So we hired a whole team out. We were doing 75 lives a month. And then the algorithm shifts, and all of a sudden overnight, it just doesn't work anymore. I think the hard part today is finding the pockets of opportunity where you pick the time to spend that hopefully there's longevity to it because it's not necessarily fun when you lean heavy into something and then things change and you have to completely pivot.

Welcome back to another episode of Chew on This. Season 4 today, we have Kevin joining us who is a serial entrepreneur. He's a co founder of Glamnetic, INH, and has his hands even in different investments and has been a huge builder in the D2C community. Kevin, thank you so much for taking time out to join us on the Chew on this pod. For the few people who don't know you, why don't you give us a little bit of background on your journey and how you got your hands in so many different things?

Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. By the way, you guys have the most legit Chew on this podcast studio. You got the lights, the canvases, this is legit.I appreciate that.I'm impressed. I guess to give you guys a quick background. So I grew up in North Carolina, moved to LA when I was 21, which was a while ago. I actually started on the entertainment side of the business. So I started in the mail room at a talent agency called WME, which is one of the largest talent agencies in the world. And I don't know if you guys ever saw the show, Entourage, but it's like investment banking where you just get your ass kicked, except in investment banking, you make money. In the talent business, you don't make any. Then you work your way up as an assistant. I was mostly working on the talent side with the young Hollywood actors, like the kids on Glee, some of the kids from twilight. And then I was really early there. I was interested in the influencer ecosystem. And at the At the time, WME had no one at the agency focused on influencers. So I thought, This is a really interesting opportunity.

Cut to, ended up leaving WME around 11 years ago. I started my own drop 250K on an outdoor campaign? I don't think we're just not there yet. I think you need to be a four or $500 million brand to start doing heavy outdoor.So you shared some of the things you're doing and some of the things that are winning and whatnot. But over these years, can you share some of the challenges, whether it's recent or some of the big moments that you had and how you got through them or how you're currently going through them?We've obviously learned a lot along the way. I think getting the right people in the right seats is super important. So we scale really quick. And so then making sure we were hiring for the right people at the right time was important. I think we made Made maybe some, not too many mistakes, but made some mistakes there. I think for us, one thing I'm really focused on is I love how you guys are in person. We didn't set the company up to be in person, though. And so it's always been a challenge, at least for me, being virtual and just pulling the team together in the same direction. And so I think a personal maybe mistake of mine that I've hopefully gotten better at over the years is aligning the team on exactly where we're going and giving clear direction on hear about a survey? Because when you look at the amount we spend on TikTok, maybe relative to the survey results, it's showing Knowing that it's coming from an organic capacity. I think we are now probably going to start leaning a little bit more in there, particularly in the shop. I think that there was definitely a concern for a while about TikTok not giving access to the emails and the data. And like, well, if you're going to spend here and then spend towards shop, but you're not getting the emails, then you pay all this money to acquire a customer, and then it's hard to remark it to them. I think TikTok is starting to develop out more remarketing capabilities. And So I think between now and the end of the year, we're going to start leaning in there a lot more. But then who the fuck knows?It might get banned. I don't think it's going to get banned. But it's just another one of those things where we're going to start putting more effort in. It's also interesting because there's now these brands that, again, people find pockets of opportunity in different pockets of time. Like the BK Beauty guy. I don't know him, but he's done a great job. Or this guy Hudson who runs Comfort Clothing. Man, they're the number one apparel brand on TikTok shop.Bk is number one, too, right?Yeah, I think in beauty. They've done an incredible job, and they built off a completely different platform than we all built off of. So there's more than one way to build a brand. I think for the TikTok shop focus brands, now they have to... It's actually a lot like TikTokers that are influencers. All the TikTokers that were influencers, their number one goal at the time was, I need to move off TikTok into YouTube or other platforms that can monetize better. It's the same thing now for these TikTok shop brands. They hit it on TikTok shop. They've got an unfair advantage there. How do they now parlay this into actual having a D2C presence, which sometimes is tough because their AOV is lower on TikTok, which doesn't work for D2C. Or how do they quickly make that a brand and not just a TikTok shop brand and then move that into retail. It's definitely a great launching pad for these brands, but they still have to figure out what to do post that. That's right.I find myself always bringing up that one collagen brand that sold For half a million units. I still don't know what the brand is called. It's just one of those things where you just see it over and over and over again. You're like, Oh, there's that collagen that I saw on TikTok, that TikTok collagen.Which I think that's awesome for whoever that guy is because he's probably just printing cash, but it doesn't have any brand value long term. It's going to be so hard for that. I know what brand... I can't even name the brand because it's not a brand. For them to then just turn that into something that actually has brand equity and long term value is going to be really hard. I would look at that more as just print cash on the side. I guess it's the next iteration of drop shipping, right?I'm so back and forth on it, and maybe it's because I'm salty, we haven't figured it out. But I feel like every time I see somebody promoting, let's just say that collagen. It could be even a section of mails. I'll hop into the live and ask questions about, Oh, What does type 5 collagen do? They have no idea. They're literally on TikTok shop going live just to cash it. To me, I feel like consumers are...You can't be getting a quality customer.You can't be, right? But then I'm just like, All right, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. How are people being sold by this? In my head, it has this negative connotation, but then also on the other side of it as being a marketer, it's like, I'm trying to onboard a thousand creators to start promoting Avi, and I don't care who they are. I get both sides, but to your point, I think just that brand value may not show through as much. And then it's like, Okay, well, you use this brand of collagen, what's stopping them from going somewhere else immediately? For sure.One question I do have is the competitive landscape for Whether it's INH or even galamnetic, how do you guys differentiate in that area? Because at least from, and again, this is just my lack of knowledge in the space, but in supplements, a lot I love the differentiation comes from results. Hey, our product either tastes better, works better, has better before and afters and results. Whereas, at least from where I see it, a lash is a lash. Yeah, maybe it's more fuller and this and that, but it feels like there's very small degrees of separation in the competitive landscape there, which means brand has to really prevail. Is that true? What's reallyThat's what we see, that competitive landscape look like?Good point. On the surface, yes, it looks to the eye like there's not a lot of differences. But I think even if you take nails, for example, or even our hair, it's custom molds, the wearability, the The quality, the details of design is a lot different. And I think the end consumer ultimately sees that. So I think that there is real differentiation in the product for sure. With hair, we sell on We have both human and synthetic hair. But on the synthetic side, it's a really high quality synthetic. It is a lot different than what you would buy on Amazon, a lot. There's certainly a customer that can buy that. That's totally cool. But you can really tell a quality difference. But then, yeah, I think you need that. But then brand in the end also wins out, right? So in a perfect world, you can combine having a better functional wearable product, particularly in beauty, and combine that with brand.Makes complete sense.It's the answer we give, too. It's like, how many different collagen are out there? You have vital proteins, which is the top dog. Go to Amazon, you could pick up a bottle for 15 bucks. But what you really buy into with Obvi is, one, obviously, formula and flavors, but the community behind that, too. You're not just buying a supplement. You're buying into a group that will help motivate you, keep you accountable, and answer any questions you really have on this new journey of yours.You want someone to feel like they're excited to tag you on Instagram and rep the brand. I was at WWD Beauty, which is a big beauty conference in Miami two weeks ago, and I had the Glammatic name tag on. And this girl comes up to me and she's like, Oh, my God, you're Glammatic. And then she puts her hands And she worked at WD. She puts her hands out and she's rocking her nails. And when you get that reaction, you're like, All right, that's really cool. And it's really hard to... It's hard to get people to buy your product, but it's even harder to get them to rep it.Oh, yeah.And talk about it. And so that's where I think you start to really separate and see differentiation. And look, as a brand owner, you're obviously biased towards your brand. And so I tried to take a little bit of an unbiased view and not just hype myself up. But when I see things like that, I'm like, okay, cool. I know we're making some of the right moves here. We need to continue to do a lot better on other things, but on some of the moves we're doing, we're doing the right thing.What's next for Kevin? So you've clearly obsessed with women-related products.. I'm curious with what's next. I know you've got your hands also in the SaaS space with Livecom. Obviously, building two brands as well. You're investing where you can. What are the next 5, 10 years look like for you?Yeah. So I guess in the immediate next year. So I think to what you just mentioned. So in addition to I and H and Glametic, which I run day to day, I incubated a SaaS business called Livecom, which really started with shoppable video and taking that TikTok video experience and putting it on site. And that's how consumers are consuming content now. And so we also have live streaming. So we have a partnership with TapCart, where we have an API that integrates shoppable video and live streaming in the app. But I have a great founder, Max, who runs that day to day. I'm really there for strategy, vice, bringing in brands. I'm really excited about the path for that. But other than INH and Glametic and running those and incubating live com, I'm really focused on that right now. Five to 10 years, I think my long term goal is to have two sides to the business. One is to buy beauty brands that maybe get stuck at 10 million and hopefully scale them to 50 to And I think we have the infrastructure, the marketing playbook to do that. And the other is I actually want to buy businesses and buy and hold forever.So I think there's something to be said about the person that starts a landscaping business that does eight million in revenue and three million in EBITDA a year. And that three million in EBITDA is true cash flow. And there's a lot of small businesses out there that I think... I think with brands, I go back and forth. It would be amazing to hold them forever. But then The reality is a lot of them at scale will go on to live another day somewhere else. With these other types of businesses, it's a really cool cash flowing portfolio that you can build that's completely different from consumer branding. And so directionally, that's where I'm thinking about. But there's a lot just to focus on in the moment right now and not get distracted. Yeah. Awesome.So we talked about quite a lot of things, influencer community, figuring out TikTok shop, right? What's one thing that you want viewers and listeners to take away from this episode and implement their business right now?I think it's just stay humble and Stay focused and constantly curious. I think all of us, the reason, because of how quickly things change, you just have to be on it, man. If you're not on it, you're not going to actually scale your brand. And so I think just being constantly inquisitive and curious is, I think, one of the number one traits of being an entrepreneur. I don't think there's any one tactical thing I could say that's like, do this and you're going to scale your brand. But just at a very high level, if you're not constantly curious, you're dead in the water. And stay humble. Because if not, you will get humbled.That's a bar. I love that. Chew on that. Chew on that. Awesome.If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok, and check out the website, chewonthis. Io.

drop 250K on an outdoor campaign? I don't think we're just not there yet. I think you need to be a four or $500 million brand to start doing heavy outdoor.

So you shared some of the things you're doing and some of the things that are winning and whatnot. But over these years, can you share some of the challenges, whether it's recent or some of the big moments that you had and how you got through them or how you're currently going through them?

We've obviously learned a lot along the way. I think getting the right people in the right seats is super important. So we scale really quick. And so then making sure we were hiring for the right people at the right time was important. I think we made Made maybe some, not too many mistakes, but made some mistakes there. I think for us, one thing I'm really focused on is I love how you guys are in person. We didn't set the company up to be in person, though. And so it's always been a challenge, at least for me, being virtual and just pulling the team together in the same direction. And so I think a personal maybe mistake of mine that I've hopefully gotten better at over the years is aligning the team on exactly where we're going and giving clear direction on hear about a survey? Because when you look at the amount we spend on TikTok, maybe relative to the survey results, it's showing Knowing that it's coming from an organic capacity. I think we are now probably going to start leaning a little bit more in there, particularly in the shop. I think that there was definitely a concern for a while about TikTok not giving access to the emails and the data. And like, well, if you're going to spend here and then spend towards shop, but you're not getting the emails, then you pay all this money to acquire a customer, and then it's hard to remark it to them. I think TikTok is starting to develop out more remarketing capabilities. And So I think between now and the end of the year, we're going to start leaning in there a lot more. But then who the fuck knows?It might get banned. I don't think it's going to get banned. But it's just another one of those things where we're going to start putting more effort in. It's also interesting because there's now these brands that, again, people find pockets of opportunity in different pockets of time. Like the BK Beauty guy. I don't know him, but he's done a great job. Or this guy Hudson who runs Comfort Clothing. Man, they're the number one apparel brand on TikTok shop.Bk is number one, too, right?Yeah, I think in beauty. They've done an incredible job, and they built off a completely different platform than we all built off of. So there's more than one way to build a brand. I think for the TikTok shop focus brands, now they have to... It's actually a lot like TikTokers that are influencers. All the TikTokers that were influencers, their number one goal at the time was, I need to move off TikTok into YouTube or other platforms that can monetize better. It's the same thing now for these TikTok shop brands. They hit it on TikTok shop. They've got an unfair advantage there. How do they now parlay this into actual having a D2C presence, which sometimes is tough because their AOV is lower on TikTok, which doesn't work for D2C. Or how do they quickly make that a brand and not just a TikTok shop brand and then move that into retail. It's definitely a great launching pad for these brands, but they still have to figure out what to do post that. That's right.I find myself always bringing up that one collagen brand that sold For half a million units. I still don't know what the brand is called. It's just one of those things where you just see it over and over and over again. You're like, Oh, there's that collagen that I saw on TikTok, that TikTok collagen.Which I think that's awesome for whoever that guy is because he's probably just printing cash, but it doesn't have any brand value long term. It's going to be so hard for that. I know what brand... I can't even name the brand because it's not a brand. For them to then just turn that into something that actually has brand equity and long term value is going to be really hard. I would look at that more as just print cash on the side. I guess it's the next iteration of drop shipping, right?I'm so back and forth on it, and maybe it's because I'm salty, we haven't figured it out. But I feel like every time I see somebody promoting, let's just say that collagen. It could be even a section of mails. I'll hop into the live and ask questions about, Oh, What does type 5 collagen do? They have no idea. They're literally on TikTok shop going live just to cash it. To me, I feel like consumers are...You can't be getting a quality customer.You can't be, right? But then I'm just like, All right, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. How are people being sold by this? In my head, it has this negative connotation, but then also on the other side of it as being a marketer, it's like, I'm trying to onboard a thousand creators to start promoting Avi, and I don't care who they are. I get both sides, but to your point, I think just that brand value may not show through as much. And then it's like, Okay, well, you use this brand of collagen, what's stopping them from going somewhere else immediately? For sure.One question I do have is the competitive landscape for Whether it's INH or even galamnetic, how do you guys differentiate in that area? Because at least from, and again, this is just my lack of knowledge in the space, but in supplements, a lot I love the differentiation comes from results. Hey, our product either tastes better, works better, has better before and afters and results. Whereas, at least from where I see it, a lash is a lash. Yeah, maybe it's more fuller and this and that, but it feels like there's very small degrees of separation in the competitive landscape there, which means brand has to really prevail. Is that true? What's reallyThat's what we see, that competitive landscape look like?Good point. On the surface, yes, it looks to the eye like there's not a lot of differences. But I think even if you take nails, for example, or even our hair, it's custom molds, the wearability, the The quality, the details of design is a lot different. And I think the end consumer ultimately sees that. So I think that there is real differentiation in the product for sure. With hair, we sell on We have both human and synthetic hair. But on the synthetic side, it's a really high quality synthetic. It is a lot different than what you would buy on Amazon, a lot. There's certainly a customer that can buy that. That's totally cool. But you can really tell a quality difference. But then, yeah, I think you need that. But then brand in the end also wins out, right? So in a perfect world, you can combine having a better functional wearable product, particularly in beauty, and combine that with brand.Makes complete sense.It's the answer we give, too. It's like, how many different collagen are out there? You have vital proteins, which is the top dog. Go to Amazon, you could pick up a bottle for 15 bucks. But what you really buy into with Obvi is, one, obviously, formula and flavors, but the community behind that, too. You're not just buying a supplement. You're buying into a group that will help motivate you, keep you accountable, and answer any questions you really have on this new journey of yours.You want someone to feel like they're excited to tag you on Instagram and rep the brand. I was at WWD Beauty, which is a big beauty conference in Miami two weeks ago, and I had the Glammatic name tag on. And this girl comes up to me and she's like, Oh, my God, you're Glammatic. And then she puts her hands And she worked at WD. She puts her hands out and she's rocking her nails. And when you get that reaction, you're like, All right, that's really cool. And it's really hard to... It's hard to get people to buy your product, but it's even harder to get them to rep it.Oh, yeah.And talk about it. And so that's where I think you start to really separate and see differentiation. And look, as a brand owner, you're obviously biased towards your brand. And so I tried to take a little bit of an unbiased view and not just hype myself up. But when I see things like that, I'm like, okay, cool. I know we're making some of the right moves here. We need to continue to do a lot better on other things, but on some of the moves we're doing, we're doing the right thing.What's next for Kevin? So you've clearly obsessed with women-related products.. I'm curious with what's next. I know you've got your hands also in the SaaS space with Livecom. Obviously, building two brands as well. You're investing where you can. What are the next 5, 10 years look like for you?Yeah. So I guess in the immediate next year. So I think to what you just mentioned. So in addition to I and H and Glametic, which I run day to day, I incubated a SaaS business called Livecom, which really started with shoppable video and taking that TikTok video experience and putting it on site. And that's how consumers are consuming content now. And so we also have live streaming. So we have a partnership with TapCart, where we have an API that integrates shoppable video and live streaming in the app. But I have a great founder, Max, who runs that day to day. I'm really there for strategy, vice, bringing in brands. I'm really excited about the path for that. But other than INH and Glametic and running those and incubating live com, I'm really focused on that right now. Five to 10 years, I think my long term goal is to have two sides to the business. One is to buy beauty brands that maybe get stuck at 10 million and hopefully scale them to 50 to And I think we have the infrastructure, the marketing playbook to do that. And the other is I actually want to buy businesses and buy and hold forever.So I think there's something to be said about the person that starts a landscaping business that does eight million in revenue and three million in EBITDA a year. And that three million in EBITDA is true cash flow. And there's a lot of small businesses out there that I think... I think with brands, I go back and forth. It would be amazing to hold them forever. But then The reality is a lot of them at scale will go on to live another day somewhere else. With these other types of businesses, it's a really cool cash flowing portfolio that you can build that's completely different from consumer branding. And so directionally, that's where I'm thinking about. But there's a lot just to focus on in the moment right now and not get distracted. Yeah. Awesome.So we talked about quite a lot of things, influencer community, figuring out TikTok shop, right? What's one thing that you want viewers and listeners to take away from this episode and implement their business right now?I think it's just stay humble and Stay focused and constantly curious. I think all of us, the reason, because of how quickly things change, you just have to be on it, man. If you're not on it, you're not going to actually scale your brand. And so I think just being constantly inquisitive and curious is, I think, one of the number one traits of being an entrepreneur. I don't think there's any one tactical thing I could say that's like, do this and you're going to scale your brand. But just at a very high level, if you're not constantly curious, you're dead in the water. And stay humble. Because if not, you will get humbled.That's a bar. I love that. Chew on that. Chew on that. Awesome.If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok, and check out the website, chewonthis. Io.

hear about a survey? Because when you look at the amount we spend on TikTok, maybe relative to the survey results, it's showing Knowing that it's coming from an organic capacity. I think we are now probably going to start leaning a little bit more in there, particularly in the shop. I think that there was definitely a concern for a while about TikTok not giving access to the emails and the data. And like, well, if you're going to spend here and then spend towards shop, but you're not getting the emails, then you pay all this money to acquire a customer, and then it's hard to remark it to them. I think TikTok is starting to develop out more remarketing capabilities. And So I think between now and the end of the year, we're going to start leaning in there a lot more. But then who the fuck knows?

It might get banned. I don't think it's going to get banned. But it's just another one of those things where we're going to start putting more effort in. It's also interesting because there's now these brands that, again, people find pockets of opportunity in different pockets of time. Like the BK Beauty guy. I don't know him, but he's done a great job. Or this guy Hudson who runs Comfort Clothing. Man, they're the number one apparel brand on TikTok shop.

Bk is number one, too, right?

Yeah, I think in beauty. They've done an incredible job, and they built off a completely different platform than we all built off of. So there's more than one way to build a brand. I think for the TikTok shop focus brands, now they have to... It's actually a lot like TikTokers that are influencers. All the TikTokers that were influencers, their number one goal at the time was, I need to move off TikTok into YouTube or other platforms that can monetize better. It's the same thing now for these TikTok shop brands. They hit it on TikTok shop. They've got an unfair advantage there. How do they now parlay this into actual having a D2C presence, which sometimes is tough because their AOV is lower on TikTok, which doesn't work for D2C. Or how do they quickly make that a brand and not just a TikTok shop brand and then move that into retail. It's definitely a great launching pad for these brands, but they still have to figure out what to do post that. That's right.

I find myself always bringing up that one collagen brand that sold For half a million units. I still don't know what the brand is called. It's just one of those things where you just see it over and over and over again. You're like, Oh, there's that collagen that I saw on TikTok, that TikTok collagen.

Which I think that's awesome for whoever that guy is because he's probably just printing cash, but it doesn't have any brand value long term. It's going to be so hard for that. I know what brand... I can't even name the brand because it's not a brand. For them to then just turn that into something that actually has brand equity and long term value is going to be really hard. I would look at that more as just print cash on the side. I guess it's the next iteration of drop shipping, right?

I'm so back and forth on it, and maybe it's because I'm salty, we haven't figured it out. But I feel like every time I see somebody promoting, let's just say that collagen. It could be even a section of mails. I'll hop into the live and ask questions about, Oh, What does type 5 collagen do? They have no idea. They're literally on TikTok shop going live just to cash it. To me, I feel like consumers are...

You can't be getting a quality customer.

You can't be, right? But then I'm just like, All right, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. How are people being sold by this? In my head, it has this negative connotation, but then also on the other side of it as being a marketer, it's like, I'm trying to onboard a thousand creators to start promoting Avi, and I don't care who they are. I get both sides, but to your point, I think just that brand value may not show through as much. And then it's like, Okay, well, you use this brand of collagen, what's stopping them from going somewhere else immediately? For sure.

One question I do have is the competitive landscape for Whether it's INH or even galamnetic, how do you guys differentiate in that area? Because at least from, and again, this is just my lack of knowledge in the space, but in supplements, a lot I love the differentiation comes from results. Hey, our product either tastes better, works better, has better before and afters and results. Whereas, at least from where I see it, a lash is a lash. Yeah, maybe it's more fuller and this and that, but it feels like there's very small degrees of separation in the competitive landscape there, which means brand has to really prevail. Is that true? What's reallyThat's what we see, that competitive landscape look like?

Good point. On the surface, yes, it looks to the eye like there's not a lot of differences. But I think even if you take nails, for example, or even our hair, it's custom molds, the wearability, the The quality, the details of design is a lot different. And I think the end consumer ultimately sees that. So I think that there is real differentiation in the product for sure. With hair, we sell on We have both human and synthetic hair. But on the synthetic side, it's a really high quality synthetic. It is a lot different than what you would buy on Amazon, a lot. There's certainly a customer that can buy that. That's totally cool. But you can really tell a quality difference. But then, yeah, I think you need that. But then brand in the end also wins out, right? So in a perfect world, you can combine having a better functional wearable product, particularly in beauty, and combine that with brand.

Makes complete sense.

It's the answer we give, too. It's like, how many different collagen are out there? You have vital proteins, which is the top dog. Go to Amazon, you could pick up a bottle for 15 bucks. But what you really buy into with Obvi is, one, obviously, formula and flavors, but the community behind that, too. You're not just buying a supplement. You're buying into a group that will help motivate you, keep you accountable, and answer any questions you really have on this new journey of yours.

You want someone to feel like they're excited to tag you on Instagram and rep the brand. I was at WWD Beauty, which is a big beauty conference in Miami two weeks ago, and I had the Glammatic name tag on. And this girl comes up to me and she's like, Oh, my God, you're Glammatic. And then she puts her hands And she worked at WD. She puts her hands out and she's rocking her nails. And when you get that reaction, you're like, All right, that's really cool. And it's really hard to... It's hard to get people to buy your product, but it's even harder to get them to rep it.

Oh, yeah.

And talk about it. And so that's where I think you start to really separate and see differentiation. And look, as a brand owner, you're obviously biased towards your brand. And so I tried to take a little bit of an unbiased view and not just hype myself up. But when I see things like that, I'm like, okay, cool. I know we're making some of the right moves here. We need to continue to do a lot better on other things, but on some of the moves we're doing, we're doing the right thing.

What's next for Kevin? So you've clearly obsessed with women-related products.. I'm curious with what's next. I know you've got your hands also in the SaaS space with Livecom. Obviously, building two brands as well. You're investing where you can. What are the next 5, 10 years look like for you?

Yeah. So I guess in the immediate next year. So I think to what you just mentioned. So in addition to I and H and Glametic, which I run day to day, I incubated a SaaS business called Livecom, which really started with shoppable video and taking that TikTok video experience and putting it on site. And that's how consumers are consuming content now. And so we also have live streaming. So we have a partnership with TapCart, where we have an API that integrates shoppable video and live streaming in the app. But I have a great founder, Max, who runs that day to day. I'm really there for strategy, vice, bringing in brands. I'm really excited about the path for that. But other than INH and Glametic and running those and incubating live com, I'm really focused on that right now. Five to 10 years, I think my long term goal is to have two sides to the business. One is to buy beauty brands that maybe get stuck at 10 million and hopefully scale them to 50 to And I think we have the infrastructure, the marketing playbook to do that. And the other is I actually want to buy businesses and buy and hold forever.

So I think there's something to be said about the person that starts a landscaping business that does eight million in revenue and three million in EBITDA a year. And that three million in EBITDA is true cash flow. And there's a lot of small businesses out there that I think... I think with brands, I go back and forth. It would be amazing to hold them forever. But then The reality is a lot of them at scale will go on to live another day somewhere else. With these other types of businesses, it's a really cool cash flowing portfolio that you can build that's completely different from consumer branding. And so directionally, that's where I'm thinking about. But there's a lot just to focus on in the moment right now and not get distracted. Yeah. Awesome.

So we talked about quite a lot of things, influencer community, figuring out TikTok shop, right? What's one thing that you want viewers and listeners to take away from this episode and implement their business right now?

I think it's just stay humble and Stay focused and constantly curious. I think all of us, the reason, because of how quickly things change, you just have to be on it, man. If you're not on it, you're not going to actually scale your brand. And so I think just being constantly inquisitive and curious is, I think, one of the number one traits of being an entrepreneur. I don't think there's any one tactical thing I could say that's like, do this and you're going to scale your brand. But just at a very high level, if you're not constantly curious, you're dead in the water. And stay humble. Because if not, you will get humbled.

That's a bar. I love that. Chew on that. Chew on that. Awesome.

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