Okay.

So what time is it?

It is 09:52 p.m. And where do.

We just come from?

What do we just do? We went on a Blaine double date.

We did it.

And then we sat in the car in silence, listening to Taylor's clip so that we wouldn't talk about it, so that we could share it with all of you.

That's right. We decided we would come straight home and wait and process this all aloud for all of you.

So we have not talked about what just happened.

I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I have so many thoughts.

Please share. What's the first one?

The first one is everyone should do that. Like, really? I think this is a true hack. And here's part of one of the outfits I almost wore. Oh, my God. We're also recording in my apartment, and.

It is a disaster.

I think one of the reasons it's a hack is I was not. This might be bad. I don't know. But I don't have any negative judgment on either of them. But I think it's because the environment we created, it didn't have that normal date vibe where you're evaluating the other person. It was just having fun and chatting. So even just on the ride home, listening to Taylor, I was like, do I like them?

Uh huh.

And of course, the first thought was, yes, they're great. I can't think of anything negative, but I know 100% for certain if I was on a one on one date with either of those two, I would have had negative stuff 100% because I would be looking at it through that lens. Like, so much of it is just how you fucking look at the world.

This wasn't a job interview. It was like a hangout. Yeah.

Yeah.

You don't go into a date just. Or maybe we did, like, I don't know, a long time ago. But, like, in our thirties, I feel like I don't approach it with the same kind of levity, that the goal should be to have fun on the date.

Yeah. No steaks.

No steaks.

And no steaks. Cause we didn't get meat dishes.

We didn't. It was all vegan. Because of meat. No, no, no.

I feel like that's meat.

They did.

Yeah, they got you.

Oh, okay, good. Okay. I feel like. I mean, I like that he paid a lot of attention to the fact that I was vegetarian.

Yes. Both were very adult. They were not boys. No, I appreciated that a lot. They walked us to the car after and. Which I really was not expecting. Cause we were together.

I wouldn't have. That's true.

Like, why we're together. But it was just nice. Like, they were really nice. Oh, my God. But as soon as we got there, me and you were there first, and we were like, how are we gonna sit? How are we gonna arrange the seating?

Yeah. Are we face to face? Are we next to each other?

Exactly. So we sat next to each other. I sat in the booth furthest, and then you sat aisle.

I did.

I sat window.

You sat aisle. Which is a preferred seating. Yeah, it is. And then my guy sat in front.

Of you across from me.

Your guy? Yeah. Sat across from me.

I know. And as soon as that happened, I was like, uh oh. I kind of. Did you have a little panic?

I did. Well, it took me 20 minutes into the date that I was like, oh, right, this is the wrong order. But also, like, great. And, like, going with the flow. You know what? That seating arrangement is probably what kept it, like, a fun group thing, because there was no pressure for me and him or for you and the other guy to, like, connect.

Bridge off. Yes. Yeah. Oh, wow. Oh, my God. So that's part of the hack. Okay, so you do diagonals. Wait, so how do you feel?

I mean, I already have a text.

Oh, my God.

So should I. Okay. It's like, read it here. Okay. Read it. Liz, that was so fun. Thanks for making the trip. Love to do it again.

That's sweet.

And there was. At the end. Well, when we walked out, I think there was, like, a little moment of, like, okay, we're gonna have a moment.

Like, a second with our per. I didn't have that.

So do you.

Yeah.

How do you feel? Like, was there any point where you were like, this might.

Again? I think that's.

That's not how you're even.

That's not how I approached it. Which is probably bad in some ways for me. Cause it's a good way to avoid that. But it was also good because I was just open to knowing a new person.

Right.

So I don't know where I'm at. Even still in my head, I don't know where I am in, like, do I want to go on another date with that person?

Interesting.

Because one thing is, as soon as we got in the car, I did think, what are we gonna do? Are we gonna just keep doing this? Are the four of us just gonna keep going out? That's kind of fun. Like, maybe the four of us.

It's a thing.

Yeah, because we had, like, a few mini plans. Like, what you do on a date, like, we're. Next time we'll do this. We had a few of those that were including all of us.

Yes. Watching couples therapy.

Yeah. I can't go on a date and not bring up couples therapy. That's my thing. And then, like, sauna or something. I don't know.

We talked about sauna and cold plunges, and there was, like, a third one again. Okay, but wait, you never at any point thought, well, I think I did.

But I didn't stay there. Like, I couldn't stay there because we were in the middle of, like, general conversation.

Sure.

Okay. Did you think it ever got awkward? Well, you did get in a little fight with my guy for a second.

Oh, I did. I know.

Just for, like, 15 seconds. Obviously masculine.

Yeah, well, you know, women's sports, sure.

But my guy was not.

No. Aggressive or aggressive, you know, but it was.

I did get a little scared when that was happening, but he let me.

Win with the truth, which is that women are better at ultra long marathon races and therefore have more endurance than men. But no, there was one moment where I was like, oh, is this all ten? At the beginning, I was nervous. Cause I decided not to drink. And then I immediately regretted it. Like, as soon as they were sitting there, because my guy was way hotter than I thought. Way more my type, actually, than what I thought. Cause I was in it for the bit. Was in it for a night out with you. Let's meet these guys. It'll be fun. Like, it'll be a good story. That's the worst thing that can happen. But I immediately was like, oh, God, yeah, yeah. I was gonna be like, he's great. So I'm very smitten.

Wow.

Very. Are you surprised by that?

I'm surprised by the amount. Oh, he's great. But this is interesting. I wonder if I wasn't there, if you would still have that feeling interesting. On our way there, I said, do you think there's a possibility there'll be a sense of competition? And then we kind of blew that off. Did you feel any of that or.

No, I didn't feel competition, honestly. What I felt was, like, it was harder for me to go deep to connect which good or bad on a date I really want to do. But, well, sometimes I go a little too deep. And so it wasn't competition. It was more like, at one point, I was like, okay, you're not gonna find out that much about him. And that's okay. It was a lighter conversation than a typical date. But again, that's probably what made it fun. And maybe, again, why I like him so much. Cause I don't know that much about him.

There's still some mystery, I guess.

I just found him very, like, dreamy. Like, he reminded me of a. Oh, who's the actor? Life is beautiful and succession. Oh, my God.

Jeremy strong.

No, I'm blanking. I don't know. He's tall and handsome in black hair.

Nicholas Braun.

No, he's not a main character. He was, like. Like, a financier, like an investor. Oh, my God. I'm, like, forgetting his. You've, like, interviewed him.

Oh, Adrian Brosnan. Yeah.

He gave me Adrian. Not the personality, just the esthetic. Esthetic and LinkedIn pixelated photo in my head. This was, like, a finance guy that maybe would be fun, but maybe wouldn't be that aligned. And I was like, oh, this is actually a guy that's my type.

Basically.

I was like, oh, this is my type.

And what do you think is your type?

I think my type is smart but can be fun and goofy, emotionally aware, or emotionally has done some emotional work. Those are the top three, I would say. And, like, he's stylish. Oh, you don't think we, like, share common values?

I didn't say that.

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

I did not say that.

When you saw him, did you think he was my type?

No, I don't know what your type is.

Okay. It's all over the place.

I also don't think. I don't know. This is, like, sort of back to our conversation about leagues. Like, I don't believe really in type.

Yeah.

I think everyone's so different. But what an interesting experiment.

Did you feel the sense of competition?

I didn't, but I wasn't, like, so attracted to one of them.

Right.

If I was, I might have. I don't know. I mean, I would hope not, but you never know. But I'm asking you because you do.

Really, like, I feel like I need to spend more time with him.

Yeah, but.

But that was fun. And, again, it felt like I met someone at a party.

Exactly.

And, oh, we had a cool conversation, and then, totally, let's hang out again. Is the hack to just not have deep, like, to try, and when it's.

One on one, it's very hard. Yeah, it's inevitable. I think there is something really unique about diluting it all, because even when you're in a group, you can make jokes that you might not make one on one on a first date. There was, like, a couple things said that were just fun and funny, but I bet if I was by myself, I would have read into them.

Right.

We overthink so much when it. It's strictly a date by natural standards, but this isn't. So you could just be. Or you could look at it much differently. Yeah. Really, really interesting. They picked a great spot.

A really good mexican place halfway in between.

Very gentlemanly, both of them.

We were worried about how.

Oh, yeah. I was like, how's that gonna go? It's like, I guess we all sort of, like, offer, you know, we did offer, and they split it. Which is what you thought was gonna happen. That was your prediction? Yeah. Really fascinating. I'm really glad we did it.

Wow. And so you at no point were like, I wanna make a move, or like, someone said something and you were like, oh, like, I'm attracted to that.

There were things said that I was impressed by.

Yeah.

I mean, there were tons of things that I liked about both of them. I thought they were both, like, really interesting. And I was looking at them as just people, not as partners.

Right.

There's a thread of, for me, that being problematic, but ultimately, I don't think it is. That is what I want to do on dates. It's just like, do I like this person? Take away the other shit. Is this just a person that I enjoy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

First and foremost. But we don't even. We skip that part. Cause we're so quick to go to. Do I wanna be in a relationship with this person? Do I want them to? It's like, it's a first date. It shouldn't be that. It should be. Is this an enjoyable person?

Am I having fun?

Yeah.

Am I enjoying this? Yeah.

I wonder.

Okay, do you think that this is how guys approach all dates? Like, I feel like a lot of guys come into a date this way where they're not necessarily like, is this person gonna fuck me over? Right. Like. Or like, is this person, you know.

Yeah. They're not over. Right.

Not overthinking it. And so maybe that's why guys. That's how they're approaching it, and then we're. Oh, imagine if that's. I mean, again, we can't generalize.

I know, exactly. Cause, like, we've been on dates with people and they don't move forward.

Sure.

So men are doing that, too. Yeah, it just depends.

Yeah.

I wonder what their car rides are.

I know.

And their car ride after.

I'm so curious. I wish we could be flying the wall.

So also, somebody asked you out today. Another person asked you out today.

Wait, can I just finish? Do you think it's, like, the friends episode where, like, we're having a full hour long conversation about the date, and they're like, that was cool. Yeah. And that was it.

Yeah, probably.

We're like, I wonder what they're saying about us.

They're just, like, eating chicks.

Yeah. They're literally, like, burping and farting and just, like, going to bed.

Yeah.

I mean, and that's kind of part of it. Right? Like, we tend to call it overthinking or being overly analytical about relationships. I think we think about relationships way more than men do overall. And so it wouldn't surprise me. And it doesn't mean that they didn't like it as much as we did. It's just that they have a different way to process it. But. Sorry I cut you off. Oh, I tried to set up a second double date on the day of our double date.

Oh, yeah. Someone asked you out today earlier, and you tried to make it a double date again. What'd you say?

What I used on this double date. Should we give him on LinkedIn guy? Is that what we're calling him? LinkedIn guy and his friend?

Yeah.

Who is french canadian, by the way.

Yeah. Very, very.

So I said, hey, would love to meet. I'm trying something new if you're down, sort of, like, presenting it as, like, a challenge.

Yeah.

Like, men love challenges, so. And everyone does. Right? Like, almost like a dare. So, like, if you're game, I'm trying out something new where I'm trying to make first dates suck less by making them more fun and casual. So if you're down to bring a friend, I'm gonna bring my friend Monica. And I was like, she's a smoke show. Here's a photo. And then I sent a photo of the both of us. And then I waited for the answer, and LinkedIn guy was so. Well, it took a few hours. And I was like, he probably thinks I'm nuts and he knows nothing about me, and so why would he be game to do something like this? But then he was like, yeah, sure, let's do it. He was so into it.

But this guy was this coffee shop guy. Shop guy was like, no.

Yeah. Essentially, like, I don't know if I have. I'm like, would love to meet you. And I'm like, I'm not doing that. I've just told you what we're doing, and here you're already not. Like, you're already flexible. You're already not supporting women well, but.

Also, it did weirdly make our guys tonight look so much cooler. It's like they're just down. They're just like, why not? Why wouldn't we just go do this?

It's such a turn on.

Yeah. It's kind of telling.

It is. It says a lot about them. And also, again, I didn't know what to expect. That maybe they'd be weird or like. But the way they showed up too. They did it perfectly. I think they. Ten out of ten.

They did.

We set the bar really high. If we do this again, that's the only problem. True. But at the same time, I mean, why not? Yeah.

I am serious. I think this is, like, good for singles.

I agree. That was, like, one of the best nights I've had in, like, a long time. Because it combined. It's like going for the best hike of your life. And then you're like, oh, and I got a workout out of it. It's like two stones. One bird, 1 st, two birds.

It's two stones.

Anyway, we'll cut that far away.

It's late, but. Okay. One other thing. Well, two things. When my therapist endorsed this last week, I had therapy.

Been waiting for that endorsement.

I know. I was kind of nervous to tell her.

You were?

Yeah. Because I thought she might say, what's really the point of this? But I told her, and she asked a few questions. And then she said, I think this is great because it takes the pressure off for me. It's like, how do I be the most me on a date? This is the best way with your friend, right? Like, you can't not be you when you're with your friend. It would be so. Oh, okay. Pin.

Okay. Let's talk about who we were.

We felt about what we felt about each other.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. But anyway, so she said she thought it was great. And then I said, yeah, I think what I like about it is Liz and I would be going to dinner anyway on a Thursday. That's our normal life. So the test is kind of like, who fits into my normal life? That's my general idea of dating. Like, who's gonna come fit in nicely with my life that I love and enjoy very much and I'm very fulfilled by. So. Yeah, like, really good way to do that. I did feel like myself.

That's great.

Did you feel like yourself?

I felt like myself too.

You felt like you to me too.

You felt like me to me. Look, when it's just the two of us, it obviously is different. Less unhinged.

A little more presentable, I guess, right.

Which already, I feel like when we are in a group, we're like, that we'll not go down again. Like, there was one little moment of chaos about the cactus, and then I really needed to tell you about this synced moment you posted about a cactus. And then I got picked by a cactus. What do you call that when a cactus.

Yeah, you invites you bites? I think it's pricked.

Pricked. Okay. I got pricked by a cactus the same day, and then they were talking about cactus tacos. They were ordering, and I was like, I need sidebar. We sidebarred. And so. But I would have sidebarred more, maybe, but I refrained and look like it was different. Just the two of us would have been different and probably more fun in certain ways, but being with them was more fun in another way. Exactly.

But did you think, okay, what would you say after seeing that my date Persona is.

Oh, that's interesting. I think your date Persona is, you're a very good listener. You're a very active listener. You're very, like, encouraging when people tell stories. And, like, you are like, wow. And like, huh? And, like, sometimes I was like, she's not that on about that thing. Like, she's not that impressed.

Really?

Yeah. Sometimes I was like, oh, you thought I was.

I was like, nicer.

You were nicer. And sometimes we almond hot at the same time. And I was like, oh, we're both being nice. Or, like, this isn't something that we necessarily. I mean, when you talked about that. So one of the conversations that was, like, important is that one of them is building, like, some sort of crazy hotel with, like, a. And he just mentioned, like. And then the spa is like. And we were like, we need to get back to the spa.

He mentioned the spa very briefly in this conversation, and as soon as he said spa, immediately all I could think about was the spa and getting a massage and wanting to go to a spa, and when am I gonna go?

I couldn't listen to anything else exactly.

For, like, four minutes.

I was like, what about this spot? And then we both. Both said at the same time, can we go?

And I was like, it's all I've.

Been thinking about since you said it.

So that was the most. Probably the most unhinged.

Yeah.

We both stopped listening and really just thought about the story. Spa for six minutes. We are supported by element. Element is a zero sugar electrolyte drink mix born from the growing body of research revealing that optimal health outcomes occur at sodium levels two to three times government recommendations, which is why we use element to stay hydrated and healthy. We love it. We proselytize it, we give it out at parties. And now they've debuted their new element, sparkling, which delivers the same zero sugar, caffeine free electrolyte formulation you already know and trust. But now in bold, 16 ounce cans of sparkling water, which is so exciting because sometimes I like eventizing a drink, you know, like, I want it to be a thing. If I'm doing a little house clean, I like having some sort of beverage, whether it's like, hot water, tea, or wine, or. Now, this is nice to have, like, an actual can of something. Yes.

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Exactly.

Therapy is a safe space to get things off your chest and to figure out how to work through whatever's weighing you down. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give betterhelp a try. It's all online. It's convenient, it's flexible. It's suited to your schedule, so you don't really have any excuses to not go. And you just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists anytime, which I think is huge because, you know, it takes a few sometimes to find the right person, but they have a lot of options, so it'll be great.

Get it off your chest with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com synced today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp help.com synced. You were funny. I thought you were probably, like, a cross in between, obviously, like, you and me hanging out and, like, honestly, your amazing ability at being an interviewer and just, like, being so good at conversation and not, like, fully, you know, you're interviewing them, but just the mix of those skills, but still being you and funny and light and, you know.

But, yeah, we were less.

We didn't really, like, tell that many weird stories about ourselves.

We were pretty tangled.

Yes, that's true.

Yeah, you were.

Yeah. What was I like?

Same. Like, very. You ask a lot of questions, but you always do. Like, I think you're very good at asking questions all the time. Like, when we're even in. Like, when Ana, Jess and I hang out and you come, like, you ask a lot of questions. It's great. It never feels like there'll be silence. It's, like, feels safe.

Okay.

Which is good. Yeah. So that felt the same to me. And, yeah, you're very, like, affable. Like, you know, nice. I would say, actually, I'm surprised at how. How little of a Persona there was.

Okay. Okay.

That it just really did feel normal. Except you're right. If we're at 100, normally, you were at a 75.

Right.

Of weirdness, of intensity across the board of character.

Yes.

And I think that's true. Me too, probably.

I mean, it's funny because there was a point, I think we even talked about this on the show where I was, like, dating someone or going on dates and then we would hang out, especially when we first met. And I was, like, falling in love with you. And I was like, oh, my God, it's so much more fun with Monica. And I was comparing my dates to my time with you, which I remember consciously thinking that's probably not a good idea. And recently, my therapist really did say they're not gonna be, like, her girlfriends. And again, I think we've already talked about this, but it is something that bears repeating. And that, to me, was, like, a perfect example. I was getting something different out of tonight that I would have gone if we had just been one on one. And that one on one would have been incredible. But that also would have been a weird kind of energy to probably also bring to that if we.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, and maybe that's also why we go on dates. Or again, we have romantic partnerships that those things are different from our friendships and are supposed to be different. And you do have a different Persona or side of yourself that it brings out. Yeah. And that. That's kind of a good thing. I love that you love this. It's the one thing that intersects. Like, we are so different, and no one ever wants to do this with me. I've been, like, dying to do this for a decade. And the fact that you. That is, like, out of left field and so exciting, I cannot. I mean, we have this in the social media, but, like, we cannot stress this enough of how little Monica knew about what she was getting into.

I did not know his name.

I didn't know his name. We had no information on the other guy. We didn't even know the relate. Like, for all he knew, he was like, a stranger up when we sat down. Like, maybe he's bringing his kid.

Yeah. I was sure in my heart that your guy, that LinkedIn guy, misunderstood the assignment. I was like, he's not. I think he didn't know really what Liz was asking. And he's gonna bring, like, his marriage friend.

Right.

Or his kid. It's like, another person.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did not ask any questions or clarification. Yeah, it was like, sure.

Cool.

We'll be there Thursday. And then, like, no, and also.

Okay, that's another thing for me. So this is the first date ever that I haven't rescheduled.

What?

That's my move. That's my thing. I always reschedule it at least once. It's not. It's not. I was joking when I said, it's my move. It's not something I do on purpose. It happens because I'm anxious, obviously, and not just because I'm anxious, but because I always would rather do something else. Always. So things always come up, and so I'm like, no, I rather do that other thing. So I always reschedule. Something did come up for tonight that I really did want to go to. Two things. It happened twice. I had two opportunities.

Wow.

One was a big girl's dinner for Molly's birthday.

Oh.

We were planning the day, and we were going to this one place, and they were closed on Tuesday, and so they said, how about Thursday? And I said, hmm, what do I do? Like, I want to make sure the dinner for my best friend is good, so I should probably, like, reschedule the date. But no, I'm not going to reschedule it. So I chose not to reschedule. And then it happened again, and I chose not to reschedule. Part of it is because there's just so many factors that it's like, oh, it's four people. I can't, like, rearrange four people's schedules. And then I also thought, there's no way that we're gonna do this. Like, somebody is gonna fall through, and then. No, I know. We scheduled it, and it happened. That's shocking.

And it was great.

And it was great.

Ten out of ten.

But partly. Okay, we have talked about this before, although I think me and you have different opinions on it because you're better than me about being out and about. I don't have many bad dates.

Wow.

I just have. I don't think we're a match, but, like, the hang itself is always fine and fun.

Huh.

I mean, I don't normally go out with people unless I, like, know something about them. Much different than tonight. And I've talked to my therapist about that, too. Like, I don't understand. Like, it's enjoyable. It's, like, fine, and conversation's good, but I don't want to keep seeing that person. I don't want to keep going.

Sure, you bring it up in therapy, meaning you're confused about why you don't want to go on more dates if you enjoy them.

Right. What's the disconnect here? If I like the time, I should want to keep going. And we've sort of come to the conclusion that this is gonna sound braggy, and I really don't mean it, but it's sort of what you were just saying. Like, I can have a sort of interesting conversation with most people.

Yeah.

And so can you. Like, I feel that there's very few circumstances where I'm gonna not be able to, like, find some common ground and just, like, lean into that.

That's really interesting. Just because you're able to talk to anybody doesn't mean you enjoy it, though, right?

I can find a way to enjoy it.

Okay.

But then I didn't get that much out of it in a meaningful way. I just had, like, a good time. So then, you know, you go on a second or third date, and then that's really when I'm like, it's the same. It's just, like, it's not getting more for me. Again, the time spent is fine. And so I find that I rarely. And this is also just so lucky, but I rarely leave a date and think, like, yikes, that was so, so bad. In fact, I don't think I've ever done that.

I think that's wonderful, but it gets confusing. I think you are extremely careful about who you go on. Exactly. And I think I've become, especially in the last, I would say, five years, much more open to who I'm going on dates with because I realized that there are many things I have in my list and that I'll go on a date and, like, it won't be the right fit, but someone who doesn't have whatever right, these things that I think I'm looking for, but that person might actually be a better fit. So, yeah, that's why I. But sometimes I feel like I'm on the extreme other end of. There are so many people that I should have never gone on date with, never let alone go on a second date with or let into my house or, you know, get in the car with also. It's so funny. It's not a perfect segue, but I was just talking the other day with this woman about her worst day. Like, she was like, oh, yeah. I went on a date with a guide. And he. I don't know if people are gonna be mad at us, but, like, this guy had no teeth and then was.

Definitely on drugs, and people can't be mad at us.

Well, I'm just. I know.

I mean, they can, but that's not our problem. Okay.

It's a big surprise.

I think most people, if they went on a first date and then the person didn't have teeth, most people would not be super happy about that.

Yeah. Or would expect teeth. I think we go into.

Oh, my God. Okay. What world are we living in that we can't say that? Truly? I mean.

Yeah. And then he was on drug, and, like, she had known him. He was the hottest guy she'd ever seen. They had a fling five years ago. Then he was like, hey, I'm back in town. Like, she's like, great, let's meet up. And then she didn't recognize him. He clearly had been through. Yeah. Either.

Yes.

And then was on drugs with, like, teeth. Had an eye patch.

He did not have an eye patch.

No, he literally did. They went to see movement, and he put on an eye patch to what? It was just a comical amount of accessories and lack of. Thereof. And then she was like, oh, yeah, and there's the other day where I almost got kidnapped. And. And then I was like, what do you think is most of our guy friends worst date? A woman's worst date.

Is that right?

Like, I went on when I literally got choked. But, like, a guy's worst date if he's straight with a woman. Like, again, I'm not saying all women are great, but it's probably not in the range of, like, I think it's different.

Yeah. We recorded an armchair anonymous episode. There's actually. We're doing two parts for it. Cause they were intense stories and long stories stalking this week. And of course, I was like, oh, my God, men are so scared.

Wait.

Cause I happen to be all female.

Most are.

Right.

Exactly.

But there were men that rode in, but they didn't follow up when Emma reached out. And I don't think it's true that most stalkers are men, because celebrity stalkers, I feel like a fair amount, are women.

Sure.

And baby reindeer.

There's baby reindeer.

Yeah. But the level of threat is often different, and that's what's so fucked. The number might be the same, but the type is a lot more extreme when it's a male.

Yes.

Why am I bring that up? There was something about, well, that's a bad date. Yes. You know, so it's uneven.

Like, uneven. The threat of a bad date for.

A woman is, like, they might kill you. It happens.

It happens.

And likely a woman. Honestly, they just probably don't look like.

What the person expected, which is awful for those men.

So I think it's, like, the worst.

They're the biggest victims.

Yeah.

The men who they expected, they expected.

From ten years ago, and they're really.

Moment of silence.

It's a moment of betrayal.

Yeah. Dating.

Or, like, I've heard some men talk about bad dates, and the bad date basically being that the woman likes them too much.

Oh, my God.

Which.

Okay. So infuriating.

It is. It is. And it's bad. It's bad. And. And to be fair, I have felt that.

Uh huh.

Like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you're too into. This.

Person likes me a lot more than I like them.

Yeah. That can happen.

Yeah. But that's not the worst thing.

Not the worst. And also, one thing I started doing was let a bad date be bad, because, again, I can make conversation with a tree. Exactly. But there was a point where, particularly as a woman, I realized, oh, wow. I got asked zero questions. But also, I didn't even let a moment of silence. I didn't make him uncomfortable about that. I made him seem like this was the best time ever. And so I started actually, like, not doing. Not again. I know what I could ask you and what would be so interesting and make this date great, but I'm not gonna do it because you're not pulling your weight. And that was honestly such a hack, because then I didn't have to send the text afterwards being like. Like they would feel it.

Yeah.

As opposed to. To leap and be like, oh, my God, that was so great. And then I was like, I hate you. Or, you know, I'm not into it, but that's hard to do too. But more honest.

Have you ever left a date in the middle, or have you ever done that thing where it's like, you make a friend call you?

I have never made up. I probably have, but usually I feel like that's too obvious, but I've gone where, like, we sit down, we have a drink, and then I'm like, I'm gonna go. So the date was like an hour, and it's clear you cut it off early. Cut it off early. But, no, I've never left a date. I think it's still another person. Unless they're yelling at you. You know what I mean? Like, or, again, on drugs or there's a threat, the decent thing is to engage with the person in front of you.

But also, if you're super uncomfortable, I do think it's okay to leave a situation.

For sure. When I've been uncomfortable, it's been too late. And then I'm like, oh, God. I'm not opposed to faking the emergency, but I feel like nowadays, if that's what you're like, it's so obvious. Like, if that happens to you on a date, actually, they're gonna think you're lying. You have to, like, show proof of the text.

Although if you ever need that, you can always go back into our old text. And the picture of when I cut my finger cutting onions, that would necessitate.

Leaving the middle of a dirt. A dirt coming up. So tired.

I know it's late for us.

It's alert.

But we really wanted to.

We wanted debrief.

I'm so glad we did it.

Me too.

I'm really glad we did it.

Thanks for being so game.

I know this planning it outside of.

Your comfort zone, and I appreciate it, but it is.

And I don't think it's fair for me to say it is, because it is in a way that I just don't like dating, but it isn't in that this was the very safest way for me to do that.

Yay.

And it felt like that. Okay, so did you think it didn't get awkward? But I wondered, as they were walking us to our car, is there gonna be, like, a kissing situation? Probably not just by virtue of the way this is set up, but also, do you normally kiss on first dates?

I didn't used to at all. Kissing is so intimate. And then I've let myself do it, but I do not force it. If I'm not 100% full in, I'm not doing it. But I've done it. And it's kind of nice. But I would say 20% 1st date will get a kiss.

Right.

What about you?

Majority. No.

Yeah.

I mean, it happened. Oh, that was another thing we were. You know, it's bad when they live far away, but it's also good when they live far away because you don't risk run ins.

We will never run into them.

No, we won't.

In the neighborhood. And we get to choose when we see them. We like that. Yeah.

Okay. We'll do a couple questions, but we're gonna keep it pretty tight because we're tired. But was there anything else that we needed to discuss?

I think that's it. I had so much fun.

Me too.

It was the best.

Yeah, it was really nice.

It's also, like, so fun. Cause we've both been single since we've known each other. And I was like, oh, this is kind of like a new way to be her friend. Like a new situation to be in. That was different. And that felt fun, too. Like, separately from them. Totally.

Yeah. There were so many things happening.

But do you think I should go on a date with him? Yeah, but you're not super.

Well, I'm not a love addict.

Okay, so you didn't go, like, wow. Like, they would be a great match?

No, I thought, like, they're great.

Okay.

But I, like, I get this is my issue, that I am even doing this, that I'm like, Liz, you need to be a little careful with this guy. No, not because of him. It's just, like, based on we had a super fun night. You should be excited to go on a date with him. The tech should be exciting. But, like. Or just different. Like, I'm so smitten is, to me, a bit extreme. Based on what happened, not based on him. Right. Based on the evening, I think it'd be like, he was great. I definitely want to go on another date with him. I want to know more about him. I can see what's happening in your face. I can. And then you said it, and I was like, oh, okay. You 100% should. Great. But I feel like you're already in love with them, and I want you to not do that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Got it.

The problem is sometimes I sound like an asshole on here.

No, I do.

But it is based in lots of conversations that we've had that are on.

Air and also seeing.

And some on air.

Yes. Yeah. And also you see, like, what happens when.

The aftermath.

The aftermath. And there always is.

I think he's definitely worth seeing. It's just seeing how it goes.

Yeah.

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Shout out to Claritin for supporting this episode and providing us with samples, which is awesome, because luckily, for those of us who live with the symptoms of allergies, we can live Claritin clear with claritin D. I developed allergies.

Me too.

It's so frustrating because for a while, I didn't know what it was. I was just like, I'm sick all the time. What is this? And it was just allergies.

It is. And the thing I've learned with years of dealing with allergies is that if I don't take a claritin, like, it just seems to get worse and worse. Like, something that, like, an allergy reaction, which might be, like, subtle. Just like, I feel it so much more if I don't take a Claritin.

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I just keep it with me in case I'm going somewhere. We're like, I don't know if there's gonna be a cat there. I don't know if there's gonna be something I'm allergic to. I just having it, like, it was, like, 02:00 a.m. And I had to get claritin delivered at 02:00 a.m. And I was, like, freaking out. Cause I was like, oh, my God. This is why I need it with me at all times, because you never know when you're gonna have an allergic reaction.

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Six. Whoa.

And need quite a bit of space in bed. I'm also easily woken up by sounds, movement and contact. And I struggle with the temperature being hotter than what I'm used to alone. I have a king size bed, which helps some, but frankly, it's still challenging. If I'm at her place, she likely has a queen, so that's more difficult. I've had many dating experiences where we have a sleepover. I'm then exhausted the next day. I recover after a few days, but then I see her again and repeat the cycle. I want physical affection and intimacy, but when it comes to sleeping, I would much rather do that alone. This becomes a problem because in my experience, after sex, most women want to sleep together and are even expecting it. I think long term couples who live together get used to sleeping together because they do it every night. Or in some cases, they adopt strategies of sleeping in separate beds or rooms. But how do I manage this early in a relationship while dating? Should I just be really upfront with her that I have this issue? Any other strategies? Thanks, Joseph.

Oh, God. It's my whole life, and it's getting worse with age. We're more easily disturbed. I have an insane sleep process where I need to sleep with earplugs, two eye masks, a sound machine. No, I'm nuts. Full on.

Two eye masks.

Two? Why? Because one is not one's bad.

Can you just get one good one?

No. I used to be able to sleep with one good one, and now I need. It's so bad. Oh, no, I have a retainer. Similarly to Joseph, I slept in the same bed as my last hookup because I was, like, obsessed with him. And so I was like, I just won't sleep. That's fine. But I knew I wasn't gonna sleep. And I will just lie there fully awake for hours. And, yeah, the next day is totally miserable. So I would be so upfront. Also, the person that you're with might also prefer or have sleep issues or need specific things. Look, when it's happened to me where someone, whatever, I dated this guy that would, like, hug me and then literally turn around to the other end of.

This, the thing Ross does, the hug and roll. Hug and roll.

How many friends references can we make in an episode? He would do the hugging roll, but without the hug. Just push you over? Kinda. I mean, or just he would just move to the other side of the bed of it.

And you didn't like that?

I did. I think I was insecure in the relationship already, but I remember that it took me a few nights where I realized, okay, this is just what he does. And at one point he mentioned, like, oh, yeah, just like, I don't sleep really well. And I was like, if he had only kind of said that at the beginning, then I wouldn't have taken it personally. Right. So I would just over communicate about it. It's real. You're six six on top of it. Yeah, I would put that in. That's the headline.

I know, but, okay, not to make it gendered, I don't want to. But I do think he's right. That there's a probably fairly wide swath of women who do take offense to this. They have sex and then they left is painful to them. And I think some women are gonna not be able to hear your truth, which it is the truth, but they may have been lied to before, or it does seem like it could be a lie. If someone wanted to avoid intimacy. It is a good way to do it, but it's the truth. You do have to be really upfront and you have to say, I know it seems like I'm trying to avoid intimacy. It is not that.

Say it at the beginning. What sort of the expectation? Right.

Also, like, snuggle. Don't just, like, have sex and then run out. That is bad. When it's sleepy time, you leave.

Yes. And say, I wish I could lie next to you. And, like, no. Say, you know, like, you're so beautiful and so may. Okay, you hate that. I need that.

No, no.

But it was just funny because then you're reinforcing the fact that, like, this isn't about I want distance from you or like, I'm grossed out by you. It's like, say all the things with affirmation and words. And also one word for you, Nyquil. When I knew that I would be sleeping over the first few nights, I would just take Nyquil or take. I know, whatever. This is not obviously a medical podcast.

And it's not attenable. You can't do that every day for the rest of your life.

As he said, though, you do adjust to the person. But it's the first few nights, and again the first night, often where you sleep zero minutes, take a helpful sleep thing, and then you'll adjust. If this is someone that you want to eventually sleep next to and you want to get through those first few nights, like, just give yourself a little help. Yeah, if it works.

Sorry, Joseph.

I know women are tough. Women are tough. But you're six'six. He'll be fine.

Yeah.

You got a lot going for you.

Okay. Oh, this is kind of interesting.

Okay.

Should I take a leap and cut all my hair off, even though I know my partner won't like it? This is from Elizabeth. Hey, Monica and Liz. Thanks for the great weekly combos. I know both of you can appreciate how important hair is to our identity. I've bounced between long bobs and longer hair my whole life. But lately, I've been feeling the desire to try something totally new and a little scary for me and do a pixie cut or even a buzz cut for a really bold and fashion forward look. I might hate it, but I feel like I wanna at least give it a try. Especially because it represents a step of freedom for me. I mentioned wanting to try short hair to my husband, and he said I could rock it. Of course, I immediately started my vision board and picturing my cool style with it. Then the next day, I brought it up again. When he realized I was serious, he got super sad. He said he loves my hair and he would be bummed if I cut it. We got into a little argument over this. He later came back and apologized for inserting himself into a choice about my own appearance and that I should do it if I want to.

I know he'll love me no matter what. But now that I realize he truly isn't into it or attracted to the idea of short hair, I'm torn. It's my body. But I recognize that we both want to look attractive to one another. And he chooses looks that he knows I like. Help. Should I go for it, or should I stick with what I know the love of my life prefers? I have bad advice.

Yeah, me too.

I don't think you should do it. Oh, it's bad advice. Like, I know the appropriate advice. It's your life, and it's your opportunity to express your freedom. And you should do it. Should always prioritize yourself and your needs. That's the right answer. And I think if you were my friend, I'd be like, how badly? How important is it if it truly is? If I don't do this, I won't feel like myself. But if it's just esthetically this could be fun, I probably wouldn't do it. Sorry. But that's my truth.

I mean, I think you could go both ways. She does mention that it represents freedom for her, but I think you're right. If it's just esthetics and you're just like, oh, I just feel like it. And that your partner thinks he won't be into it. It might be like a daily thing that you're gonna have to get used to. I also think that he might be underestimating how much he would like it. It is hard to know what a person will look like. And it's hard for you to know, let alone him. And I think men have like a weird hair. Men have a weird hair thing. They're like afraid of us having short hair and bangs. Like, they're so opposed to both in ways that are weird. Cause you're like. There are tons of sex symbols that have bangs and short hair and yet they're so afraid of it.

Yeah, actually this is an interesting topic. There's a connection between short hair and like sexual or something. Like it's sexy because it's edgy. And then there's something about long hair that's like. I mean, this is very like Madonna whore complex. It's like the long hair girl is this like virgin. I mean, this is. This is made up. Obviously, none of this is real. But I think that is what it's provoking is innocence. Like long hair equals innocence. I mean, this is gross, right? But I think that that's what is happening on maybe if I'm gonna be nice, a subconscious level. And so the sex symbols. Having short hair and bangs is fun. Cause that's like fun for a night, but not who you wanna like, be with. You wanna like. Again, I really think this is like a Madonna whore thing.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's giving men a lot of credit or. No, like that.

Giving them no credit.

No credit. That so much is going into this subconscious.

I don't think it's conscious. And it's not men, it's women too. It's societal like. I think that's a societal aura we have.

I agree.

That's my armchair opinion on that.

I also. This is a two word answer. I'm getting really tired. Hair grows, cut it short, and then in a few months it'll be longer and in a few months it'll be back to what it was.

Yeah, we're not giving good advice, cuz like we're tired. No, that's not why, but because this really could go either way.

Well, just to take the pressure off, basically the both of you that this isn't, like, permanently altering your appearance. It's a haircut. Which is great, because hair will grow back and change, and he'll be attracted.

To you because he loves you. It might take a sec to get used to, but it'll also. Everyone looks the same after a few days. Like, you just get used to it. It'll be fine either way. But I do think the thing to think about is how important is it to you? And if you in your heart are like, this is really important, then you do have to do it. Cause you also will resent him if you don't.

That's a good point. Which would be worse than him not liking it.

Exactly. And he sucks.

I don't know.

No, I'm just kidding. We love him.

I love me.

He's great.

We should do midnight sanct. It's just like, whatever.

No, we care.

We do.

We do.

We do.

How many times have you thought about him since.

Not that many. Like, maybe seven times. I'm not even kidding. There are all these cute moments where he looked into my eyes and we, like, locked eyes, and, like, when I was talking, he was, like, smiling.

Yeah. Why?

Okay. And it was just sweet. But you're right. I don't know him. That is sweet. He also has a name that works with mine. We both have one syllable. First name and last name.

This is the part.

It's hugely important.

This is the part that's a little.

Bit addictive of me looking at how our names will look next to each other.

Yeah.

After one group date.

But I'm excited. You're excited?

Good for the both of us. Because it slows me down and it amps you up. It's like an upper and a downer, depending on who takes it.

Oh, man. All right. Well, well. What an evening. Can't believe it. It's so fun. We really do hard things. Yeah, we do. We've been doing hard things since 2022.

And we will continue to do so.

Thanks for tuning in.

Thank you.

Thank you for following this chaotic adventure. And we'll be back next week. Bye.