Welcome, welcome. Welcome to armchair expert. I'm Dax shepherd, and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hello. Hello. I think this actor is one of the most beautiful actors alive. I would imagine a lot of people like myself probably discovered Coleman on euphoria, where he was, what's her name on Euphoria Rue. Ru Ru's, like, kind of sponsor in AA. Yeah.

He's incredible.

Oh, they had the most beautiful scenes in those in the diner, which we talk about. Yeah, he stole my heart in that. And then he's just continued. Every time he pops up, I'm just blown away by him. He is an Academy Award nominated actor. He's a playwright and a director. And you've seen him in the color purple, fear of the Walking Dead, Zola, euphoria Ruslin. And now he has a new movie called Sing Sing, which is really, really, really special. It's such a cool movie, and as you'll learn, many of the casts are people that are really involved in the true story behind this movie. Sing Sing Sing. It's just outstanding. And he's so wonderful. Sparkly and kind and lovely. Please enjoy Colman Domingo. Oh, and before we get into the episode, we have a fun opportunity if you would like to go see Sing Sing. This is a rare occurrence where 824 offered us anyone that listened to the episode and got intrigued that would want to go see the movie for free, you can because you're an armchair. So we're going to do a story, and in the story there'll be a link that you can follow.

If you want to go get free tickets to see Sing Sing, do it. Or in our show description. Wondry subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. What?

Hey, how you doing? What an entrance.

Hi.

How you doing, man?

I've been practicing.

How are you?

Please come up.

How's it going?

How are you? Welcome.

How you doing?

Great to meet you.

Good to meet you.

Yeah. What a special dude you are.

Oh, thanks, man.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know that I've been so moved by an actor a long time.

Thank you.

Hi, Monty.

Hi.

What a dazzling outfit here.

Oh, thanks.

You know, I almost wore some short shorts myself, and now I'm kind of regretting. We could have really bonded.

I was in jeans and I was like, you know what?

I'm gonna drop down to shorts. Shorts.

I'm sitting in an attic with two lovely people. It's hot as I be. Chill out there. Exactly. You chose some leg today. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Are those just your legs or are we working on them? Cause I destroy mine to get them to look almost as good as yours. I got a bad hunch yours just look like that.

Dude, I have terrible legs.

No, no, no, no. I'm seeing a lot of striation on the quadriceps. Monty, are those good or bad legs?

They're great legs.

Are they really? They're like these long. You know? Listen, in my DNA, I have some nigerian blood. I think it's nigerian. That's what it is, you know? So you need some of that. Dex. I don't know what percentage you mix.

I was very disappointed in my 23 andme. I got nothing from Africa.

What did you get?

Oh, man. A bunch of fucking british and Spanish.

He has no dark colors.

I know.

Not even, like, nothing. Italy.

Exactly. I don't even have any Mediterranean.

No, none of the Mediterranean. No. You're like, white white.

No. Melanin? None.

None. Okay, cool.

Yeah, no, it's not cool. I grew up in Detroit. It looked good. I felt left out. I mean, sincerely. There's this thing, the Babalo boat. You ever heard of Babalo island in Detroit?

No.

We had this weird little theme park on an island in between Canada and Detroit, and you had to take a boat there. And it was one of the rare situations where all the black and white people were together, because everyone goes to Babo island. And I remember as a kid watching, I was like, all the black folks are dancing on the morning ride there. There was, like, music. I never saw white people dance unless they were fucking hammered in shit face people dances and don't look as good.

It's not as sexy.

No, it's a life.

Affirmative. There's a history of people of color and dance and why we dance, and to find life, you know? So I think it's all there, which is why I'm always good for a good dance.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, too, grew up and loved to dance like crazy, but I just remember thinking, like, there's something there that I want, that we don't seem to have, and it's this living out loud fun. It just looked very attractive to me.

Yeah, that's, like cultural, right. I feel like it's the way we're raised, you know? I grew up in inner city west Philadelphia. Talk about expressive people. They walk down the street with bravado and style, and everything is external. But we come from very modest backgrounds. Sure. So it's like the way you find your way in the world and like, the way you amplify is through the way you walk, the way you dance, the way you dress. So I feel like all of that, I'm not showing any of that today. I am showing leg.

But I'm not giving you the full monty.

The full monty of it. All the shorts are short. I could give you the full Monty.

Let's just see how this goes. Maybe you'll spread out a little bit and we'll see what's cracking down there. I'm going to add a layer to it now. This is the part I bond deeply with folks from Detroit, which is, I think, also in a world where there's a lot of trauma and a lot of low lows. When the sun's out and the little bit of joy peeks in, you fucking tackle it. I think that's like part of the cycle.

It is.

For me, it's this kind of swinging pendulum of like, oh, God, police are here. People are leaving in handcuffs. People are bleeding. Fuck it, sunny, we're swimming. Let's go. When it comes, you need it and you grab it and you go all the way with it. I think that's also in the mix.

That's also in the mix of, like, you're saying places like Detroit. I also say Philly, Baltimore, DC. I feel like it's filled with people who are the underdogs. No one's checking for these people from these places. But I think we thrive and survive. I mean, the underdog, like, oh, don't count me out. Cause I'm like, I'm a warrior. Yeah, because you're not thinking about me. And I'm gonna keep rising and keep rising like Detroit. Detroit has been rising for years, but also it has a stigma on it. I love going to Detroit. Detroit is one of my favorite places.

Well, it's definitely had all kinds of phases. I was living down there in 93 when every building was condemned. Now I was just down there. There's fucking farmers markets.

Whole foods.

Exactly. I did not think that was coming. I was one of the people. I don't know, guys, I think that's a wrap on Detroit 93. Page one rewrite. We need a page one. Throw up everything you've written so far. Yeah, you're one of four and you're the third.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So who's above you?

My older brother Rick. He's Derek Domingo and then Avery Domingo is my sister. And then my younger brother who's Philip Bowles, who is my mother and my.

Stepfather okay, so an older brother, an older sister. A younger brother. What was your older brother like? What was his vibe and how much older?

He's got me by nine years. Significant. Yeah. He was cool. He and my sister, they were the coolest kids on the block. They looked good. They were athletic, tough. Not tough. Very popular. My older brother in particular was very much like. How can I say this? He wore. I'm thinking of him in, like, in the seventies.

He's born in 60.

Yeah, exactly. So I'm thinking of him wearing, like, gabardine trousers and being sexy and a ladies man. Everybody loved him. He did gymnastics. He was a painter. Rick was very, very popular.

Perfect name, too, for that guy. Rick.

Cool guy. Everybody loved him.

Slick Rick.

My sister was the toughest one, actually. Cause she was a tomboy. She was the only girl in the family. She was tough. I would actually get her to, like, beat up dudes for.

Yes, because I know from your story and just reading about you, you're shy. You have a lisp. You're in Philly.

Yeah, I was messed up.

I'm worried about you.

Listen, I was worried about me. I was the bookish kid. I wasn't a cool kid. I was very shy. I stayed in the library. I did everything that led to you possibly getting beat up. I love books and reading, and I was a teacher's pet because I did my homework. And I loved my teachers because they were the smartest people in the world.

They were nice to you.

They were very nice to me. But then I felt kids were looking at me like I was a target, to be honest. All through, even up until high school, I was always known as being very shy and very quiet. And people were like, oh, did you know you were extroverted and an actor? Not at all. People knew me as I was in the library. I was also in the school newspaper. I didn't do plays. I wasn't with the cool kids. Cause also I felt like I went to a school. Actually, I went to school with Will Smith.

No kidding. In similar is in Philadelphia.

Yeah, he's one year above, but we went to high school together.

Nuh uh. And do you remember him?

Yeah, I do. He dated a friend of mine, Gina Cooper, when he was in school.

Was she hot as.

She was totally hot. She was unbelievable.

Good. He's always been crushing. Comforting.

Exactly. So there were the cool kids that went to the Wynn ballroom and saw Jazzy Jeff and will Smith perform. And all this is in high school. They were actually starting to do things. Middle class families, you know, upper middle class. And I was one of the kids that cut the bus.

Well, hold on. You got about nine strikes against you at this point.

I told you I was messed up. Everything about this man sitting across from you is survival. And it started really, it's just like, how to negotiate and navigate.

Were you trying to be invisible? Yeah.

There's a picture of me in my overbrook high school yearbook. When I look at it and I go through yearbook, people are looking through. Oh, my gosh. And they see me. I have a big sweater on. My shoulders are hunched, and I have glasses on. I look like I'm trying to fade away.

You're a CIA operative trying to blend in.

But I was an observer. I realize now that that was part of my superpower. I watched everything, and I watched human behavior, and I watched how cool kids operated. I watch how the nerds operated.

Yeah, you're never blinded by being on the inside of it. You're actually constantly on the outside, objectively looking at the math of it and how this works. And that person says this, and they respond this way.

You're looking at all these things outside of your own experience, because you're like, I wish I had some of these qualities. So then I had more to build on. By the time I got to college at Temple University, I became more extroverted. It was an opportunity to become a different person, and I started to work out. Cause I was always super thin. No kind of body. Again, another strike. This is a very sad story, isn't it, Dax? Yeah.

Yeah. Like, if you're Will Smith, it's like, let me get this straight. You came out the gates, you crushed. You never took the gate.

He was from a middle class family. He had his own challenges, of course.

Yeah. I think his family life was a little rough.

Was it obvious, though, even back then? Oh, he's a star.

Oh, he was. I didn't know, like, he was gonna be an actor. I knew him as a rapper. He and jazzy Jeff, they were like the cool kids, and all the cool kids wouldn't follow them to the wim ballroom, and they performed. I wasn't invited because I was not a cool kid, and I couldn't even afford it.

Hall and Oates are also from Philadelphia. Darrell Hall's also went in singing contests around this era. Do you have any awareness of Daryl hall at that time?

Awareness? Yeah. Cause he was the coolest.

They called them blue eyed soul.

Absolutely. There's so much soul that comes from Philly, Philadelphia, international records, and you had american bandstand that started there.

Yeah. Not far off that you're my brother's age. You're 69, right? November 16.

I was gonna say I'm not 69 years old. We good in your research, zachs?

By the way, that's happened a few times lately. Because, bad news. You and I are approaching our birth year as ages. I mean, that ain't too far.

That's kind of wild. Wait, how old are you?

I was born in 75. I'm 49.

Okay, cool.

You have a ways to go.

I do. But we were just interviewing someone, and I said my birth year, and they were like, you're not 75. But even the notion that that would get cloudy, which is what just happened, I said, you're 69, meaning you're born in 69. Right.

But let me tell you something. Has anybody told you about how good it's gonna feel when you're 50?

How's that happen? I read someone's account of kind of the storms have passed. That's all I've heard. Do you love 50?

Listen, I wanna just educate me so you win on this, okay?

Yeah.

When I was a kid, and probably that awkward kid that was trying not to get beat up, I always thought I'd be my best. When I was about 40, I was really turned on by older people. That sounds weird. I don't mean turned on.

No, no, I got you.

But I thought that I'd be better when I was 40. It was so awkward. And I was looking and I thought older people had all the things figured out. Then I got to 40, and I'm like, forty's cool. But then I got to 50, and now I'm at 54. And nobody tells you the 50. You feel like I'm rocking this shit. 50 feels good. It feels like, you know, some shit. Feels like you can say no to some shit. You really do know yourself. You know, this operating system now you're actually clear about your choices, about your time, about your body and what you need. What you don't need. Some woman I did this tour of a plantation with last year. She told me the most fascinating thing, and I think that I've approached this earlier than she said I would. She said, so how old are you? I said, I'm 50. Whatever, 53 at the time. She said, oh, you're in your storytelling season. She said, for a long time, you're telling stories. She said, when you get to my age, about 60, you move into your truth telling season. And I was like, what's that?

She says, if someone says, hey, do you want to do that. You just say no. And I said, with no qualifiers, with no butt. She said, no.

You just.

No people pleasing. That's it. You stop the people pleasing.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's more being very clear. And she didn't see it in this callous way. Like, you can't be concerned with other people's feelings. But you're like, that's basically it.

Last night, Monica and I had a debate for 35 minutes. It's hypothetical. Like, what if David Letterman called me, said, I want you to come over for. I worship him. We want you to come over for dinner. I'm gonna dress up. She's like, will you dress up? And I said, absolutely not. I don't like to dress up.

That's just truth telling season.

Yeah.

I'm not comfortable in a suit. I wanna enjoy myself at his house in a suit. And she said, well, what if he's offended? And I was like, I mean, that's on him. That's on him.

Dude, I'm with Monica. All right, so I'm gonna have to co sign that.

Yeah.

Why do you think he has to dress up, though?

Okay. Okay. Oh, God.

Let's unpack this.

But she's 36.

You're still.

I'm sorry. She was born in 36.

Well, okay. It's a longer premise. It got thwarted by the clothes. But what I was actually trying to ask similarly. Cause Dax has a very specific food regimen. Cause he has arthritis. He can't eat gluten. He can't eat garlic. There's a lot of things. And I said, what if Letterman invites you to dinner and he cooks and.

There'S gluten in it?

Well, the whole thing's a mess. It's a garlic gluten.

It's a garlic bread party.

Okay, what do you do?

Yeah. I was like, do you just eat some? Because he made it and he invited you over and he put all this thought and time and energy in. What do you do? And he said, he won't eat it. And I was shocked.

Well, no, listen, Monica, I think you have to tell him because you have so many dietary restrictions. You have to set up the room.

Absolutely. I go, God, I see you've worked so hard on this meal. It looks delicious, and I would love to eat it, but I'm gonna learn to garlic, and I'm allergic to this, and tomorrow my wrists won't work.

And all people go like, fuck you. Get out.

Of my house. You're supposed to be allergic to my foot in your ass. How about that, young man? Exactly.

How about eat that shit and get the fuck out? Basically, yeah. How do you gotta set it up, though?

Well, exactly. So it took him a minute to get to that speech originally. It was just, no, I would never, I would never.

Well, my thought was, no, I will not harm myself to make someone else happy. I'm not gonna, like, give myself full and joints, which I can.

Now let me get back to clothing, though. So you're already not gonna eat the man's food?

Yeah, exactly.

And you're gonna just show up in, like, a t shirt and some booty shorts. What are you doing?

Well, over to my side is what it sounds.

You added booty shorts? I've got to evaluate his comfort level with seeing me in booty shorts.

What if he's like, I need you to arrive in booty shorts?

No problem. I got. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Like, you can objectify me. Just don't make me uncomfortable.

Don't make me unwell.

I told Monica, I was like, I get somewhere with a suit, I'm like, I'm wearing a jacket. No one would go somewhere to eat and keep their fucking coat on. But that is what a suit is. You already have a shirt on, but now you're also wearing a coat. And there's a button. Do I have it on? Do I sling it over my fucking chair? No one else is doing that.

So wait, you don't fuck with suits?

I have to. Occasionally I go to premieres. Occasionally I gotta go to events that require them for sure.

I was just wondering your disdain for suits.

Like, in the level. I'll wear them when I have to, but not socially. As a requirement of our friendship, as a requirement of my job and my profession.

Yeah, I actually don't think that dinners. Unless they say, please dress with me.

Oh, that was part of it. Well, sort of. He says a lot of hypothetical. He says, I'm gonna dress up. Everyone's gonna dress up. No pressure. He's being nice about it.

Great. No pressure.

Well, the moment they said no pressure. That's the qualifier, though.

Yeah, but if everyone's doing it, yo.

He said no pressure.

That's where it gets into the actual real stuff between Monica and I, which is Monica grew up other in Georgia. I did not. I don't mind sticking out.

I think that is something. Cause she and I, people are looking.

To say, you don't belong there.

Absolutely. You have to actually show them clothing. And I talk about this all the time. Style. People make lots of comments on the way I dress. And it's all very conscious behavior, because I know I'm being watched even more. So I need to be more meticulous in the storytelling that I'm doing with clothes.

And it's cool if you love clothes. Like, Monica loves clothes. She loves shopping. She loves style. She reads the stuff. That's awesome. My thing's cars. You're never gonna see me show up in a fucking car. That's not stylish.

Yeah.

You'll always see me get out of something with 700 hp, period. I ain't getting on anything with less power.

Right.

So that's just my thing.

Yeah.

Wait, let's get into this, but let's.

Go really quick back. Yes. Being excluded. People are standing in line to exclude you two. They weren't seeing anybody to exclude me. I have my own story that I was white trash, and I'm excluded from high society and people with money. And so, weirdly, now the tattoos, and now I wear t shirts, and I'm checking in in the four seasons. I love it. It's kind of a fuck you. Oh, guess what? I am here. Cause I have this credit card in my hand. Tough shit. So I've gone even a step, and I get my own perverse joy out of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm here. Cause guess what? Sad news. I have this credit card.

You know what's wild, though? I feel like it works differently here in the states than it does abroad. I just came from a long trip abroad where I did notice that the way I dress, I mean, they're still very old school in their thinking, but as a black man walking into any five star institution, they have a whole idea about you. And here you can walk in with tattoos, whatever way, and people are like, no, you got money, you stay here.

Money's the thing.

Money's the thing. Because that's America. But you go to Europe, and they're judging you. So I had to dress up so they can and understand the story walking in.

And that's the actual kernel of why I reject the whole thing. Cause I do think the entire thing is based. Its origin story is we're noble. We don't work. You work. How do you know I'm noble and you have to work well? Cause I have these clothes. Fuck.

That doesn't really mean anything. It's just drag.

The origin premise of it, I object to.

Yeah, I get it.

But I don't need to be that deep either. I can also step back and go, like, I don't need to have that many issues about all this. Mostly, I just am comfortable. And I think if I'm gonna be a guest at your place, you would want me to be. I want you to be comfortable. You wanna fucking wear a speedo at dinner? Come over.

It's funny, I have different levels when I have dinner parties. If I'm cooking dinner for like 6 hours and it's a beautiful french meal and I'm like, you know what, actually I'm gonna say I would love for you to dress up tonight.

See, I would say that, yeah.

And I think that's fine.

People come over my house and sweats and shit. I'm like, I've been in the kitchen for 6 hours. You could put on some fucking pants.

That's how I sort of feel because also I cook a lot too. I do a lot of dinner parties. So I think on the other side of it, I mean, Dex cooks really good spaghetti and he does throw spaghetti.

Parties and you can eat it in the nude. I don't give a fuck. Loinclaw.

But as someone who cooks a lot and it's hard and sort of annoying, but great and fun and it's a lot of like love you put into it for someone to come and then not eat it. I was saying that would hurt my feelings, to be honest.

I do side eye people. If I've made a meal, I think I make amazing meals and there's lots of veggies and things like that. And for some reason a lot of people still don't eat a lot of veggies, which annoys me. But anyway, I'll put a lot of veggies. It could be a simple fish, it could be a simple chicken or something, but pretty simple because I'm cooking dinner for like ten people. When I look over and see a plate that's like halfway eaten, I'm like, fuck's your problem? I know I am. I can't even help myself. You could try it, right? You know, or like they're pushing all the tomatoes off to the side and everything. Cause you know, honestly, listen, me and my husband just came from Europe. We don't eat a lot of cheese, we don't eat a lot of sugar, stuff like that. But like go to France, you're like, you know, we have cream. You're like, I'll take it. Yeah, I'm not gonna bitch.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't oat milk. You don't have almond milk. No. You have what they're serving and then your stomach is fucked up. But you know what? You're miserable and you're farting.

But you know what?

Sorry.

You're not making love for the next exact price you put.

Diarrhea abroad is not bad, though, because you do drop a good five pounds.

Yeah, well, that's true.

You gotta get those things moving.

Average.

Okay. But I do think this is sort of because we have had to say, okay, I'm just gonna suck this up a lot in life. Things that feel wrong or bad, it's just like, well, this is just the way it is, so I'm gonna have to deal with it. You're very wise. So I wanna loop you into something that's going on because it has to do with fashion, what we just talked about. So people are very mad at me right now. What'd you do on the comments? Because I was talking basically about luxury fashion. I was talking about Hermes.

Sorry.

And I talk about the row and I talk about the clothes I picked, which is the exact same as the car or checking into the four Seasons is I can have this now. And so I'm going to. And I didn't have it.

What's the comments?

I'm unrelatable now because I talk about this type of thing. Dax's bus is more relatable.

Don't you stay at a motel six to be, like, relatable?

I don't know. But it's a change they've seen.

What did it used to be? I want to know what the story.

Used to be to them. I guess I didn't.

I can sum it up really quick. Monica started as a babysitter seven, eight years ago. And she's building that big house across the street from us.

Fuck. Yes.

Right? So it's great.

Congratulations.

Now, what is relevant is, yeah, I have stuff I choose not to talk about. A lot of the stuff I have. That's pretty crazy.

But you do, though. Literally, most of that episode was talking about your bus. What's getting called out is my conversation about the bag.

What did you say about the bag.

That you just learned about Hermes? I listened to this podcast. It's very interesting. And, yeah, I want 115 thousand dollars bag. It's insane.

And why do you want the bag?

I want the bag because you have to be invited to have it. And I was never the person invited to have it.

So you want to have the bag as a status symbol or do you want the bag because you like the architecture of the bag?

Well, I do think the craftsmanship is incredible.

Okay, cool.

I don't think it's a status symbol as much as a what I feel like, therapist.

Right now, I'm just like, so why do you want that?

I know we love it. Generally, we're trying to do the same thing to the guests. But this is a nice reversal.

Well, it's nice to get your take on this because my guest, I don't know is that you could maybe relate in the same way you can relate to walking into a place where originally you would have been fully side eyed. I'm like, why are you here? And I still feel that when I walk into places like, what's this little girl doing here? And then when I take the bag off the shelf and I say, I'm gonna buy this. That feels powerful.

I totally understand. The thing that I really understand as I've downloaded what you're saying, there's two things. One is, now that I could afford certain things, I actually don't want it anymore.

Sure.

Which is wild. I used to walk by this place and wish I could buy things in here. And I walk in, I'm like, it's not my vibe anymore. It's funny. I've become a bit more simple in what I need, actually. I think the other stuff that I thought I needed was because I didn't have access or agency. And I felt like it would make me feel like I made it or I did something or I'm making money. But now I'm wearing just simple converse.

We're both in converse. I want to point out a little.

Simple fruit alum t shirt.

I don't know.

But before I was like, oh, no, I really need that $300 t shirt now. I don't. But I have been known if I'll go into a place that feels like that, they're almost questioning that I'm there. I've actually bought things out of spite.

That's how I. Exactly.

You know what? No, I'll take that bag. I don't even make a big decision. I'm like, oh, you know, I like that bag. I'll take that. And they're like, so surprised it's happening that quickly too. And I'm like, yeah. Do you have espresso? Do you have champagne? I'll take all of it.

I wanna go up. I wanna go down. Lock that up.

Exactly. I'm gonna sit down and have you run around hundred percent. Because I'm paying for the whole experience. Maybe there's something that I think I need to do not only for myself but also for other people to look like me. So we're seen differently, I think going.

To join the chat, which is yes. You were previously looking for external things to confirm that you were worthy and valuable, but then you gave that to yourself through your work.

Yes.

And so that hole got filled by something substantive. And so the other stuff's just not as shiny.

It really is.

It's fine. I have a very similar thing. Like, I coveted everything. I grew up broke. And for the last couple years, I've kind of stopped buying stuff. I don't really care. I don't want anything. Christmas.

I like experiences. I'll spend a lot of money on a great experience. And so I'm that person. I'll sit here and talk about Amman hotels til you blow in the face.

You throw up.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean?

And people are like, wow, you'll spend that much money on a hotel? I'm like, absolutely, yes. Because I feel like that's taking care of myself and I've worked hard for that. I support you saying, I mean, if this is something that you desire now, isn't this America where you're supposed to want to aspire?

That's what I thought.

There's a paradox afoot. But they are everywhere, and that is reality. Which is, yes, we are a country that the american dream is. You can make anything out of yourself and accomplished great things. We also hate rich people.

That's true. The moment you become a billionaire, suddenly you're, like, evil.

Yes, exactly. You're a monster. While I use your product, I'm grateful you invented. I'm also mad at you. You made money from doing it. It's all confusing, isn't it wild?

It is.

But it is the paradox that is the reality. And you just decide whether you want to be conscious of it or not. If you don't care, then you live with the outcome of that. And if you do care, then you adjust.

I think it's important I naturally do it. And maybe it's my relationship to social media. I don't read a lot of the comments. I never post something, put something out, a point of view, a slice of life. And I don't read the comments.

It's almost not your business.

It isn't. Of course. We all do it. Every so often I'll scroll down Twitter and one person say something and you're like, why are they being mean to me? You go to their whole thing and they got like 25 followers and they're mean to everybody. Cause they wanna make noise. And I feel like they're upset with their own lives, too. How can you find joy for someone else? I'm just not someone who's gonna post something mean about somebody, especially somebody that I don't know.

I'm not either, but I was. Your story is three x mine. But what felt to me like an attorney. I was here for nine years before I successfully got one of the auditions I went on.

Right?

I couldn't do it. And in that nine years, if you would have bumped into me, I would have talked shit on everyone. I told you, all these actors that are working, that they don't deserve it, that that guy's not a good actor, and this person's not funny. And, yeah, I was attacking people, and I was insecure, and I was fearful I wasn't gonna make it. And guess what? My personality reflected that. At times, I'm not proud of who I was. But then as I got fulfilled, guess what? I couldn't listen. Ten actors I think are bad anymore. I just don't even notice. I notice great actors, and I'll probably talk about that, but I'm not looking for who I think doesn't deserve to be here anymore because I got here, and so I'm good. And if anyone else gets here, even if it's by accident, good for them, like, it ain't taken away from me. So I have the luxury and the privilege to be kind of nice because my life worked out pretty good.

Now, that brings me to another topic. Kindness. I've always believed, and I think it's something that my family gave me if they've given me nothing else, is the gift of understanding kindness and how to be kind to people and how to look after people, how to speak well of people. So maybe it's a part of a culture that I just don't understand. Cause I've never been that way as an actor. Even when I was not successful, even if I felt like I was on the outside, I was like, you know, well, someday that'll be me. But also, I want to support people who are on the inside and who are doing things.

And when you lost roles to certain people and you saw their performance, you weren't overly critical of it.

Never. But it's funny. Cause honestly, I get dudes left and right who are just like, you know, I was up for that role. I can sit in a room with someone who. I know that role was given to you. Cause it was offered me, but I didn't. But they will never know that. Cause they don't need to know that. Yeah, but I feel like I get a lot of dudes. It's more them than me. I never felt like I'm in competition with anybody. I'm in competition with myself.

Yeah, I've lost a role to a couple different people where I ended up having the privilege of meeting them and going like, oh, my God, I saw it. Thank God they hired you. You're so much better than I was capable of being in it at the time. I was like, are you fucking kidding? You're hiring that guy? I was like, yeah. Good job, guys. You did the right, okay, but I want to go through your story. That was a fun, fun detour. You go to temple journalism. I'm just going to throw this out. I think this is really weird. Ding, ding, ding. So yesterday we interviewed Marian Jones. Remember? Yeah. Belize mother went to school for journalism. You got a Belize father, and you went to temple for journalism.

Oh, wow.

Is that back to back days?

Something in the chair. Belize Central American is in the chair.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. What's up, guys? It's your girl Kiki. And my podcast is back with a new season.

And let me tell you, it's too good.

And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest. Okay?

Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation. And I don't mean just friends. I mean the likes of Amy Poehler.

Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox. The list goes on.

So follow, watch, and listen to baby. This is Kiki Palmer on the wondery.

App or wherever you get your podcast gas. Okay, so obviously, you're not going to temple to act. You're going there to be a journalist.

Yeah.

You take as an elective an acting class. And is it an immediate spark?

No. My mom told me to take. Cause I was taking matriculating classes and everything had to do with journalism. She said, but also, you got to take something for fun. I remember when I was a kid, I went to this summer program, and I had a couple acting classes. I remember I had a great time with that. And I thought, well, maybe I'll do that because it'll help get me out of my shell again. I was very shy in high school, so I was like, I need a class. Maybe this will be fun. And I took it. It felt so good. It felt so connected. I love the research of it all. I love the study of it. I love imagining and what it would do to my imagination. And then towards the end of the semester, my teacher, Chris, he pulled me and this other young woman aside, I wish I knew her name. Cause we would rock it in class. He said, hey, have you two ever thought about a career as an actor? And we both looked at, like, no. She smiled. I think she was like, oh, I thought about it.

And I was like, no. Like, I didn't know what that was. A career as an actor. I don't know how people did that.

There was a rapper in my high school.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But being an actor, I was like, I don't know. He said, I think you're very talented. He actually used the word, I think you're gifted. And he said, I'd be very curious if you follow the path.

What's so sweet is I've heard you talk about this, the power of someone telling you you're gifted, especially a young person.

Those words in particular, stayed with me to the point that I was taking classes off campus at the Walnut street theater school. Cause I didn't want anybody to, like, steal my joy, to be honest. I was like, oh, I want to take some more classes. And so I would take them at night. After I was at Temple University, I would take a couple classes. Invisibly. I had this secret. I wanted to be an actor, but everything about me wasn't set up to be an actor. I thought I wasn't cool. I didn't think I was much to look at, so I thought, I don't want anybody to say, I can't do it. And then I moved to California soon after to San Francisco, because I wanted to start a theater, which is what I did.

Really quick, though, can we add in moving to San Francisco from Philly instead of moving to New York to pursue theater?

It was all a life choice. One of my closest buddies, Guy Talley, he moved to San Francisco. He'll say, oh, my God, you're gonna love it. You should come out here. I had another year to go in school, but I was struggling because my parents just moved. I was working two jobs. My college was being paid for by me and grants, and I. And I couldn't maintain, so I was gonna take a semester off. I said, well, I'll come out to San Francisco for a while. So there were three guys living in a studio apartment in the Tenderloin district.

And you're like, wow, this can be a city dude.

Yeah. So I moved to San Francisco, and I thought, really? Maybe just for, like, a semester, a year and then go back to school. And I fell in love. It wasn't particularly because I was gay, but I was like, I need to move away from home to become this.

Other thing gay can also represent. People are going there to live out loud who they are for the first time, forget the sexual component. People are going there to finally be who they are.

I think that's exactly it. Everything about San Francisco, especially in the early nineties, it percolated with politics and becoming a part of something and its history of radical fairies and queer culture and Angela Davis. I'm like, yeah, I want to go there. There felt like infinite possibility to transform and become something else. I started to plant the seeds of the person that's sitting across from you. I became less shy. I became more in my body. I was doing holistic retreats. I was running around naked at Harvard Hot Springs. I was doing massage. I had to grew my hair out. I was skinny. I started to believe was hot.

Yeah, what a summer.

Because before, I was wearing baggy clothes and trying to hide next, you know, I'm like, nah, this is actually good. I look back now, I'm like, I had a nice little twink body.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Highly marketable.

I was pretty hot back then. I didn't know it, though. Isn't it funny? Because we never know when we look back. Oh, that wasn't so bad.

I know, I was like, oh, I got a terrible body.

Were you thin?

Yeah, I was thin. I wanted to be bigger. I thought I had a gut. I see pictures. I didn't have a gut. The same thing. I look back, I'm like, this guy's great. He's six'two.

You're like, he was fun. He was a good looking kiddeh, right? Do you do the same thing?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's still like, ew.

Yeah.

But we all have.

Me too. I do see some that reconfirm what I thought.

Yeah, I have pictures from yesterday where exactly?

Of course, currently. It always sucks.

It is good to cling on to that, though. Maybe if you don't like something now, in ten years, I'm probably gonna look back and think it looks great.

Yeah.

So just deal with it.

Well, it's funny.

Cause I don't know why I'm talking about this, but when people are changing their bodies so quickly when they're young, I'm like, give yourself a chance to grow into that nose. It could be your superpower.

Oh, no, totally. I kind of had a breakthrough. I was on a tv show, parenthood, for six years, and my father on the show is Craig T. Nelson. You know Craig T. Nelson?

Yeah, I do.

I'm like, watching myself when the show airs. I'm like, my God, I can't believe they let me on tv. I should not be dating that girl in this show. This is a mix up. But then at one point, I'm looking at Kraytine Nelson, and I decide to look at him objectively, the way I look at myself. And I'm like, yeah, he's got a big nose. Yeah, his chin is this, he's balding. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't see that. I see Craig T. Nelson. This man is a fucking aura. He's a spirit, he's a thing. He's specific, and I like it. And I am not looking at anything other than him and his totality. And I'm very attracted to it. And I was like, yeah, man, you gotta get there. You're just this thing and you're uniquely the thing and you're projecting a thing.

I bet Craig T. Nelson grew into that too.

Yeah, we're all human. I'm sure he didn't just look in the mirror, go, yeah, I'm the dude from Poltergeist when he was 15. When do you move to New York from San Francisco? Cause I could see you making a whole life there and never leaving.

I moved from Philadelphia to San Francisco. I was in San Francisco for ten years.

Ten years. You did like Nash Bridges and you were working a little bit.

I played every idiot on Nash Bridges. That was the only game in town.

You played multiple roles.

I did. I came back every season with a different role and always some dumb criminal doing something stupid. Kidnapping Don Johnson's daughter or something. I was working out in a Coogee sweater. You gotta watch the episode.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

The costumes are fantastic, but I was doing lots of regional theater. And then I did everything I needed to do in San Francisco. And it gave me a lot of really great gifts. But I thought, you know, when you open up like the Samuel French plays and they show you the first cast, and usually they're done at the public theater or the vineyard or something like that. In New York, I'm like, I want to be there. I want to do the first one. Here I am in San Francisco during the third, 4th production. I want to be literally in the room where it happens, originating it, the.

Room where it happens.

I know, right? A little Miranda in there, a little Hamilton. And so I moved to New York and I moved to New York at 35, something like that.

And were you having any stress about. I should have already been a lead of something at this age. Were you having age stress?

I think I had age stress around 40 something. A good ten years ago. It's not one of those stories of lore, but it's true. I was actually gonna really leave the business. Cause I thought I did everything I was supposed to do, and now I was in my mid forties, and I thought, this doesn't make any sense anymore. I'm still living like I was 25, doing job to job. I was succeeding, too. I was actually doing Broadway shows and being nominated for tonys and going to the west end. And I would always come back and felt like I was starting at zero. And then I would pick up bartending shifts. And I just thought, it's not practical. It doesn't make sense because I have friends who are attorneys and business people.

They have vacation homes.

Yeah, I'm still, you know, my rent stabilized apartment in Hell's Kitchen hustling. And I start to look at the future. This was about 4344. And I thought, I don't know if I. I can keep doing this. I remember it was a terrible couple weeks of constantly auditioning and auditioning and not getting anywhere. And I just felt like I wasn't useful or anybody wanted what I was selling. And I was like, you know what? I think I'm good. I literally had a breakdown at a gym. I don't know the real medical of a nervous breakdown, but I felt like that's what I had or a panic attack or something. But it felt like a life attack of me making a breakthrough and a change. And so I remember I went home and I was so distraught. And I asked my husband, I said, are you okay if I took a swing and did something else? Cause I used to have this photography business on the side where I would do everyone's headshots. I would do yours.

I'd be like, I would appreciate that.

If headshots usually cost $800, I'd charge you 400. I was undercutting and making a lot of money. You know, I was killing it. So anyway, so I really thought I would keep doing that and eventually have a portrait, studio, all that stuff. That was my plan. I had an exit plan. Cause I felt like, this makes sense and I have to depend on myself. New York. I was there for 16 years.

And as you say, you were in some hit musicals.

Huge.

You were on Broadway.

Yeah. It wasn't like I wasn't successful.

You're in a spike Lee moon.

This is after I was in Lincoln with Spielberg. This is after all of that Selma by David Duverne.

I was thinking like, yeah, I got the shot, and it's not turning into a sustainable life.

Yeah, I start to stack up working with all these people. Soderbergh, Spielberg, Ava Duvernay, you name it, Lee Daniels. And I was still making scale. I still had to keep a bartending job somewhere.

Yeah, you're worrying about your insurance. Am I gonna make my sag insurance minimums and shit?

I'm starting to worry about being a grownup. This part of the life as an artist is really challenging for me, and I just felt like I need to make another decision. I know people who keep going, and that's fine, too. But for me, I was like, I don't know if my heart can take it. I felt like I was starting to become hardened in this industry, and I thought, I would rather not. I started to become that person that I was.

They're not going to ever pay me. They're not going to give me that role.

And that's the truth, because that's the way it was. And so I had to dismantle all of it. And then suddenly, through a series of events of changing managers, changing agents, pretty quickly, everything changed. But also, I don't even think it was just my team. I think it was me. I changed. No, I'm not available for that audition because I've got to go do this. That's important for my life. Oh, they want you to drop everything and fly to LA and test for this. I'm not available. I can do it on Thursday, but I have something that's important to my life on Wednesday. So I stopped doing that, running around, dropping everything. And so I think there is an extraordinary power.

And no, let's just say, I think universally, desperation's not attractive.

No, it's not sexy at all.

No one likes it, and it's hard to shake. You are desperate. The reality is I'm in a one bedroom apartment in Santa Monica. I'm walking into auditions. Fucked. This Miller light commercial is gonna make it or break it for the year for me. And they feel it, and you can't even hide it.

It's all over your body.

Yeah, it's. Your pheromones are leaking, this desperation, and then it's a mental trick. And you go, I don't need it anymore. And all of a sudden, you enter the room differently.

You enter the room differently because you enter the room only with your work and the way you value yourself and they see it. But also, don't you think you have to at some point, divorce yourself from the way, how can I say this? Cause you just had me thinking about some people that I would walk in the room with. They were not as welcoming or supportive or nurturing. They sort of treated you like shit or treated you just like another person. Or you're sitting in the lobby of an audition and you literally hear the assistant calling in everybody else for the role that you're auditioning for.

You can hear them making the same choice you're about to make. Yeah.

And also you're like, or I remember walking into one network and I literally saw everyone's headshot. It was a horrible thing. Headshot of everyone who's testing. And you're sitting there and you're like, why would they do this to me? So it was so psychologically undermining. And literally, I started to say to my agent that I used to have, I said, you know, I'm cool with not going in there anymore. If they want me, I'll do a self tape. I started to put in some boundaries where I had some self respect left. I don't want to walk in already feeling like shit and be confirmed that I'm not shit and then not get the fucking role. I'll tell you this. Cause it's a terrible story. But after an audition and this one casting director was not kind or warm, and I literally looked her in the eye, started heading out. I took the sides, crumpled them up, threw them in the trash, and walked out. And I said, I don't ever have to go into that office again. I deserve to be treated better if I'm going to give my heart and be vulnerable and give my work, work that I've prepared for maybe 8 hours for no fee, and I come in and I deliver, and you can't even be kind.

I don't need to be here. So I started to make those decisions. That's when I knew I need to be out of this business.

It just reminded me when you were saying that Octavia Spencer has a great thing where she says, thank him, honey. Will you come back? No, but thank him, honey. Hers is, thank him, honey. I try to lock that in.

That's it.

Thank them.

It's that simple.

Would we label one of these projects as the breakthrough? Is it fear of walking dead? Can I tell you my experience with.

Your experience with me breaking through?

Yes. I've been in aa for 20 years, so I watch euphoria with a specific love. It can't believe how good the show is. And then you arrive, and I'm like, I know this dude from the rooms. This dude's in the program. You're so stunning in that role.

Thank you.

Truly I'm like, get the fuck out. This guy who just showed up, I haven't met him yet. You know, everyone's established. You're in a diner with her, and I'm like, please talk for three more hours. New character. I want to hear everything you got to say. The way you're dealing with her, I think there's this tendency to play sobriety. Storylines is really saccharine and fucking lofty and emotional. And it's not that. It's bare bones. Cut the shit. This is how it is. I'm this way too. Fuck it. We're gonna laugh at this. It was spot on.

There was something that Sam Levinson, my showrunner, writer director, gave me. He would place people who were actually in the program around me. Whether it was Marcia in that diner scene. She's got this one little scene where we talked to her. I'm like, miss Marsha. And she told me she's someone who'd been in recovery for, like, I believe, 17 years. Marcia and I, we became friends. She would tell me the wildest stories.

We got good stories.

Wild stories. Wild.

I'm like, wild, yeah, you want some stories?

And she would tell them in such a sobering manner. And she'd say, listen to the way she tells stories. Watch her. A life experience. I'd never been in recovery. I'm sure I'm addicted to something. Cause we all are.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's all relative. Sam had written it with such empathy and clarity, and it's just very natural. I'm going through that one Diana episode, which was really just Zendaya and I talking.

Yeah.

Cause I put myself through my own rehearsal for it, because I understood when.

I got the text, oh, you're talking for an hour.

This is something where it just has to be in my bones, and it has to be listening and responding. There's no real performative nature to this.

In the reality of who you're playing, this will have been the 13,000th time you've told this to somebody. Because you're working with people daily. They all have the same problems, and you know it.

You gotta look and just be honest. There's no saccharine attached to it.

No.

In that episode in particular, which is why it was so potent, was at the end of COVID It was the first job back to work, and so even all the protocols and everything, we're just so nervous, and we're just so glad to be there. And so I feel like all of that went into.

You're probably taking your mask off. Right before action, literally taking off. Now, that's how humans get to talk, which is rare.

We have that value attached to it. My God, I can talk to somebody. I feel like we're doing the work that we wanted the world to do after our summer of racial reckoning. Can we just sit and be honest with each other and not blow the fuck up? Can we just bare our souls to each other and just hold that for each other? It's one of the most beautiful episodes. Also at the core, that's Sam Levinson and his questions about the world.

And you had done his movie prior?

I did Assassination Nation, yeah.

When I interview actors, I think there's a lot of tells in when they have repeat business with people. Like, you did three Spike Lee things. Sam has you on a movie, then he brings you in for this. I think that says more than any words could.

I think you're right.

You're good to work with. You proved I can count on you. And all I'm trying to do is figure out what problem I make go away when I'm directing. So great. I got Coleman here. That's done.

There's a list of directors that I know. All you gotta do is call. I don't even need to know what the role is. Oh, it doesn't fucking matter. Just call me. I want to be in your mind. I want to play on your sets.

I've told a couple directors I worked with, like, you do a pizza commercial. I'm in those residuals, too. You want to do an industrial about fucking air conditioner units? I'm there if you're there.

Really? The industrial? I'm gonna elevate you a bit more. Not the industrial.

If my judge does an industrial, I'll go back. I promise. If Avro does an industry, I'll do it.

God. Did you start out doing industrials? I haven't done an industrial since the nineties.

Do they even exist anymore?

Do they? I didn't want to Kaiser Permanente and stuff like that. Like when I'm playing a doctor, I did one.

It was the lowest point of my career. It was like as am PM commercial. Do you know am psychological gas stations?

Absolutely. They're like, Wawa's.

Yeah, yeah. It's not a commercial. It's gonna be on tv. It's gonna play in amp Ms and the tv in the corner. And the director's walking me through, he's like, oh, great, now you're gonna make yourself a slurpee. Great. They're filming. I'm making a slurpee great. You take a sip of it. Oh, you love it. It's a great slurpee. All right, now we're at the hot dog machine. You make the hot dog. Go ahead and put some ketchup mustard on it. Great. You can't wait to eat it. But then you think, you know what? I'm gonna play this hot dog like a harmonica. Coleman. This is reality. I look up and I go, so I make the hot dog, and I think, I'm gonna play this hot dog like a harmonica. And he goes, yeah, it's gonna be great. And I was like, here we go. One. I started playing a goddamn hot dog like harmonica, and my soul caught on fire.

And who was the director? The director was Mike.

Jack was in re two. So, yeah, I see you in that now. I notice you everywhere. Right then I'm watching Beale street, and I go like, oh, fuck, that's my dude.

I've been, like, squirrely for years, and nobody could put together that it was actually me, which is kind of cool.

It's a real testament to you, too. And then, weirdly enough, for me still having seen euphoria, having seen Beale, having seen, we had in some people for the color purple, even in that interview, I said you were my favorite part of that movie. And I'm like, oh, my God, again, that's the dude. And then learning about who you were personally today, enormous departure. What are you talking about? A skinny kid, shy, lisp, gay, all these things. You're literally a chameleon. Like, you can be anything. None of the you was seeping through. But I then got curious, so I watched Sing Sing two nights ago.

Oh, wow.

Fucking loved it.

Thank you.

You do something that's just so rare and special. I mean, really, man, what a beautiful dude you are. It's overwhelming. So in sing Sing, you're playing a convict. You're a convict who's also working in this program, this RTD program. And you're a playwright and you're an actor and you're compassionate and you're leading with love, and you're breaking through to these dudes. And I was thinking, ironically, this is probably the character that might most touch who you are.

I think you might be right. There's a little sleight of hand that's happening because I think the character that I was conscious of building that is based on someone who was wrongfully convicted of a crime, that could be me, who had aspirations when he was a kid of being a dancer, but has sort of gotten beaten out of him. Cause he had to fight in tough streets on the inside. He really did educate himself in such an extraordinary way. He pretty much can be an attorney.

And he's a real dude.

A real dude. John Devine, G. Whitfield.

And he's with us still.

Oh, yeah, he's with us. He's actually in the film. He plays the guy who comes up with the book. He says, hey, I've been a fan of yours.

No way.

That's a little cameo there. I got to know him, and he's just a cool dude. He's a sweet guy. And I felt like the idea of creating someone, a character that still has sweetness in there and to try to protect that and then be the leader of a program that is about healing. Wow, I'm getting emotional thinking about this. But the idea that in this dark space that is not really set up for your rehabilitation, you are being a revolutionary by coming together with these men.

Vulnerability is merely the bravest thing that can be done.

It's an act of disobedience.

Yeah, it's a triple. It's insanity to try to expose your vulnerabilities to people who are potentially gonna prey on you.

And so when you know that about a character, you know how to play it, and you have to bring something a little closer to you and that vulnerability to shine through. I was shooting that movie in between the color purple and Rustin, actually.

Oh, really?

I was doing color purple when we were like, oh, we're trying to find dates to do it. And I'm like, I have 18 days before I go back to pickup shots for Rustin. They were like, we'll take them. I'm like, no, we can't do it. Then. Then I thought it felt right. And I was already in a state coming off of color purple by the time I went to sing Sing. I was, I think, in a bit more of a raw state that I think was required. I couldn't even do my work and my prep work the way I'm used to doing it, of knowing everything and detailing and all that, but I had to be in this other flex state.

Yeah, you're used to control. You like, control?

I do. I'm a research fiend, and I feel like when I know a lot, then I can liberate myself.

But guess what happens when you. You go to prison. All your control is out the window.

Yes.

So it's ideal. Sometimes life intervenes in these ways with.

I think that's exactly it. And the gift of a role or an experience as a creative I think a lot of times, if you really look at it, it's brought to you when you really need it.

I know, and I don't believe in anything yet. I can't deny that that happens constantly.

I needed this experience. At this time.

I had to be in a movie with a guy, and we play arch nemesis in the movie, and he auditioned, and I straight up hated him again. Back to the rich thing. I knew he was a rich kid. He wanted to be all some great thing he was a part of. He seemed entitled. I didn't like him. Told the director, I'm like, I don't want to spend two months with that dude. Sat on it for a day. I'm like, I also don't ever want to be a part of someone not getting something. So I got to take that back minimally for that. Cut to day two. I fall in love with the dude. He becomes one of my best friends, but I've had that.

This is good, though, because literally, I had a meeting with someone recently, and this person, everything about him was privileged, and everything about him was like, I don't like this. And it turned me into the guy that I know I can be sometimes where I'm like, oh, you think you're a. So you're a little shit. So I flopped up. Exactly. You know what I mean? I was like, I fucking hate this dude. But his work was actually really beautiful, and I was like, how did you make this work? But you're also a privileged little dick, by the way.

I'm the other mad at you.

I'm down with your work. Then I'm mad at myself.

Yeah, I keep watching this thing you did. I hate your fucking guts. But guys, you're good at. Well, it's life, dude. So I hated rich people growing up. Well, lo and behold, I'm a rich person. I have kids that are growing up rich. And what's crazy now is now I think I'm actually more impressed with rich kids who end up doing good work in a movie they didn't have to.

That's true.

I was hungry. I wanted all the shit. I was driven. So, weirdly, I'm now on the other side, where it's like, I'll meet someone who grew up. Ben Platt. His dad is Mark Platt. He owned wicked. This dude should be a lazy motherfucker. He's out on Broadway ripping his chest open.

He's got talent. Like a motherfucker.

Yes, but in drive and passion. And so I wish go. Like, I'm not triggered. That that kid grew up on a private plane. I'm actually blown away.

I am.

Making room for all of it.

Yes.

But, you know, I actually. Now I find that more impressive. He didn't have to do shit. So. I don't know. Every time you get to hop into anyone's shoes, you start just seeing a little different. So what was the outcome, though, of you with the privileged dude whose work you couldn't deny?

I don't know yet.

You'll probably fall in love with him. I recommend going to Starbucks soon. You get there. That could be a real breakthrough. That's what happened for us.

Everything he was saying was triggering to me, and I don't know why, but it just felt that he was so removed from certain experiences. I have very wealthy friends, but I feel that there's some commonality. They show me their heart and their pain in some way, but I felt like this person was looking at everything as an anthropological study. Yeah. So how did you do that? And you're like, fucking work my ass off.

Yeah.

How do you think that anything happened? So that was me. I felt like a dick when we were having this meal together. I was like, why am I being a dick? Cause he's wearing his wealth in such a way. And I'm like, I've got money now, too, right?

Let me talk about my money.

I'm just back from a very long trip to Europe with my husband.

It is interesting what gets us, though.

Yeah. It's telling, you know, I have some billionaire friends. The first thing I always try to do is like, I'm buying lunch. I'm buying dinner. I'm gonna let you know that your money means nothing to me.

I'm not here for that yet.

I will take a week at your.

Home with the butler.

I'll take that. But I'm buying dinner.

When we land in your plane, we're stopping at McDonald's. And that's how me trying to put.

Out your credit card at Mickey B's.

Let's balance the power here.

Exactly.

The true statement now is that in that audition with that guy, I don't know what he thought he was at that time. I was like, he thinks he's better than everyone. He's entitled. He's blah, blah, blah. The truth is, his presence made me feel less than. I felt less than, which is my problem.

Yeah.

I don't now feel less than. And it's not because I got money. I don't feel less than anymore. So those people, magically, they don't trigger me anymore.

I wonder why this guy triggered me.

Let's have dinner tomorrow.

Some people are annoying.

Yeah, there are.

I felt less than. I just felt like I didn't like the way he was. There was something. I don't know.

Let me be more specific. I don't even know that I felt less than in that. But it reminded me of a time when I definitely felt less than, which.

Is, growing up, he made me feel like I was an other.

Yeah.

And I think that's the thing, because he felt removed from my experience in some way. I don't walk through the world that way. I feel like I have common language with anybody.

Yeah, you can relate to anyone.

I think so. Cause also, it's about being curious about people. A myriad of people can be sitting in this room. It's my job to find out what connects us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you're looking at someone like, oh, so, so you're a tall, white tattoo.

What's that like?

What's that like?

Did you grow up on a single white trailer? Yes, I did.

Exactly.

Almost like he's studying you or something.

It felt weird. I felt awkward. That's it.

But again, like, total benefit of the doubt. God knows what he felt like. You might represent authenticity, and he might be feeling fraudulent.

Also, people have different levels of social skills. That's what I try to notice now. I'm like, maybe they're just not good at that. You're very good at it. You're very good at connecting. You're very personable. You're easy to talk to. You take that for granted. Cause that's just who you are, and that's the way you go through life. But a lot of people are hard.

A lot of people are rough around the edges.

Yeah. And are hard. And they struggle with how to communicate and be social.

Maybe that's it.

Maybe you just couldn't do it.

Yeah.

I'm walking in there. Big Hollywood star.

Yeah.

Gorgeous, gorgeous.

Long legs, loaded booty shorts on. I mean, it was intimidating. Maybe that was me.

Yeah, it could have been you.

I love the way we reinterpret it now. Like, that was all me.

You're the jim, I think we decided.

You'Re the actually at the table. I was the dick at lunch. It's important to know who's the dick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to know. One breakthrough moment I had is I was directing a movie. My mom was doing craft service. It was very low budget, family affair, and there was a pa on the thing, and he was objectively had a terrible personality. And we would come home every night and my mom would just unload about how condescending this kid was to her all day long. Condescending. And I just had this moment where I thought, oh, you know what's funny is I had title of director. It's been established I am the boss there. I'm number one. So when that kid was being condescending to me, it was easy for me to see he's got a terrible personality. He certainly doesn't think he's above me. We all know I'm at the top of this pyramid. And I was like, oh, wow, that's kind of a breakthrough. Same personality. But if I weren't director, yeah, it would drive me crazy. Like, it drove my mom crazy. Cause she thought, oh, this kid thinks he's above me. I'm craft service, blah, blah, blah. Which is all our own story. But just the dumb title of director made me just see, oh, this guy just has a bad personality.

He's not fun at parties, probably doesn't have a lot of friends. No one wants to date him. That's where it ended. Cause I was director, and I was like, you gotta walk through life and just convince yourself your director and everyone's thing is just their thing.

That's a great way to put it. But also, that's a very generous way to put it as well, too. No, you just have a shit personality.

Yeah.

And I'm more involved.

It's not personal to everybody, not just me.

Yeah.

What's the real history of the Sing Sing story?

There's an RTA program that started as sing sing. I'm just ballparking, like ten years ago, but it really is a rehabilitation through the arts program. This guy Brent Buell and a lot of members founded it, but they started at Sing Sing of, like, putting on plays. And I think the intention was not only put on plays, but eventually what the idea of the practice of this does. Research, teamwork, putting your feet in someone else's shoes, expressing emotion. It became a tool for rehabilitation.

By the way, I have all these sides of myself I would never show anyone. Cause that's too dangerous. But I get to do it as a character, so I'm safe. I have distance.

You can explore all of it. And so they found that it's been a really great program. And actually, there's a less than 3% reincarceration rate amongst people who go through that program.

Wow.

Versus, I think the number of recidivism. Hard word is in the sixties or seventies. It's high, very high.

Program works.

How did it come to you?

It came to me by the director Gregdar and Clint Bentley. They did the movie jockey a few years ago. It was a beautiful film. I saw that. But also my agents were like, oh, I think you would really like these two guys. They said they wanted to meet with you at some point. They had this idea that they've been wrestling with for years, but they haven't figured it out. And I was like, can we set up a meeting? I'm like, cool, let's set up a meeting. Why not? So we had a zoom. Honestly, they seemed, like, almost too nice.

Sure.

I was like, nobody's not nice.

We're the bottom.

That kind. Surely not in Hollywood. So I was like, okay, but I'm suspicious. They were, like, talking about what they wanted to do and why this program was important and all that. And I was like, okay, two lovely white guys. Let's see what you're gonna do. And then they even talked about the model that they wanted to build this film off of, of, like, making sure it's a community based model. We wanted to involve some members of the RTA that was formerly incarcerated in here as actors, as co writers. Writers. And also make sure they also participate in success when it comes to building the equity and everything. So the whole model was really like, hmm, really? You gonna be that generous?

Are you actually putting your money where.

Your mouth is beautiful and kind about all of it, truly in practice. And they've never failed so far all the way through.

Well, one of the coolest parts of the movie, the movie in itself is fantastic. I would say there's two really predominant reasons, but then you get to the end, you're seeing footage of the real plays, which is so heartwarming. And then you're going through the credits, and we find out virtually everyone in the movie, save a few of you, are the dudes from RTA.

So cool.

And you're seeing them as himself. As himself. As himself. And then the cherry on the cake is like, fuck, yeah. These dudes got to be in a movie after all this.

A lot of them are producers on it. It's really cool.

So the two things that are overwhelming about it are your performance. And then who's your costar?

Clarence Divine. I. Macklin.

What a name.

Goodness. Tell me about him. So, really quick, the premise. We meet you. You're kind of the leader of this group. You write, you help direct. You really connect with people. Side note, Monica, you'll love this. Just watching them do the dumb acting exercises used to do when you're killing everyone? Get up and move your body. We're walking in a circle now. You're walking.

A treat.

It really brought me back to those exercises, and I was like, yeah, this pursuit is cool. You gotta get up and embarrass yourself and make yourself vulnerable.

Her vulnerable in a maximum security presence. It's kind of wild. And then you meet Clarence divine Eye Macklin, his character based on a version of himself who was a shit starter.

He's their fucking dudes up. He's thriving in his.

That was his there. They wanted to get some new members for a play, and they thought, oh, this guy is a performer. He's got all these attributes. It's kind of cool. And then you don't even know that this dude actually quotes Shakespeare. He's actually really smart. So we invite him to join. He comes and checks it out and becomes a bit of a superstar. But then he also has to fold himself into this group and sort of the ethos of the group and how do we protect it and make sure that this is a safe space to do this work?

He's having a real hard time taking the armor off. Yes. And Coleman's character penetrates him in this most beautiful way. You guys have a dust up, and he calls you the n word at the end. You've been taking it on the chin. Taking it on the chin. You've been acquiescent. You're trying to cool him down, down and de escalate. And he says that, and then you go, hey, we don't use that in here. It's beloved.

They don't use the n word. They're like, we call each other beloved.

What?

The idea of calling another man beloved.

In that place, I mean, that's a revolution of the movie.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, God damn.

To call someone beloved.

So we.

That actor, oh, he's fantastic, isn't he?

He's outrageous. Has he been in a lot of stuff?

No, this is his first film.

He was really in.

Yeah, he was in sing sing. He went through the system, and he's been out for years and doing incredible work with youth, where he lives in Connecticut. When Greg said, we have an idea of someone who could be your co star, he went through the program. We met, and immediately it was fire. We were like, oh, we can create many things from this. And so we thought about the themes of brotherhood. I'm like, no, these two should be at odds, and they should build to realize they need each other.

I cannot believe that's his first movie because I was watching at first. He's so authentically a bad Mandev motherfucker.

His swagger, the way he walks around. I feel like he's been ready for this for a long time. He always says that he's so glad that he found this. Cause it really has been sort of a life reserve, especially finding himself as an actor. He needed this outlet. He's like, if I had this outlet before I went in, I would have never been in. Oprah said in an interview, everything that has built me as Oprah Winfrey in some way, I'm paraphrasing, is the same stuff where I could have been an incredible criminal. It's the same mindset because you're so smart and you know how to work systems many ways. So it is that gift he has been given.

Obviously, this is the intention of the movie, but you can't help but see it and think, oh, yeah, we've got 2 million people sitting in cement boxes in the country. And look, a lot of them need to be there. It's not safe for them to not be there and to hurt other people. Given that, do we need to make it hell for them there? Do we need to be punitive? Do we need to remove them to keep people safe? Or are we there to make them suffer and be punitive and get revenge? Because I think we all know enough that there's a lot of predictable events in people's life that put them there. So they already had the shit end of the stick in childhood, which has landed them there, and now they're there. And should we just keep ratcheting the fucking screws on all these people? Or should we attempt to help them find some humanity in this impossible situation?

It does feel like it's available to those who are ready for and say, help me be better. And I need tools. I think that's what RTA provides. They look at it as something sacred. You can't just easily get into RTA. Clarence will tell you he had to not have any infractions for a solid year before he can get in there. He had to do the work to say, I'm ready to be there. Cause I need this. I'm gonna respect it and value it, because it's something I want to change my life.

Yeah. Stay tuned for more armchair experts, if you dare. I guess a better way for me to say it is, when you see these people get to experience this little sliver of humanity and compassion and connection and vulnerability, what you can't deny is, all right, they actually need it more than anybody.

Absolutely.

Yeah. It's very moving. It's fantastic.

Thank you.

You've written a lot of stuff too. You're a playwright. You've had a lot of stuff produced. Very impressive. You're going to do Nat King Cole eventually.

Yes. That'll happen. Hopefully in another year or so. I think that that's been pushed back a little just so we can build it the right way.

And you're playing Joe Jackson?

Yeah.

And Michael.

Yeah.

Antoine.

Antoine Fuqua.

Yeah. When's that start?

We wrapped that.

Oh, you already did it.

Oh, I did it. I was Joe Jackson and everything.

Oh, wow. Can't wait to see your Joe Jackson.

You want to see what I look like? Yes. I'll give you a sneak peak here.

Yes. Yes.

You've been so busy. You've been thing after thing after thing.

It's been a real auspicious time.

You had great frustration, but now on the other side, do you feel gratitude? It happened later for you.

The things were always gonna happen when they were supposed to happen. I was just attached to being a working actor, to be honest, there was no way I could predict this success or even dream about it. I don't know what that says about me. Did I have a limited imagination? I just thought I wanted to be a working actor and work on things that were important to me.

Whoa.

In the wild, I mean, dude, I'm.

Not sure I would know it was you.

Definitely not.

Oh, my God.

Isn't it wild?

What do you feel like when you would look in the mirror in your trailer? Does that look do all the work for you?

You have prosthetics.

Can I say something dicey? You look a lot lighter in that.

Well, he is lighter.

He is, right. So you would have fake full, lighter skin.

The makeup team and the prosthetics team, they did jobs. I can't overact that. I just have to let that happen. You know what I mean? You're like, no, I need to dial it back a little bit, because that.

Is the look is doing a lot of the lifting for you. Did he make you box?

Box?

Isn't that Antoine's thing? He makes the actress box.

He didn't make me box. I'm sure he boxes. I mean, his body's ripped. Yeah.

Yeah.

I think he's had many of the actors in the past box.

Well, now I'm jealous.

Yeah. If I were you, I might have a trip.

I'm gonna call, like, why didn't I box?

Why wasn't I good enough to box? What do you think about. What's your stereotype about me also? I'm rich, motherfucker. I'm on my way to eat a very pricey meal.

I'm on my way to air one.

I spent dollar 100 on a drink. Well, shit. Coleman, I'm so delighted that I got to meet you in person. I'm such an enormous fan, and I'm so excited that you're gonna get the through all this stuff now.

Thanks, man.

And you're gonna just stick around. Cause you're so fucking great.

This has been really lovely. Just like, kicking it with you guys.

Oh, good.

You're wonderful.

You live in New York?

No, I live here.

Oh, you do?

Yeah. You know, I still give off New York. I think that's what it is.

How long have you lived here?

Nine years.

Really? Do you miss New York?

No.

You got a yard?

I served my time. I have a house in southeast LA, and I just bought a house in Malibu, so I like a peaceful existence. I was plugged into the New York life for many years.

It's like being on coke for decade.

That's exactly it. Being on speed. Actually, I literally lived at 43rd 9th Avenue.

Yeah, you're plugged in. You walk out of your house.

Well, yeah, I was telling people, yeah, I walked out of my building and something had happened. I don't like that anymore. I'm 54. I want to control my environment. Like, I wake up early and go for walks. I'm that dude.

Fucking weather's nice. You don't have to wear ten layers.

Dinner party, short shorts.

Half the year, I got an invitation to go have a dinner at a farm. You don't get that New York. No, you got, oh, it's a far lovely ojai. Why not? You know, it's that life now.

Oh, I love that for you.

If you're in LA, I can't wait to bump into you. I'm gonna be on high alert now.

Yeah, man.

Well, Coleman, great meeting you. Everyone sees sing sing and then everyone see Michael. I think everyone will have the joy I did. It was like once you fall in love with you, you're like, oh, right, that was him. There he is too. Look over here. So enjoy that ride. Be welcome back.

Thank you. I appreciate you that. Thank you, Monica.

I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode. But we'll find out when my mom misses Monica comes in and tells us what was wrong.

Okay, so we're gonna start this fact check with some updates for you guys.

Yes.

We're gonna loop you in.

See in the comments, people have some curiosities about our new deal at wondry, of course. And so nothing's changing. That's the big headline. Wherever you listen to our show, and however you listen to it, you will continue to listen to it just as you prefer to listen to it. So that's the most important thing for armchair expert. For armchair expert, we are making some.

Changes, which we will also talk about right now. Yeah, but, yes, for armchair expert, you can listen absolutely anywhere you currently listen.

Yeah, but, but you're getting three really rad new offerings. One is, of course, which we've already talked about video. So we'll have video fact checks and then we will have video experts. And that brings us to the next change, which is instead of having to wait two days between Monday and experts, now it'll be Wednesday. So now you can go every other day. So Monday, celebrity, Wednesday, expert. Friday, we party hard, blow it out with Armchair Anonymous.

Yeah.

And then third, and this one excites me truly the most. You can now listen to the show starting September 1, you can join Wondry plus and you can listen to the show completely ad free and a week early. So these are all just, I think, fun, wonderful add ons that are gonna just make armchair, elevate it that much better.

Yes, I agree. Yeah. You have the option for ad free if you pay for Onedrive plus you get the episodes a week early. That's awesome. There'll be a period of time where you can try this all out for free as well, which is exciting.

Yep, yep.

And for the other shows, we are making some changes because we're of the move. Our other umbrella shows will not be on this feed, which means it won't be naturally placed into your pocket, basically.

Right. So you're gonna have to go and subscribe to, synced independently. And subscribe to flightless independently.

Exactly. If you want to remain with those.

Shows and you can start that. When can they start that? By the following week? I mean, we'll have it up before September 1. It's not gonna be up by Monday. I got you, I got you, I got you. Okay. By the 26th, before they leave the armchair universe, we will have a new feed. So I really strongly, strongly urge you to go ahead and search out synced and flightless and subscribe to those, and they'll come through independently to you.

There is going to be some changes with flightless bird. If you want to hear about those, you'll go listen to fightless bird. You'll hear about those synced is going to move to Thursdays.

Great.

We'll take that spot. Yeah. In case you guys do like having something every day. You'll have something every day.

So.

Yeah, just go. Just type it in. You just type in synced. Synce D. You'll continue to get that. You'll subscribe there.

I type synced to you often.

You spell it wrong every time.

Do I?

Yeah. Which worries me a little bit, which is why we should you add an h. I do.

That's not how it's spelled, huh?

No, no h. Wow.

Why do I add an h? And why doesn't weirdly know how to spell cinched?

I think a few other people have spelled it wrong, too. So it's not just you.

But even getting to the first two letters are always a struggle for me. I always wanted to. I think synced is spelled psy. Like psychology. I have to strongly fight the urge to type psy. And often I start by typing psy.

That's interesting.

Weird, right? Synced sounds like psychological. And it is.

Well, it is and it is.

And it is.

And reminder, we do fun stuff over there. We chit chat. Liz and I. Liz plank and I.

It's a party.

It's really fun. We answer fun questions from listeners, which is great.

I'm occasionally a guest.

You can pop your opinions in there.

Yeah, I bowl through like a loud, entitled mail and drop some opinions and then.

Oh, you've done that?

Yeah. Always by invitation. Always.

Always by invitation. That is absolutely correct. And you're always invited. But anyway. Yeah, so those. So those are our updates. And now we'll sort of get into our regular.

Yeah, nothing to fear. Only bonus stuff coming in this new phase.

Okay, so now we're gonna move into our regular programming. Programming. Our housekeeping is now concluded.

Okay, great. We just had a very exciting first impression, first look. First look of the new video recording space.

It looks really good. Rob put it together and it looks incredible. And there's lots of treats and pop outs.

Very rob with the thoughtful gifts. So we each have our own corner of the new space. Yeah, and you have your own corner. And inside of it is a cute little cartoon of Taylor riding a sandwich.

Well, that's a play. That's a celebrities on sandwiches account. I love that.

That, like, he sent us a ton. I ordered the Dax one.

Yeah, cuz there's one of you. There's one of Kristen.

Okay. I didn't even know I was one. Like, that wasn't done just for us. That's an existing bit of art. They did.

I have Donald Glover on a sandwich in my kitchen right now.

Oh, my God. I feel anointed that I was included.

You should be. It's a big honor.

Yeah. Yeah. And you're in a chili dog, I think.

Oh, yeah. They try to make it to the sandwich that the person loves.

Yeah. I mean, there's debate on whether hot dogs are sandwiched. We won't get caught up on that.

Sure. Sure.

Wow. Wow, wow.

There's a new painting.

Mm hmm. We should save that.

Okay. That's a.

There's a few. And some people. Really? Because Lincoln had entered with her drawing of the Ted seeers. People really were mad I didn't post it. Well, guess what? That's now on display behind me.

Yeah.

In my corner.

Yeah.

And you have a corner. And I have a corner.

It would have really cool. It's cool. It's gonna be.

And you're scared. We're scared. We're scared.

But I'm in acceptance mode.

Uh huh. Yeah.

Yeah. Sometimes you just gotta accept the life you have.

That's right. And be grateful for it.

Be so grateful for it. But also, I do think sometimes. Sometimes I. I mean, I do have so much gratitude, but sometimes I bucket that a tiny bit because I think. I think. Trying to be delicate.

Okay. Be delicate. Take your time.

Sometimes take your socks off. It's hot.

Yeah, take it. There we go. I was teasing. But you really did need to take those off somehow. I knew intuitively that you needed to get rid of those. They're also a one inch sock for the listener, so it's not like it was a wool sock up to the knees. It was a one inch sock.

Their bombas no longer a sponsor, but would love for them to return, because I do love that we're still with.

Them, even though they've deserted us.

Exactly.

We're still loyal.

It's a. It's a nice thick sock, though.

It's a great walking sock.

Yeah. And that's what I did. I walked.

Yes.

So I needed a thick sock. Anyway. I think sometimes we can short change our feelings a little bit, our actual feelings, because we're just like, well, I should just. I should be grateful. I need to have gratitude. Just forget it. Right. And. And that's not really. I think it's evolved and cool, but I actually don't think it's effective because your feelings are still there.

They stick around.

Yeah. And then they just keep bubbling and bubbling. So you really have to have real peace and acceptance, I think before you can have gratitude, we have to.

Well, as I've been told, you have to invite them in, observe them, experience them, and then move on.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Is that what you already were saying? Do you feel like I.

No, I think that was sort of similar.

You're just supposed to observe your feelings. You're not supposed to ignore them.

Yeah.

And you're not supposed to indulge them. You're supposed to observe them. Yeah. I feel this way, and I won't feel this way forever. And.

And I think, for me, it's good to know, like, why I feel it. And that's it.

Okay, well, long story short, when we were down there, we did a little test fire of all the cameras. Yes. And then we almost got into a fact check.

Yeah.

We had to stop ourselves, and so.

We already earmarked some stuff before this even started.

Mm hmm.

And one of them is delayed gratification. I was asked to remind you, and now I'm doing that.

Okay.

All right.

So a couple nights ago, I stayed up till 03:00 a.m. okay.

Naughty girl.

Yeah.

Uh oh.

Well, first of all, I couldn't sleep. And then I thought, what should I do about this? I'm gonna take matters into my own hands. I'm gonna watch tv a little bit.

Sure.

Which is what they said not to do, you know?

Well, I've heard different things. The one I'm in favor of. Of is, like, fighting it makes it worse.

Yeah.

Enjoy it. Okay. I'm up to watch tv or read something fun.

Exactly.

And stop thinking about the fact that you're supposed to be sleeping, and that'll generally lead to sleep.

Yeah. I think reading would be better.

The best.

Yeah. I don't think they think light is good for sleep.

Blue light. They love blue light for sleep.

They like red light.

Yeah, I know. I know. They hate.

They, like red light. Right? That's, like, a thing.

They hate blue light. Which your tv primarily is, I guess, or your device.

My device. It was a computer.

Oh. Why would you watch on your computer?

So this is where we're heading.

Okay.

Now, I'm actually reluctant to even say this because I feel hurt, personally offended that none of these people have been on the show. So I don't want to shout it out, but I can't not. I love only murders in the building so much.

Yes, yes.

And I always have.

But they're also a sponsor, so we can. You can shout them out and. Good. Yeah, we read an ad for it. Good.

This is also just. It's. I love it. I just love it. And the fourth season is coming out.

Mm hmm.

And I got sent the screen and I told myself I wasn't gonna watch them because I love it so much and I want to watch it real time. It comes out at the end of August, I think, so soon.

Mm hmm.

But then when I was killing time.

Yeah.

At midnight.

Yeah.

I was like, maybe I should just put on an episode.

Okay. I can see the slippery slope.

Yeah.

I want to add one thing too, while we're talking about it, because we had been watching the boys ahead of schedule, one of our favorite shows on Amazon. We had screeners, and then we had started one on that streaming device where you can watch things early. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, I actually think it's out now. Like, I think it's actually now out. And I think all of them are out. So we went over to, I'm like, let's go over to the real feed on Amazon. And the quality is infinitely better because you're always getting a non color corrected, not fully sound mixed.

Yeah.

And it's fine because you love the show, but if there's a huge leap up once it goes to broadcast.

Yes.

Yeah. Especially that show on screeners I've watched where they don't even have special effects yet. So there was that, like, penis where she goes inside it. Yeah. That was just like, what it looked like on set. Oh, interesting.

That's kind of cool. That's like BTS.

Mm hmm.

Anyway, so I started it.

Okay.

And I watched it all. Oh, I watched the whole thing. I went to that at like, 315.

You watched it all in one sitting?

Yeah.

Whoa, congrats.

Except two things.

That's like, I just wanna say to parallel it with drugs, that's like, that's a rack smoking night. That's like, not just snorting. We're gonna, we're gonna dance with the devil tonight.

It felt like. It felt. And then at like 130, in the middle of my binge, I went and I ate a bunch of pretzels.

Oh, wow.

I don't even like pretzels. I was, I was. It was like a midlife crisis.

Okay, your parents had just left or they were about to leave.

They.

They left that day.

They left that morning.

Yeah. Interesting.

So maybe I felt like I'm a kid again.

I'm a naughty kid on my own. Now get out of here. Parents. I'll watch tv.

I'll eat. 05:00 a.m. i stream at 04:00 a.m.

Yeah, I'm gonna reclaim myself as my own person.

Maybe that is why.

Hmm.

Probably not.

Well, the timing's interesting. They left, and then you couldn't go to sleep. Maybe.

Well, I have not. I've not been sleeping well at all.

All.

So it's not new. But. But also, I think I was sad that they left.

Okay, great. I mean, not great, but, yes, also great.

Yeah.

I do feel, like, better than being happy they left.

Yeah. When they left, I felt like, oh, that was really nice and grounding, actually.

Yeah.

So then they left, and so maybe that. Maybe that did play a part in it. I don't know.

Yeah.

Anyway, I watched all the screeners, but they did me dirty. Do you know about did me dirty?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's hard to know, but, yes, I do know what being done dirty is.

Okay. Well, I'm just trying to figure out where we separate. Mm hmm.

Yeah.

That's smart for the most part. Unfortunately, we don't separate that much.

Yeah. And I.

Unfortunately for me.

Well, I was gonna say in an even meaner, probably more accurate critique would be like, I'm a little better than my age.

Oh, no.

And you're a little worse than your age.

Yeah.

Why are you doing that?

I didn't know. I mean, I think that's that. Actual facts. I think I'm a little more dialed in than most 49 year olds.

Yeah.

I just. For probably because we interview young people and I have young kids, whatever the case. And then you might be like, you might be more like testing at, like, 39 for your awareness of cool new seven.

You're not in a week and a week. A week.

Okay. But right now you're 36.

Is old, like, old to know the vernacular.

That's fair.

I think I'm doing better than.

Oh, you think you're doing better than your average 37 year old?

Okay, I do.

I do.

All right, great.

Okay. Anyway, they did me dirty. Yeah. I think they left the last episode off. They sent seven episodes.

Oh, yeah. There's probably no way it's seven.

The way it's unraveling. I think there's one more.

Yeah. Okay.

So now I've fucked myself over two times. Times. One is now I have nothing to look forward to, which I already was, like, excited to have some weekly show to look forward to.

Yeah.

And now I have to wait so long.

Well, although that could be a great excuse to rewatch, which would be nice. I will, because that's what I did to myself with fallout. I got some screeners to do the interview, and then we were out and I had just had to wait, and that was rough. There's ten episodes of season four. Whoa.

God. I have three more. That's better. That's better.

Much better.

Okay.

You're only halfway through the season in a way. I'm gonna rewatch and you're 70% through the season.

But rewatch them all tonight.

Okay. Okay. Do they drop? They drop those weekly? Yeah. Uh huh. Okay.

It's so good. I love that show so much.

Is the season great this season?

Season's great. They're always great. They just put me in short.

Was coming out. What happened?

I know he's not.

We're friendly. Martin short, I don't have his number. I guess we're not that friendly. Oh, boy. I guess that would.

That's a good indicator.

It is a great indicator.

Yeah.

That we're not really.

I'm friendly with Selena Gomez, too, in that way.

Because you're DM or just.

Oh, I just like her a lot.

No.

And I bought rare beauty products.

Okay. I have hung out with him. I did spend a week in the summer with him one time in Canada. And then I have seen, you know.

I have mutual friends.

You do? Who?

I can't say.

Why? I think that mutual friend would be flattered. No, it's a secret or you're nervous. The mutual friend shouldn't have told anyone they were friends. Okay, Liz.

No, no, no. But I love. I love her. We love her. We love. I love her, doc.

Yes.

I love her makeup.

Yeah.

And I love.

We're all in.

Yeah, we're all in.

What, how was the next day? So that was Wednesday night. So then what did you wake up at?

I was so tired.

Yeah.

And I had. I had a meeting at ten or 930. I had a meeting.

Okay.

It's all a blur.

Go on.

I had a bunch of meetings and I had to look alive.

Yeah, and you were struggling.

Yeah, I was struggling. A. But it was worth it. Then I started to do it last night again, but I didn't. I stopped myself.

So what were you gonna do last night?

I started that. Presumed innocent.

Sure.

Which Jakey G. J. He's great in that show.

Of course. He's great in everything. Did you notice his sunglass thing in the first couple episodes? Like, wears them, like, around his.

No, I know. I did notice that.

I thought I was gonna call, be a callback later, but doesn't. It was just a weird choice that he made.

Wears them in his button down, like, mid cool.

He probably.

That could be a new Gen Z thing. We don't know.

He probably saw a guy who, he was modeling his character after who did that. Yeah, this probably would happen. And no one knows except for that original guy. Why it's like that.

Just like, I only know the friend of a friend.

That's right.

It's cool to know things only, you know.

But I want to say he's on. I just want to applaud that. Like, I think Roadhouse is, like the biggest, most streamed movie, awesome, enormous hit on streaming. And then that thing is constantly number two on Apple. I think that thing has done extremely well. As well. As well. As well. As well. That's gonna be the new catchphrase, by the way. As well. As well.

As well. Hello?

Hello? Hello.

God.

It'S Bob Durst calling. Yeah. What do we need to sell?

He says that, yeah, he's trying.

He's gonna, like, you know, he's gotta mount a legal defense after he gets incarcerated at post the show.

Yeah.

There's all this footage of him in the jail cell talking to his wife, and he's like, what's happening in the Hamptons? Do we have that house still? She's like, yeah. And he's like, what? Is the market good? And she's like, Bob. Yeah. It's like three x. It's probably worth, like, 30 or $40 million. He's like, oh, okay. He has no idea if he has a housewife who's his wife. Oh, wow. I. All I can say. And do you, are you familiar enough with the song? You had to be a big shot, didn't you? Had to. The Billy Joel song.

I do.

She is the woman in that song. She's like a scenester in Manhattan, and she has made it through. I applaud her. She's a survivor.

Okay.

And she is, like, been weirdly married to Bob Durst and managing his life on the sidelines, but not with him. It's very interesting.

This is so interesting. This is like the. This is the women who own tigers.

Yeah.

It's the same mentality.

Giselle, gazelle, whoever was with Elaine. Elaine.

Yeah, exactly. There's something very.

Now, let's be clear. I'm not comparing Bob Durst's wife to Elaine. She was a criminal.

She ate it in all of.

Yeah. So I just want to be clear about that. But, but, yeah. These people who can dance with, like, a real dark character and get what they want.

I know. I find it very fascinating.

Yeah.

And, like, what have they told themselves? That's really what I want to know. What have they told themselves to justify all this and to fulfill them.

Yeah. Well, to me, of course it's easy to be judgmental on the outside of New York, but clearly LA is the same way. And it has its own crazy heightened culture.

Oh yeah.

And status is so on display.

Yeah.

But definitely when I'm watching the dursing and I'm watching the wife and it's, you know, a real estate family worth billions, old New York stuff, there is a whole tier of people who are just like they're socialite. They're actually socialites. Like they've found a way to be wealthy and they just go to restaurants and they go to different things and art showings and they just try to get in the paper at some once in a while. It's so fascinating. Yeah. Like they hope that page six will be whispering about them or something. But.

But then why would she, if she's in that group, why would she attach herself to Robert money first?

I mean, she's got it.

She already have it.

I don't think she came with her own again. Maybe she'll send me. She was.

But no, this is all alleged.

This is what I think.

Yeah. We don't know anything facts.

But one would. Let's put it another way. I have a very hard time coming up with an explanation for why one would be linked to a convicted murderer and someone who did was acquitted of a murder but admitted to a murder.

Yeah.

If you stick with someone who's murdered multiple people and financial gains, not part of the motivation. I'm even more confused about you.

Yeah.

So this is maybe even my most generous.

Yeah, exactly.

Guess at what the motivation is.

Tangible answer that's not just like psychologically. It's interesting like that. A little creepy, but probably might be more accurate.

Yeah.

Okay. That just reminded me that we had a really interesting question on synced a few episodes ago. I forget when that. I wonder what your opinion is on this. It's just very thought provoking.

Okay, great.

Someone wrote in that they have been dating someone for a little while and they really, really like this person. It feels like a really healthy relationship. Really good, very respectful, all these things. And then her friends came to her and they said that they, they found out that he was on the sex offender registry.

Okay.

So she confronted him about it and.

He told her, hold on 1 second though. I'm already intrigued by like have you ever had friends that went to look at a already? Really? There's so much already there.

I know.

Which is a crazy history that her friends feel that protective of her or.

There got a vibe from him just already.

Quite interesting that they, on their own, went and searched the sex registry for the new boyfriend.

Maybe like he had a vibe or something. Either he had a vibe or even.

If someone had a vibe, do you think your next move would be like, I'm going to the people.

I will say, especially nowadays because of social media. People do really intense deep dives.

They frequent those sites.

Yeah.

Okay.

Or I don't know about those sides.

Have you ever searched to find out? No. Me neither.

But I also don't. I'm not as dialed. Like, I could maybe. Okay. So she confronted him about it, and he told her that he did finger a 15 year old.

Okay.

When he was. I forget the age, and it seems important.

It does. 60. Let me see if I can find that specific one. That was from, like, two lists ago.

I think. Two. Two or three.

Okay, so when he was 20, he fingered a 15 year old he met through Facebook.

Okay. Yeah. So when he was 20 and he went to jail.

Oh, my God.

Right? Isn't that what it says on there?

Yeah. He went to jail for three months and did six months of group therapy, then four years of individual therapy.

So the question was basically, can I still date him?

Yeah.

And my answer was yes.

Yeah, same.

Okay. I wondered if you. Cause you have some sensitivities around.

Well, there's a few things, like, going on, and I'm, of course, giving the greatest benefit of the doubt, but I can at least craft a narrative where it's like, okay. It's not like you met her coming out of her 9th grade class. Right? So, like, first of all, sure. You're like, you see someone and the age gap, 2015, it's not like people look that different. Right.

But he knew. It says he knew.

He knew.

Yeah. He knowingly did do it. He said that to her. The reason I said it was okay is because of the way he's handling it.

Yeah, I agree. Like, he did the time, he did the therapy. He's honest about it and not lying.

And not being defensive. He's just. He's telling her. Yeah, I mean, Liz was a little bit like, he should have told her, but I was like, how is he gonna. I mean, I get. I think he should have told her, but I don't know about the timeline. Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You want to give it. You want to probably be given a fair shake.

I think so, too.

I'm not, like, probably on a first date telling a girl, I tried her up 711, and I drove drunk seven nights a week, and I had the x amount of sexual partners. Like, that's all to come.

Yeah. That's like a slow burn.

Yeah. I'm not leading with the laundry list of terrible things I've done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway, I just thought. I wondered, what if you had a. If you were gonna have a different take?

But, yeah, I guess if I'm being dead honest, what I'm probably trying to assess in that situation is, like, do I think this person's a pedophile? Because do I think pedophilia is easily treated with a few months in jail and then I don't know. And if it's a 30 year old and a twelve year old, like, to me, it's just, like, very black and white. Okay. This is like, you're attracted to young people when you're 15 and 20. I would be hesitant to label that pedal pedophilia.

Right.

I would not advise someone to date a pedophile.

No, no, no. It's still a thing. It's still bad. Like, I'm not. I'm not saying what is the question is not what he did was bad or not bad. Right, correct. That is bad and illegal, which is why he went to jail. But I think, for me, I think people can redeem themselves. Yeah, but you're right. I mean, if there's, like, a pathology.

It doesn't seem like a pathology to me. 15 and 20 is a very. A really bad decision, and he shouldn't have, but it doesn't sound like a sexual deviant.

Yeah, a pattern. Yeah, that's what I said. I said, proceed forward with a little. You have more information and knowledge.

So now if you go on his instagram and he's 30 and he's following a bunch of 18 year olds, then I'm like, yeah, we got it. This might be an issue. Yeah. Well, I had an incredible couple days, and I got invited to go to the Kelly Slater surf ranch.

Cool.

Which is in the middle of the state. It's not on the ocean. And it was, I think, originally, like, one of these water ski parks where they do competitive water ski jumps and shit. In the middle of the fucking desert.

Yeah.

So they took over that facility, and they. They still have, like, a little wakeboarding mini lake, but then next to that is this huge, huge basin, and it's 700 yards long, so it's seven football fields long. And this huge train car basically moves down a track being pulled by a cable, and it creates a wave, and you can set it at different waves.

Yeah.

So it can be a perfect competition. Six foot wave with a barrel at this zone and then the notes can. A barrel over there. It's really fascinating. Then there's an intermediate wave. You're learning.

Did he invent it?

He did.

Did he patent like.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow, that's so cool.

And it took years. Like, this was a huge. He's been on this for like, 20 years. They've now been. There's more. There's one in Dubai. They're building one in Texas and maybe somewhere else. And then there's now competing groups that have make these things. But I've never surfed, ever. I mean, I went into it, like, really owning up to everybody around. I don't know what I'm doing. I was like, really? Because my goal was to be able to accept direction and advice and coaching. And so I have a bad pattern of acting like I know how to do everything before I do it and then can fake a lot of that stuff. I can pick stuff up kind of quickly. And then I've. I've passed some chasm where now I can't ask for advice because I was already posing as someone that knew what they were doing. Whatever. So I went into it completely, like, I've never done this and now I'll likely suck. And let's go. And I did good. The first wave, I got up the intermediate wave and I wrote it for a while and. And then it progressed. On day two, I started riding the ct waves.

They call it so, like, the six foot tall waves.

Whoa.

And I mean, mostly, I have to say, there is this dude there, a tahitian dude who's, like, a very famous big wave surfer and kind of lifestyle surfer. The most, like, attractive being, like, tahitian. Big, strong, friendly. And this dude would be on a surfboard lying down and he would time it perfectly. So right as I'm entering the wave and trying to stand up he would reach out and hold my surfboard while it was wiggly so I could stand. And a couple of times, Monica, I was falling off. I fell off.

Yeah.

And he grabbed me in the air and stuck me back on the surface.

Oh, my God. How cool it was.

Oh, my God. Yeah, it was incredible. This guy is incredible. I fell in love with him. And so the first two days, I was definitely getting a lot of help too, from mana and. But then the last day, yesterday, I did a session in the morning. It was just me. And I did. I surfed a bunch. And it was really fun. It was really fun. It's such a special place you're in. Like, I had my own little airstream.

Oh, fun.

Yeah. For, like, lodging. You're in the airstream. The food was really delicious. It was a really special, lucky three days. I couldn't believe I got to be there.

Cool.

Yeah.

I think people really dream of going to this place. Like surfers. What's cool about is when they have. They can have a competition there, and then every surfer gets the same wave. So when you're trying to judge these surfers out in the ocean, you're judging them on different waves.

Yeah.

So it's very cool in that way. It kind of standardizes the competition. But I got. I was humiliated with how fatigued my shoulders and triceps got. I mean, I couldn't do the last session, which was really hard for me to admit. I had done the morning one, and my arms hurt so bad when I got out, I had to, like, go to my airstream and eat a leave. But I was, like. I was moaning as I went. Like, I felt like I had been in a motorcycle accident. That's how, like, fucking fatigue.

Well, you don't use those muscles in that way at all.

And then it's not even just the paddling. It's that you're laying on this board and you have your head pulled up. So you're like doing a crab, kind of. So you're paddling as hard as you can, but your head's up and. Yeah, it's really intense. Yeah. So I felt really unathletic and weak and should be discarded by society because I ran out of endurance by the end.

Are you going to surf here now? Ever?

It's interesting. I was like, this is, like, the greatest privilege and gift to have gotten this experience and probably ruins me wanting to surf, because if I go surf now, like, I liked it for sure. It's a very cool feeling. If I go out to Malibu, there's going to be 20 people in the wave. You're competing for the wave. I don't know how to read the ocean. Like, I don't know which one I should attempt. Yeah, you're paddling. If I was fatigued on this wave, you know, you're, like, paddling out to the break.

Yeah.

It's so much more intense, which, not saying I won't do it, it just. I'm aware of the fact that it was a very dreamy version I got to do.

Yeah.

And so I'm not sure. I mean, I'll tell you this. If I ever get invited back there. I will be there in two. Two shakes. Fun of a lamb's tail. It was just fun and novel, and it was something completely new that I've never tried.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah.

Did anyone drown?

No one drowned. I have videos of me, and I am so stiff at the end of the night, they would put together, like, highlights of the day, and everyone gathers around, and you're eating dinner, and it's fun, and they're cutting to people, and people look awesome. Surfing. And when you look at me every single time, I look stunning. Stiff as a two before I'm up and I'm doing it, but I am so stiff, and I'm like, I have got to get loose because I know the key to motorcycle riding is, like, you got to be loosey goosey. Like, you're like a spaghetti noodle on that thing. You can't be tight anywhere. And I'm like, I got to loosen up. But anyways, cool.

Well, that was fun. I'm glad you got to do that. Okay, so this is for Coleman. Coleman, reminder to people that if you want to see this movie.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, you can. One of the many fringe benefits of listening to armchair expert.

Yes.

Bless your heart.

Thank you.

May rest in heaven with our one and true love.

Knock on wood, please.

Our lord and savior, you join him and walk hand in hand again.

Okay. So you can see sing sing for free. If you are an armchair, there will be a dedicated link, and we'll put it on stories, but we'll also put it in the show notes. And you can enter your email and location, and you can redeem a free ticket and see Sing Sing at a theater.

Look at this.

So awesome.

This is our first giveaway. We're moving more into the zone of Oprah and Ellen now we're finally giving stuff away. It's not our stuff, but it wasn't their stuff, let's be honest.

That's true.

Yeah. So I feel fine.

Yeah. Fine about it.

Try to give some more stuff away.

Soon, too, if people give us stuff to give you. Yes. But check that out.

Yeah.

And check Coleman out. And fun fact, Easter egg on Thursday, we have another person who's involved in sing Sing, so we got a whole sing wink, wink.

Yeah, it's kind of an incarceration week.

Yeah, it is.

Oh, also, I want to throw this out here just cause it's a very kind of landmarky thing. So tomorrow is August 20, and that is the 20 year anniversary of without a paddle. Separate to that, I've been in a weird sim phase where a lot of people lately have been bringing up without a paddle to me. Like, I hadn't heard about it in a while from people. And then, like, just back to back to back, I've ran into people that brought up without a paddle. So, anyways, yes, tomorrow's a 20 year anniversary. It's a very important anniversary for me that really starts the beginning of incredible fun on life and movies and tv and. And so I am planning something special. If you're a without a paddle superfan, I'm trying to put together something special to commemorate this. And what's probably happening for people who loved without a paddle is I. It always made me feel old because, as you know, I would run into people because it was always young people who loved it. And then they would tell me when they were a kid, they liked it, and I was an old person already.

But now these people, it's kind of a fuck you back to them to go. Like, that was 20 years ago, guys. So I'm kind of getting even, too, which is always.

Yeah, but they weren't babies. They weren't newborns.

They weren't. They were, like, twelve. But now they have to admit, oh, yeah. Yeah. Age, it'll get you.

It gets all of us.

It'll get you good. I've been thinking about my age lately, insofar as. Do you remember when we would say, see, like, posts? That's like, reminder, Brad Pitt's 50 now.

I'll never forget when Macaulay Culkin posted, like, hey, guys, I'm 40 today. Sorry. Hey, do you want to feel old? I turned 40 today.

Okay. Okay.

Pretty good.

Yeah.

So I just. It's always Brad Pitt whenever he enters a new decade. And I certainly. And mind you, he's only ten years older than I am, or maybe a little more or less, whatever. And all those numbers seem pretty big to me when Brad was hitting those, like, oh, my God, Brad's 50.

Yeah.

Now he's 60.

Yeah.

And I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, it's a thing whether you want it to be or not.

I know, I'm. I feel that way, too. It's. My birthday is coming up. Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about it.

Have you? Good or bad things?

Bad things.

Bad things.

It's not even bad things. There was a meme I saw that.

Said, monica, padman, you're getting old.

No, it just said, if you have a friend who's a Virgo, check in on them. It's their birthday month and they're probably very anxious, which is good. And, yeah, to me, it's weird, because when we all think about age, we fear that what it will do is make us think about what we haven't accomplished yet. But that's not really the feeling I feel. I feel very proud and happy with what I've accomplished, where you're at in life, where I'm at in life. And I also feel very optimistic about my future as well. It's just closer to death.

Mmm. Okay. That's what it is for you.

There is a limited time here.

It's finite, Zachary. Yeah.

And it's shorter and shorter. It's important for us to forget that day to day. But as a birthday approaches, you do start realizing, oh, wow, like, I'm 37 years in now. I'm edging closer, ever closer to the finish line. Yeah.

Now, see, I don't have that because I feel really quite youthful. Like, even trying to surf this week, I wasn't like, oh, I would have picked this up better when I was 25. I don't think that I'm like, yeah, I'm in it. So my day to day, experiential version of my age is like nothing. I'm never feeling old. I'm never feeling lazy or lethargic or disinterested or any of those things. It's really just me stepping outside of what I think the perception of me is as I get older.

Oh, yeah, yours is more.

Yeah. I'm probably more distracted by that aspect of it.

Well, in some ways, at the beginning of what you said is the same thing I'm saying. Like, I feel 25, like, I feel young.

Yeah.

And I feel that I look young. It's nothing like that. That. It's just. I feel this way. But the reality is I'm getting closer to the halfway point.

Surely.

I like being here. I'd like to be here for a long time, and that makes me a little upset.

Yeah. Once you know that you will, they'll be less ahead of you than is behind you, which is definitely where I'm at. Like, well, okay, the greatest case scenario, I'm hitting 100, but that's a really great case scenario could happen. So even at that, this year, I'd go, okay, well, there's more behind me than in front of me.

No halfway.

But on the day one of my birthday, I'll have tipped it.

Well, maybe you can live to be 101.

Okay, tell me more.

We don't know what's gonna happen with medicine.

We don't. We don't.

Okay. We talked about dinner parties, and that was a fun conversation. And he was saying something about making veggies, that he makes a lot of veggies. And that made me wonder how many people like veggies.

Mmm.

Sure.

So according to a 2021 survey. This is by People.

People magazine.

Yeah.

Okay.

75% of Americans consider themselves reformed vegetable lovers and say they enjoy eating vegetables more now than when they were children. The survey also found that 68% of respondents say vegetables are being used in more innovative ways, and 52% say that this has made them vegetable fanatics.

Oh, my God. More than half of people are vegetable fanatics.

Yeah.

I'm not seeing that. If I can just be honest, as I travel through the world and I'm at restaurants, that's not what I see. And are we counting french fries as a vegetable? No. Right?

No. Well, we're not.

Right. That's crazy.

Okay. But there's a new. On another thing, a.com a poll reveals American's favorite and most hated vegetables. Okay.

Okay. Potatoes gotta be number one, right?

Okay. I'm gonna be candid that this is from Fox News.

Okay.

Okay. A new survey asked 2000 us residents to identify their favorite vegetable. And the new king of veggies is.

Potato.

Nope. But you're kind of on the right track. Ish.

Quinoa.

No, that's a grain.

What is it?

Corn.

Oh, sure.

I know. And, like, I don't really count that, right?

Yeah.

Okay. Cracking.

Well, by the way, whether it's your favorite vegetable or not, everyone's eating more corn than they're eating anything else because it's so subsidized and it's in everything.

Cracking. The top three, along with corn, which is 91.4% of Soyez survey respondents said they were among vegetables that they liked were potatoes.

Mm hmm. It's the best one.

Barely missing out on the number one spot with 91.2% approval.

Okay.

It's not the best one. I love loaded baked potato more than anyone.

Potatoes, all gratin.

I love potatoes.

Scalloped potatoes.

I would never include it as a vegetable. To me, that is not a vegetable.

Of course, in your, like, nice cooked meal at home, where you invite friends. Yeah, but french fries are the best thing in the world. We would agree.

Actually.

What?

I prefer a loaded baked potato over french fries.

What? What about the crisscross french fry at Emmy square? That thing is, like, an explosive.

I don't even remember it.

Wow.

And I remember the broccoli.

Sad day. That is great.

Yeah. That's so great.

Delicious waffle fry. Right. It's a waffle fry.

Oh, yeah. I like them, but I don't. I want a loaded baked potato, a scalloped potato. I also love, I love a potato chip.

Mm.

But french fries aren't my favorite. I mean, I love a French. Who doesn't love a french fries?

McDonald's french fries.

Yes. I agree that if any, I'm picking that.

Yeah.

Okay. Carrots and tomatoes are tied for third and 889 percent.

That makes sense.

Except tomatoes are a fruit.

I know, but we're gonna say they're a vegetable.

No, because, okay. I can't in good conscience. I mean, they are counting it, but. Ooh, another one. I'm like, onions, sure.

But not to eat more. Just as a flavoring. You almost have to have onion and things for them to taste like anything.

Yeah, but no one's eating, eating that on its own.

Except for in Walla Walla, Washington, where they have the Walla walla onion festival, and you eat them like apples. Walla walla sweet onions. Sweet onions. Never done it, but I've always been intrigued by it.

Okay.

I wonder if people hook up at the Walla Walla sweet onion festival. It seems a little dicey, but if.

They'Re all eating it, that's fine. Okay. Onions and green beans, both at 87%.

Where's broccoli on this list?

Okay, exactly. Beets.

Oh, here's the we're gonna hear from. Oh, wait, wait, wait.

Sorry. According to the results, our most hated veggie is the turnip.

Sure. It's terrible. That's why it's got a t and r. They were trying to make it sound as close to terrible as they.

It's kind of an onomatopoeia.

It is.

Okay. Beets is 26%. Radishes, 23%. These are least liked beets.

Well, yeah. Radish.

As everyone knows, I don't like beets.

Yeah.

Period.

Yeah.

Even though I.

You don't have to sound off in the comments because we already heard from everyone. We know that people are.

And they can know that I'm forcing them down.

Yeah.

Because I know they're healthy. Radishes. Brussels sprouts. So this is all negative, which is we love Brussels sprouts.

I would argue those people just haven't have really well prepared Brussels sprouts.

Well, that's what the beet people said about me.

Yes, that's true. Okay. But Brussels sprouts can be made way better than beets. I agree. That's my favorite vegetable.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good one. Yeah, broccoli's my fave.

Broccoli's up there for me, too.

What's yours?

I like broccoli. I love tomatoes.

No, we're not.

I love potatoes. What?

I don't want to count tomatoes.

Okay. Okay.

I love tomatoes, too. If I were really counting them, I would pick that.

I love iceberg lettuce. Are you counting that as a vegetable?

Barely.

I just had a wedge last night again.

Oh, yum.

There's nothing better than a wedge, in my opinion. It's so good.

I would love it if it wasn't blue cheese.

I know you don't love blue cheese, and I.

But if it's a ranch dressing on it, I'll.

With blue cheese crumbles. No, you want cheddar? Because I just ordered you feta.

I could do feta.

Feta's a nice option.

Okay, so you love. You love iceberg.

Love iceberg. Love tomatoes. Potatoes, tomato.

You just want to keep.

Yeah, I'm going to keep it in there because that was on the list.

Okay.

And a brussels sprout, done correctly. Or as we in the Le bow household always said, mussel brouts.

Right?

I like them. Yeah.

What about peas? I love peas.

I'm ambivalent about them. You know what I like is when they're dotting something else. Like, I get. There's an indian rice mix that will often. They'll add peas to the yellow rice. It pop, pop. Little pop.

Yeah. I love a pea pop in a salad.

Yeah.

That's fun. Yeah, that's. I agree.

Okay.

Okay. This was brought to you by vegetables. We are supported by vegetables. Hello. Hello. Hello. Time to eat your veggies.

God. Okay. America's favorite. Now I'm at the list. I was reading, and now I'm at the list. So I'm just gonna go through quickly. Okay. All right, favorite. America's favorite vegetables, 2019. In order, corn, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, onion, green beans, cucumbers, broccoli, cabbage, peas.

Hello. Peas.

Okay. Least favorite in order, turnip, beets, radish, brussels sprouts, artichoke. That's a problem.

I understand it again, if you don't do an artichoke, well, they're terrible. But if you do them good, they're the best.

Are these people thinking about the canned ones?

Who knows? Or the leaves? And they didn't learn to eat the meat.

They thought you were supposed to swallow that.

Who knows? They thought eat a yucca, basically. Okay.

I love artichokes. Okay. Eggplant.

Yeah. Agreed.

No, I love eggplants.

I like a good cooked eggplant.

I just bought one from a farmer's market. I'm so excited.

Mush city. It's so mushy.

You're mush city.

The only good thing about the eggplant is the emoji that came out of it.

Have you ever had a good eggplant parmesan? Like, a good, good eggplant parmesan?

I don't like it. I've tried it many times, especially when I was vegan. Okay, I guess I'm switching to eggplant parmesan.

Yeah, but you have, like.

No, I'm just doing no parmesan now.

You have to roast the shit out of them like, real. Most people don't. Allison taught me that. Alison Roman.

Yeah.

You gotta turn it into a goo.

I fucking love it. Actually, she put an eggplant pasta up recently. That was so good. I'm making it tonight now that we're talking about this.

Okay.

Okay. Butternut squash.

I've had it good.

I've had it. Good. We went through a period of time where we would order a salad from a specific place that I do love. I love this salad. And it had beets and it had butternut squash. And so I would say, no, beets. And the butternut squash, I would say, sure, of course. And I would pick around the butternut squash every time.

Every time. Yeah.

Okay. Zucchini. I love zucchini.

Well, but when are you ever eating zucchini? Unless it's deep fried.

No, no, I cook with it all the time.

Or pickled. I've never had pickled zucchini, but I've had fried zucchini. And I like. But I like every single thing I've ever had that was fried.

Okay, then mushrooms, which I love.

I love them. But I know they're polarized.

They are polarizing.

And I agree. The texture is dicey. It's like what you would imagine biting into a brain is like.

People are really obsessed with texture.

I'm one of them. Yeah.

And then if we had video, people could have seen my face.

They will start seeing your face and your eye rolls.

I'm gonna get them under control.

They'll see all the daggers shoot my.

Way, and they'll see why.

Maybe.

Okay.

I'm still gonna probably cover my face when I do impressions, even for the audience.

That feels.

I think it's too much for them too. Yeah.

Okay. Asparagus is the last one. I also love asparagus.

I do too. It's great. But it does have I understand it. You make sure pe smell.

Yeah, whatever. Yeah, I like that because it's like, I know it worked. I know it made its way through.

That is fun. Yeah. You get that direct connection.

Same with when beesden make your PMP pink.

I have been scared by beets. I think a lot of people have. You think you have internal bleeding because your shit is blood red. You're like, oh, my God, did I eat a sharp object? And you're like, no, I had beets.

I wonder how many people have gone to the hospital because they ate beets.

16,000 a year.

Okay. I found no evidence that Antoine Fuqua, the director, esteemed director, he brought up the boxing thing, and I think. Cause he's done. He did like seven southpaw, so he probably made them box.

But he also made the tank movie with Brad Pitt and Pena. And I think those guys had to box. Not Pitt was excluded, I think, from the boxing.

Oh, interesting. Well, maybe he wanted a certain body type or something. He does like boxing. This director does, but I didn't find anything that said he makes all his actors box.

Okay.

And that's it.

That was everything.

Not very many facts for Coleman. Beautiful guy. Great episode. I really loved his energy.

I was smitten with him.

Yeah, me too.

As I am with his work as an actor. All right. Love you. I love you. I love you.

I love you.

Love you.

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