We A/B test things in our email marketing, and then we get these customers and we just pray. And maybe we run a cancelation survey. And it's like, at that point, come on, we got to do more.

I love when tests lose because it just reemphasizes all the more why testing is so important. There are so many things where you're like, oh, well, to me, it seems so obvious that this would win. The customer behaves differently sometimes. And until you actually put it, you don't necessarily know how it's going to perform. And it's so much easier to run a test and see the results to just go ahead and deploy and then be like, Wait, shoot. Why are our numbers changing? Why are our metrics dropping after the fact? And then you're trying to scramble back.

Hey, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Chew on This, Subscription and Retention podcast. I am your host today, Gina. We have kicked all the boys out of the room for once. And I'm joined by Amanda, who's the Director of Ecom and Lifecycle Marketing at First Day.

Yeah, so great to be here. Yes. Girls' Chat.

This is a little girls' chat. And yeah, really, I'm excited to dive into the strategy. I have been fortunate enough to have worked with Amanda and the First Day team for almost two years now. We're not at the two-year mark yet, right? Maybe, I think that's summer. Coming up, yeah. Yeah, awesome. You guys have been one of the best power users of the day. It's been so fun, and I'm sure there was learning curves in some time in the beginning where you're like, Why doesn't it work this way? I was like, Why doesn't it work that way?

Or we're just bugging you guys a ton. That's the code for power user right there.

No, it was good. It absolutely made a lot of the Our future is better in the long run. I think we learned a lot. So I'm really excited to get our company values on a frequent basis, and one of them is rigorous, not perfection. And so we're making sure we apply just as high of intellectual rigor as possible to all of our experiments. We're controlling for as many variables as possible so that we can get a true learning out of it. It's not even just chasing after the metric necessarily, but how can we ensure that this is a takeaway that we can apply to other aspects of the company or additional experiences that the customer has? I love that.I think that's something even just me as a founder, I've been trying to get better at is our values and not just having them be these things that are written that most employees couldn't name a single one of our values, honestly. I need to get better at that. So I love that that's a value. You're like, Oh, yeah, it's absolutely ingrained in what we do, which is probably why First Day is such a successful company. So I'd love to just jump right in and do a little bit about what you've done with Stay, maybe some of the tools as you look at subscription, as opposed from one-time purchases, really zeroing on a subscription, what are the things that you're really focused on right now?Yeah. I would say I put it into two primary categories. One is the subscription opt-in side. I think The thing that I'm constantly thinking about is, of course, you can go out acquire customers. We're looking for maybe top-line revenue. But I think I'm really concerned with what is the actual breakdown between OTP, one-time purchase and subscribers, as much as possible? Because when you look at the data, you look at the customer journey, the subscribers are worth so much more, so much more than a one-time purchase customer. And there are trade offs that you have to make. And there are going to be certain experiments that we run where we might see conversion rate dip in the aggregate. But if we're seeing major improvements on subscriber conversion rate or a subscriber opt-in, you have to run the math because there is a moment where the numbers don't make sense. But sometimes you have to make hard on that side of things. And we're thinking a lot about payback as well. So the cost of acquiring the customer, when are we actually reaching a payback point? How many months is that going to take? And it's far, far easier to reach that when you're looking at a subscriber.So that's the getting the customer side. Yeah.The very top. You're like, let's just get them to be a subscriber.Let's just get more in here. And then there's the retention side of things, which I feel like there are There's a lot of companies who they only focus maybe on the first part, and then they're like, great, you're a subscriber. You'll stay with us forever. Surely you'll love us forever. Nobody will ever just cancel. Right. And that's not how things go. And so at that point, we're focusing a lot on the post-purchase journey. How are people actually interacting with the product? What are we educating customers about as they're taking the product and making sure that they can understand the value of things? How are we reminding them of the benefits that they're getting as a subscriber? And then, of course, doing a lot of testing for once they're in the portal, how are we decreasing cancelation? How are we decreasing churn as much as possible? And I guess one other aspect of that that I'm often looking at is not necessarily only focusing on percentage of active subscribers, because especially with us being a supplements company, the amount that you can take in a normal bottle or a pouch that we ship out to customers is a one month supply, right?And Having a customer who's continually pushing out their next subscription date a few more weeks or a few more weeks, chances are that means that they're not actually taking the product on a consistent basis. And so I'm thinking a lot, actually, about how can we How can we get that second order? How can we get that third order? When exactly is that happening? And when are they coming back for month two, month three, et cetera? And them just changing their date and pushing it out more and more is not necessarily It's really beneficial. Sure, you haven't lost them in a true cancelation form, but they aren't benefiting their LTV.Yeah, I absolutely get that. And that's probably one of the reasons why we built the tool experience engine at Stay. I always say, When we first built Stay, there was a main reason why I wanted to build a tool that outside of what it already exists, and it was to allow people to A/B test things to their subscribers. I found it crazy that we spend so much money acquiring customers, that we A/B test everything on our ads, we A/B test things in our email marketing, and then we get these customers and we just pray, and maybe we run a cancelation survey. And it's like, at that point, come on, we got to do more. So for anyone who's not familiar, Experience Engine is a tool within Stay that allows you to run A/B test to customers, either if somebody has a specific product in their car or if they're at order number two, at order number three. You guys have tested quite a few things. I would love to dive into that.Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And I mean, the fact that you guys have A/B testing built into the platform, specifically, is such a huge value add to us, because otherwise, we would be doing all these crazy hacks on the back end to get products into orders and everything like that.And then trying to track the orders and what group of who got this and who didn't and It just is... Yeah. So we try to take as much of that off of your plate as we can.Much appreciated. But yes, one of the major tests that I love to talk about is we did a mystery gift test. So we decided we'd We have a gift with purchase, keeping it a total mystery to customers. And the way that we set it up in Experience Engine is it happened on the first renewal, second order, essentially. So the cool thing about how you guys run Experience Engine is that it applies pretty much immediately after the purchase itself. And so that way, at any point in the upcoming month, if they log into their portal, they instantly get that pop up and it says, Hey, you've got a free gift purchase, or I think they said, Free mystery gift for us. And then it shows up actually in their order itself. And then so that's definitely a benefit because you're able to hit customers with that during the entire lead up to their second purchase. But then there's also the email side of things. And so we were able to, because you guys have all of the connection points to Klaviyo, which we really appreciate, be able to actually set up the flow so that if they had this product or if they had this experience engine turned on as part of the promotion, it would then show a special letter that we had written from Alice, our founder, explaining this is a gift for subscribers.We hope you love it. This is a one-time thing just for this order. And then again, that product itself is showing up in their order section of that upcoming order email. And then later on, it's also showing up in their delivery order or delivery emails and whatnot. So there are multiple touch points along the way that the customer is able to see that product and able to experience it, which is great.Yeah. And so that was it. So you did test it, like gift versus no gift, and gift ended up winning. Yes. Then you had some tests that maybe did not It did not work out. Yes. Which is fine, and that's why you have to A/B test things.Yes. This first test itself was hugely successful, which was so exciting. We were mainly looking at, all right, can we increase the reorder rate for order number two, and we saw a lift there. We also were monitoring. So we pulled the data twice with your team, once immediately after, and then a full month after that on the order number three. And we're really fortunate to see a lift there as well. And so be able to actually raise the entire curve, which is huge for us. So then you start brainstorming and thinking about all these different things you can be testing. And I was like, All right, clearly, the The gift that we have, it's on the smaller side. It's a nice little surprise and delight for customer. I'm like, But maybe we should do something more substantial, really lux experience. Super exciting there. Went through this whole process with our product team. We're factoring in pretty much the all-in cost for this product. So it's the product cost itself. We're looking at shipment changes, the incremental. If we're putting that into the bag, are we then going up a size? Does that to a different tier?We're looking at if we have to actually do picking at the fulfillment side, et cetera, et cetera. Really just baking in the full cost of things. And the test that we ran was, all right, you've got a mystery gift or a mystery gift with $25 value, and we hiked that up a little bit more. Hilariously, we saw completely no difference whatsoever between Mr. Gift and that type of stuff. But at the same time, customers are only reading maybe 20% of what they even see.All the stuff in the marketing team is pouring their heart and soul into writing.And you're like, We really hope that they latch on to this. We really hope that they can see that. It is a challenge, but it's a fun one. Okay, fun.We've talked so much about the different tools, a lot on experience engine. You guys have Klaviyo quick actions going. You're using a retention engine with the cancelation flows. And Is there anything else that we didn't hit on that you guys are using from tools? Let's see.I would say probably certain customization aspects actually for the portal itself. You guys have the ability to go in and add a custom banner at the very top of the portal itself, and that we've definitely done some testing with.You guys, actually, now that I'm thinking about the portal, because I just logged in to it this weekend, you guys do something different with the banner than a lot of other people. I think that when I walk, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's multiple, but when When I jumped into the first day portal, it was almost welcomed me as I was a VIP and maybe gave some... It was like, this is your special... It gave some type of, not membership benefits, it's not the right word, but it did something like that instead of pushing another product at me, which I was like, Oh, this is my special exclusive portal place. Any conscious decision around what to put on the banner? Did you test anything there?Yeah. It was definitely very conscious, and this was dreamed up by our Ecomm manager who did an amazing job with it. Essentially, we were thinking of, All right, when people have actually gone into the portal, I mentioned this before, they often have the intention. In an ideal world, they're like, Oh, I'll change my day or I'll swap a product or something like that. Chances are they're there to cut you loose, they're there to cancel. And so we're like, all right, how can we actually target that? And we did way back and forth between focusing on retention efforts Versus a cross-sell effort. And at the end of the day, we're able to target pretty much not the entire customer base, but the bulk of the customer base of hypothetically why they're coming into the portal. And that is going to make a higher impact than necessarily being able to convince them to cross-sell in that moment when they've already logged in. So that was a lot of our logic there. And we essentially have it established where we're explaining to them the benefits that they already get from their subscription. With this VIP status and the 15% off.We also have a special email address that they can email to get a better customer service experience. And through that, it's really tying into this cognitive bias of loss aversion, right? That they have this benefit already, and they've already gone through the process of understanding that signing up for it, but you don't want to lose it. You don't want to get rid of that benefit that you already have. And yeah, when we tested it, we saw an improvement to, or rather a decrease to the cancelation rates that we had in the portal itself.I love that. I like when tools are used for things outside of what I originally envisioned them for. It just was not why I requested that. But then I see it and I'm like, But that's why we give it to the people. That is why you put features out and you take customer feedback because I really thought about it as announcing new products and announcing new things. But that's That's such a great use case that I just hadn't thought about before. I love that. There's also, I think, another small touch in your portal that I noticed the other day down at the cancelation button because we give everyone the option to change copy, and it's all no code, where I'm like, Just find subtle tweaks to make that make it a little bit more on brand to you. Almost never anybody ever changes the copy. I'm like, This is such a missed opportunity. There was something on your cancelation button where it was cancel and lose VIP status. I was like, God, that was so good. That takes one second to implement. It was just such a nice touch where I went there and I was like, Oh, well, now I've got this banner that greets me and tells me what a wonderful VIP that I am.Then I scroll all the way to the bottom and now I'm going to lose my status.I And I believe we actually, we tested that separately. So we tested the banner first and we saw success there. And so we're like, all right, the ethos, the learning here is that this resonates with our customers. This is actually something that's interesting to them. So we're like, all right, let's then test if we can change the CTA here. And yeah, saw another lift from that.I love it. All right, so we have covered so much today. We have gone through it all. We wrap up the episode with a chew. So what is a good takeaway for someone. So maybe thinking about somebody who's looking at their subscription program, what would your chew be for the day?I feel like the theme of everything, the true thing to chew on is experiment on things, even if you think. Even if you think that it's obvious, even if you think that the customer is definitely going to take that action, even if you can't even think of other reasons as to why they wouldn't, test it out and see the results and see what type of learning is you can get from it. It's truly always worth it to test and to have that definitive learning and be able to pass that learning on to other parts of your marketing team.So a fail test is still a win. Yes, it is.It truly is.Amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you for coming on today. This is so fun. All right. Awesome.Thank you.If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok, and check out the website, chewonthis.Io.

our company values on a frequent basis, and one of them is rigorous, not perfection. And so we're making sure we apply just as high of intellectual rigor as possible to all of our experiments. We're controlling for as many variables as possible so that we can get a true learning out of it. It's not even just chasing after the metric necessarily, but how can we ensure that this is a takeaway that we can apply to other aspects of the company or additional experiences that the customer has? I love that.

I think that's something even just me as a founder, I've been trying to get better at is our values and not just having them be these things that are written that most employees couldn't name a single one of our values, honestly. I need to get better at that. So I love that that's a value. You're like, Oh, yeah, it's absolutely ingrained in what we do, which is probably why First Day is such a successful company. So I'd love to just jump right in and do a little bit about what you've done with Stay, maybe some of the tools as you look at subscription, as opposed from one-time purchases, really zeroing on a subscription, what are the things that you're really focused on right now?

Yeah. I would say I put it into two primary categories. One is the subscription opt-in side. I think The thing that I'm constantly thinking about is, of course, you can go out acquire customers. We're looking for maybe top-line revenue. But I think I'm really concerned with what is the actual breakdown between OTP, one-time purchase and subscribers, as much as possible? Because when you look at the data, you look at the customer journey, the subscribers are worth so much more, so much more than a one-time purchase customer. And there are trade offs that you have to make. And there are going to be certain experiments that we run where we might see conversion rate dip in the aggregate. But if we're seeing major improvements on subscriber conversion rate or a subscriber opt-in, you have to run the math because there is a moment where the numbers don't make sense. But sometimes you have to make hard on that side of things. And we're thinking a lot about payback as well. So the cost of acquiring the customer, when are we actually reaching a payback point? How many months is that going to take? And it's far, far easier to reach that when you're looking at a subscriber.

So that's the getting the customer side. Yeah.

The very top. You're like, let's just get them to be a subscriber.

Let's just get more in here. And then there's the retention side of things, which I feel like there are There's a lot of companies who they only focus maybe on the first part, and then they're like, great, you're a subscriber. You'll stay with us forever. Surely you'll love us forever. Nobody will ever just cancel. Right. And that's not how things go. And so at that point, we're focusing a lot on the post-purchase journey. How are people actually interacting with the product? What are we educating customers about as they're taking the product and making sure that they can understand the value of things? How are we reminding them of the benefits that they're getting as a subscriber? And then, of course, doing a lot of testing for once they're in the portal, how are we decreasing cancelation? How are we decreasing churn as much as possible? And I guess one other aspect of that that I'm often looking at is not necessarily only focusing on percentage of active subscribers, because especially with us being a supplements company, the amount that you can take in a normal bottle or a pouch that we ship out to customers is a one month supply, right?

And Having a customer who's continually pushing out their next subscription date a few more weeks or a few more weeks, chances are that means that they're not actually taking the product on a consistent basis. And so I'm thinking a lot, actually, about how can we How can we get that second order? How can we get that third order? When exactly is that happening? And when are they coming back for month two, month three, et cetera? And them just changing their date and pushing it out more and more is not necessarily It's really beneficial. Sure, you haven't lost them in a true cancelation form, but they aren't benefiting their LTV.

Yeah, I absolutely get that. And that's probably one of the reasons why we built the tool experience engine at Stay. I always say, When we first built Stay, there was a main reason why I wanted to build a tool that outside of what it already exists, and it was to allow people to A/B test things to their subscribers. I found it crazy that we spend so much money acquiring customers, that we A/B test everything on our ads, we A/B test things in our email marketing, and then we get these customers and we just pray, and maybe we run a cancelation survey. And it's like, at that point, come on, we got to do more. So for anyone who's not familiar, Experience Engine is a tool within Stay that allows you to run A/B test to customers, either if somebody has a specific product in their car or if they're at order number two, at order number three. You guys have tested quite a few things. I would love to dive into that.

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And I mean, the fact that you guys have A/B testing built into the platform, specifically, is such a huge value add to us, because otherwise, we would be doing all these crazy hacks on the back end to get products into orders and everything like that.

And then trying to track the orders and what group of who got this and who didn't and It just is... Yeah. So we try to take as much of that off of your plate as we can.

Much appreciated. But yes, one of the major tests that I love to talk about is we did a mystery gift test. So we decided we'd We have a gift with purchase, keeping it a total mystery to customers. And the way that we set it up in Experience Engine is it happened on the first renewal, second order, essentially. So the cool thing about how you guys run Experience Engine is that it applies pretty much immediately after the purchase itself. And so that way, at any point in the upcoming month, if they log into their portal, they instantly get that pop up and it says, Hey, you've got a free gift purchase, or I think they said, Free mystery gift for us. And then it shows up actually in their order itself. And then so that's definitely a benefit because you're able to hit customers with that during the entire lead up to their second purchase. But then there's also the email side of things. And so we were able to, because you guys have all of the connection points to Klaviyo, which we really appreciate, be able to actually set up the flow so that if they had this product or if they had this experience engine turned on as part of the promotion, it would then show a special letter that we had written from Alice, our founder, explaining this is a gift for subscribers.

We hope you love it. This is a one-time thing just for this order. And then again, that product itself is showing up in their order section of that upcoming order email. And then later on, it's also showing up in their delivery order or delivery emails and whatnot. So there are multiple touch points along the way that the customer is able to see that product and able to experience it, which is great.

Yeah. And so that was it. So you did test it, like gift versus no gift, and gift ended up winning. Yes. Then you had some tests that maybe did not It did not work out. Yes. Which is fine, and that's why you have to A/B test things.

Yes. This first test itself was hugely successful, which was so exciting. We were mainly looking at, all right, can we increase the reorder rate for order number two, and we saw a lift there. We also were monitoring. So we pulled the data twice with your team, once immediately after, and then a full month after that on the order number three. And we're really fortunate to see a lift there as well. And so be able to actually raise the entire curve, which is huge for us. So then you start brainstorming and thinking about all these different things you can be testing. And I was like, All right, clearly, the The gift that we have, it's on the smaller side. It's a nice little surprise and delight for customer. I'm like, But maybe we should do something more substantial, really lux experience. Super exciting there. Went through this whole process with our product team. We're factoring in pretty much the all-in cost for this product. So it's the product cost itself. We're looking at shipment changes, the incremental. If we're putting that into the bag, are we then going up a size? Does that to a different tier?

We're looking at if we have to actually do picking at the fulfillment side, et cetera, et cetera. Really just baking in the full cost of things. And the test that we ran was, all right, you've got a mystery gift or a mystery gift with $25 value, and we hiked that up a little bit more. Hilariously, we saw completely no difference whatsoever between Mr. Gift and that type of stuff. But at the same time, customers are only reading maybe 20% of what they even see.All the stuff in the marketing team is pouring their heart and soul into writing.And you're like, We really hope that they latch on to this. We really hope that they can see that. It is a challenge, but it's a fun one. Okay, fun.We've talked so much about the different tools, a lot on experience engine. You guys have Klaviyo quick actions going. You're using a retention engine with the cancelation flows. And Is there anything else that we didn't hit on that you guys are using from tools? Let's see.I would say probably certain customization aspects actually for the portal itself. You guys have the ability to go in and add a custom banner at the very top of the portal itself, and that we've definitely done some testing with.You guys, actually, now that I'm thinking about the portal, because I just logged in to it this weekend, you guys do something different with the banner than a lot of other people. I think that when I walk, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's multiple, but when When I jumped into the first day portal, it was almost welcomed me as I was a VIP and maybe gave some... It was like, this is your special... It gave some type of, not membership benefits, it's not the right word, but it did something like that instead of pushing another product at me, which I was like, Oh, this is my special exclusive portal place. Any conscious decision around what to put on the banner? Did you test anything there?Yeah. It was definitely very conscious, and this was dreamed up by our Ecomm manager who did an amazing job with it. Essentially, we were thinking of, All right, when people have actually gone into the portal, I mentioned this before, they often have the intention. In an ideal world, they're like, Oh, I'll change my day or I'll swap a product or something like that. Chances are they're there to cut you loose, they're there to cancel. And so we're like, all right, how can we actually target that? And we did way back and forth between focusing on retention efforts Versus a cross-sell effort. And at the end of the day, we're able to target pretty much not the entire customer base, but the bulk of the customer base of hypothetically why they're coming into the portal. And that is going to make a higher impact than necessarily being able to convince them to cross-sell in that moment when they've already logged in. So that was a lot of our logic there. And we essentially have it established where we're explaining to them the benefits that they already get from their subscription. With this VIP status and the 15% off.We also have a special email address that they can email to get a better customer service experience. And through that, it's really tying into this cognitive bias of loss aversion, right? That they have this benefit already, and they've already gone through the process of understanding that signing up for it, but you don't want to lose it. You don't want to get rid of that benefit that you already have. And yeah, when we tested it, we saw an improvement to, or rather a decrease to the cancelation rates that we had in the portal itself.I love that. I like when tools are used for things outside of what I originally envisioned them for. It just was not why I requested that. But then I see it and I'm like, But that's why we give it to the people. That is why you put features out and you take customer feedback because I really thought about it as announcing new products and announcing new things. But that's That's such a great use case that I just hadn't thought about before. I love that. There's also, I think, another small touch in your portal that I noticed the other day down at the cancelation button because we give everyone the option to change copy, and it's all no code, where I'm like, Just find subtle tweaks to make that make it a little bit more on brand to you. Almost never anybody ever changes the copy. I'm like, This is such a missed opportunity. There was something on your cancelation button where it was cancel and lose VIP status. I was like, God, that was so good. That takes one second to implement. It was just such a nice touch where I went there and I was like, Oh, well, now I've got this banner that greets me and tells me what a wonderful VIP that I am.Then I scroll all the way to the bottom and now I'm going to lose my status.I And I believe we actually, we tested that separately. So we tested the banner first and we saw success there. And so we're like, all right, the ethos, the learning here is that this resonates with our customers. This is actually something that's interesting to them. So we're like, all right, let's then test if we can change the CTA here. And yeah, saw another lift from that.I love it. All right, so we have covered so much today. We have gone through it all. We wrap up the episode with a chew. So what is a good takeaway for someone. So maybe thinking about somebody who's looking at their subscription program, what would your chew be for the day?I feel like the theme of everything, the true thing to chew on is experiment on things, even if you think. Even if you think that it's obvious, even if you think that the customer is definitely going to take that action, even if you can't even think of other reasons as to why they wouldn't, test it out and see the results and see what type of learning is you can get from it. It's truly always worth it to test and to have that definitive learning and be able to pass that learning on to other parts of your marketing team.So a fail test is still a win. Yes, it is.It truly is.Amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you for coming on today. This is so fun. All right. Awesome.Thank you.If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok, and check out the website, chewonthis.Io.

that type of stuff. But at the same time, customers are only reading maybe 20% of what they even see.

All the stuff in the marketing team is pouring their heart and soul into writing.

And you're like, We really hope that they latch on to this. We really hope that they can see that. It is a challenge, but it's a fun one. Okay, fun.

We've talked so much about the different tools, a lot on experience engine. You guys have Klaviyo quick actions going. You're using a retention engine with the cancelation flows. And Is there anything else that we didn't hit on that you guys are using from tools? Let's see.

I would say probably certain customization aspects actually for the portal itself. You guys have the ability to go in and add a custom banner at the very top of the portal itself, and that we've definitely done some testing with.

You guys, actually, now that I'm thinking about the portal, because I just logged in to it this weekend, you guys do something different with the banner than a lot of other people. I think that when I walk, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's multiple, but when When I jumped into the first day portal, it was almost welcomed me as I was a VIP and maybe gave some... It was like, this is your special... It gave some type of, not membership benefits, it's not the right word, but it did something like that instead of pushing another product at me, which I was like, Oh, this is my special exclusive portal place. Any conscious decision around what to put on the banner? Did you test anything there?

Yeah. It was definitely very conscious, and this was dreamed up by our Ecomm manager who did an amazing job with it. Essentially, we were thinking of, All right, when people have actually gone into the portal, I mentioned this before, they often have the intention. In an ideal world, they're like, Oh, I'll change my day or I'll swap a product or something like that. Chances are they're there to cut you loose, they're there to cancel. And so we're like, all right, how can we actually target that? And we did way back and forth between focusing on retention efforts Versus a cross-sell effort. And at the end of the day, we're able to target pretty much not the entire customer base, but the bulk of the customer base of hypothetically why they're coming into the portal. And that is going to make a higher impact than necessarily being able to convince them to cross-sell in that moment when they've already logged in. So that was a lot of our logic there. And we essentially have it established where we're explaining to them the benefits that they already get from their subscription. With this VIP status and the 15% off.

We also have a special email address that they can email to get a better customer service experience. And through that, it's really tying into this cognitive bias of loss aversion, right? That they have this benefit already, and they've already gone through the process of understanding that signing up for it, but you don't want to lose it. You don't want to get rid of that benefit that you already have. And yeah, when we tested it, we saw an improvement to, or rather a decrease to the cancelation rates that we had in the portal itself.

I love that. I like when tools are used for things outside of what I originally envisioned them for. It just was not why I requested that. But then I see it and I'm like, But that's why we give it to the people. That is why you put features out and you take customer feedback because I really thought about it as announcing new products and announcing new things. But that's That's such a great use case that I just hadn't thought about before. I love that. There's also, I think, another small touch in your portal that I noticed the other day down at the cancelation button because we give everyone the option to change copy, and it's all no code, where I'm like, Just find subtle tweaks to make that make it a little bit more on brand to you. Almost never anybody ever changes the copy. I'm like, This is such a missed opportunity. There was something on your cancelation button where it was cancel and lose VIP status. I was like, God, that was so good. That takes one second to implement. It was just such a nice touch where I went there and I was like, Oh, well, now I've got this banner that greets me and tells me what a wonderful VIP that I am.

Then I scroll all the way to the bottom and now I'm going to lose my status.

I And I believe we actually, we tested that separately. So we tested the banner first and we saw success there. And so we're like, all right, the ethos, the learning here is that this resonates with our customers. This is actually something that's interesting to them. So we're like, all right, let's then test if we can change the CTA here. And yeah, saw another lift from that.

I love it. All right, so we have covered so much today. We have gone through it all. We wrap up the episode with a chew. So what is a good takeaway for someone. So maybe thinking about somebody who's looking at their subscription program, what would your chew be for the day?

I feel like the theme of everything, the true thing to chew on is experiment on things, even if you think. Even if you think that it's obvious, even if you think that the customer is definitely going to take that action, even if you can't even think of other reasons as to why they wouldn't, test it out and see the results and see what type of learning is you can get from it. It's truly always worth it to test and to have that definitive learning and be able to pass that learning on to other parts of your marketing team.

So a fail test is still a win. Yes, it is.

It truly is.

Amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you for coming on today. This is so fun. All right. Awesome.

Thank you.

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