Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Sheppard. I'm joined by Monica Padman.

Hi there.

I'm going to say this is the craziest life story we've heard from anyone on the show. It's an impossible life story.

I told a lot of people afterwards, after we recorded this episode, that it was a very special one.

Me too. It's the biggest delta that's ever been covered in a lifespan in two years. Our guest today is Ky Hui Kwan. And of course, you fell in love with him in Indiana Jones in the Temple of Dune, and the Goonies, as I did as a little boy. Then, fuck, he came back out of nowhere in everything, everywhere, all at once. He was so incredible.

Just such a beautiful performance.

Yes. When you hear his life story, you want to go back and rewatch.

I feel like we were almost crying the whole time.

Yeah, that's fair. Also, you can see he currently in season two of Loki on Disney+. So please enjoy Ki Hwi Kwan. He's an armcherex man. He's an armcherex man.

You came to visit us when we were shooting everything everywhere all at once.

A thousand %. You did? I intend to tell that story. You still live in Woodland Hills? Yeah. How long was that drive for you? Was it easy?

An hour.

It was an hour.

Friday is the worst. I miss the time where I used to live in Covina. I don't know you know where that is. Yes.

Well, I know West Covina.

Yeah, it's this is the next exit down. I used to go from Covina to Beverly Hills. But back in the '90s, it used to take me only 45 minutes. Now, I can't even travel more than 10 miles without taking 45 minutes. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, Covina to Beverly Hills. Now, that's a 90-minute drive for sure. Twice as long. I want to start with a very simple question, which is every time I hear someone introduce you, they go full Kiwi Kwan. I've never heard anyone say just your first name?

Everybody calls me Ki, and sometimes they'll say Key Kwan, sometimes they'll say Key Huy Kwan. But as long as you say my name, I'm happy.

Okay, but I just also where people were reaching out, so I was getting offers.You're back to school where every kid's interested in you. It's all very familiar. That's right. You have a hunch this is going to go away, just like it always has.You're interested for five minutes.The fear that all of this is going to go away. I felt like I had to make the right decision on the next step, and that was really hard.Well, you joined the Marvel Universe. That's a great- But that was before the Oscars.I did that in 2022. It was after the movie had came out, before all the accolades. It was slowly growing. Then I got that wonderful call from Kevin Fahee about joining Loki. And then I had that. I was very proud of it. And then the Oscars, the Golden Globes, the SAG, came after that.The amount of heightened experiences you've had.Both ways.Yeah, all the directions. Spielberg sent him Christmas His Presence for 39 years. Yes.I love him.It's hard not to love this guy.I love him, too. Oh, my God. He is the sweetest. When I won the Oscar during one of those commercial breaks, I went up to him, gave him a big hug, and I told him, I said, Steven, I hope I made you proud tonight. And he said, Kyiv always made me proud. Yeah.That's too much. I love it. You were celebrated from Loki, too. You won a TV Critics' Choice Award.I was nominated I didn't.Oh, you didn't win? No. Well, then I take that back.Honestly, that was such a huge gift of being given that opportunity to play Orborus.Can I say something really quick about Steven Spielberg? I feel like he must feel some responsibility for you. The present say that a little bit. I plucked this boy out of his elementary school and changed his life.I have some responsibility.I have some responsibility to him to make sure it's good. Not that he should have felt that, but I could see him feeling that way. Has he said anything to you as such? No.I mean, he's given me so much. He was the first filmmaker to put an Asian kid in a big Hollywood movie, and he didn't do it one time. He did it two times. He changed not only my life, but also my family's life. So he's given me so much. I don't know how he felt, but I would never say that he should be responsible for it because he's already Oh, my gosh, I could never ask for anything more than what he's already- But I just mean he seems like such a...He seems like such an incredible person and soul that I can imagine that he probably took that out of it.Over the years, I would do something and I would get a card in the mail and said, Ki, I just saw you in this. You were brilliant. He was keeping an eye on you. Yeah, he was keeping an eye on me.So, Ki, what are you doing next? I know you were in kung fu Panda for.Yeah, that was my first voiceover ever.And how did you like it?I loved it. It was a very different experience. I think doing voiceover work, you have to place your faith and trust in the filmmakers more than live-action because I didn't get to read the full script. I didn't know what was going on. So I was in a recording booth with two of my directors, and I just have to believe that whatever I'm giving them is good enough.I have no knowledge ofNo context.context of what I'm doing.You're doing the performance in a vacuum. Yeah. It's so weird. I'm bad at it. I've done a bit of it, and it does not come easy for me. It's almost like the opposite of what I had to train myself to do as an actor, which is be calm, be still, have patience, undersell it. I would think your voice is so beautiful.It's like, perfect for it.Well, just to be so heightened, my fear is of like, oh, my God, I'm being so broad right now and terrible. But that's what it calls for. With all this stress on your shoulders, what are you doing next?I just finished a movie for Universal Studios. It's called With Love. My first ever movie as the number one on call sheet in a major studio film.That's so exciting.Are you allowed to tell us what it's about?It's an action movie produced by David Leach and Kelly McCormick, who did The Fall Guys.Yes, I know David Leach for years. Yeah, he's great.It's an '87 North movie. It's a big action movie. We had a lot of fun. I grew up watching Jackie Chan and Samuel Hong, the Hong Kong '80s action movies, and they all did their own fights. So going into this one, I knew the very first thing that I wanted to do was to do all my fights. There's something special about watching a movie knowing that the actors are doing it all and not some stunt double. I completely agree. But then mentally, I think I'm 21. Yeah. But then when I do it, I'm surprised. I go, Oh, wow. I'm feeling really proud because I can do the moves. Then I wake up the next day and go, Oh, my God. Like my back, but nothing a couple of Tylenol wouldn't fix.I cannot recommend enough for people to go back and watch the early Jackie Chan movies from Hong Kong because he was Buster Keaton. I mean, he's jumping out of buildings. He's jumping onto busses from 40 feet. I mean, the amount of stunts he did, we've never seen anything like that.I don't think we will ever see anything like it again, because now you wouldn't put an actor in that position. I mean, he's What a story. My God. Really quick, I am landing the plane, but did cross my mind. It's almost like an epic, your life. In your 20 years of wandering, did you ever have the fantasy, you know who's going to call me? Quentin Tarantino. He should. Because he has this history of bringing back people that we all loved. Did you ever let yourself fantasize that maybe he was going to call you?No.It's a weird question.I love him. I'm a big fan of his movies.But he only brought Travolta back. And he brings Don Johnson back.I never had that. I didn't know this, but being an Asian actor in Hollywood, we're conditioned to think a certain way. Let me give you an example. When 87 North, David Leach and Kelly McCormick came to me with love, I read the script and I said, Oh, you got the wrong person. This script is written for somebody else, for a white actor. And I actually passed on it. And they came back the second time and they go, Read it again. And I passed the second time. Oh, my Lord. And then they go, We want you to come in. And I remember meeting them in person, and they have slides of me as that character. And I was staring at it, and I'm looking at David Leach, who was one of the biggest directors in Hollywood. And I said, How come he can see me in this role, and I can't see myself in this role. It dawned on me that because my entire life, when I go to a movie theater, when I watch a movie similar to this, it always stars.Go ahead, say it. Someone like you.Someone not like me.Ryan Reynolds, that type. Yeah.I didn't know that I was conditioned to think a certain way. When you said, did I ever dream a director like Tarantino would call me one day? No, I never did. I dreamt that I would get a call from my agent telling me, there's this great role for you. I think you're perfect for it. We're going to send you out. Given the opportunity to try, to prove to them, to try to convince the filmmaker and the producer that I am right for this. And ever since the Oscars, I'm very grateful for everything that's happened since. But it's so interesting how all these years I thought I was good for it, but nobody thought I'd be perfect for it. Everything everywhere had to happen. I had win an Oscar.And now it's flipped. Now they all think you can do it, and you're worried you can't. Yeah.Isn't that interesting?It is. And it's so common. The flip that has to happen once you've achieved something you wanted, you have to reset your whole brain. We say on here all the time, I know what it's like to try to build something. I don't know what it's like to try to keep something. And it's a completely different mindset, and you have to rise to that occasion. And so, yes, you have to now do some to believe in yourself in the way these other people do.But it's a minority's dilemma. It's extra, right? Because, yeah, you're growing up proving yourself the whole time.You have to be exceptional.Yes, you have to be exceptional. Like you said, you don't even dream the same dreams the other hegemonic group does because that's just not part of the story. And so once you get there, to rewire, as in, No, I'm a part of this group now, is very hard.It's a very hard transition back to identity.I love Dan Kwan, half of the Daniels. Dan Kwan says something that I really love and resonated with me. He said, Today's system is made up of follicle stories, meaning the stories of the past, something similar to that. And he said, If we want a new system, we have to make up new stories. For the last few years, I'm really grateful that Hollywood has opened up its doors for a lot of different groups of people that were never previously to those opportunities. And now they are. And we are creating new stories that's going to change whatever future that's going to come.And, Keith, they're already the best ones we've had over the last 10 years. You have Atlanta, this Black perspective. You have Rami, this Muslim perspective you have everywhere, they're immediately among the very best that have ever been made.It's really interesting. And that's why I wake up every day thinking, wow, it's great where things are going.A new dawn.Yeah, a new dawn. Exactly.Well, Key, thank you so much. This was delightful and life affirming, and I loved every second of it.Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Monica. Thank you, Dax. This is incredible. I was really nervous coming here.I hope it subsided. We'll come back and we'll talk about your movie. Yeah, come back next time.Valentine.Thank you so much.All right. Be well. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. Hello, Monica.Hi, Dax. Sheppard.Yeah, my voice went really high there, didn't it?Hello, Monica. What's the highest you can go?Well, I just ate a bunch of weird food at a for real Smorgasborg. I think maybe the world's first Smorgasborg.Fun.Well, because I'm in...You're in smorgas town?I'm in Smorgasborg, Norway. Where are you? I am not. I'm not really. I don't even know if this place has a name. It's a nice place. It has a name that's so tiny. But it did have a real life called the smorgasborg.And what did you eat?Okay, I ate too many things. Shit, I'm jumping ahead. I was about to show you the view. But yes, okay, so I ate a bunch of prime rib, but I also got into the potatoes all grotten hard. There's a lot of dairy and cheese. And then, guess what I did? I had dessert. They had a delicious strawberry ice cream that I smothered in a vanilla sauce.Vanilla sauce?Yes, with It's also a berry sauce. It was divine. So when you ask how high can I go, I'm a little handicapped at the moment with how high I could go. But I'll try. You ready?I want you to try. Yeah.Okay, let me clear out my instrument. Please cut this. Hi, Monica.That's pretty good.That's good. Let me try again. Let me try again. Okay.Let me close my-Hi. Yeah.It's best if you do, because I really don't want you to see me I'm going to cover my camera. Okay. Hi. Hi, Monica. Yeah. It's not good.It sounds-It sounds terrible. It sounds not high. It's like your voice sounds different, but it doesn't sound high.Yeah, it just sounds weaker, my voice.Yeah, it sounds like a mouse.Too much dairy.Okay, we're going to blame. Okay.We'll try it on the next one. I'll keep my instrument clean. I'll be preparing.So you have not cheated, though.What, on gluten?On the things you wouldn't eat at Letterman's house.Oh, no, I haven't. You know what I did have over... It's been a week now. I did have a bite of a croissant one morning. I had a bite of a croissant because Because- That's huge. Fuck do I love a croissant, especially when you're on the other side of the pond. They know how to make them. But that's it.I feel validated.Oh, you do? Okay.Yeah, I do. I feel that you should have a little bit of Letterman's garlic bread.Tell Dave I'll have a bite of a croissant if he makes it for me.Oh, man. Okay. Okay, let me see your view.Okay. I'm going to take you as far as I can. Let's see here. Hold on. I'll submit a picture, too, so the viewer knows what you're also seeing.Oh, gorgeous.Monica, that's a fjord.Oh, wow.That's a real fjord.Can you explain what a fjord is?Yeah. So you could think of it as maybe a bay, but if a bay was super skinny and 100 or 200 miles long. So all of this glacial water comes down all these mountains, and it fills up this bay. There's just so much water as we're driving here, there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of waterfalls. They're everywhere.Oh, beautiful.The fjords are these super steep cliffs, and it's this long channel that's maybe, I don't know, at some points it's three miles wide, maybe at some points it's 15 miles wide, and it ultimately goes to the ocean. But it's the most gorgeous. We took a ferry ride yesterday on that thing Eric was telling you about, the Tour of the Nutshell, whatever it was called. And it was pretty impossible. It looked like a screen saver or AI generated. Wow.Cool.Now, I could do an hour and a half on my thoughts about being here, both in Iceland and here in Norway. I have so many thoughts. Number one thought probably is this is the nicest day of the year, and it's 58, and it was gray all day. It's a harsh, harsh environment. It's really harsh. And I was sitting on the side of the road today while the kids were running around these trails and playing in the snow and stuff. And I was like, at some point in human history, people left Africa and they headed north, and they went through Spain, and they went through Italy and Greece, and then they got up into Germany. Still very good fertile land. They were passing all these areas where tons of crops grew, and olives, and tomatoes. And they were like, let's keep going north. And they got up here and they were like, Okay, it's dark half the year. It's cold 10 months of the year. Nothing grows. Let's not go back to where we just walked through with all the tomatoes and the sunshine. Let's stay here. That is such an interesting thought to me.Maybe they got stuck.I would say this place is more of a cultural shock than I've experienced in many other places. I'm experiencing it maybe more here than I did in India.No way.Yes. And I'm going to say this with tons and tons of respect to our Scandinavian friends. They're very stoic. They're very quiet. I think they can't stand us. I don't know. I think we're loud and gross and Maybe it's in my mind. Maybe I'm just feeling less than, but it's so specific. And then I'm comparing that to the data we always hear, which is like, this is the happiest place to live in the world, but I'm not seeing much laughing or affection. Joy. Yeah. And I'm trying to... I was saying in the car today, it's like there's this disjunction between what I know and then what I observe. And of course, I'm observing it through my own cultural lens of how I define happiness. And I'm I'm mildly aware of that. But also it's very confusing. When you hear happiest place on Earth and you come and you've yet to see anyone smile.That is so interesting.And then I got it in my mind. I was like, Could these tests really even mean anything Because you're asking people what their experience is. And I can already tell that culturally, no one would ever complain here. That just culturally, no one would ever say this sucks. It's not stoic enough. So it's like, what does this data mean? How is it gathered.It's also all relative. Maybe they're happy. It might be different than what we think is happy.And I think there's that. I think there's also these are means, right? These are averages of all the countries. And I think, well, what they definitely don't have is 20 % of their population suffering an abject poverty like we have. Yeah. So then you're just wondering, well, what would these stats look like if you logged that off? If you took out the bottom 20 % of our country and just chose to ignore that, what happens? Are you seeing extra happiness? Are you just seeing an average that's slightly above because there's no suffering on the bottom end? Does that make sense?Yeah, it does. I think more than that, though, it's conditioning. We in America are very conditioned to want.Yeah. And so happiness- Yeah, we don't have the just right saying here. What is it?Shalom?Lagoum?It's not lagoum, but it's Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.Not too much, not too little. We're like, no, no, there's no such thing as too much.Yeah. We are conditioned to want. So that's why I think most people say they're not happy or they're not content. But In some of these other places, they're very much taught that- Be content.Be content.Content. It doesn't mean super high highs or super low lows. It's just like middle.Yeah.But we like high highs here, and they come with lows.I'll give you the moment that is most... And again, it's hard to know if this is in my head, but I feel very strongly about this. The funniest moment, and it's repeated every few hours, when we all go in, all eight of us go into the gas station on the side of the road when we're driving and we get snacks, I'm positive, even though the person owns it and they would want to sell, I think they think, You guys are buying way too much stuff. I think they're disgusted by buy how much stuff we buy.Yes, I'm sure they are. Yeah, that's fascinating.Eric and I are both getting a couple of Coke Zeros for the car ride and then some waters, whatever. I'm like, even the owner wants to go like, I don't want you to buy this much.That's enough. Yeah.I don't want to sell this much stuff to you. This is totally inappropriate. And again, I don't know if I'm being triggered of being judged. It's all in my head. I'm not sure, but I do have this sense that they're pretty disgusted with how much stuff we buy at the gas station. And when we're ordering at restaurants, I can tell they're ribble. They've told us that's too much food. No. Oh, yeah. We were at a pizza place last night, and the guy said, That's too much food. You ordered that and that, and that's too much food.Are you getting testy with them or no?No, no, no. By the way, I want to be clear. They're so nice. Everyone here is nice. It's good folk. There's no question about it. Their country is so fucking beautiful. And also, I was thinking it's got to be annoying because there's got to be more tourists in this country than there are citizens. I mean, there's so many tourists here.Oh, wow. Really?Yeah. Well, in Iceland, we learned the number. It was preposterous. There's seven tourists to every one inhabitants of Iceland. Oh, my God. There's only four or 500,000 people that live in Iceland, and there's a few million people there on vacation. So you try to factor that in. That'd be annoying as hell. But all that to say, I've just been doing a lot of thinking about this happiest place on Earth thing. It's very interesting.Yeah, that is really interesting. And also because I've talked to Jess about it because he grew up... He spent 11 years in Sweden when he was young.Yeah.And he has a specific take on Sweden that most people don't. And it is to him, one note... Yes, there's a little bit of a bleak, like a darkness, a gray. And I was like, Would you want to go back there? And he said, I'm good.Yeah, it's just different. I'm not at all saying one's better or worse. It's impossible not to notice.Well, also within one year, you've been to basically the opposite Is it the opposite? You've been to India, and you've been to Norway.Yeah, there's like one person per 100 square mile here. Yes. And then when we were in India, it's like, it's on. Life is on. Yes. And there's a fervor and a noise.There's a vibrancy. Yeah. It's really interesting. When we were in Old Delhi, there's poverty everywhere. It's poor. It's like a struggle.But people are having a great time.Yeah, they are. And that is an interesting juxtaposition to what you're saying. There's no poverty, but it doesn't have that energy.Yeah. So then, of course, I think it's tempting to go back in history to wonder when this divergence happened. And you're thinking of the of Vikings, and you're thinking of their different forms of royalty that they had. But really, I think you need to go back to the first migration here. I think what I'm saying, the fact that someone preferred to be up here than to be down south where everyone had come from, it says a lot. That's who you're starting with. And then-Yeah, interesting. And of course, in Italy, those people got there and they're like, Hey, let's go. This is a party. This is fucking hundreds of miles from Africa. They didn't go very far. They're Like, these olives are growing everywhere. I don't know. It's been really fascinating. But again, what It's called All Four's.Oh, it better be sexy with that title.It is. It's by Miranda July, incredible author. And it's the Book of the Summer. Everyone's reading it.Everyone's going to be horny this summer? Yes, it is sexy. Great summer to be a A single dude.Definitely.Or you can be- And is it mostly about doggy style?No, it's about a woman who she's 45 and she is going to meet her friends in New York. Her husband suggests that she drive there and take a road trip, and she doesn't make it there. She stops an hour away and stays. Oh, wow. And stuff happens. It's midlife It's nice to see, but it's hot.She just pulls the Eject button on her life.Well, I'm like 100 pages in, so I don't know how this will end, but she stops basically an hour outside her home, gets a hotel hotel room and is planning on going back after the trip is over.Yeah. But she meets someone in the lobby?She meets someone at a gas station, and trouble ensues. It's so good.Listen, if people love that book, and they've already read, that reminds me of a couple of other books that are great, that are older, that are like that. But Erica Young, Fear of Flying. Have you ever read that?No.It's supposed to be one of the most seminal Feminist Works, and it introduces the concept. I've brought this up on here before, The Zippless Fuck. This is her. Oh, yeah, you have talked about that. You should really read Fear of Flying when you're done with this, if you're on it. If you wanted it to be a horny summer.Horny summer, yeah. Also, I started following the New York Times Book Review Instagram. There was a book that I'm really excited to read also after this. That also sounds horny. I definitely recommend it. I'm enjoying it.Okay. Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. There is something I wanted to add to our previous conversation because last night, Delta and I watched. Well, the last two nights, Delta and I have watched two more episodes.I've completed it.You're all done? Yeah. I think the thing we left out of our first conversation about it, which is really important, is they love it. I think it's so important. They love it so much. When that girl who's been injured is like, it's the best five years of my life, and I'm afraid the rest of my life is not even going to live up to it. She loves it. We had our own criticisms of certain observations, but I want to be clear. The reason I don't mind any of it is they want to do it so bad, and they're so happy doing it. Does it destroy their body? Yeah, probably. But so does football.Yeah. I mean, that's why I said, I think it's a very interesting depiction of being attached to an identity. Because they do love it, but there are real... There are issues, one being that they're 23 and have to have hip surgeries. That's rough. And some Some of them, as you keep watching, they like it, but they know it's not good for them, mentally, even. But they can't put it down because who are they if they put it down?Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is I have to be fair and make it equivalent to any other sport where people are really deciding like, yeah, man, I could get CTE. That's very common. Or I'm a boxer and I have to fucking lose 12 pounds in a week or I'm a boxer and I have to destroy my body. I think people want to write it off as something frivolous. But if you're going to write that off as frivolous, then I think you have to write off all sports as frivolous. I think it's either you think it's fine to basically trade your body for this pursuit or not.Yeah.Of course, I can't relate at all. I'm like, oh, my God, to be judged. God, they're like in the military. It's like, your kick sucked. Yes, ma'am.Excited to hear it. Yes, ma'am. Is so triggering. I mean, I can relate. I can relate to it more than probably most people can. And in the last episode, to the end of the season, and it's so sad. It's over, and they're going to have a new team next year, and some of these people won't be there. And I just was like, yeah, it's a testament to identity, but also community, this thing we keep learning over and over and over again, which is that is the most important thing. And that's what they're I had to lose. Sisterhood. Deep kinship and idea that only this group knows what this is like. I still feel that when I was watching, I was like, oh, God, I was thinking about my squads. I still feel that. Like, only I think those people on Earth, those 20 people, will know what that feeling was in that moment.Thirty-six. They're still cutting on my end.Oh, I mean for me. My squad was small.Oh, yeah.Still, when I think about all those people, we all had a shared experience. I don't know what most of those people are doing right now anymore, but we had this very special thing, and it's beautiful.Yeah. I think the craziest thing, the two craziest things are first, the flying up in the air down into the splits, landing straight in the splits is insane. I cannot believe it. It's like they're trying to break their hips. Yeah. But I think even crazier than that for me was the notion that they all have to report to a hair salon. And here's where the cultural thing is really wild, because you have one girl from New Jersey, which every city has got it to look, and But she's in Dallas, so they just send them all to the salon, and then they let these three human beings decide what color hair they should have. And they really have no say in it. And this guy was in this blonde, and they're like, You definitely need to be chestnut brown. And she's like, Okay. And they're just chopping and dying people's hair however they fucking want. And then you see them looking at the pictures later. It's like, they're not even sure they made the right decision. The coaches are like, Oh, I don't know. Was that the right color?I know. Not to mention, this is before they've made the team.Yes, they could still get caught.And they do. And it's just like, Oh, my. It's a mind fuck.It's a real all in, man. I've never seen an all-in where you actually also have to get whatever hair do they tell you to get. Other than the military, you should get in your head shaved and basic.Yeah.But fuck, they love it. Oh, my God. I was watching it with Delta, and I said, When someone gets cut, all the gals come around, they hug the person, and they're all crying. And I, of course, was like, I was panicked. I was like, God, if I was in that situation, I don't cry very easy. I'd have to really be trying. And I said to Delta, Do you think anyone's faked are fake crying? And she said, Oh, yeah, I think half of them are fake crying. No, they're not. And we were really looking, and there's no tears. Some of the people that were sobbing the hardest, their faces were bone dry.I think that they're not all crying. You can be sad and not cry.I think they're being really nice, but I don't know that they're... Well, Delta and I think only about half were actually crying.I think you'd be surprised what happens when you're in that much of a pressure cooker. Everyone's emotions are just ready to brim for anything.True, true, true. Heightened, heightened, heightened.Whether or not you actually are that sad, anything off kilter is going to make you cry. It's such an intense environment.Yeah. Okay, the other crazy moment, and I don't know, people probably not like that I ask this, but There's a storyline where a girl goes back home and you're meeting her parents, and the parents are being very honest about the fact that they only stayed together for the kids. And then the second the kids moved away, they got divorced. And so we're watching this whole thing, and Delta and I are snuggling in bed. I said, If mommy and daddy didn't like each other anymore, would you want us to stay married or would you want us to get divorced? I said, Because I would definitely stay married for you. Luckily, I like mommy, so that's not an issue. But I would do that so I could wake up in the same house with you every day. And I'm totally assuming she's going to say, Yeah, I'd want you to stay married. And she's like, No, you should never be with someone you don't want to be with for me. And I was like, How is this kid at nine years old? This fucking emotional Emotionally stable. Yeah. It blew my mind. It was almost like a rhetorical question.I just wanted to know how she felt about this dynamic. There's two adults crying, and I don't even know that she's ever even been introduced to this concept that parents might stay together. And so I'm almost like, well, if this is a kernel in her head, let's talk about it now. And she's just like, no, I would want you to- I also, I don't want to say that...She is very emotionally stable. But I don't want to say that if somebody had another opinion, that that means they're not emotionally stable, because I think both are very valid opinions.Yes, Lincoln, I didn't ask her. We didn't watch it together. But I know Lincoln would said she would want us to stay together no matter what. Yeah.Exactly. And that's fair and correct, too.Yeah, there's not a right or a wrong answer. It was just shocking to hear her say, I want you to be that.Especially to their dad. It's one thing if You're just having a philosophical debate about it, but telling your dad, Oh, it's okay. If you want to go.If you want to get out of here.If you want to ditch this popsicle stand, go ahead.Blow this joint.I 100,000 % would have said, Stay together. Stay together.I think that's most- Be miserable. Yeah, for me, because I need you, and I need you guys.Yeah, I don't want- I still feel that. Sure. I'd rather you guys just be together.Yeah. Even if you don't like it, I want to come home to this one house. Yeah, and I'm not even there.I want to come home three times a year, and you better be there.You better be there as a unit, one unit.I know. It's really selfish. As someone who wants to overcome those feelings, I would now say, yes, of course, everyone should be happy, but innately.It was cool, too, because it almost felt like by the parents divulging this whole history of theirs, what I was initially interpreting was that that was hard that she had to do that. But the final message the mom says is she's like, I'm so I did that, and I do it a thousand more times. The mom has zero regret that she did that, and that was a little unexpected. I thought that was interesting.Yeah. But Delta is wired interestingly in that way. You said when you watch Parenthood during the Crosby-Jasmin thing.Yeah, Lincoln wanted to slip my throat. Of course. She's so nice.Of course, he cheated on her.I like Gabby. I would have done it, too.I know. I really wonder how she's going to be as an adult.Yeah. In a relationship, if she's going to be so laissez-faire or not. Yeah. And then you wonder, is there a genetic component? I mean, this definitely is my position.I know, which is weird. But I wonder if that's learned also from you in some way. I mean, not that you say anything explicitly.I don't. That's the thing is I'm not ever talking about having been in an open relationship. I mean, the only thing that I have said to them, which is naturally they see TV shows, a parent cheats, and then the family gets divorced. And when I've told them numerous no facts. It was just a lovely human story.Human story. Yeah.I feel lucky that he got to tell us that.Me too. It's such a good one.I really hope people listen. I really, really do. It's very inspiring. It makes you feel so much gratitude, I hope. It makes me anyway.Yeah, same. All right. Well, I love you. This has been a blast. And next time we talk, I may or may not be bailing Eric out of jail. We're not done with the trip. I was saying, what if this smoking incident went to trial here in Norway? And then out of nowhere, a representative for Merck's rental cars showed up as a character witness to say.Oh my God.That's great.That is great.All right. All right. Love you. Love you.

also where people were reaching out, so I was getting offers.

You're back to school where every kid's interested in you. It's all very familiar. That's right. You have a hunch this is going to go away, just like it always has.

You're interested for five minutes.

The fear that all of this is going to go away. I felt like I had to make the right decision on the next step, and that was really hard.

Well, you joined the Marvel Universe. That's a great- But that was before the Oscars.

I did that in 2022. It was after the movie had came out, before all the accolades. It was slowly growing. Then I got that wonderful call from Kevin Fahee about joining Loki. And then I had that. I was very proud of it. And then the Oscars, the Golden Globes, the SAG, came after that.

The amount of heightened experiences you've had.

Both ways.

Yeah, all the directions. Spielberg sent him Christmas His Presence for 39 years. Yes.

I love him.

It's hard not to love this guy.

I love him, too. Oh, my God. He is the sweetest. When I won the Oscar during one of those commercial breaks, I went up to him, gave him a big hug, and I told him, I said, Steven, I hope I made you proud tonight. And he said, Kyiv always made me proud. Yeah.

That's too much. I love it. You were celebrated from Loki, too. You won a TV Critics' Choice Award.

I was nominated I didn't.

Oh, you didn't win? No. Well, then I take that back.

Honestly, that was such a huge gift of being given that opportunity to play Orborus.

Can I say something really quick about Steven Spielberg? I feel like he must feel some responsibility for you. The present say that a little bit. I plucked this boy out of his elementary school and changed his life.

I have some responsibility.

I have some responsibility to him to make sure it's good. Not that he should have felt that, but I could see him feeling that way. Has he said anything to you as such? No.

I mean, he's given me so much. He was the first filmmaker to put an Asian kid in a big Hollywood movie, and he didn't do it one time. He did it two times. He changed not only my life, but also my family's life. So he's given me so much. I don't know how he felt, but I would never say that he should be responsible for it because he's already Oh, my gosh, I could never ask for anything more than what he's already- But I just mean he seems like such a...

He seems like such an incredible person and soul that I can imagine that he probably took that out of it.

Over the years, I would do something and I would get a card in the mail and said, Ki, I just saw you in this. You were brilliant. He was keeping an eye on you. Yeah, he was keeping an eye on me.

So, Ki, what are you doing next? I know you were in kung fu Panda for.

Yeah, that was my first voiceover ever.

And how did you like it?

I loved it. It was a very different experience. I think doing voiceover work, you have to place your faith and trust in the filmmakers more than live-action because I didn't get to read the full script. I didn't know what was going on. So I was in a recording booth with two of my directors, and I just have to believe that whatever I'm giving them is good enough.I have no knowledge ofNo context.context of what I'm doing.

You're doing the performance in a vacuum. Yeah. It's so weird. I'm bad at it. I've done a bit of it, and it does not come easy for me. It's almost like the opposite of what I had to train myself to do as an actor, which is be calm, be still, have patience, undersell it. I would think your voice is so beautiful.

It's like, perfect for it.

Well, just to be so heightened, my fear is of like, oh, my God, I'm being so broad right now and terrible. But that's what it calls for. With all this stress on your shoulders, what are you doing next?

I just finished a movie for Universal Studios. It's called With Love. My first ever movie as the number one on call sheet in a major studio film.

That's so exciting.

Are you allowed to tell us what it's about?

It's an action movie produced by David Leach and Kelly McCormick, who did The Fall Guys.

Yes, I know David Leach for years. Yeah, he's great.

It's an '87 North movie. It's a big action movie. We had a lot of fun. I grew up watching Jackie Chan and Samuel Hong, the Hong Kong '80s action movies, and they all did their own fights. So going into this one, I knew the very first thing that I wanted to do was to do all my fights. There's something special about watching a movie knowing that the actors are doing it all and not some stunt double. I completely agree. But then mentally, I think I'm 21. Yeah. But then when I do it, I'm surprised. I go, Oh, wow. I'm feeling really proud because I can do the moves. Then I wake up the next day and go, Oh, my God. Like my back, but nothing a couple of Tylenol wouldn't fix.

I cannot recommend enough for people to go back and watch the early Jackie Chan movies from Hong Kong because he was Buster Keaton. I mean, he's jumping out of buildings. He's jumping onto busses from 40 feet. I mean, the amount of stunts he did, we've never seen anything like that.

I don't think we will ever see anything like it again, because now you wouldn't put an actor in that position. I mean, he's What a story. My God. Really quick, I am landing the plane, but did cross my mind. It's almost like an epic, your life. In your 20 years of wandering, did you ever have the fantasy, you know who's going to call me? Quentin Tarantino. He should. Because he has this history of bringing back people that we all loved. Did you ever let yourself fantasize that maybe he was going to call you?No.It's a weird question.I love him. I'm a big fan of his movies.But he only brought Travolta back. And he brings Don Johnson back.I never had that. I didn't know this, but being an Asian actor in Hollywood, we're conditioned to think a certain way. Let me give you an example. When 87 North, David Leach and Kelly McCormick came to me with love, I read the script and I said, Oh, you got the wrong person. This script is written for somebody else, for a white actor. And I actually passed on it. And they came back the second time and they go, Read it again. And I passed the second time. Oh, my Lord. And then they go, We want you to come in. And I remember meeting them in person, and they have slides of me as that character. And I was staring at it, and I'm looking at David Leach, who was one of the biggest directors in Hollywood. And I said, How come he can see me in this role, and I can't see myself in this role. It dawned on me that because my entire life, when I go to a movie theater, when I watch a movie similar to this, it always stars.Go ahead, say it. Someone like you.Someone not like me.Ryan Reynolds, that type. Yeah.I didn't know that I was conditioned to think a certain way. When you said, did I ever dream a director like Tarantino would call me one day? No, I never did. I dreamt that I would get a call from my agent telling me, there's this great role for you. I think you're perfect for it. We're going to send you out. Given the opportunity to try, to prove to them, to try to convince the filmmaker and the producer that I am right for this. And ever since the Oscars, I'm very grateful for everything that's happened since. But it's so interesting how all these years I thought I was good for it, but nobody thought I'd be perfect for it. Everything everywhere had to happen. I had win an Oscar.And now it's flipped. Now they all think you can do it, and you're worried you can't. Yeah.Isn't that interesting?It is. And it's so common. The flip that has to happen once you've achieved something you wanted, you have to reset your whole brain. We say on here all the time, I know what it's like to try to build something. I don't know what it's like to try to keep something. And it's a completely different mindset, and you have to rise to that occasion. And so, yes, you have to now do some to believe in yourself in the way these other people do.But it's a minority's dilemma. It's extra, right? Because, yeah, you're growing up proving yourself the whole time.You have to be exceptional.Yes, you have to be exceptional. Like you said, you don't even dream the same dreams the other hegemonic group does because that's just not part of the story. And so once you get there, to rewire, as in, No, I'm a part of this group now, is very hard.It's a very hard transition back to identity.I love Dan Kwan, half of the Daniels. Dan Kwan says something that I really love and resonated with me. He said, Today's system is made up of follicle stories, meaning the stories of the past, something similar to that. And he said, If we want a new system, we have to make up new stories. For the last few years, I'm really grateful that Hollywood has opened up its doors for a lot of different groups of people that were never previously to those opportunities. And now they are. And we are creating new stories that's going to change whatever future that's going to come.And, Keith, they're already the best ones we've had over the last 10 years. You have Atlanta, this Black perspective. You have Rami, this Muslim perspective you have everywhere, they're immediately among the very best that have ever been made.It's really interesting. And that's why I wake up every day thinking, wow, it's great where things are going.A new dawn.Yeah, a new dawn. Exactly.Well, Key, thank you so much. This was delightful and life affirming, and I loved every second of it.Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Monica. Thank you, Dax. This is incredible. I was really nervous coming here.I hope it subsided. We'll come back and we'll talk about your movie. Yeah, come back next time.Valentine.Thank you so much.All right. Be well. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. Hello, Monica.Hi, Dax. Sheppard.Yeah, my voice went really high there, didn't it?Hello, Monica. What's the highest you can go?Well, I just ate a bunch of weird food at a for real Smorgasborg. I think maybe the world's first Smorgasborg.Fun.Well, because I'm in...You're in smorgas town?I'm in Smorgasborg, Norway. Where are you? I am not. I'm not really. I don't even know if this place has a name. It's a nice place. It has a name that's so tiny. But it did have a real life called the smorgasborg.And what did you eat?Okay, I ate too many things. Shit, I'm jumping ahead. I was about to show you the view. But yes, okay, so I ate a bunch of prime rib, but I also got into the potatoes all grotten hard. There's a lot of dairy and cheese. And then, guess what I did? I had dessert. They had a delicious strawberry ice cream that I smothered in a vanilla sauce.Vanilla sauce?Yes, with It's also a berry sauce. It was divine. So when you ask how high can I go, I'm a little handicapped at the moment with how high I could go. But I'll try. You ready?I want you to try. Yeah.Okay, let me clear out my instrument. Please cut this. Hi, Monica.That's pretty good.That's good. Let me try again. Let me try again. Okay.Let me close my-Hi. Yeah.It's best if you do, because I really don't want you to see me I'm going to cover my camera. Okay. Hi. Hi, Monica. Yeah. It's not good.It sounds-It sounds terrible. It sounds not high. It's like your voice sounds different, but it doesn't sound high.Yeah, it just sounds weaker, my voice.Yeah, it sounds like a mouse.Too much dairy.Okay, we're going to blame. Okay.We'll try it on the next one. I'll keep my instrument clean. I'll be preparing.So you have not cheated, though.What, on gluten?On the things you wouldn't eat at Letterman's house.Oh, no, I haven't. You know what I did have over... It's been a week now. I did have a bite of a croissant one morning. I had a bite of a croissant because Because- That's huge. Fuck do I love a croissant, especially when you're on the other side of the pond. They know how to make them. But that's it.I feel validated.Oh, you do? Okay.Yeah, I do. I feel that you should have a little bit of Letterman's garlic bread.Tell Dave I'll have a bite of a croissant if he makes it for me.Oh, man. Okay. Okay, let me see your view.Okay. I'm going to take you as far as I can. Let's see here. Hold on. I'll submit a picture, too, so the viewer knows what you're also seeing.Oh, gorgeous.Monica, that's a fjord.Oh, wow.That's a real fjord.Can you explain what a fjord is?Yeah. So you could think of it as maybe a bay, but if a bay was super skinny and 100 or 200 miles long. So all of this glacial water comes down all these mountains, and it fills up this bay. There's just so much water as we're driving here, there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of waterfalls. They're everywhere.Oh, beautiful.The fjords are these super steep cliffs, and it's this long channel that's maybe, I don't know, at some points it's three miles wide, maybe at some points it's 15 miles wide, and it ultimately goes to the ocean. But it's the most gorgeous. We took a ferry ride yesterday on that thing Eric was telling you about, the Tour of the Nutshell, whatever it was called. And it was pretty impossible. It looked like a screen saver or AI generated. Wow.Cool.Now, I could do an hour and a half on my thoughts about being here, both in Iceland and here in Norway. I have so many thoughts. Number one thought probably is this is the nicest day of the year, and it's 58, and it was gray all day. It's a harsh, harsh environment. It's really harsh. And I was sitting on the side of the road today while the kids were running around these trails and playing in the snow and stuff. And I was like, at some point in human history, people left Africa and they headed north, and they went through Spain, and they went through Italy and Greece, and then they got up into Germany. Still very good fertile land. They were passing all these areas where tons of crops grew, and olives, and tomatoes. And they were like, let's keep going north. And they got up here and they were like, Okay, it's dark half the year. It's cold 10 months of the year. Nothing grows. Let's not go back to where we just walked through with all the tomatoes and the sunshine. Let's stay here. That is such an interesting thought to me.Maybe they got stuck.I would say this place is more of a cultural shock than I've experienced in many other places. I'm experiencing it maybe more here than I did in India.No way.Yes. And I'm going to say this with tons and tons of respect to our Scandinavian friends. They're very stoic. They're very quiet. I think they can't stand us. I don't know. I think we're loud and gross and Maybe it's in my mind. Maybe I'm just feeling less than, but it's so specific. And then I'm comparing that to the data we always hear, which is like, this is the happiest place to live in the world, but I'm not seeing much laughing or affection. Joy. Yeah. And I'm trying to... I was saying in the car today, it's like there's this disjunction between what I know and then what I observe. And of course, I'm observing it through my own cultural lens of how I define happiness. And I'm I'm mildly aware of that. But also it's very confusing. When you hear happiest place on Earth and you come and you've yet to see anyone smile.That is so interesting.And then I got it in my mind. I was like, Could these tests really even mean anything Because you're asking people what their experience is. And I can already tell that culturally, no one would ever complain here. That just culturally, no one would ever say this sucks. It's not stoic enough. So it's like, what does this data mean? How is it gathered.It's also all relative. Maybe they're happy. It might be different than what we think is happy.And I think there's that. I think there's also these are means, right? These are averages of all the countries. And I think, well, what they definitely don't have is 20 % of their population suffering an abject poverty like we have. Yeah. So then you're just wondering, well, what would these stats look like if you logged that off? If you took out the bottom 20 % of our country and just chose to ignore that, what happens? Are you seeing extra happiness? Are you just seeing an average that's slightly above because there's no suffering on the bottom end? Does that make sense?Yeah, it does. I think more than that, though, it's conditioning. We in America are very conditioned to want.Yeah. And so happiness- Yeah, we don't have the just right saying here. What is it?Shalom?Lagoum?It's not lagoum, but it's Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.Not too much, not too little. We're like, no, no, there's no such thing as too much.Yeah. We are conditioned to want. So that's why I think most people say they're not happy or they're not content. But In some of these other places, they're very much taught that- Be content.Be content.Content. It doesn't mean super high highs or super low lows. It's just like middle.Yeah.But we like high highs here, and they come with lows.I'll give you the moment that is most... And again, it's hard to know if this is in my head, but I feel very strongly about this. The funniest moment, and it's repeated every few hours, when we all go in, all eight of us go into the gas station on the side of the road when we're driving and we get snacks, I'm positive, even though the person owns it and they would want to sell, I think they think, You guys are buying way too much stuff. I think they're disgusted by buy how much stuff we buy.Yes, I'm sure they are. Yeah, that's fascinating.Eric and I are both getting a couple of Coke Zeros for the car ride and then some waters, whatever. I'm like, even the owner wants to go like, I don't want you to buy this much.That's enough. Yeah.I don't want to sell this much stuff to you. This is totally inappropriate. And again, I don't know if I'm being triggered of being judged. It's all in my head. I'm not sure, but I do have this sense that they're pretty disgusted with how much stuff we buy at the gas station. And when we're ordering at restaurants, I can tell they're ribble. They've told us that's too much food. No. Oh, yeah. We were at a pizza place last night, and the guy said, That's too much food. You ordered that and that, and that's too much food.Are you getting testy with them or no?No, no, no. By the way, I want to be clear. They're so nice. Everyone here is nice. It's good folk. There's no question about it. Their country is so fucking beautiful. And also, I was thinking it's got to be annoying because there's got to be more tourists in this country than there are citizens. I mean, there's so many tourists here.Oh, wow. Really?Yeah. Well, in Iceland, we learned the number. It was preposterous. There's seven tourists to every one inhabitants of Iceland. Oh, my God. There's only four or 500,000 people that live in Iceland, and there's a few million people there on vacation. So you try to factor that in. That'd be annoying as hell. But all that to say, I've just been doing a lot of thinking about this happiest place on Earth thing. It's very interesting.Yeah, that is really interesting. And also because I've talked to Jess about it because he grew up... He spent 11 years in Sweden when he was young.Yeah.And he has a specific take on Sweden that most people don't. And it is to him, one note... Yes, there's a little bit of a bleak, like a darkness, a gray. And I was like, Would you want to go back there? And he said, I'm good.Yeah, it's just different. I'm not at all saying one's better or worse. It's impossible not to notice.Well, also within one year, you've been to basically the opposite Is it the opposite? You've been to India, and you've been to Norway.Yeah, there's like one person per 100 square mile here. Yes. And then when we were in India, it's like, it's on. Life is on. Yes. And there's a fervor and a noise.There's a vibrancy. Yeah. It's really interesting. When we were in Old Delhi, there's poverty everywhere. It's poor. It's like a struggle.But people are having a great time.Yeah, they are. And that is an interesting juxtaposition to what you're saying. There's no poverty, but it doesn't have that energy.Yeah. So then, of course, I think it's tempting to go back in history to wonder when this divergence happened. And you're thinking of the of Vikings, and you're thinking of their different forms of royalty that they had. But really, I think you need to go back to the first migration here. I think what I'm saying, the fact that someone preferred to be up here than to be down south where everyone had come from, it says a lot. That's who you're starting with. And then-Yeah, interesting. And of course, in Italy, those people got there and they're like, Hey, let's go. This is a party. This is fucking hundreds of miles from Africa. They didn't go very far. They're Like, these olives are growing everywhere. I don't know. It's been really fascinating. But again, what It's called All Four's.Oh, it better be sexy with that title.It is. It's by Miranda July, incredible author. And it's the Book of the Summer. Everyone's reading it.Everyone's going to be horny this summer? Yes, it is sexy. Great summer to be a A single dude.Definitely.Or you can be- And is it mostly about doggy style?No, it's about a woman who she's 45 and she is going to meet her friends in New York. Her husband suggests that she drive there and take a road trip, and she doesn't make it there. She stops an hour away and stays. Oh, wow. And stuff happens. It's midlife It's nice to see, but it's hot.She just pulls the Eject button on her life.Well, I'm like 100 pages in, so I don't know how this will end, but she stops basically an hour outside her home, gets a hotel hotel room and is planning on going back after the trip is over.Yeah. But she meets someone in the lobby?She meets someone at a gas station, and trouble ensues. It's so good.Listen, if people love that book, and they've already read, that reminds me of a couple of other books that are great, that are older, that are like that. But Erica Young, Fear of Flying. Have you ever read that?No.It's supposed to be one of the most seminal Feminist Works, and it introduces the concept. I've brought this up on here before, The Zippless Fuck. This is her. Oh, yeah, you have talked about that. You should really read Fear of Flying when you're done with this, if you're on it. If you wanted it to be a horny summer.Horny summer, yeah. Also, I started following the New York Times Book Review Instagram. There was a book that I'm really excited to read also after this. That also sounds horny. I definitely recommend it. I'm enjoying it.Okay. Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. There is something I wanted to add to our previous conversation because last night, Delta and I watched. Well, the last two nights, Delta and I have watched two more episodes.I've completed it.You're all done? Yeah. I think the thing we left out of our first conversation about it, which is really important, is they love it. I think it's so important. They love it so much. When that girl who's been injured is like, it's the best five years of my life, and I'm afraid the rest of my life is not even going to live up to it. She loves it. We had our own criticisms of certain observations, but I want to be clear. The reason I don't mind any of it is they want to do it so bad, and they're so happy doing it. Does it destroy their body? Yeah, probably. But so does football.Yeah. I mean, that's why I said, I think it's a very interesting depiction of being attached to an identity. Because they do love it, but there are real... There are issues, one being that they're 23 and have to have hip surgeries. That's rough. And some Some of them, as you keep watching, they like it, but they know it's not good for them, mentally, even. But they can't put it down because who are they if they put it down?Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is I have to be fair and make it equivalent to any other sport where people are really deciding like, yeah, man, I could get CTE. That's very common. Or I'm a boxer and I have to fucking lose 12 pounds in a week or I'm a boxer and I have to destroy my body. I think people want to write it off as something frivolous. But if you're going to write that off as frivolous, then I think you have to write off all sports as frivolous. I think it's either you think it's fine to basically trade your body for this pursuit or not.Yeah.Of course, I can't relate at all. I'm like, oh, my God, to be judged. God, they're like in the military. It's like, your kick sucked. Yes, ma'am.Excited to hear it. Yes, ma'am. Is so triggering. I mean, I can relate. I can relate to it more than probably most people can. And in the last episode, to the end of the season, and it's so sad. It's over, and they're going to have a new team next year, and some of these people won't be there. And I just was like, yeah, it's a testament to identity, but also community, this thing we keep learning over and over and over again, which is that is the most important thing. And that's what they're I had to lose. Sisterhood. Deep kinship and idea that only this group knows what this is like. I still feel that when I was watching, I was like, oh, God, I was thinking about my squads. I still feel that. Like, only I think those people on Earth, those 20 people, will know what that feeling was in that moment.Thirty-six. They're still cutting on my end.Oh, I mean for me. My squad was small.Oh, yeah.Still, when I think about all those people, we all had a shared experience. I don't know what most of those people are doing right now anymore, but we had this very special thing, and it's beautiful.Yeah. I think the craziest thing, the two craziest things are first, the flying up in the air down into the splits, landing straight in the splits is insane. I cannot believe it. It's like they're trying to break their hips. Yeah. But I think even crazier than that for me was the notion that they all have to report to a hair salon. And here's where the cultural thing is really wild, because you have one girl from New Jersey, which every city has got it to look, and But she's in Dallas, so they just send them all to the salon, and then they let these three human beings decide what color hair they should have. And they really have no say in it. And this guy was in this blonde, and they're like, You definitely need to be chestnut brown. And she's like, Okay. And they're just chopping and dying people's hair however they fucking want. And then you see them looking at the pictures later. It's like, they're not even sure they made the right decision. The coaches are like, Oh, I don't know. Was that the right color?I know. Not to mention, this is before they've made the team.Yes, they could still get caught.And they do. And it's just like, Oh, my. It's a mind fuck.It's a real all in, man. I've never seen an all-in where you actually also have to get whatever hair do they tell you to get. Other than the military, you should get in your head shaved and basic.Yeah.But fuck, they love it. Oh, my God. I was watching it with Delta, and I said, When someone gets cut, all the gals come around, they hug the person, and they're all crying. And I, of course, was like, I was panicked. I was like, God, if I was in that situation, I don't cry very easy. I'd have to really be trying. And I said to Delta, Do you think anyone's faked are fake crying? And she said, Oh, yeah, I think half of them are fake crying. No, they're not. And we were really looking, and there's no tears. Some of the people that were sobbing the hardest, their faces were bone dry.I think that they're not all crying. You can be sad and not cry.I think they're being really nice, but I don't know that they're... Well, Delta and I think only about half were actually crying.I think you'd be surprised what happens when you're in that much of a pressure cooker. Everyone's emotions are just ready to brim for anything.True, true, true. Heightened, heightened, heightened.Whether or not you actually are that sad, anything off kilter is going to make you cry. It's such an intense environment.Yeah. Okay, the other crazy moment, and I don't know, people probably not like that I ask this, but There's a storyline where a girl goes back home and you're meeting her parents, and the parents are being very honest about the fact that they only stayed together for the kids. And then the second the kids moved away, they got divorced. And so we're watching this whole thing, and Delta and I are snuggling in bed. I said, If mommy and daddy didn't like each other anymore, would you want us to stay married or would you want us to get divorced? I said, Because I would definitely stay married for you. Luckily, I like mommy, so that's not an issue. But I would do that so I could wake up in the same house with you every day. And I'm totally assuming she's going to say, Yeah, I'd want you to stay married. And she's like, No, you should never be with someone you don't want to be with for me. And I was like, How is this kid at nine years old? This fucking emotional Emotionally stable. Yeah. It blew my mind. It was almost like a rhetorical question.I just wanted to know how she felt about this dynamic. There's two adults crying, and I don't even know that she's ever even been introduced to this concept that parents might stay together. And so I'm almost like, well, if this is a kernel in her head, let's talk about it now. And she's just like, no, I would want you to- I also, I don't want to say that...She is very emotionally stable. But I don't want to say that if somebody had another opinion, that that means they're not emotionally stable, because I think both are very valid opinions.Yes, Lincoln, I didn't ask her. We didn't watch it together. But I know Lincoln would said she would want us to stay together no matter what. Yeah.Exactly. And that's fair and correct, too.Yeah, there's not a right or a wrong answer. It was just shocking to hear her say, I want you to be that.Especially to their dad. It's one thing if You're just having a philosophical debate about it, but telling your dad, Oh, it's okay. If you want to go.If you want to get out of here.If you want to ditch this popsicle stand, go ahead.Blow this joint.I 100,000 % would have said, Stay together. Stay together.I think that's most- Be miserable. Yeah, for me, because I need you, and I need you guys.Yeah, I don't want- I still feel that. Sure. I'd rather you guys just be together.Yeah. Even if you don't like it, I want to come home to this one house. Yeah, and I'm not even there.I want to come home three times a year, and you better be there.You better be there as a unit, one unit.I know. It's really selfish. As someone who wants to overcome those feelings, I would now say, yes, of course, everyone should be happy, but innately.It was cool, too, because it almost felt like by the parents divulging this whole history of theirs, what I was initially interpreting was that that was hard that she had to do that. But the final message the mom says is she's like, I'm so I did that, and I do it a thousand more times. The mom has zero regret that she did that, and that was a little unexpected. I thought that was interesting.Yeah. But Delta is wired interestingly in that way. You said when you watch Parenthood during the Crosby-Jasmin thing.Yeah, Lincoln wanted to slip my throat. Of course. She's so nice.Of course, he cheated on her.I like Gabby. I would have done it, too.I know. I really wonder how she's going to be as an adult.Yeah. In a relationship, if she's going to be so laissez-faire or not. Yeah. And then you wonder, is there a genetic component? I mean, this definitely is my position.I know, which is weird. But I wonder if that's learned also from you in some way. I mean, not that you say anything explicitly.I don't. That's the thing is I'm not ever talking about having been in an open relationship. I mean, the only thing that I have said to them, which is naturally they see TV shows, a parent cheats, and then the family gets divorced. And when I've told them numerous no facts. It was just a lovely human story.Human story. Yeah.I feel lucky that he got to tell us that.Me too. It's such a good one.I really hope people listen. I really, really do. It's very inspiring. It makes you feel so much gratitude, I hope. It makes me anyway.Yeah, same. All right. Well, I love you. This has been a blast. And next time we talk, I may or may not be bailing Eric out of jail. We're not done with the trip. I was saying, what if this smoking incident went to trial here in Norway? And then out of nowhere, a representative for Merck's rental cars showed up as a character witness to say.Oh my God.That's great.That is great.All right. All right. Love you. Love you.

What a story. My God. Really quick, I am landing the plane, but did cross my mind. It's almost like an epic, your life. In your 20 years of wandering, did you ever have the fantasy, you know who's going to call me? Quentin Tarantino. He should. Because he has this history of bringing back people that we all loved. Did you ever let yourself fantasize that maybe he was going to call you?

No.

It's a weird question.

I love him. I'm a big fan of his movies.

But he only brought Travolta back. And he brings Don Johnson back.

I never had that. I didn't know this, but being an Asian actor in Hollywood, we're conditioned to think a certain way. Let me give you an example. When 87 North, David Leach and Kelly McCormick came to me with love, I read the script and I said, Oh, you got the wrong person. This script is written for somebody else, for a white actor. And I actually passed on it. And they came back the second time and they go, Read it again. And I passed the second time. Oh, my Lord. And then they go, We want you to come in. And I remember meeting them in person, and they have slides of me as that character. And I was staring at it, and I'm looking at David Leach, who was one of the biggest directors in Hollywood. And I said, How come he can see me in this role, and I can't see myself in this role. It dawned on me that because my entire life, when I go to a movie theater, when I watch a movie similar to this, it always stars.

Go ahead, say it. Someone like you.

Someone not like me.

Ryan Reynolds, that type. Yeah.

I didn't know that I was conditioned to think a certain way. When you said, did I ever dream a director like Tarantino would call me one day? No, I never did. I dreamt that I would get a call from my agent telling me, there's this great role for you. I think you're perfect for it. We're going to send you out. Given the opportunity to try, to prove to them, to try to convince the filmmaker and the producer that I am right for this. And ever since the Oscars, I'm very grateful for everything that's happened since. But it's so interesting how all these years I thought I was good for it, but nobody thought I'd be perfect for it. Everything everywhere had to happen. I had win an Oscar.

And now it's flipped. Now they all think you can do it, and you're worried you can't. Yeah.

Isn't that interesting?

It is. And it's so common. The flip that has to happen once you've achieved something you wanted, you have to reset your whole brain. We say on here all the time, I know what it's like to try to build something. I don't know what it's like to try to keep something. And it's a completely different mindset, and you have to rise to that occasion. And so, yes, you have to now do some to believe in yourself in the way these other people do.

But it's a minority's dilemma. It's extra, right? Because, yeah, you're growing up proving yourself the whole time.

You have to be exceptional.

Yes, you have to be exceptional. Like you said, you don't even dream the same dreams the other hegemonic group does because that's just not part of the story. And so once you get there, to rewire, as in, No, I'm a part of this group now, is very hard.

It's a very hard transition back to identity.

I love Dan Kwan, half of the Daniels. Dan Kwan says something that I really love and resonated with me. He said, Today's system is made up of follicle stories, meaning the stories of the past, something similar to that. And he said, If we want a new system, we have to make up new stories. For the last few years, I'm really grateful that Hollywood has opened up its doors for a lot of different groups of people that were never previously to those opportunities. And now they are. And we are creating new stories that's going to change whatever future that's going to come.

And, Keith, they're already the best ones we've had over the last 10 years. You have Atlanta, this Black perspective. You have Rami, this Muslim perspective you have everywhere, they're immediately among the very best that have ever been made.

It's really interesting. And that's why I wake up every day thinking, wow, it's great where things are going.

A new dawn.

Yeah, a new dawn. Exactly.

Well, Key, thank you so much. This was delightful and life affirming, and I loved every second of it.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Monica. Thank you, Dax. This is incredible. I was really nervous coming here.

I hope it subsided. We'll come back and we'll talk about your movie. Yeah, come back next time.

Valentine.

Thank you so much.

All right. Be well. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. Hello, Monica.

Hi, Dax. Sheppard.

Yeah, my voice went really high there, didn't it?

Hello, Monica. What's the highest you can go?

Well, I just ate a bunch of weird food at a for real Smorgasborg. I think maybe the world's first Smorgasborg.

Fun.

Well, because I'm in...

You're in smorgas town?

I'm in Smorgasborg, Norway. Where are you? I am not. I'm not really. I don't even know if this place has a name. It's a nice place. It has a name that's so tiny. But it did have a real life called the smorgasborg.

And what did you eat?

Okay, I ate too many things. Shit, I'm jumping ahead. I was about to show you the view. But yes, okay, so I ate a bunch of prime rib, but I also got into the potatoes all grotten hard. There's a lot of dairy and cheese. And then, guess what I did? I had dessert. They had a delicious strawberry ice cream that I smothered in a vanilla sauce.

Vanilla sauce?

Yes, with It's also a berry sauce. It was divine. So when you ask how high can I go, I'm a little handicapped at the moment with how high I could go. But I'll try. You ready?

I want you to try. Yeah.

Okay, let me clear out my instrument. Please cut this. Hi, Monica.

That's pretty good.

That's good. Let me try again. Let me try again. Okay.

Let me close my-Hi. Yeah.

It's best if you do, because I really don't want you to see me I'm going to cover my camera. Okay. Hi. Hi, Monica. Yeah. It's not good.

It sounds-It sounds terrible. It sounds not high. It's like your voice sounds different, but it doesn't sound high.

Yeah, it just sounds weaker, my voice.

Yeah, it sounds like a mouse.

Too much dairy.

Okay, we're going to blame. Okay.

We'll try it on the next one. I'll keep my instrument clean. I'll be preparing.

So you have not cheated, though.

What, on gluten?

On the things you wouldn't eat at Letterman's house.

Oh, no, I haven't. You know what I did have over... It's been a week now. I did have a bite of a croissant one morning. I had a bite of a croissant because Because- That's huge. Fuck do I love a croissant, especially when you're on the other side of the pond. They know how to make them. But that's it.

I feel validated.

Oh, you do? Okay.

Yeah, I do. I feel that you should have a little bit of Letterman's garlic bread.

Tell Dave I'll have a bite of a croissant if he makes it for me.

Oh, man. Okay. Okay, let me see your view.

Okay. I'm going to take you as far as I can. Let's see here. Hold on. I'll submit a picture, too, so the viewer knows what you're also seeing.

Oh, gorgeous.

Monica, that's a fjord.

Oh, wow.

That's a real fjord.

Can you explain what a fjord is?

Yeah. So you could think of it as maybe a bay, but if a bay was super skinny and 100 or 200 miles long. So all of this glacial water comes down all these mountains, and it fills up this bay. There's just so much water as we're driving here, there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of waterfalls. They're everywhere.

Oh, beautiful.

The fjords are these super steep cliffs, and it's this long channel that's maybe, I don't know, at some points it's three miles wide, maybe at some points it's 15 miles wide, and it ultimately goes to the ocean. But it's the most gorgeous. We took a ferry ride yesterday on that thing Eric was telling you about, the Tour of the Nutshell, whatever it was called. And it was pretty impossible. It looked like a screen saver or AI generated. Wow.

Cool.

Now, I could do an hour and a half on my thoughts about being here, both in Iceland and here in Norway. I have so many thoughts. Number one thought probably is this is the nicest day of the year, and it's 58, and it was gray all day. It's a harsh, harsh environment. It's really harsh. And I was sitting on the side of the road today while the kids were running around these trails and playing in the snow and stuff. And I was like, at some point in human history, people left Africa and they headed north, and they went through Spain, and they went through Italy and Greece, and then they got up into Germany. Still very good fertile land. They were passing all these areas where tons of crops grew, and olives, and tomatoes. And they were like, let's keep going north. And they got up here and they were like, Okay, it's dark half the year. It's cold 10 months of the year. Nothing grows. Let's not go back to where we just walked through with all the tomatoes and the sunshine. Let's stay here. That is such an interesting thought to me.

Maybe they got stuck.

I would say this place is more of a cultural shock than I've experienced in many other places. I'm experiencing it maybe more here than I did in India.

No way.

Yes. And I'm going to say this with tons and tons of respect to our Scandinavian friends. They're very stoic. They're very quiet. I think they can't stand us. I don't know. I think we're loud and gross and Maybe it's in my mind. Maybe I'm just feeling less than, but it's so specific. And then I'm comparing that to the data we always hear, which is like, this is the happiest place to live in the world, but I'm not seeing much laughing or affection. Joy. Yeah. And I'm trying to... I was saying in the car today, it's like there's this disjunction between what I know and then what I observe. And of course, I'm observing it through my own cultural lens of how I define happiness. And I'm I'm mildly aware of that. But also it's very confusing. When you hear happiest place on Earth and you come and you've yet to see anyone smile.

That is so interesting.

And then I got it in my mind. I was like, Could these tests really even mean anything Because you're asking people what their experience is. And I can already tell that culturally, no one would ever complain here. That just culturally, no one would ever say this sucks. It's not stoic enough. So it's like, what does this data mean? How is it gathered.

It's also all relative. Maybe they're happy. It might be different than what we think is happy.

And I think there's that. I think there's also these are means, right? These are averages of all the countries. And I think, well, what they definitely don't have is 20 % of their population suffering an abject poverty like we have. Yeah. So then you're just wondering, well, what would these stats look like if you logged that off? If you took out the bottom 20 % of our country and just chose to ignore that, what happens? Are you seeing extra happiness? Are you just seeing an average that's slightly above because there's no suffering on the bottom end? Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. I think more than that, though, it's conditioning. We in America are very conditioned to want.

Yeah. And so happiness- Yeah, we don't have the just right saying here. What is it?

Shalom?

Lagoum?

It's not lagoum, but it's Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Not too much, not too little. We're like, no, no, there's no such thing as too much.

Yeah. We are conditioned to want. So that's why I think most people say they're not happy or they're not content. But In some of these other places, they're very much taught that- Be content.

Be content.

Content. It doesn't mean super high highs or super low lows. It's just like middle.

Yeah.

But we like high highs here, and they come with lows.

I'll give you the moment that is most... And again, it's hard to know if this is in my head, but I feel very strongly about this. The funniest moment, and it's repeated every few hours, when we all go in, all eight of us go into the gas station on the side of the road when we're driving and we get snacks, I'm positive, even though the person owns it and they would want to sell, I think they think, You guys are buying way too much stuff. I think they're disgusted by buy how much stuff we buy.

Yes, I'm sure they are. Yeah, that's fascinating.

Eric and I are both getting a couple of Coke Zeros for the car ride and then some waters, whatever. I'm like, even the owner wants to go like, I don't want you to buy this much.

That's enough. Yeah.

I don't want to sell this much stuff to you. This is totally inappropriate. And again, I don't know if I'm being triggered of being judged. It's all in my head. I'm not sure, but I do have this sense that they're pretty disgusted with how much stuff we buy at the gas station. And when we're ordering at restaurants, I can tell they're ribble. They've told us that's too much food. No. Oh, yeah. We were at a pizza place last night, and the guy said, That's too much food. You ordered that and that, and that's too much food.

Are you getting testy with them or no?

No, no, no. By the way, I want to be clear. They're so nice. Everyone here is nice. It's good folk. There's no question about it. Their country is so fucking beautiful. And also, I was thinking it's got to be annoying because there's got to be more tourists in this country than there are citizens. I mean, there's so many tourists here.

Oh, wow. Really?

Yeah. Well, in Iceland, we learned the number. It was preposterous. There's seven tourists to every one inhabitants of Iceland. Oh, my God. There's only four or 500,000 people that live in Iceland, and there's a few million people there on vacation. So you try to factor that in. That'd be annoying as hell. But all that to say, I've just been doing a lot of thinking about this happiest place on Earth thing. It's very interesting.

Yeah, that is really interesting. And also because I've talked to Jess about it because he grew up... He spent 11 years in Sweden when he was young.

Yeah.

And he has a specific take on Sweden that most people don't. And it is to him, one note... Yes, there's a little bit of a bleak, like a darkness, a gray. And I was like, Would you want to go back there? And he said, I'm good.

Yeah, it's just different. I'm not at all saying one's better or worse. It's impossible not to notice.

Well, also within one year, you've been to basically the opposite Is it the opposite? You've been to India, and you've been to Norway.

Yeah, there's like one person per 100 square mile here. Yes. And then when we were in India, it's like, it's on. Life is on. Yes. And there's a fervor and a noise.

There's a vibrancy. Yeah. It's really interesting. When we were in Old Delhi, there's poverty everywhere. It's poor. It's like a struggle.

But people are having a great time.

Yeah, they are. And that is an interesting juxtaposition to what you're saying. There's no poverty, but it doesn't have that energy.

Yeah. So then, of course, I think it's tempting to go back in history to wonder when this divergence happened. And you're thinking of the of Vikings, and you're thinking of their different forms of royalty that they had. But really, I think you need to go back to the first migration here. I think what I'm saying, the fact that someone preferred to be up here than to be down south where everyone had come from, it says a lot. That's who you're starting with. And then-Yeah, interesting. And of course, in Italy, those people got there and they're like, Hey, let's go. This is a party. This is fucking hundreds of miles from Africa. They didn't go very far. They're Like, these olives are growing everywhere. I don't know. It's been really fascinating. But again, what It's called All Four's.Oh, it better be sexy with that title.It is. It's by Miranda July, incredible author. And it's the Book of the Summer. Everyone's reading it.Everyone's going to be horny this summer? Yes, it is sexy. Great summer to be a A single dude.Definitely.Or you can be- And is it mostly about doggy style?No, it's about a woman who she's 45 and she is going to meet her friends in New York. Her husband suggests that she drive there and take a road trip, and she doesn't make it there. She stops an hour away and stays. Oh, wow. And stuff happens. It's midlife It's nice to see, but it's hot.She just pulls the Eject button on her life.Well, I'm like 100 pages in, so I don't know how this will end, but she stops basically an hour outside her home, gets a hotel hotel room and is planning on going back after the trip is over.Yeah. But she meets someone in the lobby?She meets someone at a gas station, and trouble ensues. It's so good.Listen, if people love that book, and they've already read, that reminds me of a couple of other books that are great, that are older, that are like that. But Erica Young, Fear of Flying. Have you ever read that?No.It's supposed to be one of the most seminal Feminist Works, and it introduces the concept. I've brought this up on here before, The Zippless Fuck. This is her. Oh, yeah, you have talked about that. You should really read Fear of Flying when you're done with this, if you're on it. If you wanted it to be a horny summer.Horny summer, yeah. Also, I started following the New York Times Book Review Instagram. There was a book that I'm really excited to read also after this. That also sounds horny. I definitely recommend it. I'm enjoying it.Okay. Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. There is something I wanted to add to our previous conversation because last night, Delta and I watched. Well, the last two nights, Delta and I have watched two more episodes.I've completed it.You're all done? Yeah. I think the thing we left out of our first conversation about it, which is really important, is they love it. I think it's so important. They love it so much. When that girl who's been injured is like, it's the best five years of my life, and I'm afraid the rest of my life is not even going to live up to it. She loves it. We had our own criticisms of certain observations, but I want to be clear. The reason I don't mind any of it is they want to do it so bad, and they're so happy doing it. Does it destroy their body? Yeah, probably. But so does football.Yeah. I mean, that's why I said, I think it's a very interesting depiction of being attached to an identity. Because they do love it, but there are real... There are issues, one being that they're 23 and have to have hip surgeries. That's rough. And some Some of them, as you keep watching, they like it, but they know it's not good for them, mentally, even. But they can't put it down because who are they if they put it down?Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is I have to be fair and make it equivalent to any other sport where people are really deciding like, yeah, man, I could get CTE. That's very common. Or I'm a boxer and I have to fucking lose 12 pounds in a week or I'm a boxer and I have to destroy my body. I think people want to write it off as something frivolous. But if you're going to write that off as frivolous, then I think you have to write off all sports as frivolous. I think it's either you think it's fine to basically trade your body for this pursuit or not.Yeah.Of course, I can't relate at all. I'm like, oh, my God, to be judged. God, they're like in the military. It's like, your kick sucked. Yes, ma'am.Excited to hear it. Yes, ma'am. Is so triggering. I mean, I can relate. I can relate to it more than probably most people can. And in the last episode, to the end of the season, and it's so sad. It's over, and they're going to have a new team next year, and some of these people won't be there. And I just was like, yeah, it's a testament to identity, but also community, this thing we keep learning over and over and over again, which is that is the most important thing. And that's what they're I had to lose. Sisterhood. Deep kinship and idea that only this group knows what this is like. I still feel that when I was watching, I was like, oh, God, I was thinking about my squads. I still feel that. Like, only I think those people on Earth, those 20 people, will know what that feeling was in that moment.Thirty-six. They're still cutting on my end.Oh, I mean for me. My squad was small.Oh, yeah.Still, when I think about all those people, we all had a shared experience. I don't know what most of those people are doing right now anymore, but we had this very special thing, and it's beautiful.Yeah. I think the craziest thing, the two craziest things are first, the flying up in the air down into the splits, landing straight in the splits is insane. I cannot believe it. It's like they're trying to break their hips. Yeah. But I think even crazier than that for me was the notion that they all have to report to a hair salon. And here's where the cultural thing is really wild, because you have one girl from New Jersey, which every city has got it to look, and But she's in Dallas, so they just send them all to the salon, and then they let these three human beings decide what color hair they should have. And they really have no say in it. And this guy was in this blonde, and they're like, You definitely need to be chestnut brown. And she's like, Okay. And they're just chopping and dying people's hair however they fucking want. And then you see them looking at the pictures later. It's like, they're not even sure they made the right decision. The coaches are like, Oh, I don't know. Was that the right color?I know. Not to mention, this is before they've made the team.Yes, they could still get caught.And they do. And it's just like, Oh, my. It's a mind fuck.It's a real all in, man. I've never seen an all-in where you actually also have to get whatever hair do they tell you to get. Other than the military, you should get in your head shaved and basic.Yeah.But fuck, they love it. Oh, my God. I was watching it with Delta, and I said, When someone gets cut, all the gals come around, they hug the person, and they're all crying. And I, of course, was like, I was panicked. I was like, God, if I was in that situation, I don't cry very easy. I'd have to really be trying. And I said to Delta, Do you think anyone's faked are fake crying? And she said, Oh, yeah, I think half of them are fake crying. No, they're not. And we were really looking, and there's no tears. Some of the people that were sobbing the hardest, their faces were bone dry.I think that they're not all crying. You can be sad and not cry.I think they're being really nice, but I don't know that they're... Well, Delta and I think only about half were actually crying.I think you'd be surprised what happens when you're in that much of a pressure cooker. Everyone's emotions are just ready to brim for anything.True, true, true. Heightened, heightened, heightened.Whether or not you actually are that sad, anything off kilter is going to make you cry. It's such an intense environment.Yeah. Okay, the other crazy moment, and I don't know, people probably not like that I ask this, but There's a storyline where a girl goes back home and you're meeting her parents, and the parents are being very honest about the fact that they only stayed together for the kids. And then the second the kids moved away, they got divorced. And so we're watching this whole thing, and Delta and I are snuggling in bed. I said, If mommy and daddy didn't like each other anymore, would you want us to stay married or would you want us to get divorced? I said, Because I would definitely stay married for you. Luckily, I like mommy, so that's not an issue. But I would do that so I could wake up in the same house with you every day. And I'm totally assuming she's going to say, Yeah, I'd want you to stay married. And she's like, No, you should never be with someone you don't want to be with for me. And I was like, How is this kid at nine years old? This fucking emotional Emotionally stable. Yeah. It blew my mind. It was almost like a rhetorical question.I just wanted to know how she felt about this dynamic. There's two adults crying, and I don't even know that she's ever even been introduced to this concept that parents might stay together. And so I'm almost like, well, if this is a kernel in her head, let's talk about it now. And she's just like, no, I would want you to- I also, I don't want to say that...She is very emotionally stable. But I don't want to say that if somebody had another opinion, that that means they're not emotionally stable, because I think both are very valid opinions.Yes, Lincoln, I didn't ask her. We didn't watch it together. But I know Lincoln would said she would want us to stay together no matter what. Yeah.Exactly. And that's fair and correct, too.Yeah, there's not a right or a wrong answer. It was just shocking to hear her say, I want you to be that.Especially to their dad. It's one thing if You're just having a philosophical debate about it, but telling your dad, Oh, it's okay. If you want to go.If you want to get out of here.If you want to ditch this popsicle stand, go ahead.Blow this joint.I 100,000 % would have said, Stay together. Stay together.I think that's most- Be miserable. Yeah, for me, because I need you, and I need you guys.Yeah, I don't want- I still feel that. Sure. I'd rather you guys just be together.Yeah. Even if you don't like it, I want to come home to this one house. Yeah, and I'm not even there.I want to come home three times a year, and you better be there.You better be there as a unit, one unit.I know. It's really selfish. As someone who wants to overcome those feelings, I would now say, yes, of course, everyone should be happy, but innately.It was cool, too, because it almost felt like by the parents divulging this whole history of theirs, what I was initially interpreting was that that was hard that she had to do that. But the final message the mom says is she's like, I'm so I did that, and I do it a thousand more times. The mom has zero regret that she did that, and that was a little unexpected. I thought that was interesting.Yeah. But Delta is wired interestingly in that way. You said when you watch Parenthood during the Crosby-Jasmin thing.Yeah, Lincoln wanted to slip my throat. Of course. She's so nice.Of course, he cheated on her.I like Gabby. I would have done it, too.I know. I really wonder how she's going to be as an adult.Yeah. In a relationship, if she's going to be so laissez-faire or not. Yeah. And then you wonder, is there a genetic component? I mean, this definitely is my position.I know, which is weird. But I wonder if that's learned also from you in some way. I mean, not that you say anything explicitly.I don't. That's the thing is I'm not ever talking about having been in an open relationship. I mean, the only thing that I have said to them, which is naturally they see TV shows, a parent cheats, and then the family gets divorced. And when I've told them numerous no facts. It was just a lovely human story.Human story. Yeah.I feel lucky that he got to tell us that.Me too. It's such a good one.I really hope people listen. I really, really do. It's very inspiring. It makes you feel so much gratitude, I hope. It makes me anyway.Yeah, same. All right. Well, I love you. This has been a blast. And next time we talk, I may or may not be bailing Eric out of jail. We're not done with the trip. I was saying, what if this smoking incident went to trial here in Norway? And then out of nowhere, a representative for Merck's rental cars showed up as a character witness to say.Oh my God.That's great.That is great.All right. All right. Love you. Love you.

It's called All Four's.

Oh, it better be sexy with that title.

It is. It's by Miranda July, incredible author. And it's the Book of the Summer. Everyone's reading it.

Everyone's going to be horny this summer? Yes, it is sexy. Great summer to be a A single dude.

Definitely.

Or you can be- And is it mostly about doggy style?

No, it's about a woman who she's 45 and she is going to meet her friends in New York. Her husband suggests that she drive there and take a road trip, and she doesn't make it there. She stops an hour away and stays. Oh, wow. And stuff happens. It's midlife It's nice to see, but it's hot.

She just pulls the Eject button on her life.

Well, I'm like 100 pages in, so I don't know how this will end, but she stops basically an hour outside her home, gets a hotel hotel room and is planning on going back after the trip is over.

Yeah. But she meets someone in the lobby?

She meets someone at a gas station, and trouble ensues. It's so good.

Listen, if people love that book, and they've already read, that reminds me of a couple of other books that are great, that are older, that are like that. But Erica Young, Fear of Flying. Have you ever read that?

No.

It's supposed to be one of the most seminal Feminist Works, and it introduces the concept. I've brought this up on here before, The Zippless Fuck. This is her. Oh, yeah, you have talked about that. You should really read Fear of Flying when you're done with this, if you're on it. If you wanted it to be a horny summer.

Horny summer, yeah. Also, I started following the New York Times Book Review Instagram. There was a book that I'm really excited to read also after this. That also sounds horny. I definitely recommend it. I'm enjoying it.

Okay. Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. There is something I wanted to add to our previous conversation because last night, Delta and I watched. Well, the last two nights, Delta and I have watched two more episodes.

I've completed it.

You're all done? Yeah. I think the thing we left out of our first conversation about it, which is really important, is they love it. I think it's so important. They love it so much. When that girl who's been injured is like, it's the best five years of my life, and I'm afraid the rest of my life is not even going to live up to it. She loves it. We had our own criticisms of certain observations, but I want to be clear. The reason I don't mind any of it is they want to do it so bad, and they're so happy doing it. Does it destroy their body? Yeah, probably. But so does football.

Yeah. I mean, that's why I said, I think it's a very interesting depiction of being attached to an identity. Because they do love it, but there are real... There are issues, one being that they're 23 and have to have hip surgeries. That's rough. And some Some of them, as you keep watching, they like it, but they know it's not good for them, mentally, even. But they can't put it down because who are they if they put it down?

Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is I have to be fair and make it equivalent to any other sport where people are really deciding like, yeah, man, I could get CTE. That's very common. Or I'm a boxer and I have to fucking lose 12 pounds in a week or I'm a boxer and I have to destroy my body. I think people want to write it off as something frivolous. But if you're going to write that off as frivolous, then I think you have to write off all sports as frivolous. I think it's either you think it's fine to basically trade your body for this pursuit or not.

Yeah.

Of course, I can't relate at all. I'm like, oh, my God, to be judged. God, they're like in the military. It's like, your kick sucked. Yes, ma'am.

Excited to hear it. Yes, ma'am. Is so triggering. I mean, I can relate. I can relate to it more than probably most people can. And in the last episode, to the end of the season, and it's so sad. It's over, and they're going to have a new team next year, and some of these people won't be there. And I just was like, yeah, it's a testament to identity, but also community, this thing we keep learning over and over and over again, which is that is the most important thing. And that's what they're I had to lose. Sisterhood. Deep kinship and idea that only this group knows what this is like. I still feel that when I was watching, I was like, oh, God, I was thinking about my squads. I still feel that. Like, only I think those people on Earth, those 20 people, will know what that feeling was in that moment.

Thirty-six. They're still cutting on my end.

Oh, I mean for me. My squad was small.

Oh, yeah.

Still, when I think about all those people, we all had a shared experience. I don't know what most of those people are doing right now anymore, but we had this very special thing, and it's beautiful.

Yeah. I think the craziest thing, the two craziest things are first, the flying up in the air down into the splits, landing straight in the splits is insane. I cannot believe it. It's like they're trying to break their hips. Yeah. But I think even crazier than that for me was the notion that they all have to report to a hair salon. And here's where the cultural thing is really wild, because you have one girl from New Jersey, which every city has got it to look, and But she's in Dallas, so they just send them all to the salon, and then they let these three human beings decide what color hair they should have. And they really have no say in it. And this guy was in this blonde, and they're like, You definitely need to be chestnut brown. And she's like, Okay. And they're just chopping and dying people's hair however they fucking want. And then you see them looking at the pictures later. It's like, they're not even sure they made the right decision. The coaches are like, Oh, I don't know. Was that the right color?

I know. Not to mention, this is before they've made the team.

Yes, they could still get caught.

And they do. And it's just like, Oh, my. It's a mind fuck.

It's a real all in, man. I've never seen an all-in where you actually also have to get whatever hair do they tell you to get. Other than the military, you should get in your head shaved and basic.

Yeah.

But fuck, they love it. Oh, my God. I was watching it with Delta, and I said, When someone gets cut, all the gals come around, they hug the person, and they're all crying. And I, of course, was like, I was panicked. I was like, God, if I was in that situation, I don't cry very easy. I'd have to really be trying. And I said to Delta, Do you think anyone's faked are fake crying? And she said, Oh, yeah, I think half of them are fake crying. No, they're not. And we were really looking, and there's no tears. Some of the people that were sobbing the hardest, their faces were bone dry.

I think that they're not all crying. You can be sad and not cry.

I think they're being really nice, but I don't know that they're... Well, Delta and I think only about half were actually crying.

I think you'd be surprised what happens when you're in that much of a pressure cooker. Everyone's emotions are just ready to brim for anything.

True, true, true. Heightened, heightened, heightened.

Whether or not you actually are that sad, anything off kilter is going to make you cry. It's such an intense environment.

Yeah. Okay, the other crazy moment, and I don't know, people probably not like that I ask this, but There's a storyline where a girl goes back home and you're meeting her parents, and the parents are being very honest about the fact that they only stayed together for the kids. And then the second the kids moved away, they got divorced. And so we're watching this whole thing, and Delta and I are snuggling in bed. I said, If mommy and daddy didn't like each other anymore, would you want us to stay married or would you want us to get divorced? I said, Because I would definitely stay married for you. Luckily, I like mommy, so that's not an issue. But I would do that so I could wake up in the same house with you every day. And I'm totally assuming she's going to say, Yeah, I'd want you to stay married. And she's like, No, you should never be with someone you don't want to be with for me. And I was like, How is this kid at nine years old? This fucking emotional Emotionally stable. Yeah. It blew my mind. It was almost like a rhetorical question.

I just wanted to know how she felt about this dynamic. There's two adults crying, and I don't even know that she's ever even been introduced to this concept that parents might stay together. And so I'm almost like, well, if this is a kernel in her head, let's talk about it now. And she's just like, no, I would want you to- I also, I don't want to say that...

She is very emotionally stable. But I don't want to say that if somebody had another opinion, that that means they're not emotionally stable, because I think both are very valid opinions.

Yes, Lincoln, I didn't ask her. We didn't watch it together. But I know Lincoln would said she would want us to stay together no matter what. Yeah.

Exactly. And that's fair and correct, too.

Yeah, there's not a right or a wrong answer. It was just shocking to hear her say, I want you to be that.

Especially to their dad. It's one thing if You're just having a philosophical debate about it, but telling your dad, Oh, it's okay. If you want to go.

If you want to get out of here.

If you want to ditch this popsicle stand, go ahead.

Blow this joint.

I 100,000 % would have said, Stay together. Stay together.

I think that's most- Be miserable. Yeah, for me, because I need you, and I need you guys.

Yeah, I don't want- I still feel that. Sure. I'd rather you guys just be together.

Yeah. Even if you don't like it, I want to come home to this one house. Yeah, and I'm not even there.

I want to come home three times a year, and you better be there.

You better be there as a unit, one unit.

I know. It's really selfish. As someone who wants to overcome those feelings, I would now say, yes, of course, everyone should be happy, but innately.

It was cool, too, because it almost felt like by the parents divulging this whole history of theirs, what I was initially interpreting was that that was hard that she had to do that. But the final message the mom says is she's like, I'm so I did that, and I do it a thousand more times. The mom has zero regret that she did that, and that was a little unexpected. I thought that was interesting.

Yeah. But Delta is wired interestingly in that way. You said when you watch Parenthood during the Crosby-Jasmin thing.

Yeah, Lincoln wanted to slip my throat. Of course. She's so nice.

Of course, he cheated on her.

I like Gabby. I would have done it, too.

I know. I really wonder how she's going to be as an adult.

Yeah. In a relationship, if she's going to be so laissez-faire or not. Yeah. And then you wonder, is there a genetic component? I mean, this definitely is my position.

I know, which is weird. But I wonder if that's learned also from you in some way. I mean, not that you say anything explicitly.

I don't. That's the thing is I'm not ever talking about having been in an open relationship. I mean, the only thing that I have said to them, which is naturally they see TV shows, a parent cheats, and then the family gets divorced. And when I've told them numerous no facts. It was just a lovely human story.Human story. Yeah.I feel lucky that he got to tell us that.Me too. It's such a good one.I really hope people listen. I really, really do. It's very inspiring. It makes you feel so much gratitude, I hope. It makes me anyway.Yeah, same. All right. Well, I love you. This has been a blast. And next time we talk, I may or may not be bailing Eric out of jail. We're not done with the trip. I was saying, what if this smoking incident went to trial here in Norway? And then out of nowhere, a representative for Merck's rental cars showed up as a character witness to say.Oh my God.That's great.That is great.All right. All right. Love you. Love you.

no facts. It was just a lovely human story.

Human story. Yeah.

I feel lucky that he got to tell us that.

Me too. It's such a good one.

I really hope people listen. I really, really do. It's very inspiring. It makes you feel so much gratitude, I hope. It makes me anyway.

Yeah, same. All right. Well, I love you. This has been a blast. And next time we talk, I may or may not be bailing Eric out of jail. We're not done with the trip. I was saying, what if this smoking incident went to trial here in Norway? And then out of nowhere, a representative for Merck's rental cars showed up as a character witness to say.

Oh my God.

That's great.

That is great.

All right. All right. Love you. Love you.