirts to other members of the band. Are you on social media at this period?

I promised myself I would never Google myself or search my name on Twitter or anything like that. But you are on social media enough that you can feel it. You know how many followers.

That's what would get tricky because there's five members of the group, and everyone can see how many followers everyone has. Were you the number one that was followed? No, it's another question.

Don't be mad at her for saying that. Dax made her say that.

No, that's just a fact.

What's crazy is I do feel like the fans will eat you alive. It's fun.

It's okay. Let's add the layer of misogyny that exists somehow with my woman, which is the only story for five women working together is that they hate each other and fight. That was the Desperate Housewise story. Any one of these, they don't ever do that when there's a group of dudes. No.

Yeah, no one's saying...

The dudes have to be fist-fighting each other in public for that.

It's crazy Justin Timberlake wanted to have a solo career. No one's saying that.

100%. I will say, to be fair, I think the best part of looking at groups, because I remember seeing this from One Direction or Destiny's Child, you love seeing the sisterhood and the friendship and the moments of laughing because you want it for yourself. Yes. Especially as a fan, it was a parasocial relationship, and you just place yourself in that. I actually think people root for people to get along. It's such an impossible situation. Imagine you're a girl of 11 years old, four years older, being thrust into a thing with four other girls.

One of them would be great in it, and one of them it would destroy. It would be hard for- It's also a person It is.

It is a personality.

I think it would be hard for anyone, any type of personality, because you can't help but compare.

Well, look, I was at the ground leans at 27, 28 in the Sunday Company. When I say I love everyone there, I would have done anything for anyone there. I would have given them my money. I'd jump in front of a train for them. And I definitely wanted to be the best person in that show. And I wanted them to clap the loudest for me. And you were 28. Yeah, I was 28.

Yeah, right.

All things were true.

All things were true.

When you left, What was the main thrust of thing you were desiring? Was it expression? Yes.

I was so into songwriting, and I just wanted to write my own songs.

Who at that moment that you were about to launch your solo career were you obsessed with as an artist?

Probably Taylor. I think she was the person that made me get into writing.

That's so cool because the vibe is so different.

It's so different. I mean, it really evolved. My influences are so different, but I think I started to find my voice through You see a young woman who writes about her experiences through song, and it just feels like, I can do that. That sounds fun.

I think she's almost the best role model an artist has ever had. By the way, Beyoncé is my number one. She fell out of the sky. And so there's a lot of things about her that are not really even aspirational. I can't look and move like Beyoncé. And she clearly has a great work ethic, but that's not the thing that was center stage. It was like she's so glamorous in her fucking innate singing. Well, not innate, I'm sure she worked for it. But her range and her power as a vocalist is like Aretha. So these are things I can't work and get. And so for Taylor, I think there's so much of her success is just based on the commitment to explore herself and tell her story and be prolific and hard work. That's a really great role model.

I think there's different things that I take from both of them. Beyoncé, I think she has that Kobe Bryant thing on stage. She's just like a fucking monster. What she becomes when she's on stage, it's superhuman.

Okay, so Taylor was obviously someone you were like, Okay, were you old enough and mature enough to recognize that the thing she was doing was also securing some longevity for herself? If that was the approach you took, you could more write your own future.

I definitely feel like, wow, thank God that I started writing at such a young age. There was an era of people that were maybe just singers, and they took songs from people. And now the industry has changed so much where the song writers that were behind the scenes became artists. A lot of those singers that did that are like, Oh, shit, who's going to fucking write my song? I feel really grateful to past me that I had that curiosity because I don't really have to wait on anyone or depend on anyone.

That's what I'm saying. It puts you in the steering wheel a lot more.

Absolutely.

But that's the misleading thing about Taylor. When you say it seems a tiny bit more attainable because it's not dropped from the sky. It is. Her ability to write in a way that's hyper personal, yet extremely universal is unparalleled. There is not another artist who can do that, that specifically. There's a new album. People have all kinds of opinions on it.

You know what's funny about the way you just said that, I don't know what's happening. I know, but everyone else does. But I now think people are shitting on it. Is that what people say?

Yeah, some people are. It's also the most streamed album of all time. She's doing just fine. But at first, when I heard it, I was like, whoa, it's a little too personal. I can't connect. And she says, these are poems. But then I listened I was like, No, I can't stop listening now. I super-It's a grower not a shower.

What if that was the Rolling Stone review of it? It said a grower not a shower. That's actually amazing.

I was going to say, I think she taught me so much. I feel like my favorite art now is the more specific something is, actually, the more universal it is. A hundred %. I feel like my songwriting grew so much when I was focused on that. Don't try to make it universal because then it's nothing.

Exactly.

Well, the hits start coming fast. When you go solo, they're coming hot and fast.

Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah.

I want to go in order.

Wait, while you wait for your order, I do want to say one thing because everyone's going to- I'm also peeing my pants.

Oh, go peeing. Can I? Okay.

Yes. Matt Davin's in here. Yeah, he is. He looks there.

That was fast. I am the fastest here in the world. Wow, on a press. Do you guys go in your pool a lot?

Yeah, we go in the hot tub almost every night because we sauna every night. Do you cold plunge? Yeah. We have a plunge in the sauna.

No, I don't cold plunge.

She's a beast in the sauna, though. Her Indian blood.

I do like the sauna. She's impervious to heat.

She's gone in there in her clothes.

That's insane.

I did one time go in my clothes just to say bye, and then we started chatting.

She didn't sweat. You don't even notice that you're in a sauna?

I don't know if she wasn't sweating because she's impervious to heat or she has no water because she doesn't drink water. I don't drink a lot of water.

I don't get thirsty. Yes. I don't get thirsty unless I'm working out. If I'm I'm super thirsty.

I don't get thirsty.

I am with you. Or in the sauna, other than that, I'm not thirsty. I could go literally all day. I don't crave water.

One thing I want to say real quick before we come back in, because this happens all the time, and it's important to me that we say, I don't like that every time we talk about Taylor, or every time we talk about Beyoncé, not you. In general, the world is doing this, where they are now linked, where we're comparing one to the other. I mean, a part of it's timing, I guess. They both had concerts at the same time. They both have these new albums, but it's always. Even from friends of mine, I know they're like, I'm a Beyoncé girl. I'm like, Well, you can be both. That's crazy.

I don't do that, but I thought it was so sick when they linked up.

Me too. Wait, what's that mean?

Love it when two bad bitches link up. They just supported each other's.

Oh, they went to each other's concert?

Yeah, they're red carpet. I think that's so fire because other industries, you have colleagues and you go to lunch. The music industry is really not like that. Supportive. It's like, Can we just hang out? We all do the same thing. Yeah.

Were they the only four people on planet Earth that knows what this experience is like and we could comfort each other. Yeah, let's have dinner. What the fuck? But I do want to, Monica, I think we're smart enough to make the distinction between what I was saying and what some people are saying. A lot of people are positioning this as who's better. Yeah, where it's apples and oranges. That is not at all. I'm looking at two people that are apex success and how they did it differently. I would say, Vince Vawn and Will Farrell are two of my comedy heroes, and they had such different approaches and what were those approaches. I think it's honoring them to actually break down what their unique recipe is that ends them both here.

I'm not saying what you did is wrong, but there is a- There's a pitting against each other. There's a big conversation out in the world that's specifically about them. And it's a very common thing for female artists. I'm sure you get it all the time. You do not hear it as much at all with this man is always compared to this man, and who's better, and who's not.

That's not true, Monica. In the rap world, you were Jay-Z or Nas, and they hated each other. And then it was Prince or Michael Jackson. It's very human for there to be two popular things and you to identify more with the other and then inadvertently make yourself in that team. So it's not exclusive to women. I don't think that's really fair.

I think it's much more prevalent. Okay.

I definitely agree with the they got to be fighting because they're women. They can't get along stereotype that's perpetuated. But I think men are pitted against each other. Like Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones or Rolling Stones and Beatles. In fact, growing up, my mother was like, We're a Rolling Stones family.

Yeah, I definitely remember growing up and being like, You're either a Prince fan or you're a Michael Jackson It pervades all of it, to be honest.

Okay, so you leave in 2016, and then quickly, Hey Mom comes out. You're in a Fast and Furious soundtrack. Crazy. You go on the Bruno Mars 24 Magic world tour. But I imagine, even with that success and excitement, Havana is like, something bonkers is now happening. Is that fair to say? Oh, yeah. Best selling single of 2018, Spotify's most streamed song ever by a solo female artist. As much as you wanted to win, when you win that big, then you flip and go like, oh-oh.

Like a little too fast.

Yeah, or just like, I don't trust this.

Honestly, what I remember-We were like, I knew it. I don't think you ever know how big a song is going to be, but I feel like I know when a song is special. I was like, I feel like this bitch is special. Yeah. Yeah. Say it. Whoa, those are those Beyoncé pipes coming in. There was something just weird about it. Those are usually the ones where it either totally goes under the radar or it really connects. People either really get it or they don't. I often know if a song is good when I play it someone, not because of their reaction, but how I feel. You almost are extra critical because there's somebody there. If you're cringing inside, you're like, This is not good. If you're like, Fuck, yeah, then you know it's good. Hear this shit. Yeah, exactly. I think that's why it's important to stay connected. If you're always listening to music for fun, you know how a great song makes you feel. You know if your song makes you feel like that. If it doesn't, then you're like, Well, shit, this ain't it.

Stay tuned for more Farmshare Expert, if you dare.

What I remember the Most of my time actually was, and not to sound ungrateful because I'm not, but I had my first relationship at that time.

I can't even believe I blew past this. You lived out my fantasy.

Oh, God. What was it?

For people who have not done this in their life, it's a very weird experience, which is you go on a publicity tour of some variety. And on your schedule in the morning, you wake up and you're going to do Today's show, and then you're going to The View, and then you're going to David Letterman at night. And while you're out around town, and it can even happen in Atlanta, they send you to Atlanta and you're going to do this show and this show, you're at a hotel and you see other people that are promoting their stuff. So these are colleagues that you didn't even imagine you had. And so you go on these shows and I always had this fantasy where you're in the green room with people and you meet a fellow actor or a fellow something, and you're both out selling your thing. I've always wanted to fall in love with one of those people. Is this the relationship?

This was the relationship.

So she's doing the Today Show and meets a guy who's there with, presumably a book or something. He's a life coach. Yes. So what happened? You're at the Today show. Were you in the green room?

I was outside where they have the TV with the scripts. I had actually listened to his podcast before.

By accident or in preparation?

No, I listened to his podcast before as a fan because he had a dating podcast. Okay. And he is married now, so congratulations.

Yeah, wonderful.

But I was like, Oh, my God, I'm such a big fan. I love podcasts, as you can see. And so we went to dinner that night, and that was my first relationship. It was late for my first-how old were you? Yeah, how old were you? I was 20.

Did you feel a little, not fraudulent, but-Oh, yes.

Right? Absolutely. I was like, Oh, my God. I've never had a boyfriend. There was literally eight songs that were basically lonely.

I am so lonely. Had you been having sex at all before 20? No.

That was my first time having sex. Lovemaking. First love making was at 2021. It was love making. Oh, God. It was literally love making. That's wonderful. Yeah. No, it was beautiful.

Yeah, good.

That's a great Now, one thing I did think about, because he's a relationship expert, or at least I had written a book on dating, and now I'm learning how to podcast about dating, at any point would you go like, this feels like he knows too much about this, and it's calculating?

Sometimes, but I think that also honestly made him a great partner. He was a really great person. It was like the perfect first relationship. Really expanded my world because he wasn't in my industry, too. It was like, oh, my God, have you ever seen Anthony Bourdaine, Parts Unkown? And have you ever seen Studio Ghibli films? He just expanded my references because before that, it was six years just in the music industry. We traveled and we took trips. I remember when Havana was really big, I was just like, But most importantly, I'm in love. I'm just such a fucking-So what It was a year of your life, 2018. Yeah, it was a great year. I really want this year to be similar for me. I really hope I meet someone that I really like because it's been a while.

It has.

Probably, yeah, like a year. I always say I would relive seventh grade over and over again.

I I love that.

Would you relive 2018 over and over? If you had to pick one year, no, what would be the year?

No, no, no. That's far too hectic. I feel like I really... I won't say peaked at fifth grade because that's not the vibes that I want to give. But fifth grade, I feel like I was king of the world. I had my first tiny little boyfriend.

He kissed you on the cheek and you ran away.

You are the goat. He kissed me on my cheek.

You need to write a song, Kiss me on your cheek and I ran away.

By the way, I actually did write a song about this called Butterfly Garden. It was about being in fifth grade. That didn't make the album.

There's no way you would know this, but do you know this band, Wolfpack? No. They have a song. It's the cuteest song in the world. It's a great song, and it's called Back pocket. The song is, Put it in my pocket, put it in my pocket, in my back pocket, put it in my pocket, in my pocket, in my back pocket. It's all about getting a note slid in your back pocket on the playground.

See, I love the specificity of that. Exactly. That's some Taylor Swift shit.

That's some T Swift shit right there.

But yeah, fifth grade. Also, I feel like that was my favorite era of music, too.

Who was hot when you were in fifth grade?

Crank That Soulja Boy. Oh, yeah. Slow by T. Payne. Okay.

Oh, man. That was in college. Got to get low, low, low.

That's the one. Yeah, Stronger by Kanye. What an album.

Okay, is it too much to ask? I mean, this would be I guess. This gentleman was a little bit older and he had already worked through all of his stuff, and he probably was wise enough to go like, This girl's still on a big, big ride that I don't know if I can link my cart to. I got to let this one go free and flap her wings and do all her stuff.

Yeah, I think we really I'm really putting this through a big filter, too. Okay, of course. Because I want to be so respectful of him. But I think he knew that. But we were so happy together that I think he was probably like, This will be strong enough to out a what is normal 21-year-old curiosity and piquing over the fence and whatever.

I would be very scared to be in love with you in 2018.

Yeah, I think he was. He had a lot of anxiety about it, reasonably so.

Having never met him, didn't read his book, knew nothing about him. It sounds like maybe he smart enough to go like, I wish I met this person 10 years from now.

We always said that. He always said that.

It's cool also of him because I think a lot of guys would have then tried to destroy you so that you couldn't have that future so that he could keep you. I think you see that pattern, especially with powerful, talented women who have a lot of attention and their own money. I think that impulse is not to set you free, but to try to take all that from you so that he can have you forever.

So he can control you. When you're that young, love feels like the fucking best. It's the number one drug. If somebody would have been like, drop everything and run away with me, I would have been like, fuck, yeah, I'll do it.

Right. That's what I'm saying.

He could have been a dick. Yeah, 100%. Whereas now I would be like, that's maladaptive. But I probably still do it, actually, to be honest.

My therapist said this is maladaptive.

Yeah, and I would still do it. I feel like, okay, when's the flight? Album promo is canceled.

Do you feel like you give men a lot of power? I say this to Liz all the time.

Even when I just said that joke, I'd probably still do it. There's two parts of me that are always fighting each other. I know that it wouldn't be healthy, but I would still want to do it because it feels so good.

Well, I can tell you exactly what happened. You would do that, but you would do that for nine months. You'd wake up one morning and go, What in the fuck am I doing? I don't really think you're domitable in that way, but I do think you could convince yourself in a romantic fantasy. Yeah, me too. But I think you would pull yourself out of it.

Just because it's so fun, because I still actually don't think there is anything more fun than when you're first with someone. There isn't. There are things that are more nourishing. More nourishing, more nourishing, healthy and a deeper joy. But as far as the candidness of it all, nothing.

And back to energy sources. Oh, yeah.

Energy is impossible.

It's cocaine. It's cocaine. And an obsessive person You just cannot get enough of that feeling.

In the planning of what thing you're doing next and living in that what's next thing. Oh, my God.

And your energy after you text them. Everything is funny. Everything is going to work out. Yeah. Everything is amazing. It's the best day ever. Do I give a lot of power to men? Can you specify a little bit more?

Because I don't think she'll care because she loves you. I'm going to bring her in. I say this to- We talk about this, though. Liz, yes, you're an eye friend. Mutual friend. Our friend Liz Plank.

You're an eye friend.

That's how you say it.

Our urinary friend.

That's a correct great word.

Our urinary friend.

Our urinary tract. Our urinary tract. Uti friend. Liz, I always tell her that she gives men way too much power because she's incredible. She's She's so smart. She's beautiful. She's capable. She's everything. She's everything. Often, she'll dilute it or she defers to men. And a lot of areas in life, not just in a relationship, but even her and I have talked about business stuff, and she's like, well, my mentor. And I was like, Liz, That person should not be your mentor. But just because he's this powerful man, you immediately elevate... Because the world elevates him. It's not necessarily her.

And also I feel like mentor men do walk around with a you need me vibe.

Yeah, but she's susceptible to that. And I wonder, are you?

I definitely have that tendency. And then when I like somebody or have a crush on somebody, I'm always working on pulling myself back to reality. This is so easy for me to spend the whole day daydreaming about them and giving them characteristics that they have not shown me. I have to remember, not the person that's in your head. It's so much less fun. That's the thing. It's literally like sobering yourself up. It's like up. It's like you are drunk off of this fantasy that you have created yourself.

It's having a glass of water between drinks.

Yeah, it sucks. We hate water.

We literally are never thirsty. I always have to bring myself back to the reality, which is always less fun. I remember before whenever I would perform, nobody would make me more nervous than my boyfriend. I did feel like I would give men too much power at the time because my therapist would be like, That person should be a source of comfort for you. That person should be a source of like, I'm so happy they're here. I'm nervous about everybody else. But I would be the most nervous. I would be doing fucking SNL, and I would be like, Is Sean going to see it?

Yes. I almost think what your therapist is suggesting is unrealistic and an unachievable goal, which is actually, why would you give a fuck what anyone else thinks? You're not vested in that person liking you.

I don't care what Joe Schmo thinks of me. I care what you think of me.

Yes, the person you're in love with thinks of you. I actually think that's healthy. You should care what your friends and family... Now, should we elevate it above friends and family? Maybe not. I don't know. There's a zone that's probably healthy, but I actually think that's very natural and almost seems like a waste of time to fight that.

It's true. But if you're anxious, it depends. If you're just like, Eee, I hope they like it, or I want them to be impressed by me.

You said to me the other day you saw my last Kimmel appearance. Yeah. And you were like, Oh, my God, buddy, you crushed it, or whatever.

That was great. Yes.

And I was like, Oh, that feels great. I mean, certainly people said that on Instagram to me. But yes, I want Monica to think I'm funny when I go on TV.

But 100 %.

If Kristen says, I was hysterical.

It's more like if you were like, Fuck, Monica is going to watch it.

Exactly.

Well, yes, that would be the pathological side of it. Exactly.

I go a little pathological for sure. Right.

Now, what's interesting now that I've met you and I've interviewed Sean, and I've also been at a couple of places where Sean wasn't chatted with him. I think what would be interesting about you two is that you're both in a very wonderful and cute way.

Oh, God, what are you about to say?

You're about to say neurotic. You want to figure it out. You're on it, right? There's therapy, there's some self-actualization going. Foodism. Which I like, but I almost wonder, I think at least what works about Chris and I is we're watching a doc right now about a murderer, and his friends don't want to turn him in. And she's like, How could these people not turn him in? I'm like, Hon, if Aaron killed someone, I'm not saying shit. But just we're opposites. I think both of us were like, Yeah, let's help our friend bury a body. Not a great partnership. I almost wonder if you two could be on this journey together and at some point just look at each other and go like, Jesus Christ, we're both 85. One of us has to be insane.

No, 100%. I think that even though I talk about the Buddhism of the Therapy and the Meditation, I do feel right now, especially, I'm in my era where I need to go out and have fun and have a good time. It's teenage time for me, for sure. I want to almost black out, but not.

Do you want to hang later? Because I drink a lot of wine.

I am actually not that into wine. It just makes me sleepy. But I will. Martini?

Yes, great. Okay, great.

Perfect. Expresso.

Exactly.

Expresso Martini. Expresso Martini.

With Camilla.

With Camilla. Can we do a show with you that's called Expresso with Camilla? We'll have to change the spelling of your name, of course.

Yeah, sure. Camilla, my alter I know you have two listeners, Lincoln and Delta. Yeah, I definitely think that's why I gravitate towards people and guys who are maybe a little bit more on the dangerous side because I don't want to take this too seriously.

This is self-serving, but can I recommend a reformed bad boy? That's maybe the sweet spot for you.

Yeah, I agree. Why?

That's everyone wants that. And they're not very many.

There's a lot of bad boys when they're on reform.

They think they're reform, but they're not. Oh, okay. Right, right, right. So slippery.

The pool is shallow nowadays, for sure.

All right, so what we have coming is CXOXO. Yeah. But that's mid-June-ish. You'll have to explain the strategy of all this stuff to me because you release signals leading up to it. I love it, of course, it's out already. I listened to it twelve times this morning. Did you?

Yes. For fun or for research?

Well, I listened to it once for research, and then I was like, I'm going to keep listening to this song.

Were you working out? I feel like it's a good workout song.

Then I watched the video, and I love the video. Thank you. It's almost like a mini episode of euphoria, just in its tone.

There was a lot of euphoria visual references for the album. I guess this is all just a ploy to relive my teenage years in the way that I want.

It feels very Miami, too. I don't know what your childhood is, but it's almost like a Miami version of euphoria.

Right now, I'm deep in rehearsal times, so I actually can't drink and go out that much. But when I am in Miami, those are my favorite nights. When I get dressed up with my friends and we go dancing.

I love Miami. People try to shit on it. It's cheesy.

What do people- What are they, by the way?

Those people are allergic to a great fucking time. Literally. Because that's probably the only place I go where I actually can touch what it felt like to be drunk. Sober. I can buy into the- You can wear a speedo. Get my yellow speedo. Then I love going out to these restaurants where it's like everyone's on a runway, everyone's swinging for the fences.

Everybody's trying to be on vacation, but it's their home. I love this quote that's like, On the other side of cringe is everything you want.

I like that.

Good because my big trigger word is cringe. I hate when people use that word.

It's such a snobby word.

It is. They're going like, I'm embarrassed for you. Fuck you. Why don't you go try to do something for yourself instead of judging?

Why don't they try not themselves, though? I feel like I made myself cringe.

When they write that, that's a comment people write on posts.

Miami is the best, though. It feels like it's not in the United States because of the... Is this a word confluence?

Confluence?

I feel like that's not a word. No, it's a word. It is. It's the merging of two things. Yes, the merging of the Latin people and the people from the Caribbean. There's so many different cultures. It's such a melting pot. Most Uber drivers will only speak Spanish.

It's vibe city.

The energy there feels just way more relaxed. Speaking of my family's story, everybody there has the same story. Everybody fucking moved when they were six years old, and their parents were from this South American place. It's a bunch of misfits in that way. Junkyard dogs. Exactly. Mutts, scrappers.

Yeah, I love it. Me too. When I watch the video, I'm like, Oh, sign me up. I want a whole month there in that weird house. Drive the moped through. Let's fuck shit up. Cops should be called at some point.

Let's Spring breakers vibes.

Another great reference, Spring breakers.

That's a big visual reference for the album, too. Yeah, Harmony Kareem. I feel like this album is all about, which I feel like is why I love this show so much and why I love you guys so much is I feel like you guys are not afraid to show the complexity, just the messiness of being human. You're like, I do this thing that's fucked up and could make me the bad guy. I am the bad guy sometimes. I'm also not.

Sometimes, shockingly, I'm the good guy. Can you believe it?

Everyone's all of the things.

I love it.

Is it departures too strong of a word, but there's an evolution here. And so this is where you need to educate me. I just don't know this world. I know movies and TV.

Oh, wait. How was Finneas? Because I saw you guys on a- I haven't listened to his episode. It's a great episode. I will listen.

He's phenomenal. I know he's the best. He's 26.

I'm sorry, what? I know. He's one of those people that makes me feel like I'm fucking 12 years old when I talk to him. Me too. How are you so mature and have your shit so together?

After the interview, had I no idea when he was born, I would go, Well, he and I are definitely the same age. There's just no question. All these references.

How old do I feel? Thirty-six. No way.

Yeah, I feel like you feel like my age.

Wait, that's really cool.

No, Feneas feels 48. Would you want to work with him?

Yes, I actually have worked with him before. Oh, you have? We made one of my favorite songs together, maybe a couple of albums ago. It was so fun. It's called used to this.

What was the process of working with him? Did you have to go to some unconventional space to make the music?

We didn't go to his house. Okay.

You weren't in his parents bedroom?

I wasn't in his parents bedroom. I think it was one of the first times that I was seeing Sean, and we wrote a song about it. Wow. It's one of my favorite songs. He's so good, though, but I would love to make more music with him.

Do you feel like you got the experience? And again, this is all me watching the Billy Eilish doc.

Okay, I haven't seen that.

Oh, you haven't? It's so beautiful.

But it's from when she's really young, right?

It's from four years ago. What are we talking about? She's still really young.

I feel like musicians see things in... It was eight hairstyles ago. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's probably right.

What he appears to be doing in that doc, because I want to be fair to her, she's a beast.

I her. She's awesome. But he had this most gentle, loving way of helping her pull these things out of herself. In addition to being a music producer, he's like an incredible therapist. So did you get that?

I did. Even in that album where I feel like I still hadn't found complete confidence as a songwriter, like the way I have for this last album. I think he was one of the first people to... I don't know. That was one of my favorite songs, lyrically, songwriting-wise of that album.

Do you have producing partners that you're just like, We click every time?

It changes. It's like sometimes you really get along with somebody, and then two years later, you're like, I don't feel anything.

I think it's smart to mix it up.

You have to because it really is the stars aligned. I've had producers who I've made a whole album with, and then because it went so well, I tried to recreate it the next time. That's the danger, I think. Then we just didn't have that same chemistry. The expectations are too high. Yeah, you have to really be open. But what I was going to say about Phineas is it is really beautiful how he has such a loyalty for Billy. He's always defending her.

Oh, he did it in the episode. It's amazing. It made me want to hug him.

I love that. That's one of my favorite qualities in people.

Well, he's being very polite about his own Fame, right? I understand people are this, but then when it would get to how they treat her, he's like this fucking rude and bullshit. He's like, Protected. I'm in bullshit. Yes. Get it, Big Brother.

I have a question. Am I 36 to you guys because my Buddhist meditation therapy stuff? Do I feel like not?

No, because your skin looks terrible.

Right. Okay. Yeah, that is it. I was just visual. No, it's all the cigarettes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I guess Ego So centrically, I got sober at 29. In two more years, I would have been making this decision like, We got to get our shit together. Right. So I put myself, when I'm in at least group therapy, I'm like 36, seven. When I'm starting to understand Why I get mad. And then Buddhism was this January first resolution. Really?

Yeah.

And I hardly understand it, but with little I understand, I'm like, Oh, my God, this is the greatest thing ever. When I was 27, I knew drinking was built, but I didn't know. You're like, Fuck it. Yeah, it was still fun.

Yeah, totally.

Okay, but again, back to the evolution. I'm curious. I guess I've dealt with this as a comedian a little bit, which is you define a point of view and you define a voice. Yes. But you want to evolve, but you don't want to alienate, and you don't want to lose what's great. So how do you navigate that when you're like, I want to grow, but I don't want to lose. Is it scary or you don't even think about it?

I don't think that much about losing the point of view that I have had because I'm just really focused on whether this is great or not. And I love it. There are other songs on the album that feels more like what I've heard from her, a similar perspective. But I think it's always going to feel like me because I've been the one that's writing. It's always going to have a similar voice. I mean, I'm not the same person now that I was two or three years ago. My references have changed. The things that I liked have changed. There's so many habits that I feel like I picked up three years ago, and now I'm like, Eew, I can't believe I did that.

I wish I could remember the verbiage, but one of the reviews I read of I Love It is like, this signals a something pop. What is Hyperpop?

Hyperpop is a genre. There's different artists like Charlie XXX or Sophie or 100 Gex. Not your sister? Yeah, not my sister, which I feel like it sounds just like very futuristic pop, like high-pitch voices or really intense, crazy-sounding drums. I think this particular song is Hyperpop.

The tempo seems quicker as well. I would love to be in a club dancing to this song. Yes. In fact, I specifically, and this is not a great thing to say, I specifically thought this fucking song would pair so well with MDMA.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. This song was built for MDMA.

Music to me is like, some songs make me feel like that.

And you're in your adolescent phase. So it's like you want to be in a club feeling that feeling.

My favorite things that I have done, like Havana or whatever is when I'm doing something that feels weird. That's my favorite. My ego thing or whatever is not if it's successful or not successful, it's more is it basic a middle of the road or did I try something different? And if I tried something different, then I feel cool, and then I feel I'm the shit no matter what. Does that make sense? Yes, I love that. It's like anything, really. In any movie or whatever, you want to be on your toes. Yeah.

Okay, last question. This one's scary is, how much do you worry about longevity or the future? One part of me is like, I would love to have Havana. Also, so scary to have Havana. It's like Tarantino directing Pulp Fiction as a second movie. That's a lot. We deal with this a lot. It's an interesting thought of, could I just succeed mid-level and be happy?

You're like, there's David Sideris, then there's fucking Camilla. Fuck. No, no, no. No.

No, but it's a blessing and a curse to have achieved something so huge. I just wonder, do you obsess a lot about the future in longevity?

I think about it. Then I think my way of preparing for it is diversifying the things that I like to do and the things that I'm knowledgeable about. Like, okay, once I don't have a fucking pop star face and body- 65 million Instagram. I think it's smart to be like, this is temporary. Yeah. Buddhism. Totally. After me, there's going to be... It already is. You're the new kid on the block. Everybody's excited. Then it's like your fourth album, and there's another person who's the new kid on the block, and it'll still keep happening. But I think being like, okay, well, maybe when I'm, I don't know, in my 50s or something, I could put the other soundtracks for movies. I could do this. I could do that.

Well, that's the innate and inherent issue is that to do what you've done requires almost 100% time and focus. You can't really be building out these other sectors of your life. That's not the nature of a tour in writing an album. So it's like, when would we dedicate the time to have a real pickleball passion? Because time doesn't allow for that.

But I think more and more now, there's people that are multi-hyphenates. Speaking of Charlie XX, you see that she's working on a soundtrack for this 824 movie, and she's also making an album. For me, it's like that feels like a more interesting life because you can also be so in your bubble. I mean, it's like you were an actor, you were in movies, and right now you're not a director. No, I'm a podcaster. Yeah, you're living a few different lives in one, which I feel like is so much more fun.

Just for me, I get bored easy. Me too. I get, too. This was a party. I had high expectations, but this quadrupled them. Really? Yeah. This was so fun.

I've had so much fun. I want to hang out.

You are welcome to hang out. Really? Do you really mean that? Yes, I really mean that.

Okay, well, I would love to have dinner We can have Liz and- You guys can get fucked up.

Let's get fucked up. I'll drive everyone because I'm the dad. Oh my God, yes.

I would love that.

Then I'll cry when I get home.

To that Gwyneth quote, that one, Gwyneth quote. I had so much fun. Thank you so much for having me.

It It was really, really, really, really fun. I love you guys. And Expresso came up. It was like in the stars, the thing that an espresso came up. I loved it. And you're always welcome back.

Oh my God.

Yeah, next time you're in town, let us know.

Camila returns.

Yes, the return of Camila.

You could be like the David's of Darius.

No, but I want to come also and just hang out because I feel like we would all be such great friends.

Okay, wonderful. All right. Well, first of all, everyone, listen to I Love It right now, and then watch the video. The video is 10 out of 10, and then fucking start counting down the days to mid-June when the whole album C, XO, X,Cexo comes out. Really? I adore you. I adore you. One more visit, and I'm going to be saying, I love you. Oh, my God. I think that's how it feels.

I adore you. I can't wait to come back. This was the best thing ever. I've been excited about this for literally years.

Hi there. This is Hermium Hermium. If you like that, you're going to love the fact check with Ms. Monica. Okay, I'm done chewing.

Okay, you ready?

Yeah. I'm I'm doing the Finding your Roots this Friday.

Oh, that's so fun. A friend of the pod, Henry Louis Gates.

What does everyone call him? Everyone calls him Skip.

Skip-y. Yeah.

I just want to know about the shepherd side of my family. I've heard so much about the Lebeau side. My uncle already did a big genealogy thing. I know all this lore. Some of the family members were killed by Native Americans in Michigan. I don't know one thing about the haunchals and the Shepherds.

I thought you've been doing a lot of research on it.

Other than my immediate uncles who I know all murdered everyone. But I don't know anything above them. I don't know anything about the shepherds, like Papa Bob.

Yeah, that'll be fun. Yeah. Are you nervous?

I'm mixed between nervous that they're going to want me to cry at some point. I think that they expect you to cry.

Don't feel obligated to do that.

It seems common that someone cries. He'll hit you with a piece of information. That's what I'm nervous about. He's going to be like, Are you ready for this? And I'm going to find out. I'm going to be Yeah, I mean, whatever. It's almost like Christmas present opening. Sure. I have a little anxiety that my reactions aren't going to be the right ones.

I get that. Yeah. Whatever your reaction is.

And then conversely, I am considering an open to the notion that I might start bawling for some weird reason. You might. That's interesting to know you're going to go do a show, and you might just start crying in the middle of it. It's different than if you're an actor and you go and you know you have some scene.

For sure. I do think most of the time, if you anticipate it, you don't. Well, I don't anyway. If it's like, Oh, this is going to be emotional, it normally isn't.

And that's why I could see it actually hitting me because I have no expectation of being emotional. As I've told you and I told him, I'm hardly... I don't feel any connection to the things people did before me. If learning my great, great, great grandfather was a general in a war, I don't really care. I'm like, That sounds like a storybook.

Yeah, that's true. Well, you'll find out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mostly just want to know the gnarly stuff, as you know. Yeah. I don't know about all the crooks and the... Would you want to find out you had saints in your family or criminals?

I'm with you on I don't care. Right.

If someone was a great leader of freedom in India.

I mean, I guess I'd be like, oh, that's cool. I'm linked somehow to that. Yeah. But I wouldn't feel guilty if I was linked to something bad.

No, not at I don't feel connected with that. It's more interesting, to be honest.

But it's interesting. Yeah.

And I have no one to call. Well, I could call my Uncle Randy on the shepherd side, but everyone's gone. So I would call my brother, but I know he doesn't give a fuck either. I know I'm going to call him. You're not going to believe this, but Papa Bob's great great grandpa, and I'll have lost him already at that point.

Right. Exactly.

I'm my brother. My brother never calls me, right? We text. We talk so infrequently on the phone. Yeah. And he called me. Must have been Friday night. Oh, we were watching the documentary about Immaculate Heart. There's a documentary called Rebel Heart. It's about the nuns who broke away from the archdiocese.

Cool.

Yeah, they were pretty kick-ass. It was a pretty good doc. We're watching it, and then my phone rings as my brother, and it's late. It's like 10 o'clock at night or 9 o'clock at night. So of course, my first thought is my mother has passed. Oh, my God. What else would you think? He doesn't call me, and it's night. So I leave the room. I'm like, Hello. And he goes, Is that pickleball post? Is that real or did you get paid to say you liked it? Do you really like it?

Oh, my God.

Totally reasonable question.

Yeah.

And I go, Oh, no, no, no, no, And did Kristen like it? I'm like, Yeah, she liked it, too. He's like, Okay, great. I'm going to do it. I'm going to order all this shit. And it was just all about pickleball.

So he was just up late?

Yeah. I mean, it wasn't two in the morning. It was just like, yes, he probably was scrolling at 9:00 PM, perhaps laying in bed, and he got really excited.

Well, 12.

No, why 12?

Aren't they- He's in Oregon. Oh, yeah. I forgot.

No time change.

Oh, yeah. That makes more sense.

Yeah. So It was fun. I hope he gets into it, and I'm converting my driveway today into a pickleball court. So hopefully, he can visit me and I can pickleball each other to death.

That's so fun. Did you say you've played yet? No, I've been wanting to. So a lot.

Oh, fuck is it fun? I really want to learn. Oh, good. It takes the 13 seconds to learn. Oh, good. The only hard part is the scoring system is so bonkers, but you get used to it.

Fun. What part of the driveway?

So I'll move the bus back, and then I need 40 feet, 20 feet wide. Okay. And I have it. Fine. So a volleyball court in the grass and pick a ball. It just turned into a sports complex. It really did.

I have an update. Oh, okay. The place I went to maybe get Kybella, and then I got all that skincare stuff.

Yeah.

That did not work for me.

The skincare stuff? Yes.

It backfired- It did? Badly. Yeah.

When? I missed that because you didn't have a skin outbreak.

Yes, I did, and I still am. But I mean, I'm wearing makeup, so it's less noticeable. I'd been on the new regimen for a week, and bad.

Really bad results.

Bad, bad results.

Oh, wow.

So that whole excursion was not worth it. Okay. That was bad. But you know what? You live and you learn it.

You try stuff, you try stuff. Some stuff works, some stuff doesn't. You keep trying.

Yeah, it's frustrating. It's a frustrating process. I am going to another place tomorrow Oh, my God. To just get another consultation about maybe some chin filler.

Okay.

Or whatever. I just want to get their opinion.

Sure, sure, sure. But your Kybella All is done. That's off the table.

Not 100%, but I'm mostly done with it.

The comments which you wouldn't read, they were a very mixed bag for people who have done it.

Really? Yeah.

I'll just leave it at that. I don't wish to disparage anything I don't know much about, but very mixed bag. Now, some people loved it, but it was definitely not the unanimity you would want before. Okay. You don't ever hear people go, I hated my Botox.

I have heard that. Oh, yeah. Yes, but only because if it's too much, you can look so stiff.

Frozen. Yes. Frozen face syndrome, FFS.

So people don't like that?

Yeah, but that's what you're going to get.

That's the worst case.

And that can't be unexpected. That's how it works. You can't move your fucking forehead.

I know, but if they do small amounts in the right places, it can be fine. You can still have some movement and some expression. It's just not so many wrinkles. But some people, it gets stuck.

Like Bell's palsy.

Yeah. I heard one story of someone, maybe that was filler, but it made their eye all droopy.

Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Then they just had the filler removed?

Yeah, it dissolved.

It went back to normal?

I think so. That's the thing with filler, is it can be dissolved. I might try it. I might not. I don't know.

Yeah, they use, I think hyaluronic acid dissolves it.

Oh, really? That's also what is used often in the filler.

Oh, then maybe I got that wrong. Maybe it is hyaluronic acid.

Sometimes it's hyaluronic acid in the lips. Oh, it is. That's a common Anywho. Anywho. And there's another place I want to go to also for a consult. I want to just see- Sample all these places? Yeah, before I make any major decision.

What's the other place offer? Something not- Same. All the same style. Yeah, I guess there's no one has a totally unique approach to this. There's 10 or 12 products, I guess.

Everyone uses. Except in Korea, they do all kinds of stuff.

Sophisticated stuff.

Well, yeah, I was listening to this one podcast, and this guy went there. I don't know if he got it or if he was thinking about getting... It's called Tinyface.

Oh, what happens with Tinyface?

I think they make your face look tiny. They shrink your face? Yeah.

I don't know about Can you look it up?

Tiny phase surgery.

Oh, surgery.

It's like plastic surgery. This is all technically plastic surgery.

And they make your face turn away? No, filler's not plastic surgery.

You're right. It's not, but it's cosmetic What would you call it?

I don't know because the filler is nonsurgical. Botox is nonsurgical.

It's nonsurgical cosmetic surgery.

Kybella's nonsurgical cosmetic surgery. All I'm seeing is stuff about someone nicknamed Tiny getting plastic surgery on her face. How did it turn out nice? Elegant? It's fine. Hard to know.

We don't know what they look at. Are you talking about Tiny Harris's plastic surgery?

Tamika Tiny Harris is all I'm getting results for.

Yeah, me too. That's weird. Maybe it's not called that.

Sounds so scientific. I know. I'm shocked it's not called that.

It'd be so crazy if it wasn't called that. Anyway, so we shall see what happens. Tbd. Tbd on my face.

One When is that appointment? Tomorrow?

Tomorrow afternoon.

Okay.

Speaking of faces, this is for Camila Caballo. She has a beautiful face. She has a lovely face. We actually talk about being photogenic. She said she didn't really feel photogenic. And then we talked about having different sides of our faces that we like.

Yeah, she has a side. I do remember that.

She has a side she likes.

I have a side. You don't have a side, right?

I do think one side is preferred, but not so extreme. Yeah.

Yeah, I didn't say I don't know why, specifically in the episode, but my nose was broken in a fight, and it is curved. Yeah. Yeah. So one side does look much different than the other.

I think my left side is better. I think.

Yeah, I think. My right side is preferable.

Well, there you go.

There it is. There you have it.

Well, what was crazy? I'm nervous to say it, but none of this is negative. None of this is negative. So we hugged, we met, we hugged, and she's friends with Liz. This is before you got appearance. We were chatting. It wasn't a perfume, but I smelled her. Her pheromones, I had a smell. Oh, really? It was not negative, so that's why I want to be clear about that. I was like, What? I know that smell. And then some minutes into the interview, I pinpointed the smell. Okay. And it was from... A friend of mine had that exact same smell. I was like, Oh, it's this. And then I looked at her face, and she has the exact same face as that friend.

Interesting. Your friend, I know who you're talking about. She's of Italian descent, right? Yes. She's not Latina.

Yes. But their features are the same. Oh, wow. I guess their expressions, the way their face moves was the same, and then they had the same smell, and it was wild. I really was in my head about it for some minutes.

Well, I have this opinion that there's way fewer versions of humans than we want to acknowledge. I meet people all the time that are almost carbon copies of other people. And then I was also even thinking of this. I was watching a woman, in fact, this morning, after I dropped the kids off at school, I was watching her cross the street, and she had such a specific face and look on her face that I was like, I know what her personality is. I would bet my life on that I know what her personality is. And then I was thinking like, what direction does it go? Is it you have a face, you present to the world with this face, people treat you a certain way, it informs your I hate to say it, but I feel pretty confident that I can predict people's personality pretty good when I look at their face. I generally know what's coming.

Yeah.

And then you see all these copies of other people all over the place.

It's true, but sometimes it'll surprise you. Yes, of course. And then that's fun. I find that to be so fun when someone's personality does not match my- Preconceived notion.

That is fun. But I agree with you. But even take like, Zack Braff and I. We're not terribly dissimilar, even our personalities. That's true.

Yeah, interesting. I think you're right.

I should have gone out of the car and just said, Hi, how's it going? She went, Oh, what? I'm so sorry. I just wanted to chat with you for two seconds to confirm that you have the personality I think you had from looking at your face. No, I wouldn't describe a personality as negative or positive. I just knew what it was going to be.

And what did you think of it? We don't know her, so it's fine.

I'd have to look at her again to really remember all the ways I knew she was. She had this little dog, and the way she was walking across the street, I was like, she's not very friendly, and she's a little bit princessy, and she has a lot of products at home. She has so many products in her shower and stuff. Oh, okay. And there's some solitude. She's more of a solitary creature, and she likes to be in her apartment doing all these products and stuff. And she has this dog. I I could really see what- How old? 30s.

Oh, was it me?

No, no, no, no, it wasn't you.

I like products. I know what you mean, though.

You meet a big guy, a big blonde guy with big shoulders and a little jowly. You know, maybe just jowly. Does that make sense? Kind of. Chin is... You know. I'm like, oh, that guy is going to be so friendly. I can just tell. I know that guy is going to be friendly.

Oh, that's funny. I didn't- You didn't go there.

You're probably portraying a different- Jowl? Big guy than me. Yeah, with the soft chin. Like the other Kelsey, brother. I don't know when he looks like enough. He looks like that. Oh, he does. And is he friendly? Yeah. Maybe that big, robust, manly chin. I feel like I know what's coming.

But then this is the opposite of what we talked about last fact check with the podcast I was listening to and the voice and my idea was so wrong.

Well, but actually what's interesting is what we just talked about ding, ding, ding, is if you change the general outline of your face with some chin and jawline filler, there will potentially be a little bit of a mismatch. And then I'll be curious to see if your personality changes up with the- Chames.

Yeah. This is a social experiment.

It is. I almost need you to do it now to see if we observe- I wonder. Oh, yeah.

I saw someone like that not knowing it was him. Yeah, I have an idea of that person's personality, but it's not that they're friendly.

He's also wearing a football jersey, so that's a little... There's some built-in aggressiveness that you associate with the sport.

I think if I see that person, I assume they played football at some point.

You do? Yeah. What if they're wearing a peach-colored shirt?

Southern played football.

Oh, yeah, right. Southern, that is interesting. They wear They definitely wear more colors in the South. I noticed that.

Polos, polo shirts.

They love their polos and their khakis. Yeah, they do. The colorful shirts.

Yeah, they sure do.

Culture is hilarious. You think everything's objective, and it's just not. You think there's like... Yeah, right. But I mean, you feel like it. You go like... If I'm here in LA, I go like, Oh, that's goofy to wear a peach. And here it is. But it isn't innately goofy to wear a peach-colored shirt.

I agree. But also, I think LA is... One of the reasons I like it is I think you can wear whatever you want here. It does not matter. You can be so dressed up next to someone It's so casual. Everyone looks normal and fine. I like that about this city, and it's unique to this city.

Well, what I like even more specifically, and I have said this on here a few times, there's not a dress code for wealth. So there's not a built-in status dress code. That's what I like the very most. In Michigan, if you climb the socioeconomic ladder, you go to Polos, you go to khakis, and the brands of the polos and the khakis change. Then you go to... It's so prescriptive, and it is a marker of your status. And I don't like dressing that way. So I like living in a city where you don't have to wear a certain outfit.

Well, because actually, I think here, what's prized is having your own style, whatever that means, as long as it's you. And in some other places in the country, it's not that. It's like, yes, everyone needs to look the same. Then that shows a marker of where you are.

Yeah, I was even thinking, I was somewhere and I was on my high horse about just the concept. Oh, it was in India. Did I already say this? What? I was thinking about we were in India and I had walked behind the hotel and it was just this big trash heap all throughout the back of it. And I was just sitting there looking out and I was thinking about the fact that this is a palace that's very old. And I was thinking about the English being there. I was thinking about manners. And I was thinking, oh, my God, I think I understand for the first time why manners even exist. I think for you to morally feel okay about going to a place and subjugating a group people into doing basically slavery, you have to tell yourself you are higher on the hierarchy, but this is somehow natural and normal. And so you have to start really to finding a bunch of arbitrary things that are outward displays that you are, in fact, superior. We eat more civilized. We eat with our backup, and we have our hand on, and we use this. So I think all these customs The customs go up and up and up and up as you climb this status ladder.

And I think they're bizarre symbols to justify why they're different. They're more civilized.

Yeah, for sure. It's like they're proving it's innate.

Yeah, just like it's obvious that they're not civilized, and we are. You can't just say that if you're all wearing the same clothes and eating the same way, and there's really nothing to even point to. You've got to make up all this stuff to make yourself feel like, yeah, these people are like, A, they're happy to do this labor because that's what they would do anyways. They're 200 years behind us. So this thing we're giving them, which sucks for us, is still an improvement for them because we're different. And this is the proof of it. We have collared shirts with buttons, whatever all this stuff is. I think I used to just think of it as, Oh, it evolved because people had discretionary income. They wanted to display their status. And of course, that just evolved into more and more elaborate pageantry. But I think there's something a little more deeper in that, that it's also a justification for why you don't have to clean your house and someone else does, especially in a place where it's not black-white. Yes. If you can't ascribe race to it. In fact, I was listening to this professor talk about that slavery is not unique at all to the US and our history with it.

The only thing that's unique about it is that it was race organized. Generally, it was just a foreign group of people or Or it was a different religion. They were allowed to be enslaved. There are all these different ways that they're less human than you, and that really race is a new one, relatively new. In Egypt, they had slaves. Yeah. But they weren't different-colored people.

They were still Indigenous, too. They didn't bring anyone over.

They didn't bring anyone over. So they had to draw a different arbitrary line of why this group deserved to be doing all the labor, and this one didn't. So it had to be a religion or something.

Yeah, that's the cast system.

Yeah, I think it might even been in a cast document. I don't know. The Americans didn't need to do any other shit because they were just white. The explanation stopped there. We're white and we're or whatever evolved or whatever they were saying. They didn't need to have the level of detail and manners and pageantry. Does that make sense?

Yeah, but there's still manners here. The more wealthy you get, the more manners are expected, and especially in certain parts of the country.

Yeah, but do you think it's deeper in the South? I feel like manners are a bigger thing.

They're big in the South.

Yeah, they're really big in the South. And the way you talk to people is really big, too. It's like ma'am and Mr. And all these different things. I have to feel like those are a bit vestigal of that whole period.

Yeah, probably.

We have to display we're more civilized at all time, or we're going to start having to acknowledge, no, we're all just people. And then this is nuts.

I'm so, so on manners because- I hate them. Well, there are things I like about certain manners.

I think- What's something you like?

I think politeness is good.

Well, that's civil. But civilty. Yeah. I believe in civilty. But what should be worn at a dinner table is crazy. I agree. It doesn't mean... What are we talking about? What side silver wear is on? It's insanity.

I agree. I agree with all that.

Your hand, what you What hand you cut with, whether your napkins on your lap or it's on the table. Now, there's like- I get that. Should you be burping really loud?

Right.

No, but that's because it actually causes someone to lose their appetite around you because you're smelling food.

How do you feel about chewing with your mouth open or closed? Totally fine. Yeah, it doesn't bother me either.

No. And talking with your mouth, I don't care. Now, if you have shit falling out of your mouth while you're talking, that's an issue. But just the activity of the mouth moving like this while I'm tired.

We're eating. Yeah.

Because they were like, The natives chew like that. We're going to learn to chew with our mouth. It's so unnatural for us. No animal chews with its fucking mouth closed other than humans.

That's really true. Yeah.

They're like, Oh, look at these Indigenous people, they're chewing their mouth open. We're going to force ourselves to keep our lips closed while we chew. So it'll be totally unnatural, but we'll do it.

Yeah. Okay. I'm looking up common table manners. Okay. Chew with your mouth closed. Wait to eat. That is a manners thing. And I agree with that, or I abide by that anyway.

Well, what's interesting about this, I understand. Again, it seems like civility, but there's nothing I hate worse than when I'm someplace, my thing hasn't come and people are waiting to eat because of me. I'm like, eat. And they're like, no, it's so... And I'm like, no, I'm telling you, this is way worse for me. This favor you're doing me, I feel terrible no one's eating. You all got your food. It's just me that got it. We shouldn't all suffer because I didn't get mine. So we do reject that rule, too.

Well, I reject it, but I think it's fine to have the dance of waiting and then you saying, No, everyone eat. And then, Okay.

That's fine. That's like opening a door for someone.

I just think it's acknowledging your food hasn't come yet, and we'll do this together.

But again, I think it's getting confused about what the actual value of the activity is. The value is all sitting in a circle together. Now, whether four of the people are chewing and three aren't and they're waiting, I think people get distracted by what the value is. Like, no, we all eat at the same time. Why? The thing that's special is we've all gathered together and we're staring at each other in a circle.

I think part of it, though, is that it's actually to prevent someone from being done very early so that the other person doesn't then feel like, rushed to finish.

But again, why would anyone feel rushed to finish? This would be another crazy thing.

Well, I have Because I'm a pretty slow eat, or I used to be a pretty slow eater.

You feel people are clamoring to get up and leave the table?

Well, if they're finished with their food and 90% of my food left, I do think, Oh, I should get to move on.

No, okay. There's a manner I'll sign on, too. It's just like, you don't deserve Hurt one person at the table while they finish. You don't bounce and go, I'm going to watch TV. It's taking too long. Now, that to me is rude because you've left someone alone.

Oh, that's interesting. My family didn't have that. It was like, well, normally we didn't We didn't eat all at the same time. We didn't eat together. But if we did, on a weekday, yeah. Everyone could bounce the second they're done eating. On a weekday, yeah. Not now. That wouldn't happen now. Yeah. Because I think we care more about all talking. But when it was just like, let's just eat our food and be done, go back to whatever we were doing individually. Yeah.

Okay. So uncivilized. No wonder the Brits were there.

Exactly. Well, my dad does spill food out of his mouth all the time. Oh, God.

I wouldn't mind at all. But I don't want him to belch really loud and stinkly. I don't either. And farting at the table shouldn't be done.

No, but you've done it.

Yeah, of course. I paid for this place.

Oh, God. Okay. Do not stretch across the table. I stand behind that. What does that mean? I think it means don't- No, it means reach for something. Oh.

Because that's another thing I think it's a little crazy, like waiting forever for someone to pass you something that you can reach. Oh. That's a big no-no. I think you only need to do that if you can't reach it. No, I think... Here's one I would say that no. So there's someone to your right, and you're going to reach over their plate, but not over it. You're going to reach in front of it and pass their plate. I think in that case, that was rude. You were supposed to ask them, Could you pass me the green beans? Yeah. But fucking grab it. Yeah, watch yourself when you're doing it. It's like you've just met your family or something. Everyone's tiptoeing around.

This isn't for family.

No, this That was my stepdad who was like, hell-bent on the fucking thing.

He was a control freak.

Yeah, but that was pretty customary where I grew up.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I guess you're right.

Everyone was supposed to sit there and eat with good manners because it's practice for when you're out in the world. Right.

But I do think that is It's a goal. It is practice for when you're not with your family.

But again, it's insane.

I mean, yeah.

It's like people don't think, like as people know, I permit some swearing in the house. But they know they can't swear at school, and they're not I can explain to them, you're allowed to do this here and not there, and they get it. So I could tell them, hey, when you're at your buddy's house, don't reach across grandma to grab the mashed potatoes. It doesn't mean we have to practice that.

I also don't care about the reaching. Proper placement of the napkin. Always drink from a glass.

Yeah, right. Don't have a Coke can or a bottle of soda.

Oh, I see. I don't care about that. Melcarten.

Yeah, that was- A gallon of milk. A pitcher of Kool-Aid. And one guy's drinking a gallon of milk. I mean, their house is- Drinking out of the coffee pot. Anyone want coffee? Yeah, hand me that. And then they just drink out of the pot.

No, yeah. This says avoid reaching. So I think do not stretch across the table means don't lay on the table.

It can't be a rule. No one has to be told not to lay on the table.

I think some kids need to be told that. Elbows, that's a big one. Why? I know. I agree. I don't care.

I'm an insanity. It's a posture thing, probably.

But why do people care what people's posture is?

Also, yes, I don't care if you're bananas up at this. That's between you and your back and your chiropractor.

Oh, my God. Never blow on your food. I've never heard that. You have to. Sometimes it's too hot.

I heaven forbid, someone blows on their food.

I know. Anyway, I agree that this is silly, but I do care about politeness.

I'm not even sure I fully sign on to politeness. Really? Because if you go to Sweden and you look at it through their eyes, I agree with them. As well. It's insincere, it's pageantry, and it's not real. I told you, I met a kid that was a foreign exchange shooter in Georgia, and she was like, the amount of like, Hey, baby, how are you doing? What's your day? Have a great day. All this stuff.

That's not politeness.

Well, no, I think a lot of people would say that's being polite.

I think maybe. I mean, that's like Southern hospitality friendly. But politeness is like, Excuse me.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Please. Yeah. That feels nice. I like that. Absolutely. I love that. Just respect. But yeah, over friendliness, no, I'm not for that either. Or like, fake friendliness. Yeah. Okay. So a couple of facts for her. Rations in Cuba. The vast Most majority of Cuban families rely for their food intake on the Libreta de Abbas de Cimiento, which literally means Supplies Booklet, Distribution System, and stated on March 12, 1962. The system established Which is the rations each person is allowed to buy through the system and the frequency of supplies.

He was a fascinating place to go to.

Yeah, you went there.

I went there. It's a beautiful place. The people are radical. The food is for sure. But what is also obvious is the moment they went to communism, every single bit of maintenance stopped. It's just like they had money in the bank that capitalism built, and then they just drew from it every day for 70 years. Every building's crumbled. The cars have not been updated. You just see it's so physical and observable.

What was she shooting there again?

House of Lies.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Adaptive coping versus maladaptive coping. This came up a few times. Adaptive coping characterizes a person who deals with stressors through personal growth, optimism, solution-focused actions, creativity, and flexibility. Different coping approaches, problem solving, reaching out for support, changing our expectations to better fit the situation, Regulating stress-related emotions, taking actions to reduce stress, such as breathing techniques, changing the way we think about the stressor. Okay. Now, maladaptive coping strategies may be more likely to be in the toolbox if there are overwhelming stressors or trauma, or if there was maltreatment, neglect during childhood or exposure to emotional invalidation. These strategies provide temporary relief, but they don't address the problem.

Cigarettes, booze, drugs, sex, food.

Pretty much. Substance use, rumination, physical escape, mental escape through disassociation, numbing, excessive daydreaming, procrastination, self-injury, binge eating, risk-taking behavior, blame, self-blame, and self-criticism, avoidance, and safety behaviors. Behaviors that temporarily relieve anxiety but actually reinforce the perception that the stressor is a threat.

Maladaptive.

Maladaptive. Okay. Havana, you said has the streams of a solo female artist. That made me want to look up... Good song. Want to look up the most streamed songs on Spotify. Okay. Number one, Of all time.

Mm-hmm.

Blinding Lights by the Weekend is number one. Streams.

I don't know if I know that song. Blinding Lights.

You just added a stream.

You've heard it.

I think I thought this was a British singer.

Oh, yeah.

He's not Canadian, is That's Drake.

Drake is Canadian, yeah.

Have you been following Drake and Kendrick Lamar in a big dust-up? No. What's happening? They're both writing songs about each other.

Oh, boy.

It's overtaken. It's a beef. Yeah.

Okay, number two is Shape of You, Ed Sheeran. Friend of the Pot. Yeah. Three is Someone You Loved by Louis Capaldi.

Vincent Guraldi? Vincent Guraldi, Peanuts? What's it called?

Someone You Loved.

Someone You Loved by Louis Oh, yeah. I need somebody to... She's...

Oh, I love this song. This song is number three most stream songs of all time? I have a guess why.

I want to know. I guess I can't get away and don't go the path and all the day bleeds. It's a nightfall in the night.

Is it a remake?

Well, that's a good question. But here's my theory on why it's third. Okay. Because if you love a dance song, you listen to it twice and you dance to it, then you move on to another dance song. When you're super sad and the song's hitting the right note, Yes. You hit it repeat and you listen to it like 350 times. Totally.

Yes. Agreed. Four is Sunflower from Spider-Man: Into the Universe.

Is that Coldplay?

No, it's Post Malone. And Swayly.

Are you sure about that? No.

No, I'm not. Then Starboy by The Weekend and Daft Punk.

Weekend's big. I don't know anything about The Weekend. Really?

Yeah.

Is he the one who had the HBO show that was- Yeah. Yeah. Idle? Yeah.

Six is As It Was by Harry Stiles. Seven, One Dance, Drake, Whizz-Kid, and Kyla.

Eight, This now sounds like you're hosting the billboard charts. You do a lot of different hosting gigs. I do. You were doing best cinematographer. No, you were doing best score for the Academy Awards recently. Yes.

Hans Zimmer.

Yes, Hans Zimmer. But now you're doing billboards. Like Grammys? Grammys. This feels more billboards, to be honest with you.

I have to work on it to get to a Grammy status. Okay, eight is Stay with Justin Bieber, nine, Dance Monkey, Tones and I, and 10 Believer, Imagine Dragons. I'll just do 10, but I have 100 on here. I thought that was... I was surprised.

By that list? Yeah.

I don't know what I was Was there any women on there? There's no Taylor. Was there any women?

No. None.

I don't see. This is interesting because the first female solo artist I see on here is Dua Lippa. Don't start now. That makes sense.

Billy Eilish, 17?

With- The I see 19, but that's with Khaled. Yeah, with Khaled. Dua Lippa is the first I see alone, solo. And that's at 22. I don't see Havana.

No, that was of that year.

Oh, of that year?

Yeah, I said that when I said it. It was of that year. 2018?

Okay. I didn't. It wasn't It's clear to me that that's what you meant. I thought of all time.

Oh, no, no, no. It was of that year.

Okay. Oh, you said you have an eight-year-old and an eleven-year-old.

I did. Yeah.

You have a nine-year-old and an eleven-year-old. Yeah, that's fine.

It's weird when they're a year apart. Yeah. Between December and April, they were nine and 10. So weird. That feels weird. I don't know why I said eight.

Well, whatever. You just made a mistake.

You remember when my dad used to do? He was always off by a year or two.

He made you older, though, right?

He made me younger. Oh, really? Which is why it was so funny because I already looked way too big for my real age. And then he would hit him with the fact that he was like, Can you believe he's only 11? I was like, 13. I was like, 5, 11. Oh my God. And I think people would be concerned that I had acromagaly or something.

Yeah, sure.

Sure. This little guy's only eight. I'm smoking a cigarette with a mustache.

Well, that's it for Camila.

She was so fun.

Yeah, She was.

Genuine fan of the show, which makes it so fun for us.

It really does. It's so flattering.

It is. It's the dream I had because when you go to Stern, Stern has this upper hand where it's like, anyone that goes there, they love the show. They want to do good on the show. I was excited that was my time on Stern. Yeah. And for a handful of the guests we've had, it's that. And I love being on that side of it. Stern must really enjoy that.

I hope so. He should. Yeah. He should. It's a big feather in his camp. Something happened on Connections that I wanted to bring up. I don't think it was a wink, but- A side eye? There was something weird Because did we say something about Spanish? No.

I mean, that's a big umbrella.

When we were talking about Connections in Wina to tell us.

No. Okay. I think that there was Spanish pronouns yesterday.

Yeah, but I thought maybe before that we had mentioned when we were going through be really obvious. Say this.

Do our initials. We didn't say that, but that would have been a good one.

Yeah. I mean, today- MLP.

There was a car. Mlp, DRF. Yes. I hated it.

I was proud of myself. I got that one first.

I hated it because I've been waiting for a car thing. I know. And then it was a dyslexia car thing.

I know. She might have been winking.

That was a side eye. She mad dog.

Or one of these.

Oh, yeah. Over it.

She's over it. Oh, gosh. All right. Well, that's it. I love you.

Love you.