I panicked last night. What'd you panic about?

The double date, the turnaround. Did you deliver? I think I have a few options for you.

Oh, this is incredible. Okay, so for the listener, this is BTS. We had a really fast turnover for last week's episode. Actually, we're recording this just a few days after we recorded last week's. So Liz only had a couple days to make magic happen.

I tried to redownload Hinge and I'm logged out. Oh, no. So honestly, The universe is probably like, no.

Yeah, because that's not the route I want.

Well, I was desperate. I obviously don't want it to be all dating apps, but last night it dawned on me. I was like, I got to put in some work.

Oh, this is great.

So it's not my favorite. It's not ideal? Yeah, it's not my ideal because I would typically put 10 to 14 hours into this, but I had less time. That's okay. I just did a lot of reach-outs. Okay. And some of them are no longer in LA.

How desperate did you get?

I did ask friends that already set me up or don't tend to set me up.

I did You did. I'm going to reach out just so you know. You did? Just so you know, yeah, it didn't pan out.

That would be the plot twist. I know. Is that you are the, Oh, my God. I hope I'm not... I don't do a terrible job, that that's what happens. But there was one matchmaking. Heather's boyfriend has set me up a few times, and he had talked about this guy, and I'd gotten a bad LinkedIn screenshot, but I wasn't consistent around it. And so I circled back, and now it's happening. I'm obviously going to make it conditional on him bringing a friend.

Oh, my God.

But he seems cute and great.

Okay, tell me a little bit about him.

He might be in finance. I don't know.

What's the age range?

Usually, the age range is in the 40s.

Okay, I like this.

An older gentleman. And usually, he sets me up. Honestly, they're solid. One of the guys that he set me up with lives in New York, and I would have done a turnaround. What do we call that? Coming back to a person. We should give that a name. A return. A great return. A return purchase? A return purchase.

I don't know.

I mean, return purchase is funny. Oh, my God. You would do that? I would do that for you. And he's great. But again, if this was a New York episode, no problem. I would have 10 people. La is a little tougher. And anyone who's dated in LA knows it's rough. I have that guy. I do have a person from a dating app who's 50. I know a little higher up than we want to go, but seems very cool and interesting, and he's cute.

And what's his job-ish? What's the- Industry?

Industry, yeah. Question. I know. This is not how I would want things to go. I take this very seriously.

Oh, wait.

I have a third one that I'm actually excited. Oh, wait. I have a fourth one, too. This is me with no time. Okay, first of all, he lives in Malibu, which signifies a certain level.

Oh, no, but also way too far away. Okay.

That's like New York.

It is. But remember what we're doing. This one is for you. This person we're picking is for- No, this is for you. Wait, what? No, the whole point is that you're picking a person for you, and then he's bringing a friend.

But to be TBH, I wouldn't be actively pursuing these people.

We need to pick The whole point is- Well, I think this is good because sometimes the people that I really want to go on dates with are toxic, and the ones that I'm like, whatever, they can be healthier.

So I think this is good.

Then this goes back to what I just said. So we're picking a person for you, and then you will tell them, Bring a single friend.

Yes. So that guy's an entrepreneur. Seems like we would honestly have a good night. And then there's this Danish guy. We have a few friends in common, someone I had a thing with, but I think he teaches them tennis, so it's not like they're friends. It's weird. He's a tennis coach/therapist. Wait. Hold on. Which feels super great for us because that's two of our core goals for the summer. Tennis. Well, it was last summer. This would accomplish a lot of things for us.

If we all go on a date together, we can't then take tennis from him if we don't like him.

It could be tennis. It could be a tennis date. Oh, my God. This would be my dream. It would be a doubles game. You and your date and me and my date. Me and my dad.

We don't know tennis yet.

He's a tennis coach, so he'll teach us. We'll get a free lesson.

Oh, boy. You're adding a lot of layers onto an already complex sitch. I think we need to keep this first day dinner. Normal. Okay. Easy. But if we want to pick him, then maybe we could move on to tennis if we like him.

But then it's like, if the date is bad, at least we learn tennis.

I don't think we're going to learn tennis in one day. Just FYI. I also think, how will it be a date if we are just playing tennis the whole time?

Because that's the ideal date. You're not focused on the date. You're focused on the third thing. That's my whole theory about dates. The worst dates are the one where you're like, I only have me to talk about. Where it's like, oh, we're playing tennis. We're engaging on a third thing that has nothing to do with either of us. And you're getting to know how they play, how they are in BD. Like, you're seeing...

Excuse me. No one in the whole world should judge how I am in the BED based on tennis that I don't know how to play. Absolutely not. We should post videos of you playing tennis. Yeah, I don't know how to play. That's the whole point of why I need to take a real lesson.

But maybe once you have I feel so stressed out by you today.

But for guys... My God.

But for guys in sports, any guy who doesn't know how to play sports, that's fine. But when he knows how to play well, you're like, all right. It gives you a sense of how they're going to be in the bedroom.

Oh, my God. Okay.

Is there anything that you, in the wild, seeing a man do that has nothing to do with intimacy or sex? Sure. When you see them do that, you're like, you're probably great.

In bed. Yeah. That's a great question. I guess to me, if someone is showing confidence in any way, I translate that over. I think, oh, they're probably confident because they know what they're doing. There's a lot of ways, I guess, to show that. I'm trying to think what's a good example.

Well, the way that a man walks or enters a room.

I mean more in the way they're treating other people. If they have to one up, I generally think that person's actually insecure. Right.

What about, have you seen the guys doing cooking videos online?

Like Ryan's video? No. The opposite. Oh, they're really good at it?

It's very titulating. They'll slap the salmon and then spit a little bit on the...

Oh, my God. We're so different.

Do you know what I'm talking about? Okay, we're going to...

I don't know what's happening today. I feel...

We're not synced.

We're not synced today. It's okay. That's going to happen. But listen, hold on. This is really important. I know what you mean, okay? Because I do think a man who knows how to cook is hot. But I also have the other thing where I think certain men who who think they're great at cooking or who are on these videos spitting on stuff and whatever, that is such a turn off. They are trying so hard. There's a lot of arrogance in the chef-wing world because I'm an Allison Roman gal. She sometimes will say things like, Oh, men who cook love this. And it's always pretentious and trying. So I'm on her page with that.

I think there's two kinds of men and food videos. There are these guys who are intentionally... I mean, it's... I'll show you one of them. It's on purpose? It's so sexual. It's almost like the food is just an excuse. You're watching and you're like, How is this legal? This shouldn't be... It's so overt. Then there's some videos of guys. He'll be like, Oh, I found this recipe. I'm going to make this sandwich. They're not trying, but they're so hot. Then all of the comments will be flattered with women being like, Oh, my God. The guy didn't do it on purpose, but the way he's eating the sandwich is like...

Oh my God. Liz, he definitely is doing it on purpose. No, no, no. He's just better at it than these other guys.

No, no, no. It's like a- Send me one right now.

Okay, I'll find it. I think I saved it. If you can. I want to live play it.

Okay, well, we should do a live reaction to you watching both and posting on social. Oh, maybe that's the social.

Yes. Okay.

Okay.

Okay, we'll do that. We'll do that.

Where were we? But I was watching... Okay, so you've told me so many times to watch Oceans 11. Oh, yeah. And so I decided to watch it last I don't know if it's like, I'm ovulating or like something in my cycle, but the amount of shots of Brad Pitt with like something in his mouth. Oh, no.

That's the whole every scene he's eating.

That's one of the- It's hot. It's like- He's so hot. He's so hot and he's eating a lot. I'm like, Is this how men feel like those scenes with women and whip cream or whatever, which I don't get? When it's so overt, it's over the top. This is not, obviously. It's just he's cool and he's not trying to be sexy. But there's... Yeah, I was feeling a lot of feelings.

What a movie. Did you like it?

I loved it. Isn't it good? It's really good. It holds up. I didn't finish it. Oh, God. But I'm almost... I know. I have really bad ADD. I don't even know what I started doing. But I'm halfway through and I really loved it. I We'll finish it. And I thought it was great. It's all our favorite guys. It's the hottest best guys. It's the hottest guys. Yeah, at their hottest time.

They're so good. Okay, two things. One, this leads me to... We talked about this on a fact check, but I'm going to ask you. This is Calleigh's first date question, and it's really good. Okay. She asked people... I got the exact phrasing, so I need to figure it out. We text a lot. Okay. She asked people, If you had to participate in an organized crime, what would be your crime of choice?

That feels like a trick question.

No, it will say a lot. It will. We should ask our guys this, but also you tell me.

Probably a chip stealing, conspiracy, stealing a bunch of snacks. I would I would be down with that.

So just like, robbing a convenience store?

I would want to rob the bad guy, like the big guys.

Okay. You want to rob Frito Le. Yes.

And redistribute to the masses.

Oh, God. So you're like Robin Hooding this?

No. Okay. Well, I'll keep a lot for myself, and it's a purely selfish endeavor. Okay. My dream when I was little was for my parents to own a convenience store because then I could have access to chips anytime I want. I thought about chips a lot as a kid. We've been through this. We've talked about this.

We've definitely talked about it. I don't think we've really gotten deep on it, though.

Do we need to?

I want to because it's really interesting. What was it specifically about chips? Or what was the moment that you first had a chip?

There's home videos of me as a literal toddler where my dad will be filming my sister on the monkey bars, and then he'll be like, Elizabeth. And then it's me. Somehow, I'm not even walking yet, but I've managed to get to a bag and I'm eating chips.

He's worried because you can't... You'll choke on him.

Choke or many reasons. Or maybe that's my second bag, and I'm two and a half. And even random video. I always have something in my... I'm always eating. I'm snacking. Snacking was a lifestyle, a It was a definite hobby and safe place for me. I mean, food and particularly snacks became also this- A coping mechanism. Totally. It was my way to go to my happy place.

And have control?

I think it was happiness and relief. And me and Kat, one of our first crimes, coming back to crimes, was going to the bodega, basically, our version, and lying to our parents about it and saying, We're just going to go to the park, and we went to buy chips. Kat was candy, and I was salty, and she was sweet, which was perfect because we never needed whatever the other- You don't want to share. Yeah. There was never any sharing. I mean, this is the sad part of I have memories of being in my room alone a lot and then having a bag of chips and then feeling good, but then feeling bad afterwards, too. It was this thing I loved, but that I also love too much, and I knew I loved it too much.

You knew that you had an attachment that was a problem.

Well, a compulsion that I couldn't stop when I wanted to stop. Okay.

But chips end. Yes.

And that would be heartbreaking. And then I would be like, Oh, I'll save some. So I have some left, and I wouldn't be able to do it. I mean, again, we've been through this, but I think it's one of the least talked about things that if you grew up with dysfunction, you have an eating disorder, most likely because it's so available to kids as a form of soothing. It's a way to take care of yourself. It's a thing you can do for yourself when there's not that much you can really do.

It's nourishment. Yes. If you're not getting it in other emotional places, I guess that makes sense. Totally.

Did you have an attachment to food or a certain food?

Cookies, I guess. Not really. I also have to credit my parents a bit. I think we talked about this in the last episode where you were saying, were you an ingredients family? Yeah. We were not. We had all the stuff. We had the fruit rollups and the Dunker. We had it. That's my memory of it anyway, is there wasn't- You just had Dunkaroos in your house at all times? Oh my God. You just had Dunkeroo's in your house at all times? Not at all times, but we had them, and I choked on a Dunkeroo. Oh my God. And it was really tremendous. Wait, why? My mom had to like, heimlich. It came out before she had to full heimlich.

Oh my God. So Oh, that's why you don't have an attachment. Oh, maybe. They were deemed. It was like...

It turned out to be physically dangerous, which sugar is. Wow.

Yeah. That's so scary. Was it a vanilla one or a chocolate one?

A chocolate. I'll never forget. I loved them so much.

In my head- Were you able to eat them afterwards?

Probably. I probably was. Yeah. I still love cookies. But in my head, I choked on a big chunk of the icing, but that doesn't really make sense.

It would because it fuses or it would be hard. The icing was hard. And so then it's just a I mean, it checks. Then it's- Yeah, but it was full choking.

It was full choking. You can't make noise. Oh, no. Monica. Yeah, it was scary. Every time I think about that, I am reminded that I need to learn the Heimlich and relearn CPR.

Do you want to learn it now? Yeah. Well, you know how to do it to yourself when you're alone, right? That's very important because as a single woman- I think you told me, but I forgot. Okay, so to anyone who's listening, if you are choking and you're alone somewhere, you grab a book, preferably like an atlas.

Sorry. No one in the continental United States, slash, in 2024, has an atlas.

Okay, you're right. Like a coffee table book. Like something that's just- Heavy. Heavy. Obviously, grab anything that you can or any book that you can. But the larger and the thicker, the better. And you put it right at your... I don't know what it makes us feel.

You're saying But do you mean right under the boob?

Under the first rib, basically. I'm like, I want to make sure I get it. Wait, can you Google it?

I think you mean sternum. Sternum, yes. I know, but nobody knows where that really is.

There must be a thing. The This bone? Give yourself a hemlock, just so we have a name. Slightly above your navel.

Okay. That's your belly button. Yeah.

Almost like in the middle of your stomach, basically. Okay. Slightly above your navel. You place the book there, and then you run in direction of the closest... I mean, a table would be the best. Even a wall will work, right? Because then you're basically you're creating a force- That pushes it out. And you do it as many times, right? Like, the first time might not work, but you just keep doing it. I know. Do you think about choking? I think about it. I do think all the time. Fuck. Supplements? I have to take so many supplements, and every time I do a prayer, I'm like, all right. Because I take a bunch of pills.

Yeah, me too. I never think about it with supplements. Oh, no. Now I'm going Sorry.

This says to use a fist.

Really?

Your own fist?

Yeah, and then put your hand on it.

I think the book is probably better because doing it yourself, you probably can't do it in the same force as you would running into a wall. You want to do a J, basically. I mean, if you're doing the Hamlet to someone, you put your fist and in the hand over your fist, and then you're positioning your fist right above the navel, and then you're doing a J, like going inside of them like a J. I see. You're just doing that as many times. I know.

I hate this I know. I really don't like it.

If it's a baby, you want to do the... Oh, my God. But if it's a baby, I mean, it's hard to explain, actually.

Well, you have to now. Okay, okay, okay. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, oh, my God.

If it's a baby, you want to... And this is under, I think, two or three. You want to take the baby and basically put their stomach on your forearm.

Turn them upside down.

And you have their cheeks in your hand, basically. And you are hitting the middle of their back in a chopping motion, but that's like, what's that? Angled. And you're going pretty hard, and that will create enough force.

Oh, my God. It's like, how many times can you knock on wood?

I haven't even knocked at all.

I just feel like, please.

Can I never have to do that? But now that you know how to do it, it would be great for you to be there because you could save them.

No, I don't want to do it.

You'd be great at it. You'd be great.

Oh my God, Liz.

Stop. I get really... Because I was a lifeguard. Something happens to my brain, which I'm like, I'm not saying I'm the best, but I wouldn't expect myself to be good stress, and particularly that high level stress. But for some reason, I become Mission Impossible. I'm so zeroed in.

Yeah, that adds up. That's like when you tried to save the woman. You do get in zones.

Yeah, in the zone. So you've had to do it? I've never had to do CPR, knock on wood. But I've had to intervene people drowning. And one time with Kat, with the two girls that were like, drowning each other.

Anyway, I don't know. I forget how we got on here. Heimlich, Bunkeroo. Double Date. Double Date. Double Date. But there was something in between. Your crime. Oh, my God. Yes, the crime. The crime. Yes. And then we'll get back to the double date. So my crime is in Ocean's Lovin'. That's what made me think about this, is I want to be part of a big heist where there's multiple people involved. I also really like an art heist. So I want Oceans 11 in the art world.

I would watch that movie. I would watch you. I mean, I would want a livestream camera on you at all times. You would be so good at it. You're very sneaky.

I wonder what part would I... Who would I be? And who would you be? In Oceans 11, we have these characters, and they play really different roles. Who do you think you'd be?

Man, I really wish I finished it. I'd probably be the manipulative one.

They're all manipulative. They're ripping off a casino. They just have different skills. Like, Matt Damon is like a lifter or whatever. Like, he can just quickly steal things from people. George is the master mind, right? Then Brad is the front man a little bit and logistics. I mean, they're both logistics. But then like, Don Chetel is the ammunition guy or whatever. Then there's the contortionist. That's the initial thought I was like, I'm small so I could fit into small places. But I think I'm probably better served in a face-to-face manipulation. I feel like you're Brad. Me too. I could see you being a contortionist, though, because you have to jump from this thing. Oh, actually, no, because when you jumped over that hole and then you didn't land. I would take risks.

I am physical. If there was a physical thing, I can get in the zone and get it done.

I think you could be the amazing Yen.

I feel like you are Brad because you could be in charge of everything.

I think I could run logistics. Yes.

And also, you're so smart. Oh my God. I was still like, no, you are. Even in the Dan video, so many people were like, How did Monica know? In the video, you can tell immediately that you knew Dan was lying. And it took me an extra couple of seconds. But your face, you just have a spidey sense. It doesn't even begin. You just know stuff, I feel like, before the stuff knows.

I agree with you. I think I have a very strong intuition, and I have a strong spidey sense about people. I think I can read people and machines, I guess.

But you already knew what to do, right? You were like, Oh, he's bullshitting. And then you had already made a plan in a matter of fractions of a second.

I'm best served where I can be overseeing and then diverting. Hey, that person feels not right, or he's on to us, so we got to pivot.

And then creating a new plan, and then everyone's going to do what you do, and it's going to work.

There's also getaway driver. That's not us, I don't think. You're a good driver. Well, definitely not you. No, God, no. I would be so bad as a getaway driver.

Remember when we couldn't remember where you parked and we went up and down the hills? Oh, my God.

Oh, yeah. Driving, no. Support for synced comes from Vegamore.

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Support for synced comes from Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth is amazing bedding products that will transform your sleep. It starts from beginning to end. You open it up, it's packaged so cutely. It has this little bag it comes in that's really cute, and it just feels very, very upscale. One thing that I really, really, really love about these sheets is they are temperature regulating. For anyone who sleeps hot or cold or anything, it is so important. And we, I mean, my body temp changes based on my cycle so much. Same. So much. Before these sheets, I'd feel really hot on mine or freezing. And this is so nice because it adjusts your body temp. So, okay, a good hack because Mother's Day is coming up and moms deserve the best. I've been thinking so Oh my gosh, about how we're just so hard on our moms. Oh my God.

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No one needs more sleep than a mom. So this mother's day, treat mom to the luxuries she deserves with cozy earth bedding and sleepwear and prioritize her self-care and sleep health. She deserves it. Don't forget to use our promo code synced, S-Y-N-C-E-D, at checkout for 35% off at cozyearth. Com. After placing your order, select podcast in the survey and select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. Anywho. Okay, so back to our double date. So we have a Danish tennis therapist, an entrepreneur.

An older entrepreneur.

Who is a LinkedIn guy, someone who's on LinkedIn. And then you had a fourth one, you said, you think?

Well, I have a fourth one that would be a twist, but it's a woman. Oh. And she would obviously have to bring a guy. And that could be fun. Oh, that?

That's interesting. Is she on one of your dating apps?

She's on my dating app, and I've for years,.

That's a twist. I like it, though.

I mean, we know it's going to be a better date. For you? With the guy, there's more chances of it being a bad time, or of you getting offended by something they're going to say, or they're not asking you questions, or whereas with a woman- Do you want to date this woman? Maybe. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm interested.

We have a lot to choose from. I know. We could do all four. And remind me about the Danish tennis guy. He was from an app as well.

He's from an app. We have all these friends in common. Oh, right. One of them being someone I was involved with. You know when you see the friends in common and it's like a green flag, you're like, Oh, these are- Cool people. Cool people. I don't know. He's Danish. I just feel like it's fun.

All right. I mean, but I also like the idea of the older entrepreneur. He's been recommended to you.

That's the LinkedIn guy. Oh. Do you want to do three?

Let's make one today. Let's start with one. I think we should start with the LinkedIn guy. Yeah. The friend of your friend. Okay, great. Oh, my God. Linkedin guy. Just because he has a profile.

He does have an Instagram, but it's private. He's not really on Instagram, which to me is, at this point, yes, the best. It's cool that he's on LinkedIn. Linkedin is where we get the most info about him. He's a LinkedIn influencer.

Let's move forward with LinkedIn.

Should we use LinkedIn as a dating app? When you think about it, that's all the information we need.

I like personality stuff. I don't like just knowing where someone works.

I know, but...

Okay. I mean, you can. You can use it.

I'm logged out. I can get into my LinkedIn.

How are we reach him? We're set up. Oh, the friend. The friend. Yeah, we're set up.

This is dead in the water.

We lost our platform. Okay, great. So TBD on date with LinkedIn guy and friend. Did we hit all our pins? You're in a chip scheme. I'm art heist.

Would you enjoy being a criminal? If it was available to you?

So Calleigh and I talked about this. She has a fantasy about this a little bit. She finds this very romantic, the idea of organized crime or being a part of something naughty. But I I don't generally think of it as exciting or cool or fun because I'm scared. I'm a scared person.

You don't love breaking the rules.

I don't. But that's why when it's an Ocean's Eleven, it's like a big friend event. And then I like it. If it's an ensemble cast, then I enjoy that. A solo, thievery, is not for me. It's just nothing's worth it.

The whole fun of it is to do it with your pals.

You'd chip steal by yourself, probably.

I shoplifted. Right. By yourself? Well, I did it with... It started with a friend, and then I did it on my own and got caught with Kat, and Kat didn't know. Was it Chips? It was. It would make sense. I wish. It was with Chips.

You didn't even steal what you wanted?

It was hair clips. Oh, right. So, very 1999 core.

Was it from Claire's?

It was, yes. Our version is Arden. Oh. I know. I still shop there now. Like, Dunkaroos. I went where I But I'm torn because it doesn't... It actually... The fact that I shoplifted doesn't make sense to me. I don't think I love breaking rules. Oh, my God. I had a boyfriend that shoplifted. Now I'm like, I did not think about that for a long time. It was like the very toxic. Before? In my 20s, I was in a very serious relationship with someone who would engage in a lot of rule-breaking in a way that was, again, made sense afterwards. Sociopath. Yes. It was an abusive relationship. And it made me very uncomfortable because even when I would ask him, Please don't, it really stresses me out because I literally got caught. He would still do it. It stressed me out so much. I think the shopliving thing is that I was so young. I would never do it now, ever. You would have to... Even if you paid me, I don't think I would take the risk. But there was something about that age where I think I just literally, I don't know. There was a big misunderstanding of the consequences.

But did it... You get a little high from it.

Oh my God, I loved it. It started just like, Oh, cool. I got away with it. And then I got addicted to that.

This is interesting because I don't think of you as a rule breaker or anything. But I think you like unknown situations. Yeah, that's true. Hence the double date. It doesn't not add up.

Look, if I were recruited If someone was like, We're going to do this. You're not going to have to worry about rent. If someone pitched me on it and that I like them, I would probably... Yeah, I think you- First, I'd be scared. And then if we did it once and it went well and probably just keep I wouldn't want people to get killed. I could probably justify in my mind if we were stealing from people who deserve to be- Big corporations.

Yes, who deserve to be- Even though I- You disagree. I disagree. You do. You do. Me and you are, we feel differently on this, but that's okay. What if you find out, though, that I have a big stake in Frito? You ruined my life.

Oh, I wouldn't like that.

No. You don't know who you're affecting. It could be someone else's Monica.

You're right. I mean...

Oh, hello there. We have a guest in the attic.

What are you guys doing?

We're recording. No, I'm not. We're talking about organized crime.

Oh, my gosh. One of my favorite topics.

Remember on a fact check, we talked about this, and I couldn't figure out the phrasing, Calleigh's first date question. Oh, right, right, right, right. The phrasing is, if you were a part of an organized crime, what would it be? Family or organization. Not necessarily. So you went mob. Yeah, of course. But I went art heist. Liz is in a big chips. She's stealing from Frito Le. I think we have to close the... Is the door closed? Oh, maybe it's cracked. It never closes now.

Oh, man, this place is really cool. The Empire is crumbling.

No, it's not.

It's the late days of Rome.

Maybe somebody else's organized crime is to take us down.

A lot of people would be incentivized.

Sure. Anyway, she's taking down Frito Le.

I got excited that you were saying she had just co-opted the plot of chips. Oh, sorry. I would have felt very flattered by that. Yeah. But now we're just talking regular old potato chips.

Sorry. But don't be careful. They're a big part of her life.

Is that your very favorite food group?

Yes. That was how I got immediate relief and happiness and connection.

Regulation.

Yeah.

Okay. I feel like I had that via TV. But did you have full access to TV all the time? No.

And even the fact that you had access to Dunkaroos.

Is Dunkaroos Dunkin' Donuts?

No, it's the snack food. It had a little bit of icing and then these small cookies.

In the shape of dinosaurs.

They're called Dunkaroos? Yes. And you were encouraged to dunk them in milk? Is that the reason?

No, in the icing.

In the icing. Okay.

Sorry, the icing was separate. I thought it was already on.

No, you would dip it, and it was called a snack, but it was really just a dessert. But I have a theory that the kids who weren't allowed to have sweets in the house or chips or Dunkaroos, it It became this contraband. It became the drug of choice because it was like, I can't. Forbidden fruit. I can have it. Maybe that's why you don't think it's like, if you have a bag of chips in front of you, you can think about something else. I can't because I'm like, Oh, my God, there are chips.

I relate deeply to that because we would be with my mom at my house for two weeks straight. We had a gallon of milk, and then you got a box of cereal for those two weeks. You had to make it last. No soda, no chips, no cookies. We'd go to my father's house, who was a bachelor, and it was just stocked full of every soda, every chip. We were allowed to order pizza. So my brother and I were people exiting the desert after months and months, and we learned to eat that way. Oh, shit.

It's a scarcity mentality.

Devour. And he and I both have this capacity to overindulge in a way that I think has to have something to do with that. Or we go to my grandparents and they have the same loot.

Wow. And you have no scarcity mentality. With- She's abundant.

Food, I don't really. Also because I, as we've talked about so many I'm extremely wasteful. So if I don't finish something, I feel in my head, I can buy this again tomorrow. I don't have to eat this right now because I can have it again tomorrow if I want, unless I'm in another state. So when I'm in New York, I eat so much more than I do when I'm home because it is scarcity mentality. I can only have this restaurant when I'm in New York. It's so rare, so I have to eat all the pasta.

You have a cute scarcity, and we have chronic scarcity.

Right. I think I have practical scarcity mentality. It's like it actually is- Is true.

Yeah. You're not going to come back. Exactly. Because at dinner in New York, you were going to my pace, and I was like, Oh, my God, this is so exciting. We were sharing fries and eating cake, and You got all the desserts, and I was like, Oh, my God. I don't feel like I'm eating the entire thing and I got to slow down.

I think this is dysmorphic. You order small... You ordered like, Takedos.

I eat quick and I eat like it's about to fall off the table.

As someone who's eating with you a I've never felt that ever.

That's funny.

I feel that. I wonder why you feel that. It must come from old days.

I'm a little self-conscious when we're sharing things because you're going to take one bite and then talk for four hours. Then I'm like, this is going to be embarrassing where I'm going to over eat and then she's going to notice.

Also, maybe I wonder if we share this, which is like, Monica, if you're sharing any given dish with somebody, it doesn't enact this panic, does it? If you're sharing, if there's eight pieces of pizza, in fact, that's a bad example because clearly both people get four. It's when something's loosey-goosy or you're taking scoops out of something or it's artichoke dip. When you're sharing, do you start thinking like, Oh, fuck, I got to get my share?

I generally don't have that. Again, because I know if I didn't get enough, I can say, Can we get one more? Mom. I would have choked it. Can we get one more? And I pay normally in these cases, so I feel fine about that. But for the most part, I don't have that. My brother, actually, with him, I have it.

So I was going to suggest that. So your sibling was so much younger than you. You were so dominant. My brother was five years older. So it was like someone shot a starter pistol and it was like, go. And he could out-consume me, and I wasn't going to get my share, and it was unjust. But I do want to enter yet another thing into this debate, which is my children, who if any two people have grown up in abundance, it's them. There is always multiples of anything they would ever want. But Delta has it. If Lincoln goes and grabs a fry off her plate, she's like, You have to ask me. She panics.

Is that more a respect thing, though?

We talk about it quite a lot, and she shares her feelings, which she's quite articulate at doing. And no, she has this genetic scarcity thing. So it's interesting.

Me and my sister is the same thing. I'm Delta, and my sister is Lincoln.

All of you are talking about birth order as well.

Sure, right? Younger.

And that, I think, has something to do with it. But also Delta is not scarcity mentality at all when it comes to money or if she shares shit all the time. She's always giving off her little Squishy. She's not hoarding of the things she cares about. So maybe it's specifically food?

Yeah, I was going to say I don't think those things are mutually exclusive because I would think of myself as quite generous and sharing as well. But food, Monica, what you were saying, I'll order an artichoke dip, and then if I need another one, I'll order that. That's very logical. Clearly, I I have to do that, too. Weirdly, here's how I have to do that. I actually have to do that beforehand. So if I'm going to go through drive-through and I want French fries, and I ask everyone in the car what they want, and no one wants fries, I say, if you guys are going to start asking for my fries, I'd rather just buy you fries. No, we're not going to want them. I know they're going to. I preemptively order two fries. If I even had the inkling that someone was going to eat more than half of the spinach artichoke dip, I'd have to order two from the get-go because I can't even be at ease while it's happening.

I did that literally on Friday, I wanted fries. I was at this group dinner, and I ordered two because I was like, I don't want. Then they didn't even eat their fries. Again, I was like, I don't understand how you don't... Their fries in front of you don't eat them. So I ended up eating both.

How about this? I'm such a routine person. In the morning, I brew my coffee. It sits with a lid on it while I meditate. Then I'm allowed to start drinking it as I start journaling. I'm only allowed that one cup of coffee in that sitting. Occasionally, Kristen will walk by and she'll smell the coffee and she'll go, Oh, can I have a sip? I go, Sure.

Oh, my God, yes.

You guys- I know.

I know. No, I believe.

It is insufferably painful. What? Because she takes a sip and I'm like, The whole thing's fucked up now. It's already not enough. I'm already on a diet for the coffee, and now it's less than even the...

It's painful. Oh, my God. But you hear, right? I know you do.

I'm telling it knowing it's ridiculous.

I know. It's because, and this is a cross-abort of everything we're talking, it's a stranglehold on life. It's like, oh, my God, if this goes even slightly off-kilter, the whole thing's fucked up. That's not reality. Things go off-kilter all the time. Everything's fine.

That is an objective truth.

But I'm saying you got to practice that.

Well, surely- Like, loosening the grip a little bit. I hope I've gotten better. But again, if you grow up in a lot of really unexpected turns are happening all the time and your baseline is expecting the shoe to drop and for some crazy step backwards to happen, you start getting really controlling about these little things, and you get very superstitious. Athletes are all this way. Any endeavor where there's a high probability of failure, I think you get increasingly more controlling and superstitious.

I get where it comes from, and I have compassion for that, tons. But also now it's just about- Transcending all that? Yeah, that's over.

I don't desire to have my morning ruined by giving someone one sip of my coffee. I see the absurdity, and it's not comfortable. I'm not proud of this behavior, but that's what happens.

I don't think Kristen does this, but certain people do trigger these very specific emotions. And so, like I said, my brother will trigger something that no one else on Earth will trigger. And he does that. When we're at a dinner and he's just eating off the shared thing and not paying attention at all to the amount everyone else is getting, I have my own story about him. He's He's not paying attention. He's not conscientious. Exactly, which he is. But I have this idea about him from being a child. A baby. Yeah. That is not fair to him, but that I project in all of our circumstances and all of our interactions. I have that with some other people in my life as well. It's not really how I feel blanketly, but certain people will just shine a light. Yeah.

And food is so primitive. That's the part that feels maybe uncontrollable or reveals the most primitive parts of us. I mean, with sex, it's the number one. It's a need. It's more important than sex, right? You'll die out of food before you die from not having sex. Speak for yourself.

It's a funny joke, Monica. It's fine.

You know what I learned this week? Of all of the senses It's like, touch is the only one that is necessary for survival. You won't die if you lose your sight, or obviously, it can create obstacles. But touch, you will die. It's the most essential.

How did this conversation start? It was the Calleigh question. Yeah.

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This is the perfect place to ask because it feels very gendered. Murder.

Very gendered, yeah.

When you think of these crimes that you might commit, does the thought of killing a very, very bad person, is it undesirable, neutral, or desirable?

How bad are they? What have they done?

Like Hitler, Stalin, Putin. Right now, when you present me with the notion, like when you say to me, Dax, we've to change this. You can go into a eight by eight room with Vladimir Putin. You have an hour and nothing will be held against you. I'm very excited about that proposition. I would love to kill that man and get him the fuck away from all the humans that he's destroying. I actually desire that. In a way I would desire any other pleasurable thing. And I'm wondering if you guys have that gear.

I mean, there are people I wish were no longer living. Do I want to be the person doing it? I have no desire for that. The act of killing is undesirable. What if it's you hit a switch-It's undesirable.

It's like a comically big cartoon Anvil falls on his head and you just had to hit the switch?

I just know it does not matter how bad a person is. If I know I'm responsible for anyone's death on this Earth, that would be hard for me.

In my mind, it's so clearly framed. I'd be responsible for saving literally a There's a very few acts you could do in life where you'd be saving a million people.

I know. I want that. I want somebody else to do it.

I want to be able to kill. Wow. Even if you think about the person you hate the most in the whole entire world?

I don't hate very many people.

Or what if it was my rapist or someone had done harm to- Delta. Delta. What if a man had heard Delta? Because that, to me, triggers that bear mom.

Well, if I saw it, I would kill them. If I could stop a thing- With a murder. With a murder, if I was walking in on that and I could kill the person, yes, I would. But it's after the fact because I just really just rather them just go to jail for life.

I remember having an audition for The Last Airbender, one of these movies I hadn't read any of the books. I didn't understand any of it. In the vernacular was so sci-fi. I didn't know what I was saying. I could not relate. But it was a moment where I had caught the person and I was basically going to torture them. And none of it made sense. I couldn't figure out how to do this. And then all of a sudden I just had the idea, and this was before Osama bin Laden had been killed, I was like, what would my disposition be if I was in a room with Osama bin Laden tied to a chair? And I realized quickly it would be elation. I would enjoy so much that I have you. And then I was like, oh, I understand how to do this. But anyways, in thinking of that, I was really recognizing that there are certain people that it'd be beyond just doing a service. I'd actually be quite excited to exact justice on them.

Me too. I mean, I also like revenge.

Jonan Nolan was here, and he was saying, one of the most classic archetypal American stories we love is revenge. That's why he wrote Momento. It's a bad side of us.

It also is weird coming from you because I feel like the reason I'm not like that is because of being close to you. Over time, understanding people in a different way and that everyone has a reason they are the way they are. I put a lot less blame on people in general. So I don't have this sense of like, they're innately bad or I should enact revenge on this. I'm like, I'm lucky that I'm not I just feel more gratitude now, and it's definitely from knowing you.

I'm happy to hear that. And now I'm mad at you. And by the way, no, no, no, no, We're not trying to rehabilitate them, or we're not removing them just for the safety of other people. But there's this third category, which is like, we're going to make them suffer because they made us suffer. I actually disagree with that. I agree with you. There's this huge spectrum of personality types or people types on planned earth. Yet 97% of them, I'm not judgmental of, and I'm not seeking justice or revenge. But I definitely believe that there is a set of people whose true objective is to cause as much suffering in pain and annihilation. And the protector in me goes like, that person has to be removed.

I am with you on I want that person removed. But would I get personal pleasure? No. And would I even get... Oh, God, this is going to sound so bad. This is going to be good. And people are probably going to be mad at me for this. But it's the truth. When Osama bin Laden, when he was killed, I was relieved.

They couldn't plot anymore.

Exactly. Exactly. And I was really glad that Obama carried that out. But I was on a plane. We landed and they announced it. Wow. It was cheering. Yeah. That's not my reaction to that.

It felt like a Colosseum style. A bit.

I know. Like, evil. But I don't believe in evil deeply. So it's hard for me to just rejoice. I just will never rejoice over someone's death, even if I hate them. That's a good quality. Maybe now that I'm thinking about it, there's a sense when everyone is in that mode, everyone's cheering over someone's demise, there's always a sense of, what if that was me or that could be me? And of course it can. I'm not going to have Osama bin Laden in the world.

You have so much empathy. You would identify with Osama bin Laden.

You're very much onto something. It scares me. Because implicit in the cheering was he was other. It would have been more complicated. I don't think people, when Timothy McVeigh was killed, they didn't cheer. They should have. So if I were you and I were brown in this country, I'd go, That's a little adjacent to them getting into a crowd mentality and going, You know what?

All these brown people mean. Exactly. At any moment, could everyone decide to turn on me.

Right. Even when they killed Gaddafi, there was criticism, just the photos that were released of him, bloody. If it had been a white man, they wouldn't have published these kinds of accounts. There's a dehumanizing quality to it. And again, cheering.

I understand the impulse.

Well, in a way, we're doing what they did to us. Exactly.

We're not being the bigger person. There's a hypocrisy as well.

They cheered death, and now we're cheering.

Yeah, that's a really good point.

I think I was lucky in this way. I was in Blicer Street Pizza, whatever that is, seventh in Blicer Street or something.

I passed it the other day.

All of a sudden, we heard cheering from a bar next door. And so my first thought was like, Oh, someone just won the Stanley Cup, or some football game or some soccer. Someone won something. Yeah. That's appropriate time to cheer. Then it started spreading. And it started spreading to such a degree that we left Blicer Street to go look at the TV. From where I was standing, I don't know, 30 blocks from the attack. I loved it. It felt like for New Yorkers, it was this very cathartic release of, oh, good, that person did pay for the pain they caused all of us. And I guess I didn't even let myself imagine it was happening around the country. Of course, it was now that you say it or on an airplane. But for me, I was in New York. I was happy for those people. It was this huge release they had been carrying. This person was still out there.

What you just said is interesting, right? There were people that cheered when the towers went down, and that's just their circumstance. A lot of people are born into some crazy circumstances that lead them to this place where they're excited about a takedown of us. And I don't know, where were you when Osama bin Laden was killed?

In Denmark? 2011. No. So I was in London.

I don't really recall- You weren't in the United States?

Yeah. Not yet. Everyone was talking about it there. But maybe I feel like I was on a Greyhound bus on my way to... I was in transit, and I remember seeing there were celebrations outside the White House or something, right? And then the situation photo. But there was no cheering. I think that was very American. People were showing USA, USA outside the White House. I feel like I remember that and thinking that was weird. Also, you didn't do... I don't know. It's like a sports match.

Yes, it became sports.

It was us against them.

Anyway. Okay, I think we should do some questions. Yeah. Okay, this is Relevant with our guest. How do I adapt to my newly sober bestie who not only changed the vibes, but also triggers me? This is from Emily. Hi, Liz and Monica, long-time listener, first-time caller. I'm writing for help with an evolving relationship. I have a kindred spirit friendship that is going on 10 years now. She's a fellow Libra and someone who I met and instantly connected with deeply. We were like sisters, and our convos were always so intense and mostly healing. Over the past four years, she's gone through some trauma on her side and as a result has decided to stop drinking. She's the first to admit she had no problem with the hooch, but thought she'd give it up to see if that helped her overall mood, marriage, and mental state. I'm proud of her for doing this, but also have to admit our hangouts have changed. Having wine and gabbing was a big part of our friendship, but not the center of it. We were always going on adventures, traveling and seeing concerts, but now everything feels a bit more muted.

She shares less, leaves early, and in some ways, seems to act a bit superior for not drinking. I feel triggered by this and a bit judged. I have a great casual relationship with drinking, so I can't envision why someone would give it up if they didn't need to. A Sunday fun day is a blast, but I also have sober family members, so I should be cool with this. That said, why am I so sad that I may never have another cocktail with her again? Am I rude in feeling it's performative? I know I should be supportive, but things have changed, and I feel sad about it. I miss her old hangs. Am I a total dick? No, you're not a total dick. No. It's hard when major pieces of a friendship shift. I've thought about this.

Me, too.

Although we drank and then you stopped. Yeah. Do you think it changed our hangs?

It didn't change it for me, but I was like, Is she still going to want to hang out as much? This might be wrong, but I felt like maybe I didn't get invited as much. If you guys were going out more in group, not one-on-one, but I was like, Oh, they're getting drinks, and so then they're probably not going to invite me. I think you get invited maybe less. My gut reaction to that is maybe she wasn't that interested. It seems like you really liked her when she was drinking, and now you might just not get along. She might not be as interesting as you thought she was. Because if I'm drinking or not drinking, it didn't change my relationships. It surprised me, actually. I thought I would be having less fun, but I wasn't.

But you stay out. Even for you, don't you think it changed? You leave when you're ready to leave, which is at a normal time, earlier than people who are drinking.

For sure. You're getting further and further adrift in the experience the people are having. But it took me 10 years to do what when you met me. I did. Well, maybe not 10 years, maybe six or seven years, I felt this obligation to hang as late as I always did and prove that I hadn't become lame or this or that. It was Andrew Panay, who I became friends with him. Andrew has never drank in his life. So observing how he's like, The bar is a terrible hang after 9:00 PM. I don't want to be there. Everyone's repeating themselves and they're really effusive and they don't even mean it the next day. And to see the clarity by which he was evaluating the situation without any of the baggage, I was like, oh, yeah, that's the anatomic truth of this situation. I no longer need to feel like I've become a stick in the mud because it's not enjoyable to me. The thing I hear most in there, and I hope she doesn't feel attacked by this, is I feel judged, she's superior. Those are your issues. So if your friend stopped eating vegetables, and every time you were out, you were eating vegetables and she wasn't, you would never feel judged by it.

You would never feel like she thought she was superior because you know your truth is vegetables are nothing to feel ashamed of. So to me, it's a little bit telling that you would so easily feel judged or that someone could feel superior. It It makes me have a little suspicion that you yourself aren't dead certain on your conviction about it.

That makes sense to me, but it can feel odd to be drinking when somebody else is not It does feel like there are more eyes on you. I've noticed that, not with you, but if I'm around people who are sober or not drinking and others are, I'm hyper aware of their cloaking.

Nobody's really even thinking about your drinking unless they themselves have some really complicated situation with it, and they have recently quit, and they're struggling with it. But I have no idea what glass of wine you're on. I never think in my head ever, oh, she's drinking or she's not drinking. I don't think about it at all, but I think it's quite easy to feel or assume other people are thinking that. It's just really presuming to know a lot about what the other person is thinking. And if you guys are best friends 10 years, you should be in a place that you could say, I'm feeling really judged or that you feel superior, and you can have this talk. My hunch is she's going to go, No, I'm just not on that elevated dopamine level with you, so I'm not as effusive, but nothing's going on.

I do think that there's something going on. Maybe it's extremely online. There is this superiority with- Shaming. I became sober, and there's something like pushing it on you.

Calleigh sober. There's like a new face.

You can totally not drink, and that's awesome. It's great that it's had all these amazing effects in your life. You're not saying you should do it, too, but the subtext is that you're better, and what you're doing or you're choosing to do is better than other people. Maybe there's an air of that going on. Maybe she's taking it in from the culture, but it's not specific to that friendship. I mean, I think it's an interesting question. It is. Should people be encouraging other people to be sober? No.

Well, I don't think this person is, by the way. No, no, no. But just now we're on an interesting tangent.

And again, we are filling in some blanks. If someone's posting, day 39 of sober, my skin's never looked better. You are interpreting that as them telling you you should do it. But unless they're saying everyone should do this or I don't know why people do this, you are just inferring a lot. So it gets really tricky. I think we're really susceptible to feeling judged and feeling less than. But I think that's because we're all judging ourselves quite harshly, and we're really hard on ourselves.

But also, just getting back to her feelings, I think it's totally, totally normal to be sad when a friendship dynamic changes. Oh, yeah. It's extremely disturbing. It's scary. It's scary. It shakes the foundation of your life. It's hard. I really sympathize with that. And maybe talk to her and it gets resolved and it's fine. But if you are feeling uncomfortable drinking around her, maybe that isn't the person you go to drinks with when they can't drink.

You don't invite your friend to your bowling league if they don't bowl.

Exactly. And do other stuff that is still fulfilling to both of you where you're not going to get triggered in this way.

I've told you the story when we were all at Aaron's house and they ran up to get beer. We were probably 23 or four out in the middle of nowhere. And then two of the dudes came back on foot and they're like, We got pulled over Aaron and got arrested for DUI. And my truth in that moment was, Oh, no. Aaron's going to quit drinking. Yeah. This This is what happens. You get a DUI and you quit drinking. He called from the police station so we could pick him up, and I'm like, You okay? Yeah. Pause. I go, Are you going to quit drinking? He goes, Fuck, no. I was like, Oh, my God. Thank God. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to come pick you up. That's the truth of where I was at, which is like, this is our thing. This is a big part of our foundation. Now, with all that said, I was sober, or I had not drank for 15 years while he still did. We still talked and hung out and loved each other. Definitely, we couldn't go down these roads we had in the past. Then whatever. Now he's sober, so who knows?

But I remember having a full panic about his DUI, selfishly just that he was not going to drink anymore.

I thought like, okay, if I decide to stop drinking, how is that going to affect some of the relationships in my life that involve a lot of drinking? It's real. It is real, and it will affect. Yes. That's just the truth. I think it's okay to be sad and you're not a dick. It sucks when things change and friendships morph all the time. It's hard. Right. Okay, let's do one more.

I like this format.

Really good questions. Really.

Hey, all. Really great question.

That's a Yeah.

Oh.

Is it a sexy one?

No. It's funny. Okay. Do I tell my partner that I don't like his new laugh? This is from- New laugh? This is from Katie. Hi, Liz and Monica. For reading. Your show is so special and helps me feel connected to a long distance bestie. We both listen and then share our thoughts regularly. Oh, that's so sweet. Anyway, I'm happily partnered with my boyfriend of four years. We just bought a house together, and I feel truly grateful to know and to be able to love him. He's incredibly smart, thoughtful, funny, and attractive. However, I've noticed in the last few months that his laugh has changed and that it sounds exactly like his best friend's laugh. They spend time each week on the phone while playing video games, et cetera, and I think he's unknowingly started to parrot take on this new characteristic more and more over time. I don't like the laugh, maybe because it sounds less genuine or maybe because it's a very distinctive sound and reminds me of his friend. Do I tell him? How do I bring it up without hurting his feelings or being rude about his friend? Xoxo. I appreciate any advice you can offer.

Do you know, Monica, one in 20 of the comments that I read on our feed are about people going, At what point did Monica and Dax develop the same laugh? No way. I read it today. Yeah. People are like, When did their laugh become the same laugh?

That's weird. I don't notice that at all.

I don't either, but I can't imagine one in 20 people are lying.

I think I have different laughs. Remember when we had Jimmy He knew all yours. And he said, I have multiple laughs and he could do them? Oh, wow.

Your laughs have multitudes.

My laugh often has changed over the years with, again, who I'm hanging out with the most. I'll notice it, and I think it's so cute. It is. It's beautiful. It's so cute that you I start laughing like- You're sharing a language.

Yeah.

I know, but I'm going to take... Okay, I could definitely see myself being rubbed really the wrong way by this situation. One, if it's in a new lap that I find actually just sounds annoying, that's going to be hard for me. But also I would feel what you're saying, Dax. You're just becoming another person so easy or taking on this other person's trait. It's scary. It is a little scary and it's a little unattractive when someone is so malleable. And it's like, who are you, though? If your laugh can change just from being around that person or if you... Because this happens a lot, too, where you're around someone a lot and you start taking on each other's words and phrases. You get the famlicon going. Famalec. Yes, that's Wendy's word. But it's sweet if you're in it, but it is not sweet if you're on the outside of it. Well, for one, you might feel left out. That could be a piece of it.

I think it speaks to your insecurity of going like, Oh, this person is forming a special thing with somebody. They're evolving to match them. They're not evolving to match me.

To match me, yeah.

Well, would you agree with this? The perfect human that doesn't exist, but the totally self-actualized, very self-confident, their own self-esteem. A laugh is a laugh. I don't know that you can say one's annoying, one's not.

No, some are annoying sounding.

Listen, some people have objectively insane laughs, but when you love them, you actually love it more. That's true. I don't think you could ever say objectively a laugh is good or bad.

No, that's right.

It's like, what's attached to it? And I think for you, Monica, that makes so much sense. I could definitely see how you... That that would be a reaction because it's scary that this person...

Who you think That's the perfect way to say it. Well, I think you have baggage around when is the shoe going to drop, an unstable environment. I do, too. Not in my family home.

Yes, you desire great security.

I had a lot of when When am I going to get dropped? When am I going to get excluded? When am I going to... And at any moment it can happen. And so I also walk through the world with that same thinking. And so I need safety. I need security. I need to know this is the person. If all of a sudden they start laughing weird and saying weird stuff, it makes me feel unstable.

A thousand %. And I'm totally sympathetic to it and compassionate. I just think it's really fun. I love hearing the questions, and I love talking about them because when they're not your issue, Yeah. To me, they feel very clear. It reminds me, it's like, all my issues with other people are my issues. They're my insecurities. Really, people's behavior is so neutral.

There's a whole episode of Friends About It. Chandler's laugh, right? That he has a work laugh, and then it really bothers her. And then it's a whole episode. And the subtext in that episode is like, she feels like he's a different person. Exactly. That he's different than what he presents to her. He's laughing at jokes that she doesn't think are funny.

Or that he doesn't normally or wouldn't.

And it's early in their relationship, and she has to adjust to the work him. Basically, it's not about the laugh. It's about his identity, right? Yeah. He's a little bit different when he's around work people than he is with her. And so she has to take that in and accept it.

Well, you know an extreme example of it that I experienced a couple of times, which is really illuminating, is I've had Black friends who code switched in front of me. And I had this moment where I was like, oh, my God, do I know the real person? Are they putting on this facade for me? And that's the real them. And I don't actually have access to the real them. What it really did is just flare up all this insecurity in me that because I'm not black, I won't really know the real them, or I won't share the thing they share. I thought the thing we had was very real and legit. Then, of course, realizing that's all my fear that maybe this person isn't going to like me in a way. I hope they would. Have you had that?

I have two friends that aren't white, and I was friends with both of them separately. And now we've been hanging out, the three of us, and I'm Oh, have I just not really... And then if I'm not there, how is it?

And you feel guilt somehow? Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Like, oh, my God, this person thinks I won't like them if they're not this.

Or I don't know if it's as conscious as that. I think it's more There's something when you're around someone who has the same background as you, it's not, I'm going to code switch or I'm going to switch into this mode. It's just the pheromones are creating.

And the truth is, having not seen the Friends episode, but I'm sure Monica, she would be inclined to go, The work laugh is phony.

Yes, that's what happens.

Or conversely, even more scary, the me laugh is phony, and that's the real laugh. But of course, people are just multifaceted. All of them are genuine and real.

I had dinner with Elizabeth and Andy last night, and Elizabeth had listened to our episode with Patrick, the diagnosed sociopath, and she said that she appreciated that I was during it. I was like, oh, God, am I a sociopath? Because I do that. I wear masks, again, not consciously, but my relationship with every single person is different. So I'm going to be slightly different in every situation. I think that's normal. Then she said, Andy is not like that at all because she was saying she's like that. But then Andy's just who he is- No matter where he's at. No matter what.

This makes me think of something for the first time. So we had all this growing stress of me joining your Connections Group.

Yeah. There were some hurdles. I heard about it.

What I never considered, and I don't know if you have is like... So you had a lot of anxiety about it, understandably, and we talked about all that. That's all been hashed out. But what might be interesting is I wonder if there was any voice in your head that was like, Oh, boy, he's going to observe me in this other context where I'm a different person. It was all focused on me, mostly. But I wonder if any of it was also you. I've got to now bridge who I am with him and who I am with my childhood friends. Maybe. I have some of that with you. If Aaron, the three of us are together, I am dialing back for sure some stuff that I know would offend you or make you feel scared.

I would have heard.

Not only am I altering it, but I also have two degrees of anxiety that Aaron won't know that that's something that shouldn't be said. I'm dealing with a totally different culture in Detroit. And so, yeah, when I match these together, I have a little anxiety.

So many pence. But I would hope you wouldn't say something that would offend me, not just because I was there. My hope is that me being in your life is just going to make you less likely to do that. Is totally not real?

I can see that that would be your desire, but also you and I disagree on something. I just saw Andrew Schultz's comedy. It's spectacular. It's so racist, but there's something about his intention and his awareness of all of it. In his actual friendship group and who he's touring with, he's walking the walk. He enjoys the stereotypes of the different neighborhoods he grew up in. All of his friends mutually agree to it and enjoy it together. I enjoy You don't enjoy it. I don't feel like a racist because I laugh at that. But I know that you and I are never going to watch Andrew Schultz, and you're never going to laugh the way I do at him. It's just scary. And I understand the stakes are higher for you, and it's a privilege that I can consume it without that. But to me, there's a bunch of funny stuff that still has to do with our racial differences, our sex differences, all these things. That's still very confusing to me. But I know that's never going to be something you're going to enjoy or laugh at. And so, of course, I'm not going to want Aaron to bring in some bit of comedy we both enjoy that you're not going to enjoy.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Your preference would be that I don't even think Andrew Schultz is funny.

Or that you can see it a bit differently when you have someone in your life... I mean, by the way, I don't know anything about Andrew Schultz. Maybe I would find it super funny. I don't know. But in general, because as we said earlier, I feel that my perspective on life is different based on our for proximity. And I would hope that it would be reciprocated. Reciprocated? Reciprocated, yeah.

And it very much has.

In your life, the thing I'm bringing to the table is a race thing.

Yeah, and it has changed me dramatically. And there's a ton of things I've altered my behavior and I would not feel good doing anymore. But just to specifically talk about Andrew Schultz, because I think it's relevant. He's performing in Taiwan to 8,000 Taiwanese. And he is talking about if he get invaded by China, that we're going to have to come help. And he says to them, Guys, we'll be happy to help. I'm a little nervous about us knowing who's who. The level of laughter among the Taiwanese is enormous. So I'm not seeing a victim there. Now, if he was telling that joke to all white Americans saying, We're going to have to go to Taiwan to bail them out of China, how are we going to know the difference? The fact that he brings it right to their doorstep, they like it a lot. They're dying laughing. And he's doing a ton of stereotype jokes directly to them, and they enjoy it, as I enjoy watching Barbie and getting made fun of for being a man. I recognize that I'm in a position of power where it's easier for me to laugh at myself. But the point is that Andrew goes to all these people and does it directly to their face, and they love it, and they come by.

Laughing at yourself is different than laughing at others.

But he's not Taiwanese, but he can still make an observation for them that they themselves find very funny.

That's fine. That doesn't bother... Yes, it would bother me if he was in a room full of white people making that joke. That's, to me, racist.

I'm only pointing out that you have a relationship with it that I respect and I honor. And then someone else that's Indian is going to have a totally different level of what they think is offensive or that they might enjoy. And so I don't think there's a baseline of how everyone is taking it. By the way, all these Taiwanese people, they're the majority. He's talking to them in their country. They're the majority. They aren't the oppressed.

That's what I'm saying, though. I'm agreeing with you that his joke there is fine. His joke, if he did that in America with a bunch of white people, if he made that same joke, like you said, is not fine.

But if most of his audience is white Americans, then he is making the joke. The physical audience is Taiwanese people, but the audience for the special is Americans, right?

Well, I don't know. I mean, clearly, he's huge in Taiwan. He tours the world, and he's huge everywhere. He sells out 15,000 seat theaters around here. In The thing is, when he came to the forum and he's in Hollywood, he blasts Hollywood. He's lined it all up, all the things we do that are silly, that are worth making fun of. And he just blasts us. And everyone in the audience that's from Hollywood is laughing at themselves. Elves, which is very cathartic and fun. And then he goes over to Boston, he calls them fucking racist, and he lets them have it about their stereotype. And the people there genuinely are getting a lot of joy out of it. Now, all these things just on paper, you're not allowed to do. And by the way, there are a ton of comedians trying to do the same thing, and they suck, and it's not working. It's very fascinating. They're doing similar material, but there's something about the intention. There's something about being in on it with them, living amongst. There's just so much nuance in it. It's interesting. If you were Taiwanese and we were best friends and that stuff made you uncomfortable, I would respect that.

But yet then I'm looking at this group of people who clearly loves it and bought tickets to him and is going to buy tickets to him over and over again. I can't say to them, I'm wrong for loving being made fun of by him. I just I think it's very complicated, and I think there's room for like, I got no problem adjusting how I am to not hurt someone I love's feelings. But I don't think the commitment would be then, I pretend I don't think that routine he did was funny.

Well, what have you learned from being friends with Monica? What has changed?

Oh, there's so many. The reality of the singular representation being a pooh and how traumatic that was for everyone. And there was a child during that. I can see the pain. I can see the dynamic of her being the only Brown person in a group and someone makes a joke that makes her very uncomfortable. And then she has to let them off the hook and soften their guilt and nurture them after they've done this thing. I see that whole cycle, and it's a heartbreaking bummer. And of course, I go back in my mind, I play these times where that happened a bunch around me, and I just didn't do anything, say anything, think anything about it. It's changed how I raise my kids. I think there's a ton of stuff that I've become very sympathetic to. Yeah.

Do you feel like there's ever been a time where I'm not there, that you're involved in something or you see something that you in your head is like, oh, that's probably not good that you wouldn't have thought was not good before?

For sure. And also, let me say, again, this is the line we're talking about. It's like, I see some comedians trying to do what Schultz does, and they can't. I see the other people do it. I'm like, no, they're just hateful. You can sense it. So I think, and you It might disagree with me on this, but I can delineate between someone saying something funny and someone saying something mean-spirited and disparaging and with the underlying superiority.

I can, too. That's the point of living as a minority. You figure out what's hateful and what's not because a lot of things are coming at you. But the problem is, it's not about the actual person. Again, I don't It's hard for me to speak on him because I just don't know anything about him other than that Taylor Swift video, which I liked.

That's why I specifically sent you that one.

Yeah. I'm sure I would find a ton of his stuff very funny. You know when Chapelle left, The Chapelle Show. Yeah. And he had been doing all this extremely racial comedy.

Yeah, Black KKK member.

Exactly. And he loved it. He didn't have a problem with it. He said the reason he had to leave is he was able to hear the sound of the laughter of the white people in the room. And he recognized, oh, he can make those jokes, and he knows what's behind it. But that person who's laughing doesn't and is now extrapolating all the worst parts of it. And that's the problem with some of this comedy, which, again, I can find very funny, but I can see in the audience and I can hear the laughter of people who don't get the layers of it and are just US now using it as racist father.

This is like the age old Howard Stern debate. And he himself and Gary Dellebante on the show will acknowledge this, which is like, they're doing a very elevated thing. But yes, it's appealing to this very simple guttural thing. Sometimes they're at gas stations and someone yelled something and they go, they aren't getting it.

That can be dangerous.

My position on that is that person is that person. We're blaming Stern that they're misinterpreting Stern. I disagree. They're that way. They're They're going to find whatever dog whistley thing they're going to find. And to hang in on somebody who is clearly doing something intentional, I don't know that I agree that they have to be responsible for the worst person interpreting it the worst way.

I agree with you there. It's just how are people choosing to use their platforms. And it can be funny and it can be comedic, and you can have parts of that. But as long as I hope, you as a comedian can recognize, oh, there are people here who are not getting it. And so for those people, is there a way for me to try to position this so that they do. Or if you don't give a fuck, you don't give a fuck.

Yeah, it might be more about, do you think you have that power to make that person a different person? Because I think that's beyond the limits of what we can do.

I mean, some people do comedy in order to change minds. And if it's a minority of people who just don't get it. But to Dave Chappelle's point, if you're hearing that laughter louder, then it says something about your comedy or what you're doing.

I can't be a part of this.

As I remember him retelling it, yeah, he was in the editing room, and he actually was like, They're laughing in the wrong place. They're laughing at this part that's actually not the funny part of it. They're just laughing at the thing that's ostensibly racist. You could get really broad with it and go like, Yes, somebody has murdered someone to Blackbird by Beatles. For whatever reason they got out of Blackbird that they should murder someone, or all the assassins who have been reading Catcher in the Rye when they caught them.

That's not the same as someone making funny, but on the line racist joke And then racists are like, yeah, that's different than extrapolating from Blackbird.

Well, what I'm saying is that several people read Catcher in the Rye, and we're like, we need to assassinate this famous person. I can't blame Catcher in the Rye for that. I got to blame the people that took that from Catcher in the Rye. It's not the same. That's apples to oranges. I guess I'm just talking about art in the interpretation of art.

Yeah, but when your art is part of it is making racist jokes or racial jokes, it's just more dangerous. There was something in Catcher in the right. I don't know. But it wasn't explicit enough that any one of us can read it and be like, I get it. We don't get it, right? But we get how these jokes would make someone racist or make someone's beliefs get more indoctrinated.

But if you're going to be toeing that line, you have a higher responsibility, I think, to make sure that your art is good and that it's air tight and that people don't misinterpret it. Again, I haven't seen the special either, but I would hope that he's going the extra mile in order to make good comedy that can't be misinterpreted. I think the better that you are at it, the less people will be confused about what it means. I mean, he's the one who texted me.

I know. You had an Andrew Schultz event.

I had an Andrew Schultz event.

He texted you. We Oh, you went on a date.

I think you went on a date. We never went on the date. Oh, you didn't go on a date. No, but because he texted me, White men don't get enough credit for inventing feminism. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good joke. It wasn't a joke, though. We got into a hole. Anyway, whatever. We're friendly and seeing each other since. But I want to I have to watch it in order to know how I feel about it.

Well, anyway, did we answer it? No. Okay. Are we still on the laugh?

Yes.

I thought we did. We did. Well, her question is, should she say anything? I think it's worth mentioning.

What would you say? I would make a joke. I knew you were going to say that. I always want to make jokes about things, which is not healthy.

I knew you were going to say passive-aggressively make a joke about it.

No, just laugh about it. Be like, Oh, my God, your laugh is so… Did your laugh change? I would just make it light and then go from there because it is silly. And I think making it super serious. I mean, I think your answer is great. What I would probably do is make a joke about it.

And then I would get defensive. I'd feel stupid. You've just made fun of my new laugh. This thing I'm doing to be closer to this person I like. Now I'm embarrassed and self-conscious, and my reaction is like, okay, I can't do that laugh around her. So now you've set up a situation where it's like, I've created a boundary where you're not going to be yourself. There are safe zones being you, and there are not safe zones being you. And so your big victory is he'll still have the laugh, just not around you.

Yeah. I would say either bring it up or just understand what's happening with you and then let it go. Agreed.

It could be just, I accept that this is his laugh, and I see it for what it is, and he wants to be closer to the sky.

I can't believe our laughs have morphed.

One in 20 people believe they're identical.

That is so bizarre.

Yeah.

I think it happens. I think it's cute.

Absolutely.

It's also just musical. You're fusing a bit. It's nice. I wonder if it happens, though, when we're apart, or is it just when actual laughter is happening, it's morphing?

By the way, there's probably a deep evolution instinct to match and mimic your in-group.

Yeah, for sure. We all do it. Also because you don't want to stand out. Yeah.

If you're in a playground and your laugh is like, and that's your real laugh, you're out. You're fucking gone.

You are. You are dead.

No one's ever going to tell you a joke again. It's like, survival.

Okay. Well.

Okay. See, look how nervous you guys are.

We're like, I'm so out of group. Yeah, I don't like it.

There's like a ram in here or something.

Oh, man. All right. Well, that is it for today. Thank you, Dax, for joining us.

I have a little anxiety, the whole thing about Andrew Schultz hurt your feelings.

Oh, no, it didn't. Okay. I thought you were going to see you had anxiety that people might be upset, and they might. Yeah, people will be upset. That's fine. That's natural. This is the way it all goes. It's good to have different opinions in this world. I stand by that. Okay, next week, we're going on a double date. Fun. It's very up in the air.

Both people blind?

Yes. Liz is picking a person and then telling them to bring a single friend. Yeah. Okay. That's how this is going. We picked Liz's person today.

Okay, but have you already been on a date with the person? No. Okay, great. It is a first date for you and a first date for the lucky bachelor who's joining.

I don't know if we'll get to this by the time we record again.

This is a great idea.

Isn't it? Isn't it fun? It's a great idea.

If someone plays tennis, and he's an instructor/therapist, and we go on that date, shouldn't we play tennis, do a doubles match as a first day? Isn't that fun?

No, that would be like inviting the date to do a podcast with Monica. Like, watch me be fucking great at something, and you feel completely insecure and shitty, and I'm in a position of authority and weight. Okay, got it. I know why that appeals to you with your That's quite obvious. Very transparent.

But also, I don't think you can talk well. I think just in general, it's a bad idea.

The only version that Monica be up for is go sit in a professor's classroom. That's the date where she would just observe the professor be sexy.

Oh, okay.

He makes me take a test.

Oh, and it has with your shirt off. All right.

Well, if there's any professors out there who want to engage in this But this is a brilliant idea.

I know. I'm excited. I've heard you several times say what you often like about certain boys is that you're yourself around them.

Exactly.

To me, it's like a shortcut to your primary connection will be one that keeps you yourself.

I know. I think it'll be great. I think we're going to marry these people. I hope so.

The only... All right, now I'm going to predict a potential conflict ahead, which is what's also interesting is you're going to see each other on a date. You're not going to be able to help but go like, Oh, Liz does that thing.

It's like the laugh. And then Liz.

The laugh?

Yes. Maybe we have a date laugh.

Date Liz and date Monica.

That's right. You might be going like, Monica's being more bristly than she really is. Why isn't she being more open? These are my predictions of what might happen. Then you'll come back in here and you'll rehash this date. And ostensibly, it'll be about these guys. But I think ultimately, it's probably going to be about your guys's date personas. Yes. I love that.

Not very many people get the privilege of seeing someone else's date persona. It's true.

I've never seen anyone else's date persona.

All right. Well, anyway, not sure if this will happen by the time you- Why do you want to end this?

This is so fun. Why are you trying to land the plane? We just hit 30,000 feet. I don't want to go to bed. So you.

We were in the airport in Austin or India or something. It was silent for seven seconds, not long at all. And Doug said, What else can I talk about? I know. It's very endearing. It was a moment where I really was like, This is a little boy. This little boy just wants to talk.

He's in a big gray body, but he is an eight-year-old boy. Mom.

What else can we talk about?

Mom.

Oh, my God. I used to drive my parents crazy in the car because I would just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. I just wanted to keep talking. At one point, my mom was like, No more talking.

Well, you found both of your dream jobs. You're right. It totally fits. It's such a gift.

Okay, well, we are wrapping it up, and we will be back next week. Maybe we'll have been on the date, maybe not, but it's coming. It's coming. All right. See you next week.

Winter is coming.